Speakers ~$10K for rock, alternative and some pop. Not Jazz or Classical. - Page 2

I would check them out, and the JBL Array line

+1 on the JBL Project Array 1400s. I have them, and they are the most realistic-sounding speakers I have ever had/heard. I also have the Array 1500 subs with them -- awesome! Perfect for rock music. The horns are WAY smoother than the Klipsch speakers.

I wasn't aware that Klipsch made only one model.
Or are you talking about all Klipsch speaker in this price range? (Palladim P37F, Klipschorns, Jubilee...)

+1 again on the Golden Ear T2. Sandy has a winner.

Klipsch LaScala is another option.

Dynaudio C1's and JL Audio F112 yet another.

+1 again on the Golden Ear T2. Sandy has a winner.

Klipsch LaScala is another option.

Dynaudio C1's and JL Audio F112 yet another.

A Marketing winner maybe......Its just another Def tech spinoff speaker, and its made pretty cheap. I'd consider it a typical full range speaker with a cheap build in powered "sub" in a consumer field loaded with them.

Something tells me that besides great sound, the OP wants great build quality/elegance too......not all "high end" or great sounding speakers are built with nice materials and play the part in terms of aesthetics.

I look at it this way....if your going to spend the amount of money that you can get a nice used car for, or a new subcompact car for that matter, I would hope it has some nice touches in the build dept. too. Like real wood accents, or veneer, high quality terminals, drivers(like ones that are ROUND )etc. be used.

Jim......My opinion, go invest a few hundred bucks in a Dayton Omnimic, think about picking up something like a Behringer DCX2496 or similiar and play around with your XQ speakers in active mode, learn to really tune them to the room where you can get a better understanding of your own rooms accoustics, your own ears preference(ability to set independantly levels for the left and right tweeter/midrange/woofer assemblies seperately, along with accurately EQing them and time aligning the drivers independantly as well) and before you dump that kind of cash, and see just how much more your XQ's are capable of, I would almost garentee you a completely new experience with what you currently have in a positive manner giving you a whole new light on the meaning "high end" sound. You can spend a few hundred bucks and have your current speakers sound significantly better than anything thats been listed as recommendations regardless of source,DAC, amplification, etc listed.

I wouldn't take Stereophile's recommendations to heart; just look at their highly rated speakers, then look at the measurements. Big magazines can be swayed by marketing dollars, and what do you think happens if that magazine gives a poor review of a manufacturer feeding them marking $$$? The measurements are the only thing you should be paying attention to as far as the magazines are concerned.

A speaker that is more forgiving of recordings is usually a highly flawed speaker. You need to decide if you want a flawed speaker or one that portrays the recording accurately. Which you choose should only be decided by you, as you might like a speaker with flaws for various reasons. If you want accuracy, though, use the measurements to help tell the story, especially if you cannot listen to the speaker. A flawed speaker may sound okay with poorer recordings, but it's not going to compare to an accurate speaker when playing good recordings.

If I were in the market for megabuck speakers, I'd probably buy a pair of Infinity p363s and compare them to whatever speakers were in the hunt. I think it would be an enlightening comparison.

Yep Stereophile and all those other magazine reviews are nothing more than paid advertisements. The mfg's PAY for those reviews.....there is ALOT of politics that go on behind the scenes in the AV industry.

Which is why I highly recommend getting a good PRO AUDIO processor/speaker management unit......like the one mentioned by Behringer, or from other companies like DBX, or Rane, QSC etc........the REAL HIGH END equipment is in the Pro Audio field in many respects. A nice properly implemented speaker managment processor will do worlds more for your speaker choice, room accoustics and listening tastes over any supposedly high end DAC, redbook player, cabling, fancy Class A biased amp etc.........which is why I think you should do some experimenting and research with your own equipment to start for a much smaller and easy on the wallet investment. Grab yourself a good speaker management processor, a few cheap(cheap in terms of dollars) monoblocks and run your current XQ speakers fully active and see what they are really capable of.

I agree with checking out the SoundScapes though I have sealed M7 version with a 18" LMS sub. They are amongst the best speakers I have heard. Perfect midrange and tweeters. The RAAL tweet & Accuton mid are the perfect combination. They are fantastic on all material...

I also have the Paradigm Sig S8's as well.... These are also excellent, though they shine better on some material then other and can handle much more power and have more output then the Salks even when crossed over to subs - which IMO is the best way to handle bass, you will not be restricted by placement of the towers...

Id have to say if going with the Accuton mid/RAAL tweeter combo, the OP could do better than the Soundscapes for nearly a grand less by going with the 7R's from Clearwave. CLassic 2 way design, especially in the critical midrange region, less xover components etc. And they give you the option as well of a dual bamboo ply/1" thick hardwood veneer option......no MDF at all. Built like a tank, all sides 2" thick including front baffle the cabinets do not resonate at all. They also give you the option of 2 sets of direct out input terminals if you want to run fully active, which is a nice touch for those who don't want passive xover's inline. I had a chance to hear these in NY last weekend. With a nice sub, these are impressive in sound and especially build quality. I could actually see someone forking over $3-4k for a pair of these monitors. I liked them alot................though I still don't think the RAAL tweeter is the be all/end all for HF reproduction as some would give you the impression, but I do think the Accuton midrange driver is fantastic un EQ'd, very flat, very accurate, very revealing.

They look nicely built, Raal with 7" Accutron woofer, but the SS M7 is only a few hundred more and is a 3-way. May be more money in the cabinets vs more in the drivers with the Salk.

I consider more drivers to be a detractor. Means more passive xover parts in the signal path. Also means dispersion pattern will be less uniform.

Not saying the M7 isnt a great sounding speaker, Im sure it is, but I'm a minimalist, prefers less or no xover parts and as few drivers as possible to cover the bulk of the frequency spectrum.

The 7R's were the first monitors in a long time to make me have to think hard about plunking down cash and were very close in SQ to my modded/active driven XQ20's. From me, thats high praise, they were fantastic sounding stock with no signal processing. A pair of those and a quality pair of subs would be a first class sounding setup.

I also have the P362 in my living room. They sound great when compared to the B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Krell, Martin Logan, Klipsch, NHT speakers speakers I've heard at 90dB or less.

But the P362 don't sound great when compared to the Philharmonic 3, KEF Reference, Revel Ultima, Orion, RBH T2, DefTech BP7001SC & BP7000SC.

Still, if you want a nicely built 2-way, the Vapor Cirrus is an option and is a bit less money. Raal, AT 7" Woofer.
Anyway, this thread is about 10k speakers, so we're getting off topic.

I don't.

They also have one of the best crossover designers on the planet behind them.

I think with the kind of music you like you need to audition anything from Salk line before buying. While they are great speakers I would get your favorite CDs and have a listen before you pull the plug. Talk to Jim Salk and he will find some1 in your area that can demo his speakers, they all share the same voicing...

Train, I was suggesting the GE T2 since I have listened to them at CES and CEDIA and yes think there would be some crossover with DefTech sine Sandy Gross was one of the founders? What is a speaker management system you refer too? I too love pro gear. In thevpast I have used QSC and Face Audio amps and loved them.

TechGuy, good catch on the RBH T2. I use own to own a pair about 6-7 yrs ago.

Far too often certain brands of speakers are recommended without taking into account the types of music or environment they will go in. So I think it's good that his musical intentions are posted.

Alot more in common with Deftech than you could know. The entire speaker, components etc are built in the same Chinese factories. Regardless of how some think they sound, they are just built dirt cheap with really cheap materials and components, just like Deftech.

As for Pro Audio gear......at the budget end you have something like the Behringer DCX2496, which allows you to do 3 configurable inputs in/to a total of 6 configurable outputs(So left, right and sub channels input into for example L&R highs, midrange, and L&R sub out), along with time delay for each output, and independent parametric EQing for each output and fully adjustable xovers for each output(any slope you can imaging from 6-48db and any frequency range, high,band,low pass).

This is an inexpensive piece that alot of people love to pick up start with.....its also the stock unit that comes with Emerald Physics active speakers. Its also popular with the modders too.

Then there are more expensive units like Rane's AC23s/DEQ60L combo, basically a seperate Xover/EQ arrangement.

Or the DBX Driverack 260, 4800, 4820........just good examples to start you off on, all differing in features and budget.

Its quite on topic, I assume the OP knows that spending $10k does not garentee better SQ or even build quality for that matter. Ive seen $1k speakers built as well if not better than $5-10k counterparts......price doesnt garentee you anything in the AV field. Its an illusion as to what your really getting.

Too many comapnines in this hobby always base marketing "performance" to price, many times in connection with paid forms of advertisements and "awards"(Yeah "awards" are based on marketing $$$ too. And you won't see speakers without paid advertising dollars getting any awards for their real SQ ability ).

For example those "Golden Ear" speakers love using marketing jargon to state how you don't have to spend $10k or even $5k to get great high end sound. Well, they are right in that respect, but they use it to help them maneuver and sell people on the fact that their rediculous $2500 pricetag is justified, when in fact those speakers themselves in reality are really cheaply built and would still be a big profitmaker well under $1k. Hell, plenty of speakers better built and better sounding than those even at half or less of the pricepoint of their retail.

You think so? I don't feel that way at all. In general, people just recommend what they own, no matter what the circumstances. I think there has been a good discussion here (with the OP himself) about the quality of music and what a flawed and well designed speaker will do with various recordings. The best thing to do is buy an accurate speaker, then treat the room and finally use other various components and techniques (perhaps EQ) to tweak the sound to your liking. You can fix a flaw in the room, and you can even attempt to fix a flawed recording using software, but you cannot fix a flawed speaker. jima4a should really put in the research and listening time (if possible), as dropping 10K on speakers is a big deal in my opinion. There are a bunch of well respected brands that design "accurate," well measuring speakers, but in the end they need to sound good first and foremost, especially with Rock music in this case. Some great brands are:

Dynaudio
Revel
Linkwitz Orion
Evolution Acoustics
Acoustic Zen
Salk
Focal
Kef
Seaton Sound

Your contradicting yourself. Your stating that you cannot fix a "flawed" speaker, yet you talk about using "techniques" to tweak the sound.

Maybe you should define what a flawed speaker is? Is it a product that has some natural frequency bumps and dips in its in room response curve? Is it one built of specific materials? I think you need to define the term flawed speaker...............because that would mean if a speaker is not flawed, then it must be perfect?

And if you can fix a flaw in the room, why exactly can't you fix a flaw in the speaker per definition?

I am not contradicting myself; you're simply not comprehending what I stated. If you do not understand how you can change the sound using various components and EQ, or what a flawed speaker is based on measurements, perhaps you should read up on speaker design and room acoustics, and study terms such as frequency response (on and off-axis), polar response, sound power, decay, resonance, etc. I highly recommend Floyd Toole's new book.
http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reproduc...6570503&sr=8-1

Knowing your reputation here on the forums, I won't be giving you anymore time unless it relates directly to the OP's thread. You've taken way too many threads off track already, usually with unbacked claims, personal attacks and intentional argumentative posts. Please stay on topic.

LOL! In other words your just avoiding the question.

So again, give me specific examples of a flawed speaker. You state you cannot "fix" a flawed speaker. Why not? If you can "fix" a room which is by definition technically a part of the accoustic environment, then why can't you fix a speaker as well per se?

Again your contradicting yourself by stating you can change sound via various components like an EQ......isn't that such a component that can also "fix" a speaker?

Speaker "measurements" are very easy to alter through "techniques and components"(which states your just contradicting yourself afterall). But again though, maybe you should give some examples to us all on what specifically a flawed speaker is. Because if a speaker is without flaw, then your are saying it is perfect to begin with. The definition of perfect is "without flaw".

Personal attacks, Ive never made, but debate and question what is stated, yes I have. You made the comment above, so I am questioning your reasoning and asking for an answer. If you can't answer it with ease without getting your feathers ruffled, then maybe you should go back and edit/delete what you stated. Your making a claim.......so "back it up" please, and don't be hypocritical about it.


Ill make it simple, give me an example of a good fundamental speaker that has some percieved audible "flaws", and Ill state how it can be "fixed".

Just as an example, how about a speaker with poor off-axis response, how do you fix that?

Very good example.......but Ill ask a few questions before answering: Is the entire frequency range off axis poor and uneven or non existant? Or just specific frequency beaming? Does the off axis response even matter if the speaker sounds great at the listening positions? Some speakers by design have poor off axis response(Take Magnepan's for example). So again your asking a bit of a loaded question that needs a bit more clarification.

The speaker has poor off axis response, you want it to be fixed, but how specifically is the poor off axis response affecting your listening enjoyment and the feedback from the speakers specifically? Poor off axis response does not necessarily mean a flaw, especially if the speaker was designed in a specific fashion knowing off axis response would be poor.

Train, that is what I thought an active crossover/eq with some DSP. QSC makes a unit to some guys manipulate subs with. Now I also agree with you that eq, Audessey, ARC, Trinnov etc to fix the room it does indeed affect the speakers based on what is fed to them since the speaker is the final link in the chain.

Now not to debate your inside track info at GE or DefTec those Chineese parts still sounded good to me. Many US Brands use Chineese drivers but have not reduced pricing...