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Speakers ~$10K for rock, alternative and some pop. Not Jazz or Classical. - Page 11

post #301 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

If you are interested in Salk or Philharmonic, there is one other idea I thought of.

We know Dennis Murphy is XO man for both. Delmond Won is the talented cabinet maker for Dennis. He can custom build you the exact cabinet style you want and have Dennis do the drivers and XO (like he did for Salk SS8/10/12). Del has built many styles of speaker cabinets. 100% custom the way you want it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21976904


.

This is a very good point. Jim Salk will also build you anything you want. Since the SoundScape 8's are likely never something I'll be able to afford, I may instead request Jim build an open-backed midrange monitor style speaker, but using a more sensitive driver than what's in the SoundScape M7. It's nice having someone that offers that level of customer service.
post #302 of 411
Thread Starter 
My only concern for a one off is I believe for both Soundscapes and the Phils, there was a lot of development work including prototypes to get it right. From what I read the SS8's XO was a serious challange for Dennis if I remember correct. Of course he nailed it though... :-)
post #303 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

My only concern for a one off is I believe for both Soundscapes and the Phils, there was a lot of development work including prototypes to get it right. From what I read the SS8's XO was a serious challange for Dennis if I remember correct. Of course he nailed it though... :-)

Haha - Dennis is "da man."

Jim and Dennis wouldn't sell you a speaker that wasn't up to their standards, which are extremely high standards, by the way. The wait time would probably be quite a bit longer for a one-off, but totally worth it I'd imagine.

Anyway, will you be able to listen to the Kef, Revel, Dynaudio, Focal and Thiel speakers? Also, where do you live? It's possible there are local Salk owners in your area.
post #304 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

This is a very good point. Jim Salk will also build you anything you want. Since the SoundScape 8's are likely never something I'll be able to afford, I may instead request Jim build an open-backed midrange monitor style speaker, but using a more sensitive driver than what's in the SoundScape M7. It's nice having someone that offers that level of customer service.


We have talked about this.... keep in mind that its the combination of the drivers - not just the bass driver at play here....

You'd have to juggle that stuff around quite a bit to get much more sensitivity out of them... since the RAAL and Accuton will obviously be major players in the game here for you I'll wager....

I'd be curious how all this would balance out.... Not sure it would honestly make alot of sense or difference then 3 powered bass drivers, vs a pair with 2 PR's... Perhaps Dennis or Jim could enlighten us on design choices of that comparison.
post #305 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

My only concern for a one off is I believe for both Soundscapes and the Phils, there was a lot of development work including prototypes to get it right. From what I read the SS8's XO was a serious challange for Dennis if I remember correct. Of course he nailed it though... :-)

I think we can understand the concern. It would be much easier to just buy the SS8 (or another speaker) that's already been made, measured, tested.

Is the Pioneer EX-1 on your list?

http://audiovideologic.com/pioneer_exspeakers.php
post #306 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

We have talked about this.... keep in mind that its the combination of the drivers - not just the bass driver at play here....

You'd have to juggle that stuff around quite a bit to get much more sensitivity out of them... since the RAAL and Accuton will obviously be major players in the game here for you I'll wager....

I'd be curious how all this would balance out.... Not sure it would honestly make alot of sense or difference then 3 powered bass drivers, vs a pair with 2 PR's... Perhaps Dennis or Jim could enlighten us on design choices of that comparison.

Yes - you're right. Two drivers in parallel would be what I'd prefer, but that would be a large monitor style speaker. I should just start saving for the SS8's and see where I am in a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I think we can understand the concern. It would be much easier to just buy the SS8 (or another speaker) that's already been made, measured, tested.

You're probably right.
post #307 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post


I think we can understand the concern. It would be much easier to just buy the SS8 (or another speaker) that's already been made, measured, tested.

Is the Pioneer EX-1 on your list?

http://audiovideologic.com/pioneer_exspeakers.php

I had not got to the EX-1 yet, so it still might.
post #308 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

This is a very good point. Jim Salk will also build you anything you want. Since the SoundScape 8's are likely never something I'll be able to afford, I may instead request Jim build an open-backed midrange monitor style speaker, but using a more sensitive driver than what's in the SoundScape M7. It's nice having someone that offers that level of customer service.

That sounds good, maybe he can build 5 (2 for you, 3 for me).
post #309 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by saeyedoc View Post

That sounds good, maybe he can build 5 (2 for you, 3 for me).

Better make that 6, as I'd want a matching center channel.
post #310 of 411
post #311 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Better make that 6, as I'd want a matching center channel.

Exactly
post #312 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Max, Thanks for that elaboration. I am copied a post below from the UK "AV Forum" by Dav1dF on the Kef R Series Thread Part 2
............................................................ ..........................................
"I spent a bit of time this morning listening to this new speaker.

The LS50 isn't part of any range, it's a one off product. Basically, KEF have said to their engineers to approach a new build speaker from a studio point of view rather than hi-fi, so the presentation is a little different from something like the R100's (it's closest relative to look at). The R series has a lot in common with the Blade, but not quite as much as the LS50 does....

Whilst the R100 cabinet is very good, the cabinet for the LS50 has pretty much been 'overdone'. There's more bracing, and KEF have utilised their 'constrained layer damping' to heavily reduce cabinet colourations and resonances, and have even redesigned the port to help in this respect too. The front panel is effectively double layered for extra rigidity. If you 'knock' on the cabinet as you would a door, it's solid. If you've ever done that to the Reference range, you'll know what I mean.

The front panel is shaped more like the Blade in that over the full 360 degrees around the driver, the cabinet curves back, which fully minimises reflections from what would normally be a flat front panel (on most speakers).

The sound from these is different to a normal hi-fi speaker. Speakers that studios master music on tend to be more neutral than hi-fi speakers, so you can hear more of what's going on in the mix. If you like detail, the LS50 will be preferable against the R100, and even the R300. If you like a bit of warmth and fullness to your bass, the LS50's won't be for you....
Frank Harvey Hi-Fi and www.hifix.co.uk US"
............................................................ ..........................................

Thanks to you, David, and I believe Donutfan from a different posting, I think I am starting to get my head around this a bit more. I am not looking for a flawed speaker that emphasizes or de-emphasizes a certain frequency, but because of a past experience with the 801, I am wary of an ultra clinical speaker. I now believe I don't have to worry about that with the bulk of the speakers on the current list. And yes, some of my music will need to be listened to on the Ipod or Boom Box to enjoy, as I sometime have to do today.

I was reading the same post a couple days ago. Interesting stuff, so basically KEF admins that there are 2 approaches to design speakers (and they can do both).
1. pure, flat, max on details, forward
2. relaxed, easy on ears, more user friendly
and apparently you have to pick which one you want more. That just again brings me to think that you really need 2 separate systems if you listen to wide variety of music. But than again if you all about acoustic, classic, voice and mellow stuff option 1 should be all you need. And if you only like rockcy-popcy stuff all you need is option 2.
I wonder what how good would the sales be on the LS50, because it looks like they are stepping in the ID speaker world.

From that post at whathifi some1 claimed that
http://www.whathifi.com/review/spendor-sp100r2
can do both (but again, who know if it's true):
"The SP100R2 manages to sound fluid, informative and entertaining without edginess, even with poor recordings. There's enough transparency to expose ropey material, but the Spendors still manage detail with an unusual amount of politeness."
right in your price range, would be interesting to see if you can audition those...
post #313 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

Here is the list that I tried to glean from the Thread plus some suggested outside. Many are above budget and only a few are under. I eliminated the monitors on the ones I looked at. There are quite a few that I have not had a chance to look at yet, just thought I post the list.

Aerial Acoustics Model 7Ts
B&W 803D
Danley Synergy horns
Dynaudio Confidence C2
Dynaudio Sapphires
Focal Electra 1028 Be
Focal Electra 1038 Be
JBL Synthesis 1400 Array
Kef 205/2
Kef 207/2
Klipsch P-37F
Klipsch LaScala
Legacy Focus SE
Paradigm Signature 8
Pioneer S-1EX
Reference 3A Grand Veena
Revel Salon 2
Revel Studio 2
Salk Soundscape 8
Thiel CS2.4
Thiel CS3.7

If you are anywhere near Southern CA, The Home Entertainment Show is next month in Newport Beach. You could knock out a significant portion of your list there, and then some.
post #314 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post


If you are anywhere near Southern CA, The Home Entertainment Show is next month in Newport Beach. You could knock out a significant portion of your list there, and then some.

Some say we live in LA (lower Alabama). But I am in Florida, other side of the country.
post #315 of 411
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yveletnik View Post

From that post at whathifi some1 claimed that
http://www.whathifi.com/review/spendor-sp100r2
can do both (but again, who know if it's true):
"The SP100R2 manages to sound fluid, informative and entertaining without edginess, even with poor recordings. There's enough transparency to expose ropey material, but the Spendors still manage detail with an unusual amount of politeness."
right in your price range, would be interesting to see if you can audition those...

When I first looked at them I saw stand mount and then thought no, then saw 12" woofer and decided they deserve a look. Thanks for bringing these up!
post #316 of 411
Spendor is another "traditional" speaker manufacturer:

"Classic" series

And don't forget about Tannoy:

Residential series

For many years British speakers have had the warm-n-polite reputation along with great detail reproduction, including KEF.......
post #317 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post


Some say we live in LA (lower Alabama). But I am in Florida, other side of the country.

I'm heading to Apalachicola (sp?) this fall to see my uncle, I hope. I WILL be dropping in to hear your new speakers!
post #318 of 411
Thread Starter 
Nethawk, For sure that would be great. :-) I would certainly hope that I have them by then.
post #319 of 411
Jima4a,

Donut had two great suggestions in Spendor and Tannoy. I have the Tannoy Definition Instal DC12s in my HT.
post #320 of 411
Thread Starter 
Thought I give an update. Have not had as much time for this as I'd hoped. Here is the list as it stands today. Hopefully timing for purchase is in the 2nd half of the year. If the speakers need to sit in my current room, these are what are left so far. If I can work a bigger room, the list expands by several (adds rear ports e.g. Aerial and Focal, larger footprints e.g. 207/2,). Looks is still in the eye of the beholder so some stay gone although I'm sure they may sound great.

B&W 803D Still interests me but more of a long shot

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Note: Not sure of the design but strong following so if opportunity exists to audition, I would for sure.

Kef 205/2

Paradigm Signature 8 Note: Concerned about low volume capabilities if similar to Studio 100s

Reference 3A Grand Veena

Revel Studio 2

Salk Soundscape 8

Thiel CS3.7 Note: Borderline too big

The Revels are definitely at the top (but outside budget ) followed by Salk (under budget ) then Kef (the 105/3s impressed me in a very short audition years ago and I have owned Kefs for years so they stay until beat out in an audition).
post #321 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

The Revels are definitely at the top (but outside budget ) followed by Salk (under budget ) then Kef (the 105/3s impressed me in a very short audition years ago and I have owned Kefs for years so they stay until beat out in an audition).

I hate to sound like a broken-record but (if it's possible) you really should have a listen to the Focal 1038's before plunking down cash for the Studio2's. Not only do they look better (imho), they sound just as good if not better. The Revels were at the top of my list, too. I could afford them yet once I heard the 1038Be's I saw no reason. IMO, the Focals tweeter integrates a little better, while the Revels had a slight advantage in terms of bass output (output, not quality). Being that I will be addings sub(s) anyway, I went with 1038Be's and pocketed the difference (~$4.5k). I have no regrets. Are they out of your price range? They are ~$12.5k MSRP.

The 1038's are bottom ported like the Studio2's as-well, which allows for a little more placement flexibility than rear-ported designs.

Check out this in-room response measurement of 1038Be's:



Basically a flat line to 20kHz.

All that said, you have a mighty fine list going there. Can't imagine being disappointed with any of them, although I was disappointed by the S8s personally when I auditioned.

Keep us posted, very interested in your thoughts throughout the audition process and your final decision.
post #322 of 411
Thread Starter 
AuralXTC, thanks for educating me on the porting. I could not see ports on the front and thought it must be rear, my bad. Now I was able to find a cabinet build drawing and see the bottom port. They are back on the list for sure. I liked the looks, the number and size of woofers and the dimensions, so now I want to hear them. Thanks!
post #323 of 411
Sorry if it's been mentioned, I did a quick search...

Sonus Faber Liuto.

Google some reviews, there's a couple and your genres of music are given as a good match to them!! Might be worth a demo if you're able.
post #324 of 411
I'm listening to my Philharmonic3 this weekend. Wow. I think they sound better than the B&W 800D, Focal 1028Be, and Paradigm S8. For $3K, unbelievable speakers IMHO.

Not better than Revel Studio2 or KEF 205/2, but perhaps just as great. I'm thinking the Soundscape 8 will also sound just as great.
post #325 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I'm listening to my Philharmonic3 this weekend. Wow. I think they sound better than the B&W 800D, Focal 1028Be, and Paradigm S8. For $3K, unbelievable speakers IMHO.

Not better than Revel Studio2 or KEF 205/2, but perhaps just as great. I'm thinking the Soundscape 8 will also sound just as great.

What he said, in regards to everything. Superb speakers!
post #326 of 411
Well Jim, I listen to much of the same music that you do, and I haven't seen them mentioned, but I love my Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers, and they're below your $10K price point.
post #327 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuralXTC View Post

Check out this in-room response measurement of 1038Be's:


Now that is a remarkable feat on engineering. Smoother in room response below the Schroeder frequency than above!
Wow. Unbelievably good.

Should be clear to Jim by now, ask 50 audiophiles, get 50 opinions (ask one manufacturer, get one opinion ).
Listen to as many as you can for yourself.
Btw, drove through Pensacola on my way back from Dallas last month. I know exactly what you mean.

cheers,

AJ
post #328 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post

Now that is a remarkable feat on engineering. Smoother in room response below the Schroeder frequency than above!
Wow. Unbelievably good.

My graphs look much better than even that........on Photoshop.

I just don't know about the accuracy of some of these home measuring equipments/software.

Nuance measured a defective Phil2 (1 speaker was defective) not too long ago, and the graphs still looked great!

However, subjective listening was able to determine that one of the Phil2 speakers was defective!

So I have no faith in some of these measuring equipments/software.
post #329 of 411
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post


My graphs look much better than even that........on Photoshop.

I just don't know about the accuracy of some of these home measuring equipments/software.

Nuance measured a defective Phil2 (1 speaker was defective) not too long ago, and the graphs still looked great!

However, subjective listening was able to determine that one of the Phil2 speakers was defective!

So I have no faith in some of these measuring equipments/software.

Says the guy who refuses to measure his room and likely doesn't know how.

As for the Phils, that's because there wasn't a defect with it at that time chief. Get your facts straight. Had the midrange driver been not outputting any sound, even a radio shack meter would have measured it. There is actually no explanation that Dennis and I could come up with other than the driver would short at times during listening sessions, which didnt happen during the measurements. The equipment was fine slick.
post #330 of 411
Getting like the Hatfields and McCoys up in here.
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