Help! Can I use lens memory for 2.35 with no anamorphic lens?

You are asking about "zooming" vs lens, which can lead to bitter debates among some members. I would hate for "another one of those Vs threads". Here's a thread that should help you with your questions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=zooming

The best way to search the forum is using the advance search, limit search words to one or two. Use the drop down option of title search only and make sure to the appropriate forum is highlighted from the list to the right.

In this case, CIH, screens, DIY screens, DIY CH forums would be where you want to search. Use mask or masking as your search words.

No, you don't need a francy-shmancy anamorphic lens to do 2.35:1. You can get a projector like the Panny that you mentioned, which will simplify life for you, or you can go completely ghetto and just get a projector with a wide zoom/shift range and do it by hand. My Epson 8350 falls into that latter category, and it can be found for under $1200. Personally, I think the effort involved in zooming/shifting isn't worth worrying about. IMO, in a typical evening, I might optimize the zoom for a 16:9 window inside the 2.35:1 screen so as to watch some TV, then spend two minutes re-zooming it to watch a 2.35:1 movie. Big deal.

No you certainly do not have to have an A-lens. Here are the options for a 2.35 CIH set up in order of increasing cost:

1. Manual zoom and electronic vertical shift. Zero additional cost.
And no big deal. I manually zoomed and shifted my Panny 700 for 7 years, and it took less than 30 seconds. Of course you have to be able to reach the projector, so you need to shelf mount.

2. Projector with lens memory for instant remote zooming, vertical positioning, and focussing. The Panny AE4000 and AE7000 are the lowest cost of the very few projectors that have this capability. Projector will be in the range of 2-3k. The lens memory feature works incredibly well, with auto aspect ratio switching taking less than 10 seconds, and the projector can now be up on the ceiling if that is your wish.

3. Use an Anamorphic lens. This is regarded by some as the ultimate solution, although as the Moderator has stated, the whole benefits of zooming versus A-lens issue is very controversial. What is not controversial is that the A-lens solution can be very expensive, with the lens perhaps costing much more than your new projector. And there may be additional significant costs such as the need for a sled and even a curved screen. Certainly the top tier home theaters (the ones in the home theater magazines) always seem to use an A-lens.

There is also the option of using a projector with motorized zoom / shift / focus, but no memory - so it can still be ceiling mounted, but manually adjusted between aspect ratios. This is the setup I use with a JVC RS-20.

The "zoom method" can be easily used with the Panasonic projectors by presetting the zoom and focus settings then saving them in what the projector calls lens memory. It is very effective and the Panasonics are very good about restoring the zoom and focus when recalled from memory.

However: be aware that in order for the zoom method to work the lens of the projector must be within the vertical bounds of the screen itself. In other words, if you ceiling mount your projector the lens must be no higher than the top of the screen. Wherever you place the projector it must be no higher than the top of the screen and no lower than the bottom of the screen. If your projector is too high (or too low) then when you zoom the image it will move off the screen and can't be shifted back on to the screen. The Panasonics have an image shift control both horizontal and vertical, but it is manual and not controlled by lens memory.

Another alternative to achieving CIH without an A-lens is to use a good video processor like a Lumagen to resize the image for ratios taller than 2.35:1. This is what I have ended up with. Yes I know I have sacrificed vertical lines of resolution, but the Lumagen does such a superb job of resizing that it result still looks great.

If you are thinking of buying a Panasonic for this, and the projector is mounted higher than the top of the screen then automatic zooming will not work! See my previous post.

Agreed on the Lumagen scaling doing a great job with the shrink method. Even though my RS55 has lens memory I still often shrink with my Lumagen. I've found zooming only makes a significant difference on stellar transfers like say a Pixar film.

BTW, the Panny projectors have a version of the shrink method built in (I assume the 7000 still has it) called 16:9s. Could be an option if a high ceiling mount is required. Even if properly set up for lens memory, I'd still recommend using 16:9s for menus, trailers etc for quick AR changes and saving wear on the motors.

The Mits 7800d also has the zooming feature. It is also a DLP projector, I've seen it in person (zoomed in on a 2.35 screen) and it's a very nice picture!

Yes, 16:9s. That's what I used before I got my Lumagen. I considered lowering my projector but that would have put it within "head height" of the back row.

Part of this blog post explains the challenges I had and my thoughts on using a video processor to overcome them. It was written before I purchased the Lumagen:

http://wnl256.blogspot.com/2011/10/t...it-better.html

Actually it does work, you just have to tilt the projector and use the vertical manual adjusment to compensate.

Yes I think that will work within certain limits (haven't tried). Beyond that you would have to use a keystone adjustment, which introduces its own issues.

I have a question about the Panasonic PT-AR100U. One of the features it advertises is "Screen Area Memory". I would like to do CIH and ceiling mount the projector. Will I need a step ladder to switch between 2:35 and 16:9 with the PT-AR100U, or will this screen area memory do the trick?

Manning99

The Sony 95ES projector have an motorized image shift control both horizontal and vertical ( + focus and zoom ), and IS controlled by the lens memory ( 5 presets ), so you can adjust to different aspect ratio´s ( etc. like : 1.33:1, 1.78:1, 1.85:1, 2.35:1 , 2.40:1 ) with only a few press off a buttom
very nice.

dj

Hi manning99,

Actually neither of those projectors is anywhere near capable of driving a screen that size. If you want movie theater brightness at 12 fTL., which is what you need at a minimum you should be looking at a high brightness DLP projector preferably a 3-chip.

Just a heads up....Kevin won't brag on himself, but he's one of the TOP industry guys on ISF calibration. He knows a thing or two about projectors.

http://www.imagingscience.com/personnel.php

I had the benefit of his calibration services (years ago) on a tour through the midwest (Kansas City)...he does a terrific job.

I really like my panny ae4000 for zooming with memory. While not much time till recently to play with my setup, I just learned about the auto masking also. It sets the shutter to completely cut off light bleed so no need for masking either. We use a 115" 235 screen.

Can you zoom out your current PJ and simulate a larger 2.35:1 screen? I've done this to test things out with my current 16:9 45x80" screen. I put on a 2.35:1 movie and zoom it out so that there are no more black bars - the height fills the screen and the width overspills onto the wall. Then, focus on the screen and see if it seems bright enough.

Kevin may not see your questions...if you want to contact someone specifically, you should use the PM system.

Hi Manning99,

All I am saying is based on my extensive experience with the JVC projectors your screen size is much too large to achieve the minimum of 12 fTL. The environment your projector is in and the color of the walls will also affect perceived contrast ratio and brightness. If you are in a black hole it might be O.K. The Sony SXRD projectors are also not capable of being very bright. I am getting the impression you must be viewing all of these projectors in their brightest picture mode and uncalibrated.

For example, if you put the Sony in Cinema Mode and find the gamma curve closest to 2.3 to 2.4 for a totally dark and light controlled environment, and calibrate it properly you will be lucky to get 12 fTL. on a 100" diagonal screen with a gain of 1.3. Hope this helps.

Here's a question for you.

If an anamorphic lens was in your budget, would you jump on one?

It isn't really an option for me now that I've made my LR my theater room. The Epson 8350 is already awful big. Otherwise, I don't know. If I had money to burn? Maybe. To be honest I never gave it serious thought due to cost.