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Panasonic VT50 Self Vs. Pro Calibration - Page 2

post #31 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monitorman View Post

The Use of an HDTV signal generator is the only way to test your system if you are running video through an AVR for example. A generator will tell you if your video signal is being adversely effected by the AVR. I find they often clip white, clip black, and sometimes destroy gamma and truncate resolution. In any event you should also put test patterns from a test Blu-ray disc up to see what the Blu-ray player is doing also. For example the latest Pioneer (I forget the model #) clips white and black at the factory settings.

With all due respect to SpectraCal I have not yet been able to get satisfactory results from any of the Auto Calibration features with either the VT30 Pannys or the JVC projectors. Even if they do make it work it is only Auto for grayscale. You will still have to adjust the CMS, gamma, and black and white levels manually.

not really; a reference BD player will do the same thing
post #32 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monitorman View Post

The Use of an HDTV signal generator is the only way to test your system if you are running video through an AVR for example. A generator will tell you if your video signal is being adversely effected by the AVR. I find they often clip white, clip black, and sometimes destroy gamma and truncate resolution. In any event you should also put test patterns from a test Blu-ray disc up to see what the Blu-ray player is doing also. For example the latest Pioneer (I forget the model #) clips white and black at the factory settings.

With all due respect to SpectraCal I have not yet been able to get satisfactory results from any of the Auto Calibration features with either the VT30 Pannys or the JVC projectors. Even if they do make it work it is only Auto for grayscale. You will still have to adjust the CMS, gamma, and black and white levels manually.

I get your point about needing to check your sources after calibrating the TV. I think a video generator is overkill. Blu ray can be tested with the free AVSHD disc, and trying to calibrate the tv signal is a fools errand, imo.

I agree, that autocal does not provide perfect results. From what I've seen on other people's system, it's a good way to get close, and then requires manual tweeking.
post #33 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Heard back from Panasonic and it looks like one of the commands we are using has changed a bit with the latest firmware update, so we will need to update CalMAN. Chris G is testing the changes today.

Are the changes now included with calman 4.6.2?
If not where would I look ?

btw, big differences going from 3.7 to 4.6.2 using my I1pro.

ss
post #34 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Are the changes now included with calman 4.6.2?
If not where would I look ?

btw, big differences going from 3.7 to 4.6.2 using my I1pro.

ss

I believe the latest update to 4.6.3 now has the correct commands for the latest firmware version of the VT50.

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-v4-release-notes
post #35 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

I believe the latest update to 4.6.3 now has the correct commands for the latest firmware version of the VT50.

http://store.spectracal.com/calman-v4-release-notes

I started to do a ISF calibration on my 65VT50 last night, wasn't pleased with with what I was seeing so I blow out calman and DL the latest version.
Anyway ran a full ISF calibration, flat lined the grayscale, got primary's and secondary's under control along with 2.2 gamma, and of-course didn't touch green. Haven't viewed anything so I will see tonight how it all came out.


ss
post #36 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I started to do a ISF calibration on my 65VT50 last night, wasn't pleased with with what I was seeing so I blow out calman and DL the latest version.
Anyway ran a full ISF calibration, flat lined the grayscale, got primary's and secondary's under control along with 2.2 gamma, and of-course didn't touch green. Haven't viewed anything so I will see tonight how it all came out.


ss

Looking forward to hearing of your results with the VT50. I am an amateur DIY calibrator with a i1 Display Pro and Calman DIY who's done only a single TV (a Samsung UND8000) and while I got pretty good results with that TV (see my sig link), I'm intimidated by the VT50 due to its quirks and bugs. So far, between the VE shootout and these forums, I've identified the following quirks:
  • CMS Controls are broken - WORKAROUND: they're relatively close as-is, and can be lowered with the generic "color" control.
  • 10pt WB adjustment doesn't affect 1/2 points as it should - WORKAROUND: unknown??

Anyone know of any others?

Other than that, I have the following questions:
  1. I'm wondering how I unlock the ISF modes with the Calman DIY software- do I need a special license for this?
  2. Also, what about controlling the TV from Calman DIY? Do I need an additional license for this? I don't care about Auto-Cal... just thought it would be nice to drive the display's controls from the laptop. The Calman site is unclear (IMO) about what licenses you need for what.
  3. I'm not doing break-in slides- since I have my own equipment I figured I'd calibrate up front, and re-calibrate in a couple months. Anything wrong with this?

Sorry, that's a lot of questions. Thanks in advance guys.
post #37 of 199
@Tempest
I'm not sure about CalMan and the ISF modes but you can get ControlCal for $50 and use it with CalMan to calibrate the ISF modes. PM Turbe if you're interested.
post #38 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

@Tempest
I'm not sure about CalMan and the ISF modes but you can get ControlCal for $50 and use it with CalMan to calibrate the ISF modes. PM Turbe if you're interested.

CalMAN already gets into the ISF modes, no need for anything else.
post #39 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

CalMAN already gets into the ISF modes, no need for anything else.

Thanks for the info.
post #40 of 199
Is there any reason to get the auto calibrate on Calman? Can it access menus that a normal user can't or can it get around the various settings issues that people have mentioned? If all it does is save me 30 min by adjusting the same values I already can with the remote and getting the same results, I am not sure its worth an extra $100
post #41 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by serpentara View Post

Is there any reason to get the auto calibrate on Calman? Can it access menus that a normal user can't or can it get around the various settings issues that people have mentioned? If all it does is save me 30 min by adjusting the same values I already can with the remote and getting the same results, I am not sure its worth an extra $100

With the Panasonic US/NA models you can only get into the ISF modes via software over RS-232 port for older models and Ethernet for newer ones. ControlCal or CalMAN have access to those modes. With CalMAN you also get AutoCal.
post #42 of 199
So the $435 diy package with the i1 display pro retail already includes autocalibrate? It will be able to get into the isf menus and i don't need the $100 license add on? If that is so, I will buy it next week for sure. (my vt50 arrives Friday)
post #43 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by serpentara View Post

So the $435 diy package with the i1 display pro retail already includes autocalibrate? It will be able to get into the isf menus and i don't need the $100 license add on? If that is so, I will buy it next week for sure. (my vt50 arrives Friday)

I don't think it comes with the AutoCal license, but one of the pros here can verify this. From everything I read though, you're better off calibrating by hand (at least with the VT50).

What I was wondering was if the AutoCal license was required to unlock the ISF modes, and from what Sotti says, I think the answer to that is no.
post #44 of 199
Right. That was essentially my original question as well.
post #45 of 199
Can anyone tell me how to adjust the PANEL brightness (low-mid-high) in the ISF modes? When I'm in Calman (DIY), I can only seem to adjust the settings dictated in the flow (I'm using Standard_DDC), which doesn't seem to cover panel brightness (only regular, Black-Level brightness), and I can't access the settings on the TV when the VT50 is connected to Calman. When I disconnect, I can't get into the "Pro" menu for the ISF modes, which is where the Panel Brightness setting is.

Any ideas?
post #46 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post


Any ideas?

Get ControlCal.
post #47 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Get ControlCal.

But I already paid for a Calman DIY license... is it impossible to get to the Panel Brightness ISF setting without ControlCal?
post #48 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

But I already paid for a Calman DIY license... is it impossible to get to the Panel Brightness ISF setting without ControlCal?

You can see the ControlCal interface here: http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=755

I'm going to assume you would need CalMAN Professional in order to access the Advanced DDC where once again I'm assuming you might be able to access all the Panasonic controls.

It's soooooo much easier with ControlCal. I use it for VT30s and now have VT50 CC as I have a VT50 on the way for personal use. $50 for CC non pro VT50 calibration is, in my opinion, a bargain.
post #49 of 199
How do I connect to a VT50 with Calman?

Is there a menu I need to adjust?

Thanks,

Rich
post #50 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

How do I connect to a VT50 with Calman?

Is there a menu I need to adjust?

Thanks,

Rich

If you use a router, first get your VT50 IP address then all you would do is in the settings menu > display control > drop down list (display) select your TV > press connection method drop down list,select socket > you now will see a place to put the IP address in from your VT50, enter it > go back to your VT50 select custom mode, drop down to pro settings and then press the red button on the VT50 remote for about 4 seconds, then you will see on your screen saying Waiting > now press the connect tab in the display control menu, if things are working right you should now be connect to your VT50.
I am guessing you have the latest version of calman.

ss
post #51 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

If you use a router, first get your VT50 IP address then all you would do is in the settings menu > display control > drop down list (display) select your TV > press connection method drop down list,select socket > you now will see a place to put the IP address in from your VT50, enter it > go back to your VT50 select custom mode, drop down to pro settings and then press the red button on the VT50 remote for about 4 seconds, then you will see on your screen saying Waiting > now press the connect tab in the display control menu, if things are working right you should now be connect to your VT50.
I am guessing you have the latest version of calman.

ss

Thanks!
We got it to work.
I was only able to get 24 fl with ISF Day/Night at 100% contrast.
Is there something I am missing?

Thanks,

Rich
post #52 of 199
Rich, look at my settings in the VT50 Settings thread (the last ones). That may help you. They came from my Day calibration in ControlCal
post #53 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Can anyone tell me how to adjust the PANEL brightness (low-mid-high) in the ISF modes? When I'm in Calman (DIY), I can only seem to adjust the settings dictated in the flow (I'm using Standard_DDC), which doesn't seem to cover panel brightness (only regular, Black-Level brightness), and I can't access the settings on the TV when the VT50 is connected to Calman. When I disconnect, I can't get into the "Pro" menu for the ISF modes, which is where the Panel Brightness setting is.

Any ideas?

It seems like the panel brightness low/mid/high is only available in the Panasonic consumer auto workflow. You have to pay for autocal to get it
post #54 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by alston80 View Post

It seems like the panel brightness low/mid/high is only available in the Panasonic consumer auto workflow. You have to pay for autocal to get it

Yeah, I bought a ControlCAL license and opened up everything completely. Definitely the way to go.... Calman DIY alone isn't enough to get the most out of the ISF modes.
post #55 of 199
Thanks all. It is good to know that there is a way.
I will give it a whirl on the Calibration at my friends house.

The VT50 is a great display.

- Rich
post #56 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Thanks!
We got it to work.
I was only able to get 24 fl with ISF Day/Night at 100% contrast.
Is there something I am missing?

Thanks,

Rich

Ya 24fl sounds about right for 100%.

I use about 83% contrast and around 50% brightness settings.
Its all in how you adjust your grayscale and set up your CMS colors.
One tip I can give you is stay away from using the green adjustments for grayscale. Adjusting green in your CMS settings is ok. but I would only make small adjustments with green in CMS.
Don't worry if you can't get 10% with RGB tracking right, just make sure you don't get any color other than dark gray (10-IRE) in the 10% gray window.

There is very little question in my mind and using Warm 2 setting for best results with your grayscale. I am also leaning towards 2.2 as my target Gamma, but 2.4 will work fine also, its just that I find (so far) 2.2 setting to be a little brighter picture than 2.4.

I also have Autocal and Controlcal, but I haven't used them as of yet, I first want to get a understanding of what I can do with Calman 4.2.3 and then move on.
I always used Controlcal with Calman 3.7, but Calman 4.2.3 is different so first things first.

ss
post #57 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Looking forward to hearing of your results with the VT50. I am an amateur DIY calibrator with a i1 Display Pro and Calman DIY who's done only a single TV (a Samsung UND8000) and while I got pretty good results with that TV (see my sig link), I'm intimidated by the VT50 due to its quirks and bugs. So far, between the VE shootout and these forums, I've identified the following quirks:
  • CMS Controls are broken - WORKAROUND: they're relatively close as-is, and can be lowered with the generic "color" control.
  • 10pt WB adjustment doesn't affect 1/2 points as it should - WORKAROUND: unknown??

Anyone know of any others?

Other than that, I have the following questions:
  1. I'm wondering how I unlock the ISF modes with the Calman DIY software- do I need a special license for this?
  2. Also, what about controlling the TV from Calman DIY? Do I need an additional license for this? I don't care about Auto-Cal... just thought it would be nice to drive the display's controls from the laptop. The Calman site is unclear (IMO) about what licenses you need for what.
  3. I'm not doing break-in slides- since I have my own equipment I figured I'd calibrate up front, and re-calibrate in a couple months. Anything wrong with this?

Sorry, that's a lot of questions. Thanks in advance guys.

Sorry I just now saw your post. Read my latest reply, just above this post.

ss
post #58 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

  • 10pt WB adjustment doesn't affect 1/2 points as it should - WORKAROUND: unknown??

From what I have read, you can get very close with a two point calibration and then use the 10 point for touch ups. This should keep the inter-point variation to a minimum.

- Rich
post #59 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Ya 24fl sounds about right for 100%.

I use about 83% contrast and around 50% brightness settings.
Its all in how you adjust your grayscale and set up your CMS colors.
One tip I can give you is stay away from using the green adjustments for grayscale. Adjusting green in your CMS settings is ok. but I would only make small adjustments with green in CMS.
Don't worry if you can't get 10% with RGB tracking right, just make sure you don't get any color other than dark gray (10-IRE) in the 10% gray window.

There is very little question in my mind and using Warm 2 setting for best results with your grayscale. I am also leaning towards 2.2 as my target Gamma, but 2.4 will work fine also, its just that I find (so far) 2.2 setting to be a little brighter picture than 2.4.

I also have Autocal and Controlcal, but I haven't used them as of yet, I first want to get a understanding of what I can do with Calman 4.2.3 and then move on.
I always used Controlcal with Calman 3.7, but Calman 4.2.3 is different so first things first.

ss

Thanks, I have tried altering Green in the grayscale with ugly results on the low end; Noise and loss of color. So, I stay away from them.

I was working on a friends VT50. I think there will be another visit with ControlCal and see if I can enable Mid panel brighness.

-Rich
post #60 of 199
CalMAN v4.6.x supports panel brightness via DDC for the PDP 30/50 panels and backlight for the LCD 30/50 panels. Those are on the Panasonic workflow in the Contrast setting step for setting overall light output. Or from the DDC control panel Display Controls.
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