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Panasonic VT50 Self Vs. Pro Calibration - Page 4

post #91 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart321 View Post

I have a VT50 that I would like to calibrate, but also have a Front Projector (HD70) and Samsung LCD (46C6300) that I would like to calibrate in the future as well. Does it make sense for me to purchase or rent the equipment and try to do it myself? I am not looking for a perfect calibration, but imagine I can improve it significantly with a proper calibration using a decent meter (other than simply using cal discs and filters, etc).
Any recommendations? Are there economical meters that will give me good results and be compatible with the FP, Plasma, and LCD? I imagine I would find myself checking my computer monitors as well. I am happy to spend a decent amount of time learning how to do it before getting good results too.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by sivart321 View Post

Can anyone help me with the question above? This directly relates to self vs pro calibration.

I would consider purchasing.. Since you are starting out, you are going to need to put in considerable 'time'.. the path to learning this stuff is never ending, and the fact you want to work with all those displays / display types,, there will be multiple paths of learning/branches.
post #92 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

I would consider purchasing in that case.. Since you are starting out, you are going to need to put in considerable 'time'.. the path to learning this stuff is never ending.

What meter would be recommended for this? Would the OEM i1Display suffice?
post #93 of 199
hmm I had edited in that info but the submit just sat there and hung.. then went through.. obviously the new forum platform is not 100%

I always recommend the i1Pro Spectro first followed by the ColorMunki Spectro second. There is a new updated model of the i1Pro, the i1Pro2.. You can also find used i1Pro Rev D's around for good pricing.. I myself just sold my 4th and final i1Pro Rev D to fellow AVS members here...

Then, in the future, you can add a colorimeter like the Display 3 which you can profile off of your i1Pro or Colormunki Spectro. However, I am also a believer in using the Spectro for everything... You won't really have to deal with drift in an i1Pro either, cost savings over time.

Also, see here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1373556/i1-pro-or-d3-if-you-could-only-have-one-meter


.
Edited by turbe - 6/8/12 at 11:23am
post #94 of 199
]
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

There is a OSD toggle in the workflow just for that.
It is in the Panasonic workflow for turning the OSD on/off. Or you can open the DDC controls and put it in your workflow.

Thanks for the reply, yes I found it about 30 minuets after I posted.

I am use to Calman 3.7, skipping all the how to stuff and going right to my work flow.

Non the less, I do like your DIY verstion 4.6, Your 4.6 version works very well with my 65VT50, much better then 3.7 did with my Kuro 141.

However I can't say the same for your AutoCal, imo its not very good . Ran a 10pt IRE with it last night, I was very surprised to see how it worked, only adjusting the Red and Green along with the 10pt gamma.
I would think you would leave green alone and only use Red and Blue along with the 10pt Gamma .

ss
post #95 of 199
Hi All,

I have noticed severel references to avoid adjusting Green when doing an advanced DIY calibration. Is this some sort of general rule of thumb or something unique to the VT50?

CalMan has a nice bundle with the AutoCal included, which is tempting. That said, I see mixed reviews on the AutoCal piece with the VT50. I see AutoCal as something designed to get me most of the way there,and then doing the rest by hand... is this an incorrect view? Would AutoCal make things worse and is it best to avoid it all together, or is a good "starter" tool?
post #96 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones View Post

Hi All,
I have noticed severel references to avoid adjusting Green when doing an advanced DIY calibration. Is this some sort of general rule of thumb or something unique to the VT50?

AFAIK, it's a general rule of thumb since adjusting green high end or green low end controls has the same effect as adjusting contrast or brightness, respectively. This obviously applies for 1 or 2 point grayscale controls only. If you have 10-pt or greater controls, you can use the steps between 0% and 100% to adjust gamma (by moving RGB all up or down as needed).
post #97 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

AFAIK, it's a general rule of thumb since adjusting green high end or green low end controls has the same effect as adjusting contrast or brightness, respectively. This obviously applies for 1 or 2 point grayscale controls only. If you have 10-pt or greater controls, you can use the steps between 0% and 100% to adjust gamma (by moving RGB all up or down as needed).

Thanks for the clarification! That makes sense. Using Calman with the VT50 I belive you have access to 10 pt controls (I have not tried this as I don't yet own Calman). However Sillysally said above:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

] Ran a 10pt IRE with it last night, I was very surprised to see how it worked, only adjusting the Red and Green along with the 10pt gamma.
I would think you would leave green alone and only use Red and Blue along with the 10pt Gamma .
ss

According to SS the autocal just adjusts the Red and Green - but as it is doing so with 10pt controls, is this an issue? Or am I confusing something (which is entirely possible)?
post #98 of 199
Our AutoCal code for CalMAN 4 is adaptive to balance RGB and Gamma. It analyzes the displays response and then decides how best to match RGB independent of Gamma within the range of control we have. Once RGB is balanced it then moves onto Gamma.

With the current VT50 firmware it has many issues with the RGB and Gamma controls that Panasonic has sorted and we have verified. So once the firmware update is pushed the AutoCal should be working much better.
post #99 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Our AutoCal code for CalMAN 4 is adaptive to balance RGB and Gamma. It analyzes the displays response and then decides how best to match RGB independent of Gamma within the range of control we have. Once RGB is balanced it then moves onto Gamma.
With the current VT50 firmware it has many issues with the RGB and Gamma controls that Panasonic has sorted and we have verified. So once the firmware update is pushed the AutoCal should be working much better.

Hi Derek,

A few questions:

1. Well first, a comment: Thanks for posting here. It really means a lot (to me, at least) when I see any company employee reach out like this, let alone its CTO.

2. The VT50 firmware upgrade you speak of- can you shed some more light on this? Is this related to the fact that the 10pt gamma and RGB controls are pretty much non-interpolated? What about CMS Luminance fix? Is that in the works? If so, this will take the VT50 from "very good" to "excellent" in my opinion.

3. I recently got AutoCal and a USB-UIRT- in Calman 5 will we be able to choose APL Small-Window patterns on the AVS HD709 disc for AutoCal and/or USB-UIRT operation? I was disappointed to see that there is no way to change away from the non-APL, standard-sized windows.

Thanks again!
post #100 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Our AutoCal code for CalMAN 4 is adaptive to balance RGB and Gamma. It analyzes the displays response and then decides how best to match RGB independent of Gamma within the range of control we have. Once RGB is balanced it then moves onto Gamma.
With the current VT50 firmware it has many issues with the RGB and Gamma controls that Panasonic has sorted and we have verified. So once the firmware update is pushed the AutoCal should be working much better.

does it go back and see if the RGB balance needs further tweaking after working on gamma?
post #101 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

does it go back and see if the RGB balance needs further tweaking after working on gamma?

The autocal code is code that I write. When doing a setup like the VT50 with RGB balance +Gamma, we constantly monitor and adjust r,g,b and gamma until all 4 channels are within threshold.
Edited by sotti - 7/22/12 at 7:32pm
post #102 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Our AutoCal code for CalMAN 4 is adaptive to balance RGB and Gamma. It analyzes the displays response and then decides how best to match RGB independent of Gamma within the range of control we have. Once RGB is balanced it then moves onto Gamma.
With the current VT50 firmware it has many issues with the RGB and Gamma controls that Panasonic has sorted and we have verified. So once the firmware update is pushed the AutoCal should be working much better.

Thanks for jumping in! While I am sure you can't reveal what exactly was fixed, did Panasonic give you any indication as to when the new firmware will be released? Regarding your current CalMan bundle with Autocal (on sale for $545 I think), how long will you extend that? Will it be available after the firmware fix?

EDIT - I see the CalMAN DIY Software w/ ColorMunki is out of stock. I may want to skip Autocal for the time being and spend the money on a better meter. Do you expect the ColoMunki bundle to be back in stock soon?

Many thanks!
Edited by Blackbelt Jones - 7/23/12 at 7:26am
post #103 of 199
We can't say much about the pending Panasonic xx50 firmware updates other than it is coming and fixes all our issues with AutoCal. Once we find out the firmware update is out we will let everyone know to have their displays check for updates.
post #104 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We can't say much about the pending Panasonic xx50 firmware updates other than it is coming and fixes all our issues with AutoCal. Once we find out the firmware update is out we will let everyone know to have their displays check for updates.

Thanks! I'll keep my fingers crossed smile.gif
post #105 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Our AutoCal code for CalMAN 4 is adaptive to balance RGB and Gamma. It analyzes the displays response and then decides how best to match RGB independent of Gamma within the range of control we have. Once RGB is balanced it then moves onto Gamma.
With the current VT50 firmware it has many issues with the RGB and Gamma controls that Panasonic has sorted and we have verified. So once the firmware update is pushed the AutoCal should be working much better.

Is this the issue with the "in between" the 10-point steps of the grayscale issue that was mentioned at this years' shootout?
post #106 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Is this the issue with the "in between" the 10-point steps of the grayscale issue that was mentioned at this years' shootout?

I don't remember, but I believe it was D-Nice who first reported it. Whether it was during the shootout or shortly afterwards, I can't remember.
post #107 of 199
post #108 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


Thanks for this Buzz. It looks like the 2pt adjustment helps offset some of the non-interpolated points, but a lot of that might be luck too, as 85% and 95% look WAY off. Almost to the point where it seems like you might want to leave that range alone- couldn't that cause unwanted colorful banding in a smooth gradient?

Either way, here's to hoping that this is part of the upcoming VT50 firmware update.
post #109 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Thanks for this Buzz. It looks like the 2pt adjustment helps offset some of the non-interpolated points, but a lot of that might be luck too, as 85% and 95% look WAY off. Almost to the point where it seems like you might want to leave that range alone- couldn't that cause unwanted colorful banding in a smooth gradient?
Either way, here's to hoping that this is part of the upcoming VT50 firmware update.

Unmeasured are data points like 81%, 87%, etc. Potentially the 10% intervals could be correct but many points in between might be off. I agree that this sounds like a problem that could make autocal choke to death and hopefully that is part of the fix along with the CMS luminance controls. I run my signal through a video processor and the luminance tunes up just fine. Unfortunately the one VP I have that sports 5% GS adjustment is at my other place because I'd love to see what it can, or can't, do with 85 and 95% on the VT50.

Could this all mean that the manufacturer, giving no satisfaction regarding complaints from individuals, buckled under pressure from a software company??????
post #110 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Could this all mean that the manufacturer, giving no satisfaction regarding complaints from individuals, buckled under pressure from a software company??????

If so, we all owe our friends at SpectraCal a great deal of thanks smile.gif
post #111 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

If so, we all owe our friends at SpectraCal a great deal of thanks smile.gif

Well we do work closely with Panasonic engineering directly out of Japan. We have a very good symbiotic relationship, we get the stuff needed for CalMAN and AutoCal and they get our feedback, advanced product testing, future feature requests and a ear to the community.

Word has it the firmware update will be sooner than later.
post #112 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Well we do work closely with Panasonic engineering directly out of Japan. We have a very good symbiotic relationship, we get the stuff needed for CalMAN and AutoCal and they get our feedback, advanced product testing, future feature requests and a ear to the community.
Word has it the firmware update will be sooner than later.

Glad to hear it, Derek. Thanks for your work. smile.gif
post #113 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Well we do work closely with Panasonic engineering directly out of Japan. We have a very good symbiotic relationship, we get the stuff needed for CalMAN and AutoCal and they get our feedback, advanced product testing, future feature requests and a ear to the community.
Word has it the firmware update will be sooner than later.

YES!!!! Thank you!!!!
post #114 of 199
I assume that calibration with calMan and AutoCal includes luminance. So would this new firmware include a fix for lthe luminance controls?
post #115 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

I assume that calibration with calMan and AutoCal includes luminance. So would this new firmware include a fix for lthe luminance controls?

Yes that was one of the main fixes
post #116 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones View Post

Thanks for the clarification! That makes sense. Using Calman with the VT50 I belive you have access to 10 pt controls (I have not tried this as I don't yet own Calman). However Sillysally said above:
According to SS the autocal just adjusts the Red and Green - but as it is doing so with 10pt controls, is this an issue? Or am I confusing something (which is entirely possible)?

I ran one more autocal, and it used all primary's.

I also tried "Interactive Mode" using calman and the same thing, not very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We can't say much about the pending Panasonic xx50 firmware updates other than it is coming and fixes all our issues with AutoCal. Once we find out the firmware update is out we will let everyone know to have their displays check for updates.

I am glad you are trying to fix autocal/"Interactive Mode" for the xx50's. However I don't think just the updated firmware from Panasonic will fix autocal, imo you guys need to do a lot of work to get autocal/"Interactive Mode" right.

One suggestion. When using autocal (saying you fix autocal) you may want to add a control to pause autocal, so folks with the i1pro meters can reset the meter after the 10 minute time limit.

ss
post #117 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Yes that was one of the main fixes

Pretty excited to see this. I was going to write a VT50 Review, with a How-to on calibrating with CalMan, but I might hold off for this FW fix so I can do it with AutoCal.
post #118 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I ran one more autocal, and it used all primary's.
I also tried "Interactive Mode" using calman and the same thing, not very good.
I am glad you are trying to fix autocal/"Interactive Mode" for the xx50's. However I don't think just the updated firmware from Panasonic will fix autocal, imo you guys need to do a lot of work to get autocal/"Interactive Mode" right.
One suggestion. When using autocal (saying you fix autocal) you may want to add a control to pause autocal, so folks with the i1pro meters can reset the meter after the 10 minute time limit.
ss

CalMAN 5 is right around the corner and to say we did a lot of work on it would be an understatement.
post #119 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

CalMAN 5 is right around the corner and to say we did a lot of work on it would be an understatement.

Are we talking a week or less? I'm really looking forward to trying it out. smile.gif

Will the GCD disc work with it?
post #120 of 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Are we talking a week or less? I'm really looking forward to trying it out. smile.gif
Will the GCD disc work with it?

CalMAN 5 releases are being staggered, unlike before were we just released all versions at the same time. The CalMAN 5 project has been almost two years in the works, has been in some form of testing for nearly a year. The amount of QA and final testing is staggering for the amount of hardware now supported and the industries it is going into. So we felt it best to stagger each release and give proper support to each one. I know everyone is excited about get their hands on 5 and I can tell you it will be worth the wait not much longer.

We just released “CalMAN 5 Studio” a couple weeks ago and are now getting ready to release “CalMAN 5 for Business”. We then have CalPC, CalMED, CalGEO and “CalMAN 5 Home Theater” not in any particular order.
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