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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 38

post #1111 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

as batpig notes, unless the avr is "broken", it should pass it through unmolested... as a "general video note"... it's actually better to pass 4:2:2 in almost all cases...

The BR deck will output 4:4:4 and the TV will display 4:4:4. Should I pass through 4:2:2 because it is the native BR color space and theoretically is the most process free signal, or because of potential AVR pass through issues ?
post #1112 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Secondary audio needs to be on if you want to hear what's being said in the PIP (Picture-In-Picture) extras available on some BDs. ... .

Not interested in secondary audio so that's not an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

... There is no quality difference between bitstreamed and non-bitstreamed (LPCM) audio. The difference is only in where the bitstreamed audio is decoded into LPCM -- in the player or in the receiver. Many of us who have "audio OCD" wink.gif like to see the HD audio decoder lights illuminated on the receiver. You won't see them when sending decoded (LPCM) audio from the player.

I don't see the audio decoder lights on my 1713. Is that because it doesn't have them?

I'm also finding the AVR display a bit confusing ... is the larger text in the main window identifying the signal the AVR is receiving, or, what the AVR is doing/processing? In this case the decoder-lights would be very useful!

Among other things I want to make sure something is not being decoded twice (which could happen on my old AVR).
Edited by sdg4vfx - 7/21/12 at 4:45pm
post #1113 of 10469
Two more questions re 1713 set-up:

When the 1713 is receiving a stereo signal (like when playing music from my AppleTV) it is only playing back through the front L/R speakers and the sub is not engaged. Can I get the sub to play also with stereo inputs?

I used to have an Onkyo - it gave me a list of eq/decoding options that I could apply to whatever audio/input I was listening to at the moment. Does the 1713 have that? This was mostly useful for things like choosing, on the fly, to have a music stereo signal played through both the front and rear R/L speakers, try out Dolby ProLogic on an unidentified 2 channel stream, etc. (Not a deal breaker or anything, just curious.)

Thanks!
Edited by sdg4vfx - 7/21/12 at 4:52pm
post #1114 of 10469
^^
1. Yes. After running AUTO SETUP, ensure all speakers are set to SMALL with minimum of 80hz crossovers.
2. Yes. Press the "Movie" button on the remote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Not interested in secondary audio so that's not an issue.
I don't see the audio decoder lights on my 1713. Is that because it doesn't have them?
I'm also finding the AVR display a bit confusing ... is the larger text in the main window identifying the signal the AVR is receiving, or, what the AVR is doing/processing? In this case the decoder-lights would be very useful!
Among other things I want to make sure something is not being decoded twice (which could happen on my old AVR).

The larger text shows the surround mode selected. There is no decoding twice as it's either done by the source or the AVR.
post #1115 of 10469
Read the following review on amazon about 2113ci.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1HGSSPIP33EKM/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R1HGSSPIP33EKM

Am a TOTAL novice!!! It gets me scared on the 2113.
BEen reading rave reviews of 2112ci. For now, until updates are out, would that be a better buy. I am getting both for hte SAME price interestingly
post #1116 of 10469
^^
If only that Amazon reviewer had either known about AVS Forum or even just called Denon support before posting his review as every item he lists as "bad" is incorrect.
post #1117 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

as batpig notes, unless the avr is "broken", it should pass it through unmolested... as a "general video note"... it's actually better to pass 4:2:2 in almost all cases...

The BR deck will output 4:4:4 and the TV will display 4:4:4. Should I pass through 4:2:2 because it is the native BR color space and theoretically is the most process free signal, or because of potential AVR pass through issues ?

keeping it short and simple, since i don't want to be accused of going off topic... smile.gif

well, technically, br's are encoded 4:2:0, but since there is no defined spec to transmit that, it has to be converted to something in order to transmit it... 4:2:2 is the closest to "unmolested"... everything "speaks 4:2:2", as it's the lowest common denominator... also, most video processors do their "work" in 4:2:2...

the main issue isn't really pass through (although it occasionally can be)... the issue is the color space conversions themselves... some equipment does not do them correctly, introducing errors into the process...

if you really want to know which way is best with your equipment, you have to do "real testing" (i.e. test patterns, as you won't be able to eyeball it with real world material)... or you can just not worry about it, as if equipment isn't broken, the likelihood of you noticing colorspace conversion errors in "real world viewing" is very slim*... smile.gif

* unless they were really major, in which case you'd be posting asking "why are my colors messed up?"... wink.gif
post #1118 of 10469
Decided to buy the Denon 2112CI. Went to Amazon and ordered from EE for $450 . Next day received email from them advising they were sold out and not receiving anymore. They offered me a complimentary upgrade to a brand new 2113CI at the same price. Told then yes and awaiting delivery now. smile.gif
post #1119 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
1. Yes. After running AUTO SETUP, ensure all speakers are set to SMALL with minimum of 80hz crossovers.

To make sure I understand ...
You are saying that after doing the Auto Setup I should change the R/F fronts setting to "Small" and the crossover to 80hz even if Audyssey created "Large" speaker settings and a different crossover?
(Does this mean a "Large" speaker setting tends to leaves the sub off?)

Also, I currently have 3-way tower R/L fronts (tweeter, 2 mids, 8" woofer), does that make a difference re your suggested 80hz crossover or speaker size setting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
2. Yes. Press the "Movie" button on the remote.
The larger text shows the surround mode selected. There is no decoding twice as it's either done by the source or the AVR.

Ah, I just discovered that if you push and hold a "Sound Mode" button, like "Movie", you can scroll through decode/eq options. (Presumably the list of options changes based on what's appropriate for the input signal at that time.)

I'll put in a Blu-Ray to test if I have the decoding blue indicator light ; )
post #1120 of 10469
1. Yes. Change from LARGE to SMALL and raise crossover to 80hz. Doesn't matter what speakers you have.
2. Denon dropped the "blue" HD light a few years ago.
post #1121 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

keeping it short and simple, since i don't want to be accused of going off topic... smile.gif
well, technically, br's are encoded 4:2:0, but since there is no defined spec to transmit that, it has to be converted to something in order to transmit it... 4:2:2 is the closest to "unmolested"... everything "speaks 4:2:2", as it's the lowest common denominator... also, most video processors do their "work" in 4:2:2...
the main issue isn't really pass through (although it occasionally can be)... the issue is the color space conversions themselves... some equipment does not do them correctly, introducing errors into the process...

Thanks for the info. Actually this is not off topic for me as it affected my choice of receiver. I've been considering an Oppo BR deck, which is supposed to have very good internal color conversion. I specifically looked for a receiver that would pass-through HDMI video signals (whether it was a model with no video processing, like the 1713, or a higher end model with video processing that would still allow you a "pass-through" option).
post #1122 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. Yes. Change from LARGE to SMALL and raise crossover to 80hz. Doesn't matter what speakers you have.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

2. Denon dropped the "blue" HD light a few years ago.

Oddly I feel a bit disappointed ; )
post #1123 of 10469
Does anyone know how long it typically takes for Harmony to begin supporting the new AVRs for a new model year?
post #1124 of 10469
Thanks, Beeman, no the iPod is not muted. There are no headphones in, but there aren't either when I connect it on the cars stereo, and there it works like a charm
post #1125 of 10469
Thanks, batpig. It sounds like I'm gonna get me the pioneer then :-)
post #1126 of 10469
I ordered the 2312 from Electronics Expo through Amazon on Saturday. It showed status as shipped on Sunday, so I shot them an email asking for the tracking number and this morning I received a response saying that my email had been forwarded to another department and that I should hear something within 24-48 hours. I called the number and was told that the 2312 was no longer in stock and that they were upgrading me to the 2313 at no additional cost.

I saved $271 from the Amazon price and $71 from the price quoted on Friday when I called Electronics Expo to check on their inventory of the 2312. biggrin.gif Many thanks to those who have posted about this upgrade through EE.
Edited by sheshechic - 7/23/12 at 10:30am
post #1127 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

keeping it short and simple, since i don't want to be accused of going off topic... smile.gif
well, technically, br's are encoded 4:2:0, but since there is no defined spec to transmit that, it has to be converted to something in order to transmit it... 4:2:2 is the closest to "unmolested"... everything "speaks 4:2:2", as it's the lowest common denominator... also, most video processors do their "work" in 4:2:2...
the main issue isn't really pass through (although it occasionally can be)... the issue is the color space conversions themselves... some equipment does not do them correctly, introducing errors into the process...

Thanks for the info. Actually this is not off topic for me as it affected my choice of receiver. I've been considering an Oppo BR deck, which is supposed to have very good internal color conversion. I specifically looked for a receiver that would pass-through HDMI video signals (whether it was a model with no video processing, like the 1713, or a higher end model with video processing that would still allow you a "pass-through" option).

you are welcome... smile.gif

the oppo is a good choice, for many reasons... i'm a big oppo fanboy... smile.gif
post #1128 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by LC 66 View Post

Does anyone know how long it typically takes for Harmony to begin supporting the new AVRs for a new model year?

I just bought a new Harmony 700 and my 2113CI is supported right away.

Pat
post #1129 of 10469
Just purchased a 1913 from Fry's this weekend. Now I just need to set up a wireless bridge. Has anyone had any experiences with wireless routers from Monprice?
post #1130 of 10469
No experience, but their products are generally very reliable and returnable if there's an issue with them.
post #1131 of 10469
Following on from my problem connecting my new Denon AVR 1713 and Sony KDL46Z5800
I received an extraordinary response ( I thought) from SONY ! They cannot provide me with the EDID information for their product ? Response attached.

My next plan is to try out the AVR on my friends similar model SONY TV to rule out cables and if possible pinpoint My TV being the problem. My only alternative then will be to change the AVR for a Yamaha RXV673 ???



Forwarded message
From:
Date: Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: RE: Sony Support E-mail | LCD Television [case:6947354][email:275123905]
To: MY EMAIL

Dear Mr WOODYIRL

Thank you for your email.
I appreciate your query to get the EDID information on the monitor.
I regret to inform you that this is service information that we do not have available. As for the software suggested by the receiver’s support team, I have to apologize for not being able to provide any information regarding this as it falls outside our scope of support.

I am sorry that on this occasion we cannot be of direct help and apologize for any disappointment that this reply may cause.

Yours sincerely

Enas Moselhy
Sony United Kingdom and Ireland, a division of Sony Europe Limited. A company registered in England and Wales.

Registered office: The Heights, Brooklands, Weybridge, Surrey, KT130XW

Registered company number: 2422874
post #1132 of 10469
Woody,

If you have a computer with an HDMI connection (or DVI or DisplayPort, although you'd have to get an adapter) , there are several free programs which can read and display the EDID information.
post #1133 of 10469
I have a difficult decision. I have a Denon 3802 which I would like to replace. What with the lack of HDMI and video conversion, it's time to move on.

From reading the manuals, I can't determine the significant differences between last year's 3312 and this year's 2313. (They are about the same price now.) Both seem to have similar inputs, outputs, surround, networking, Airplay, etc. The only differences I see are these: The 2313 supports DSD over HDMI. Most likely, I'm in the camp who wouldn't be able to hear any difference, so that's not a showstopper. The 3312, on the other hand, has AM radio, which is a plus, and a little more power, which shouldn't matter but would be nice to have. BTW, I'm not interested in multi-zone or multiple video screens, just a simple, straightforward 5.1 system for both music and movies. If there are other significant differences, please let me know.

On top of this, I have read that the 3802 is a tremendous unit with great sound, and that the only current unit comparable is the 4311 (and soon, the 4520). If I'll notice a great sonic difference for music and/or movies with either of these units compared to the 3802, please let me know.
post #1134 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by LC 66 View Post

Does anyone know how long it typically takes for Harmony to begin supporting the new AVRs for a new model year?

The day I got my 3313ci, I loaded the Logitech software and added the new device and the 3313ci was already in their database!
post #1135 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartlettMike View Post

I have a difficult decision. I have a Denon 3802 which I would like to replace. What with the lack of HDMI and video conversion, it's time to move on.
From reading the manuals, I can't determine the significant differences between last year's 3312 and this year's 2313. (They are about the same price now.) Both seem to have similar inputs, outputs, surround, networking, Airplay, etc. The only differences I see are these: The 2313 supports DSD over HDMI. Most likely, I'm in the camp who wouldn't be able to hear any difference, so that's not a showstopper. The 3312, on the other hand, has AM radio, which is a plus, and a little more power, which shouldn't matter but would be nice to have. BTW, I'm not interested in multi-zone or multiple video screens, just a simple, straightforward 5.1 system for both music and movies. If there are other significant differences, please let me know.
On top of this, I have read that the 3802 is a tremendous unit with great sound, and that the only current unit comparable is the 4311 (and soon, the 4520). If I'll notice a great sonic difference for music and/or movies with either of these units compared to the 3802, please let me know.

Although the 4311CI is the current successor to the 3802, any model using Audyssey MultEQ or higher will likely provide improved audio fidelity as has been noted by other 3802 owners who upgraded to the 19XX series which uses only MultEQ.
post #1136 of 10469
Gapless ALAC/FLAC 24/192 Khz support coming to the 1913 and higher models via firmware update later this summer.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 9/29/12 at 3:46pm
post #1137 of 10469
Thanks, you answered my question about the 3802. Besides what I stated before, are there any significant differences between the 3312 and the 2313, which are about the same price right now? If the networking or Airplay are much better on this year's model than last year's, for example, I'd go with the 2313. Otherwise, I'd go with the 3312 so I would have the additional power and AM radio, for example.

Still undecided.......
post #1138 of 10469
Airplay on the XX13 models is improved in that it can now play independently to Zone 2 with another source playing in the main zone. With the XX13 models just released, it's hard to tell whether the networking capability is improved and seems to be more related to the specific router used more so than feature reliability. The power difference is moot ... even 25W difference between the 3312CI and the 2113CI, although the 3312CI offers a full set of pre-outs should an external amp be required.
post #1139 of 10469
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Airplay on the XX13 models is improved in that it can now play independently to Zone 2 with another source playing in the main zone. With the XX13 models just released, it's hard to tell whether the networking capability is improved and seems to be more related to the specific router used more so than feature reliability. The power difference is moot ... even 25W difference between the 3312CI and the 2113CI, although the 3312CI offers a full set of pre-outs should an external amp be required.

Any feature differences I'm missing? The manuals and online spec sheets don't tell me much.
post #1140 of 10469
You can review the features in the various models by looking at the first few posts in each of the respective XX12 and XX13 Owner's threads linked in my sig.
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