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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 39

post #1141 of 10468
Just another (new) 2113CI owner chiming in to say I had originally ordered a 2112CI yesterday for my new newbie setup as it totally exceeded my needs from EE through Amazon; today I got an email stating they were sold out of 2112 and want to send me a 2113CI at no additional cost. Seems a strange way to maintain their finances (Why not tell Amazon they're sold out?) -- but, hey, I just landed a 2113CI for $460 so whoop-de-doo! smile.gif

Surprised to see the drop of support for AM Radio, but then I had to count on my hand when the last time was I listened to AM radio in the past ten years... couldn't come up with a count..
post #1142 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartlettMike View Post

Any feature differences I'm missing? The manuals and online spec sheets don't tell me much.

actually the manuals say a lot, maybe you just don't know where to look yet wink.gif don't worry, it takes years to master Denon-ese.

as JD already noted, reviewing the first few posts of the xx12 and xx13 model threads will teach you a lot, both in terms of the differences in units as you go up/down the line, and what has changed in general between the xx12 and xx13 models. By reviewing this material and looking at photos of the back panels

the biggest difference is that the 3312, being a higher level unit, has more input/output flexibility on the back panel:

- 1 extra HDMI input
- full 7.2ch pre-outs for adding an external amp (2313 only has 2 sub pre-outs)
- 1 extra composite video input
- 2 extra analog audio inputs (one of them a dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage)
- 2 S-video inputs (2313 has none)
- Zone 3 pre-outs (2313 only has 2 zones)
- 1 extra 12v trigger output
- AM radio antenna plug'

plus, although both have DSX, the 3312 has a full complement of 11 pairs of speaker binding posts, meaning you can connect up to 11 speakers and switch between heights, surround backs, and wides depending on the content and/or your preference. The 2313 only has 7 pairs of speaker posts, so you must choose from the start whether you want to use heights, surr backs, or wides for the "extra" two speakers.

the 3312 should also theoretically have slightly better 2ch audio fidelity with the AL24+ processing.

In terms of Audyssey both have MultEQ XT, Dynamic EQ + Volume, DSX and are Pro capable, so no real difference there.

the 2313's main advantages are the AirPlay improvement (independent to Zone 2) and any other differences noted at the beginning of this thread with respect to new changes on the xx13 models.
post #1143 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

actually the manuals say a lot, maybe you just don't know where to look yet wink.gif don't worry, it takes years to master Denon-ese.
as JD already noted, reviewing the first few posts of the xx12 and xx13 model threads will teach you a lot, both in terms of the differences in units as you go up/down the line, and what has changed in general between the xx12 and xx13 models. By reviewing this material and looking at photos of the back panels
the biggest difference is that the 3312, being a higher level unit, has more input/output flexibility on the back panel:
- 1 extra HDMI input
- full 7.2ch pre-outs for adding an external amp (2313 only has 2 sub pre-outs)
- 1 extra composite video input
- 2 extra analog audio inputs (one of them a dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage)
- 2 S-video inputs (2313 has none)
- Zone 3 pre-outs (2313 only has 2 zones)
- 1 extra 12v trigger output
- AM radio antenna plug'
plus, although both have DSX, the 3312 has a full complement of 11 pairs of speaker binding posts, meaning you can connect up to 11 speakers and switch between heights, surround backs, and wides depending on the content and/or your preference. The 2313 only has 7 pairs of speaker posts, so you must choose from the start whether you want to use heights, surr backs, or wides for the "extra" two speakers.
the 3312 should also theoretically have slightly better 2ch audio fidelity with the AL24+ processing.
In terms of Audyssey both have MultEQ XT, Dynamic EQ + Volume, DSX and are Pro capable, so no real difference there.
the 2313's main advantages are the AirPlay improvement (independent to Zone 2) and any other differences noted at the beginning of this thread with respect to new changes on the xx13 models.

Thanks for the info. I started this by stating that extra zones don't matter much to me, and that the extra video out capabilities don't matter at all. I have a basic 5.1 setup with a single screen. Wiring for an additional 2 or 4 speakers is cost prohibitive. Because they are roughly the same price right now, my question on the feature sets of the 3312 vs the 2313 is a matter of features I would miss out on by purchasing one over the other. Yes, Airplay is something I will use. My family does, on occasion, listen to AM radio. That's a plus for the 3312, but we also have other inexpensive options for AM radio.

My current setup includes satellite receiver, DVD/CD (incl. SACD, DVDA), and occasionally an old VCR with composite video. S-video is useless to me. I'm curious if the Airplay differences between the two would be noted in the main listening zone.

Probably will go with 3312 unless I find other major differences, or if Airplay is a problem with it.
post #1144 of 10468
Thread Starter 
the ONLY difference in the AirPlay is that on the xx13 models, you can stream AirPlay to Zone 2 while watching a difference source in main zone, whereas on the xx12 models the AirPlay streaming "hijcks" the entire receiver requiring you to listen to AirPlay in both zones. It otherwise has zero effect on the main zone. So in your case with Zone 2/3 not really a factor, it's a moot point.

personally, I tend to prefer the higher-end model from last year at the same price point as the newer model, unless there is some "must have" feature in the newer model. That's just my philosophy though, as the outgoing model on discount usually represents a better value proposition and potentially better resale value.
post #1145 of 10468
Just found this forum...and pleased I have! Have been an AVR-2113 owner for just 2 weeks and am lovinbg it. Big improvement over my previous DENON AVR-1801 which itself was amazing back then!
I have it teamed up with A Samsung 8000 series smart TV and am using ARC HDMI (CEC) to connect. LG BD, Topfield STB, Wii etc. through AVR. Samsung remote controls the AVR volume, turns off AVR with TV, controls BD & STB functions etc via HDMI CEC (Anynet+) but I still feel that the TV control of the AVR and vice-versa should be better e.g. turning on the AVR should be able to turn the TV on? Turning on the TV should be able to turn the AVR on? Control of AVR menu from TV?
I would love to hear from anyone who has a similar set-up or knows the answer to this one. Maybe it is that the AVR doesn't connect fully by CEC or isn't compatible with Anynet+. Maybe it would be via a firmware update in the future.

Cheers, David smile.gif
post #1146 of 10468
Welcome to AVS Forum. smile.gif

Some components simply work better using HDMI-CEC than do others. Even the Samsung Owner's manual indicates it works best with only Samsung products (eg. Samsung AVR). You might be better served just picking up a Harmony remote that can likely control most all functions of every component in your setup.
post #1147 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalierfh View Post

Just another (new) 2113CI owner chiming in to say I had originally ordered a 2112CI yesterday for my new newbie setup as it totally exceeded my needs from EE through Amazon; today I got an email stating they were sold out of 2112 and want to send me a 2113CI at no additional cost. Seems a strange way to maintain their finances (Why not tell Amazon they're sold out?) -- but, hey, I just landed a 2113CI for $460 so whoop-de-doo! smile.gif
Surprised to see the drop of support for AM Radio, but then I had to count on my hand when the last time was I listened to AM radio in the past ten years... couldn't come up with a count..

Same thing for me, except I ordered directly from them. When I ordered a 2112CI yesterday their web site indicated they had 4 left, but I got the email saying they had sold out. My new 2113CI is on it's way!

Today, their web site shows sold out, and Amazon is using Paul's TV......
post #1148 of 10468
Quote:
Some components simply work better using HDMI-CEC than do others. Even the Samsung Owner's manual indicates it works best with only Samsung products (eg. Samsung AVR). You might be better served just picking up a Harmony remote that can likely control most all functions of every component in your setup.

But that would be TOO easy! LOL. Thanks for the reply. I guess I would like to solve this one. It is interesting that the STB and BD are getting old, epecially the STB but they seem compatible albeit not Samsung. I am thinking that a more recent device such as the AVS-2113 should have more chance of being compatible than the older Topfield and LG devices.

Am loving both the TV and the AVR! biggrin.gif
post #1149 of 10468
OK, I have settled on the Denon 3312. Thanks for all the assistance. Any strong feelings one way or another about refurb units? I have read that a factory refurb has the original factory warranty. The 3312 model is available for <$600, new they are ~$760+. It's a small difference, but it's still $160.

Thanks for the advice. It has been invaluable
post #1150 of 10468
Im reading on the Denon website right now. Refurbs have 1 year, new has 3 years.
post #1151 of 10468
Thanks to this thread I called Electronics Expo looking for the 2112ci. They do not have it but sold me the 2113ci for $500 including shipping!

Thanks AVS!
post #1152 of 10468
Question: If you can get the 1913 for $299 and the 2113Ci for $499. Which would you choose? why?
post #1153 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azboricua86 View Post

Question: If you can get the 1913 for $299 and the 2113Ci for $499. Which would you choose? why?

Wow, that's a big price gap. Are both from the same seller, a reputable seller and in new condition?
post #1154 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by azboricua86 View Post

Question: If you can get the 1913 for $299 and the 2113Ci for $499. Which would you choose? why?

This really depends on what speakers you're using (as the 2113CI uses the more advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT) and whether the $200 savings could be better spent towards upgrading your speakers or sub as money is generally always better spent upgrading speakers/sub vs. the AVR.
post #1155 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Wow, that's a big price gap. Are both from the same seller, a reputable seller and in new condition?

Frys Electornics has this pricing for both of them. I ask because most have said that $70 as a price gap between the two is a no brainer to go with the 2113Ci, but what about when you're talking about $200? Is that still the case?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This really depends on what speakers you're using (as the 2113CI uses the more advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT) and whether the $200 savings could be better spent towards upgrading your speakers or sub as money is generally always better spent upgrading speakers/sub vs. the AVR.

I am currently running the following:

Fronts and Rear:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117403

Center:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404

Sub:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117402
post #1156 of 10468
I'd get the 1913 and put the savings towards a better quality sub or center channel speaker if movies/TV make up most of your listening.
post #1157 of 10468
This is exactly what I was thinking. Keep the money in my pocket and look for a good deal on a great sub. The Center has been great and I quite like it.

Thank you for replying.
post #1158 of 10468
Thread Starter 
I agree with JD. Get the 1913 and put the savings towards a REAL subwoofer wink.gif

The "no brainer" upgrade calculus of 2113 vs. 1913 changes with a price gap that large. You are essentially paying for the upgrade to MultEQ XT, Zone 2 pre-outs, and the extra year of warranty, but a 40% price savings sort of overrules that.

If you had really nice speakers/subwoofer and a flexible budget, and/or really needed those Zone 2 pre-outs to feed audio to other rooms, I'd recommend the step up, but considering your needs and speakers allocating those extra funds to a subwoofer ugprade is a much better use of resources.
post #1159 of 10468
So now I ask, considering my AVR and speakers, what would you guys suggest as a subwoofer upgrade/replacement?
post #1160 of 10468
Thread Starter 
depends.... has less to do with the AVR/speakers than it does with the following three questions:

1. total subwoofer budget?
2. room size?
3. desired volume?
post #1161 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

depends.... has less to do with the AVR/speakers than it does with the following three questions:
1. total subwoofer budget?
2. room size?
3. desired volume?

It sounds like I have some research to do.

1. probably $300 or so.
2. 20ft by 20ft
3. I need it to hit HARD. Like the theaters. smile.gif
post #1162 of 10468
I'd take this information into the "Sub" forum and ask for some recommendations.

http://www.avsforum.com/f/113/subwoofers-bass-and-transducers
post #1163 of 10468
Thread Starter 
at a $300 budget level and that room size, I already know what the answer is going to be in the subwoofer forum:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078

grab it today while the $200 coupon code is still valid. At $300 no sub is going to hit as hard with as much output and low end extension.

(note that you will also get people in the sub forum saying "save up another $200!" but at a $300 budget this is the current king... the only other potential option would be the BIC PL-200)
post #1164 of 10468
Well .. there ya go then .... time to place your order azboricua86 as the sale ends today. Much better solution too. smile.gif
post #1165 of 10468
Thanks guys! I really appreciate it, I'll go read a little about it tonight and 99% guaranteed I'll be placing an order.
post #1166 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

at a $300 budget level and that room size, I already know what the answer is going to be in the subwoofer forum:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780078
grab it today while the $200 coupon code is still valid. At $300 no sub is going to hit as hard with as much output and low end extension.
(note that you will also get people in the sub forum saying "save up another $200!" but at a $300 budget this is the current king... the only other potential option would be the BIC PL-200)

I was planning on getting the s10.3, but now I don't know. Which one is the better buy?
post #1167 of 10468
First let me say how glad i am that i found this post. With all this knowledge floating around,how can you go wrong! Im looking to upgrade my old(15-20yr) stereo system.Right now i have a Harmon/Kardon AVR 75 with some JBL 630T(still rocks to this day). Im (was) pretty set on the Denon 3313ci receiver pushing some B&W(1200$each) speakers,which seem to be very inefficient (i.e the 125w Denon). I then got to listen to some Klipsch rf82(600$each) and they rocked like my JBL's.Now i know that the B&W's have a much cleaner/crisp sound,but the sound sounds muffled to me compared to the Klipsch,is this just me? I listen to clasic rock/rock mostly,so maybe is it the "type" of music.Im sure true "Classic" music would sound much better on the B&W's. Therefor my problem:

room size: 15x25
Listening: Rock,Classic Rock
ratio: 75% music 25% tv/movies

problems:
1: Im 42 and i want this to be my last stereo buy(unless some crazy new tech comes out,like..nvm ill keep dreaming). Is Denon the great quality now that its been known for?
2: If i go with the klipsch(that seem very efficeint )will the 3313ci be way to much power?
3:I plan on buying the whole 7.0 system over a year(gotta keep saving lol),besides the reciever and 2 tower speakers(i will buy the center speaker to match the towers at same time),what should i buy next or should i look in a different order
4:Ive heard that the sub-wolf is just as or more important then your actual towers?
5:how would you put the money % wise be..im thinking..30% receiver, 30%towers, 15% subs, 15% center, 10% rear.
6. are there better speakers that jam like the klipchs do?
post #1168 of 10468
Thread Starter 
^^^ Gmonski -- if you spend some time browsing the subwoofer forums these two subs have been hashed out plenty.

the S10.3 is $100 cheaper but it won't match the larger Klipsch 12" in overall output or low-end extension. However it's a very tight, accurate sub and will be adequate for medium or smaller rooms. At the $200 price point you can also consider the BIC F12 which will have more output than the smaller S10.3, but will be a bit "flabbier" as it sacrifices some tightness and musicality vs. the S10.3.

if you can afford the extra $100, the Klipsch is really a great deal though for HT performance.
post #1169 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roppee View Post

I then got to listen to some Klipsch rf82(600$each) and they rocked like my JBL's.Now i know that the B&W's have a much cleaner/crisp sound,but the sound sounds muffled to me compared to the Klipsch,is this just me?

not necessarily, Klipsch speakers with their horn-loaded tweeters tend to be very sensitive and will have an emphasized top end that many people like for home theater use. They will certainly be easier to drive to high volume levels. In direct comparison it's not surprising that a more "accurate" speaker would sound a bit "muffled" in comparison.

Quote:
1: Im 42 and i want this to be my last stereo buy(unless some crazy new tech comes out,like..nvm ill keep dreaming). Is Denon the great quality now that its been known for?

The fact of the matter is that pretty much ALL receiver brands have become a bit "cheaper" in absolute quality, with production moving to China, the use of cheaper commoditized parts, and the emphasis of receivers shifting more from being big, heavy grunt workhorses to being more like "computers" with networking, HDMI, DSP advances, etc. That said, Denons are certainly among the best of the current mass-market offerings. You probably won't get 10-15+ years of trouble free performance like you would with a 10-year-old model, simply because of the pace of advancing technology plus the relative fragility of modern components like HDMI boards, video chips, etc. Receivers are just much more complex and computer-like now.

Quote:
2: If i go with the klipsch(that seem very efficeint )will the 3313ci be way to much power?

no, there is no such thing as too much power.


Quote:
3:I plan on buying the whole 7.0 system over a year(gotta keep saving lol),besides the reciever and 2 tower speakers(i will buy the center speaker to match the towers at same time),what should i buy next or should i look in a different order

subwoofer next, then center, then surrounds.

Quote:
4:Ive heard that the sub-wolf is just as or more important then your actual towers?

the subwoofer is essential to home theater.

Quote:
5:how would you put the money % wise be..im thinking..30% receiver, 30%towers, 15% subs, 15% center, 10% rear.

sounds pretty good. as a general rule of thumb spending 2x as much on speakers as receiver is a good bet. Note that you may be able to save money on the receiver by going down to the 2313ci and allocating more to speakers/sub budget.

also note that for HT the center channel is just as important as the front L/R mains.


Quote:
6. are there better speakers that jam like the klipchs do

that's really subjective, it depends on your tastes...
post #1170 of 10468
so were close on the %...so im looking to spend equal on receiver and speaker,wiht the klipsch..whats the better option for me..hows Canton sound?
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