The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 5

There's at least three separate pages on their site about it, none of which discussed how the two inter-relate so I guess they don't. Can both be used at the same time though?

BTW, I did spend at least half an hour reading it. With the Audyssey thread at 50k+ posts it is unweidly and I really haven't kept up over the last three years so I'm trying to catch up. I suppose I should have searched in there but it is a feature of the 2313ci so maybe somebody researching that model will pick up something here.

^^
Why would Audyssey talk about a Dolby technology on their website? They're competing technologies.

Great! Look forward to your review on a comparison between the two and how you like the new GUI.

Full disclosure. If they work together tout it. If they conflict let your end users know beforehand so they don't lose good will. If it doesn't matter don't mention it... guess it doesn't matter.

Lots of manufacturer's do this for their product. Nothing worse than driving customers away with conflicting products.

Hi all,

I built a new house two years with the intention of installing a whole house audio system by Nuvo or Russound but at moment I can't justify the cost of a whole house system ($2500+) plus an additional $1250+ for a matching media server. In the meantime I have my Denon AVR-888 (which I borrowed from my home theater) hooked up to the most important zones (deck, garage, living room, bonus room) and an Apple Airport express. Its not pretty but it works, I would like my AVR-888 back so I was thinking that I would get an impedance matching 8 pair speaker selector and either a AVR-1713 or AVR-2113CI because they both support Airplay, DNLA (to play music from my NAS), the Denon Remote App, and SiriusXM internet streaming. I'm actually leaning towards the 2113CI because it has the RS232 port for integration with automation (I would like to setup "openremote" in the future) - I don't need anything fancy for video switching, etc. or anything greater than 5.1.

What do you guys think?

I've read that the SiriusXM streaming is US only, I have an XM online+ subscription in Canada - do you think they will support Canadian subscriptions one day? This one of the only reservations I have about the system at the moment. As a workaround I could use Airplay and the XM online app on an ipod (as I do right now) but it would be nice to have the AVR do everything. Have any of you owners tried the US SiriusXM?

My apologies for the short essay.

Thanks!

Being, as I am, a cheapskate, I believe the 1913 would meet my needs with powered zone 2 speakers but it doesn't have MultEQ XT, just MultEQ.

The 1713 is cheaper, does have MultEQ XT, but would need another amp to meet my zone 2 needs.

I've read that MultEQ XT is better than vanilla MultEQ but how much better? Will my tired old ears even notice the difference?

If I went the 1713 route, what sort of amp should I buy for zone 2 and how much would that cost?

I guess I could pick up a 2113 (or 2313) which would give me powered zone 2 plus MultEQ but I don't see it advertised anywhere at anything other than list price.

Decisions, decisions....

^^
There's less of a noticeable difference going from MultEQ --> MultEQ XT than there is going from MultEQ XT ---> MultEQ XT32 (4311CI). With a better quality speaker setup (ie. > $1500) you would have a better chance of noticing the difference. Best bet is to go with the model that meets your feature/input/output needs as either version of Audyssey will serve you well (especially if you're never experienced Audyssey before). Review the Zone 2 section at the bottom of post #3 linked in my sig for Zone 2 amp suggestions. Also note that until they go on clearance (eg. XX12 models), every "authorized" Denon reseller will list MSRP on their websites for XX13 models. You have to "call" them to get their best price. Review the Purchasing section of post #3 linked in my sig for purchase suggestions.

I'm having a hard time believing this.

If I'm reading correctly, the 2013 models are a HUGE step backwards to the 2012.

I thought features are supposed to "trickle down" to cheaper models. But the XX13 are "trickling up". The 1712 had 7.1 and Audyssey XT. Now I need to step up to the 1913 for 7.1 and the significantly more expensive 2113 for the Audyssey XT???

Denon is clearly cutting corners with the 2'' less chassis, lighter weight, no more power ring, no more AM (WTF???), and no "universal remote" functionality.

This is just bad.

One thing I'm not clear about, will the old HDMI 1.4 models pass a 4k signal untouched?

I don't care about 4k right now, I think it is a long ways away. And if my 1712 and 4311 will pass a 4k signal through to my eventual theoretical 4k TV unmolested, that is just dandy and means even longer I can ignore it.

...because I'm going to have a high quality 4k TV with accessible 4k source material before I even consider it as a reason to upgrade my box. And I suspect that is a pretty long time away.

The 1713 still retains Audyssey MultEQ XT.

Not likely no, although hard to say without a 4K signal to test. AFAIK, even a 4K upscaling AVR must specifically feature "4K pass through" otherwise it may only be able to "upscale to 4K".

Hi guys, I'm new to the whole AVR scene.

I'm wanting something to use primarily for use with my PS3 but also for use with my WD Elements Play.

The setup is only for a bedroom of about 5m wide x 3m depth.

I was orignally considering the Sony BDV-E380 all in one.

But since I don't need the Blu-Ray I may as well consider a more dedicated sound system. So I went on to find the HTIB Onkyo HT-S4505, the only bad things I've found are that Onkyo's generally get quite hot which can lead to problems and also it is a HTIB which so many of you despise, these are around £500.

Now I am considering getting seperates (maybe Denon AVR-1713 avr and Boston SoundWare XS 5.1 SE speakers which comes to around £630 at the marked prices by most websites.

Is it really worth paying the extra, I mean I know the latter is the better system but can it do everything the Onkyo can do plus more? There seems to be much more info on the Onkyo data sheet than the Denon's data sheet.

Reason I've singled out the 1713 is it seems to be within budget, albeit top end and it has this MultEQ XT which gives better processing of the sound(?), it also has the USB port for my phone which is cool and what is AirPlay, does this mean I can stream files from my PC to the AVR? That would be a nice feature. Though it doesn't have analouge > hdmi conversion, but will I need that since I have no vcr etc?

Does the 1713 support PLII or PLIIz because the next model up is 7.1 channel system but I'm only after a 5.1 system to keep costs down and it is only for a small bedroom. I can't find it on the Denon site, it says the 2113 does but no mention of it for the 1713.

Surely the highest 5.1 AVR they make should have it since PLII is only for 5.1 according to the Dolby site, and PLIIx is for transforming stereo into 7.1.

Great thread, thanks guys!

Under detailed specs on the Denon site in the supported sound formats section it says that the 1612 supports loads:

Dolby TrueHD

Dolby Digital Plus

Dolby Digital-Decoder

Dolby Digital EX

Dolby Pro Logic II
( incl. Pro Logic I Emulation)
96 kHz Processing (analog/PCM)
Dolby Pro Logic IIx
(Cinema, Music, Game)
Dolby Pro Logic IIz

DTS-HD

DTS-Decoder

DTS-ES Discrete/Matrix 6.1
/
DTS Neo:6 Cinema & DTS-Neo:6 Music
/
96-kHz Processing (analog/PCM)
DTS 96/24

But on the 1713's page it just says:

Dolby TrueHD

DTS-HD

DTS 96/24

Is this right?

^^
Welcome to AVS Forum (note there is a sister forum in Europe AVForums.com)

The Onkyo HTIB only uses the lowest version of Audyssey 2EQ which has far fewer speaker filters than XT and cannot EQ the sub, so basically any Denon model above the 1513 should provide for better audio quality. Airplay means you can stream audio from iTunes on your PC or from an iPhone/iPad as well. As the 1713 is only 5.1 and cannot expand to 7.1, it can do DD PLII but not DD PLIIz (front height). Not sure if you're quoting specs from the Europe website or USA website, but there are errors on the USA website as both models can do the same surround modes.

Thanks to both of you. I'm already on the AV forum (never realised it was a sister forum though - always thought they were just different) but I came accross this thread on google so thought I'd sign up :-D

I was quoting from the UK site but I tried to post links to all the things I mentioned but it wouldn't let me until I've made three posts.

On Crutchfield site it also says that Dolby PLII is supported, just read it before I saw your post batpig, maybe Denon will update theirs with more detailed info over time.

Are those speakers enough for a system like this or should I spend less on AVR and more on speakers, which is best road to go down?

I read before (in this thread I think) about buying tips when all the mrsp are on all the websites but now I can't find it. Do I just phone up the companies and ask what their best price is? Can somebody link me to the buying guides for when all the websites are the same price? Cheers!

The newer Denons are not worth a dime of upgrading! It seemed like Denon has developed an incurable epidemic of dropping features every year -- starting with the XX09, 10, 11, 12, and now these newer xx13 lineups are just insanely laughable when it comes to comparison with their previous models. I can go all the way back to 7 or 8 years but I'll leave that to the experts, heck I'm not even gonna go to the 09 or xx10 models (which I owned: AVR-2310CI) because there are TOO MANY features to list for deletion but, who in the hell came up with the stupid idea of omitting the AM tuner and the trademark Denon Input/Output speaker icon displays on the panel pictured here?

Also, many of the new Denons had reduced an extra HDMI Input in favor over a 'dual HDMI Output'...for what? I don't see a benefit. Bad news for some of you old-school audio/videophiles with Laser Disc players because Mr. Denon has nuked all of the infamous 'S-Video' Inputs...and don't even get me started on the "no Phono Input" part! I'm sure there are more important features that were lost for certain users; like how Zone 2 is controlled, programmable remote, some extra Audio Inputs, etc.. But aside from it being newer, I do not see any reasonable favor as an adequate upgrade over any of the previous models.

I'm disappointed with the 3313 this year. In previous years the 331x was the breakpoint where THD went down to 0.05 like the higher end units. This year its dropped now and is equivalent to its lower priced siblings 0.08. It no longer stands out from its cheaper siblings as the knee in the curver forcing you to 4311 or higher for audiophile quality sound. Disappointing.

^^Yeah, Denon has really fvcked up on this one.

I use the phrase "sister" loosely as they are not likely related at all.


Dolby PLII has been on every Denon AVR going back at least the past 4-5 years.


It's always a better idea to spend more on the speakers than the AVR, in fact, the general rule of thumb is to spend 1/3 of the budget on the AVR and 2/3 on the speakers.


In the USA, there are some resellers that will sell at a lower price over the phone then when ordering from their website. Don't know if that is also the case in Europe, although surely doesn't hurt to try.

As has been pointed out several times before in this thread as well as the XX12 Owner's thread, the Denon spec pages are riddled with multiple errors, of which that is one of them. The 3313CI THD spec remains at 0.05 just as it's predecessors.

I moved on after initially complaining about the lack of phono inputs and am very glad too! I have way more HDMI inputs than I'll ever use though, no gaming devices and the HTPC is about to replace the DVR/PVR and the Blu-ray player too, so I actually only need one but I'm in the minority and understand what Denon is doing.

@batpig...

yup... same every year... unit xxx is a pos because it no longer includes a feature that "I" consider vital, even though it's basically unused by the great majority of users...

of course, we will get as many (if not more), complaining that there weren't enough analog ports removed...

These are the same people who think computer manufacturers should still be putting 5.25" floppy drives and parallel ports in computers...

Technology moves on. Nothing new in the world of electronics.

That said, if Denon doesn't put a bespoke connection and input menu choice for 8 tracks, I'm going to hold my breath and stomp my feet. How can they continually ignore all three of us who want this feature:-) (had to use the smiley - no rolls eyes emoticon yet in the iPad app).

lol... yea... plus i'm irritated to begin with today...

i'd like to lock the "keep that interface forever" and the "get rid of everything except hdmi" crowds into a room together and let them annihilate themselves, personally...

furthermore, terrestial radio has been on life support for years... this is pretty easy to tell by the advertisers... realistically, although it may be vitally important to some (i actually think that one or two users might just expire because of the lack of it ), it's dead...

i'd settle for a db9 port, personally...

hey, where'd you hide the 8-track player when i was over the other day???