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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 49

post #1441 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicman17 View Post

Well my Denon 2113 arrived yesterday. I love it so far. The unit is much smaller than the hefty Onkyo it replaces. Best $407 i may have spent in my life. It sounds great with my Energy system. Was all set up and running easily. I guess it helped I read the manual waiting for it to arrive. Denon remote works great on iPad and Android phone. Airplay and Pandora are work rather nicely. Being a tech geek I like one more bit of hardware to play with. I hope to get Zone B set up on the back porch and try them out this weekend. I almost want another now for my home office if I can figure out an elegant way to get speaker wires to the front porch...lol

Where did you find the 2113 for $407?
post #1442 of 10468
It seems that there is a bug in the iPhone and iPad App to control the AVS-1913.
It will not detect or see anything that is not a typical IP address format.
192.168.168.x
I'm using a 192.168.250.x netwok and it cannot find the 1913 at all.
it can be pinged and accessed from my iPhone and iPad but the App fails to find it.
post #1443 of 10468
So I have a question about the Denon 3313CI receiver...

I'm about to purchase my first home with my wife.

Doing some research I had wanted to get the Denon 4311CI receiver, but then found out that it is an outdated model and it's fairly expensive. I had planned on most likely getting some Klipsch RF-82 II fronts, RC-62 II center, and RS-62 II for the rears. All of those speakers say they are rated at 150w RMS, which the 4311CI is rated at as well. I didn't really plan on using the 9.2 aspect at all and not even sure if I would go 7.2. Initially I will probably go 5.1 in all honesty.

But now I'm thinking that may be overkill.

I'm now thinking of getting the 3313CI and all the same speakers. If I were to get the 3313CI, would the RF-82 II's be overkill, or would the RF-62 II's be good enough?

Additionally, below is the room that I initially planned on putting the system in. Note the wooden TV stand on the edge of the picture where the current owners have their TV. I planned on keeping that same setup and putting my sound system in there with a TV.

zoX5W.jpg
Vkyw3.jpg

Additionally, there is another basement that basically goes down right around the corner where that TV stand is, that is next to the stairs you see in the pics above. I had planned on making that a non-tv entertainment room, with like a pool table and my arcade game, but now I'm thinking maybe I can fit a TV down there with the sound system as well. Here is a pic of that room, which is noticeably bigger than the one above.

RRWHh.jpg

So I guess what I'm asking is, would the 4311CI with the RF-82 || running 150w RMS be overkill for the size of the first room I showed pics of? How about the 2nd room? My goal is to get my movies to basically sound like going to a movie theatre.

Additionally, would the 3313CI be plenty enough with those speakers, since it puts out 125w RMS and the speakers are rated higher?

Oh and one more thing. I am really interested in the "zones" that you can do with these receivers. I plan on having at least 1 other set of speakers hooked to the receiver other than the system that I explained above. I only want to have it setup for the music portion, so that like I could have the same music playing on 2 different sets of speakers in 2 different rooms. That is all what the whole "zoning" is about, correct?

Sorry for the noobness, I've just been out of this tech for years! Thanks!

EDIT:

I also just realized this is the "owners" thread and I'm not an owner, so if this is in the wrong place just let me know.
post #1444 of 10468
estcstm3 - I need to stop mentioning price...lol. I originally ordered a 2112 from Electronics Expo but they said they stopped carrying it and gave me a free upgrade to the 2113.

Sonicdave - Can you connect to the receiver from a browser window? Usually the app sees my 2113 but I have had to manually enter an ip twice to find it. Luckily i use a static ip.

Purebeast - I can answer about te zones. With zones you can have music playing on two sets of speakers in two rooms, or different sources in each. You can assign one amplifier to power zone 2 or use RCA outs to send the audio to another reciever. It was one of the reasons I ordered a 211x, so I have the main zone in the family room and one 2 on my pack porch. The 3313 If I remember correctly as 3 zones as I was briefly looking at a 3312 earlier in the year.
Edited by Musicman17 - 8/15/12 at 9:59pm
post #1445 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Doing some research I had wanted to get the Denon 4311CI receiver, but then found out that it is an outdated model and it's fairly expensive.

Although 2 years old, the 4311CI isn't missing any major feature the current models have and also is a 9.2 AVR so with a 5.1 setup in the main zone can power 2 additional sets of stereo speakers (ie. Zones 2 and 3) without having to add an external amp (as would be the case with a 3313CI when wanting to add both Zones 2 and 3) and it uses the far more advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32. The 3313CI adds a Zone 2 HDMI output but still only uses Audyssey MultEQ XT. So it boils down to your budget and your needs as the 4311CI wins hands down on better audio fidelity. Also note that unless you specifically need a feature offered by the 3313CI not offered by a lower model, either the 2113CI or 2313CI would also serve you well. You could also save some money by getting one of last year's XX12 "CI" models (2112CI, 2312CI, or 3312CI) as well. Again, just depends on what features/inputs/outputs you need. Review the first few posts in each of the XX12 and XX13 Owner's threads linked in my sig to learn the difference between each model.
Quote:
I had planned on most likely getting some Klipsch RF-82 II fronts, RC-62 II center, and RS-62 II for the rears. All of those speakers say they are rated at 150w RMS, which the 4311CI is rated at as well. I didn't really plan on using the 9.2 aspect at all and not even sure if I would go 7.2. Initially I will probably go 5.1 in all honesty.
But now I'm thinking that may be overkill.
I'm now thinking of getting the 3313CI and all the same speakers. If I were to get the 3313CI, would the RF-82 II's be overkill, or would the RF-62 II's be good enough?

You can ignore the speaker's power rating and also note that as those Klipsch speakers are VERY efficient at 98db, on average the AVR will only be putting out 1-2W/CH let alone anywhere near it's max capacity.
Quote:
Oh and one more thing. I am really interested in the "zones" that you can do with these receivers. I plan on having at least 1 other set of speakers hooked to the receiver other than the system that I explained above. I only want to have it setup for the music portion, so that like I could have the same music playing on 2 different sets of speakers in 2 different rooms. That is all what the whole "zoning" is about, correct?

Correct. Also a Zone 2 setup allows you to play something independent from what is playing in the main zone (eg. movie being watched on the 5.1 setup and Pandora radio being listened to on the Zone 2 speakers. The advantage of the newer XX13 models is that they can play an Airplay source to Zone 2 independently from the main zone (as is the case with other sources to Zone 2), whereas, the XX12 models, for Airplay only sources, are restricted to playing the same Airplay source in both main and Zone 2 when listening in Zone 2. Note, however, that unless the Zone 2 HDMI (3313CI only) is used to pass HDMI audio/video to another TV or AVR, you must also connect an analog (red/white) cable from any source you want to pass to Zone 2 (ie. in addition to the HDMI cable for the main zone). Note also that the 33XXCI models include a Zone 3 capability so the above Zone 2 limitations also apply to Zone 3.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M

Quote:
I also just realized this is the "owners" thread and I'm not an owner, so if this is in the wrong place just let me know.

The thread is for questions regarding the XX13 models in general, so you're fine posting here. smile.gif
Edited by jdsmoothie - 8/16/12 at 4:32am
post #1446 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

But now I'm thinking that may be overkill.

I'm now thinking of getting the 3313CI and all the same speakers. If I were to get the 3313CI, would the RF-82 II's be overkill, or would the RF-62 II's be good enough?

So I guess what I'm asking is, would the 4311CI with the RF-82 || running 150w RMS be overkill for the size of the first room I showed pics of? How about the 2nd room? My goal is to get my movies to basically sound like going to a movie theatre.

I think your thinking about "overkill" is a little misguided. It's not like you move from one receiver to the next model up/down and all of a sudden your speakers become "overkill" so you should step down the speaker model as well. The speaker choice (outside of a few basic parameters like sensitivity rating and impedance to ensure basic compatibility) is largely independent of your receiver choice, it's more about (1) the size of your room and (2) the goals you are trying to achieve.

As long as the receiver has enough power to achieve the volumes you want -- and as JD noted one of the benefits of Klipsh speakers is that they are extremely sensitive, which is one reason they are so popular for HT -- the receiver decision becomes about features. And as others will agree the 4311ci is nowhere near outdated, it's still one of the most feature packed receivers out there even after 2 years. Considering your goal of making your movies sound like the theater, the 4311ci will actually be a great choice because of the state-of-the-art MultEQ XT32 room calibration. I would also encourage you to go with dual subs, even if you only run a 5ch setup to start the second sub will create smoother bass and enhance that "at the movie theater" feel, and the 4311ci has special dual sub calibration software to boot.

So, bottom line, if you can afford the incremental expense, the 4311ci is still a great value (call around and you may be suprised about the current pricing too). The 33xx level is no slouch, but the XT32 is the real deal, plus the dual sub calibration and the potential to expand to 7, 9, or even 11 channels if you want to go whole hog in the basement theater.

However, if the budget is more inflexible, and the incremental expense on the receiver is going to force you to buy a weaker subwoofer or inferior speakers, then I would advise you to go the other direction. You can grab a used/refurb 3312ci for around $600 these days, and if the savings allows you to get a nicer speaker/sub setup then you will end up with a better result.

So like all things, it's about how much you are really willing to spend to achieve your goals wink.gif

So..... back to the choice of room and how it impacts speakers decisions. The first thing you should know is that bigger spaces = more SPL required = more money. It will be a LOT cheaper to achieve reference level movie sound with a 5.2 setup in the first room. Specifically, the subwoofage required to pressurize that cavernous basement will far exceed what is required in the 1st room.

That said, if you are viewing this as a long-term project to create a really theater-like home theater, it it were ME.... I would eventually want to make the basement the "master" HT. With a projector screen (100"+), at least seven channels, monster subwoofer system, nice lounge seating.... in a space that large you can easily find a creative way to have a nice theater without sacrificing the pool table or whatever. So I would probably go with a "good enough" system in the 1st room, and start saving / building for the monster theater in the basement.
post #1447 of 10468
^^^t

agree a lot with the last paragraph... i'd forget room 1 even existed...

i started salivating when i saw the pic of that big empty basement... redface.gif that would be where i would put ALL of my entertainment dollars, even if i had to live with non reference level bass for a period of time (the immersion of a projector vs. a tv will make up for that for awhile... tongue.gif )....

that space could easily be set up as a wicked nice room.... there would appear to be plenty of space for front projection without sacrificing the pool table... i can see a couple pinball machines in there too... smile.gif

edit: i also agree a lot with the rest of the post.... smile.gif the 4311 is worth the scratch, ASSUMING it does not eat into the speaker/sub budget...
post #1448 of 10468
Thread Starter 
and if you do decide to go with the "go big in the basement" plan, you can get a "good enough" system in the living room for not that much scratch, it's not that big of a room. Spend ~$300-400 on a decent AVR with MultEQ XT (1713 or 2113ci for example), go to Newegg and grab an Energy S10.3 sub (or two) for $199 shipped, and then spend whatever you feel comfortable with on five speakers. That will still be a dynamite living room setup, even if it's not true "sounds just like a movie theater" sound, and hold you over for a while as you build out the master rig in the basement.
post #1449 of 10468
Thanks for the replies guys. I am still at work and going to read them in more depth again when I get home, but I'm glad to hear about the 4311ci because that was one that I really wanted initially.

One of the main draws against it is the retail price I see it for sale at the retail price around $2100 pretty much.

The 3313 is like $1200 which is significantly less, and I wasn't sure if the $900 is really worth the extra. I will definitely have to do some more research.

2 more quick questions...

1. What are "good" prices for the 4311ci that I could look around for? You mentioned that I'd be surprised at the price some places sell it for, but the cheapest I saw it was for just under $1400 I think, which is pretty good it seems.

2. What are some of these dual sub setups you mention as being very movie theatre like? The subs is an area I haven't even looked into at all and have no clue about the price that I will be looking to spend on a sub, let alone a dual sub.

I guess I should bring question #1 into the 4311 owners thread though heh.
post #1450 of 10468
Thread Starter 
to get the best pricing on Denon AVR's you have to CALL the authorized dealers (AVS, Electronics-Expo, J&R, Vanns, etc). Street price for the 4311ci has been in the $1200-1300 range for a while now.

I'm not even sure what you are asking in the second question. It's a general principle of acoustics however that having more than one subwoofer will help smooth out the dips and peaks you get due to room interactions (literally the bass waves bouncing around the room and either cancelling each other out or reinforcing at certain spots in the room). "Dual subs" literally means two individual subwoofers, it's not "a dual sub" like it's a separate TYPE of subwoofer.

You didn't provide dimensions but for a basement that size you will need a LOT of subwoofer to pressurize the space. If you posted that photo in the subwoofer forum people would be all moist thinking about the thousands of $$$ you would need to spend tongue.gif I think most would agree that the minimum you would need for that basement would be two $1000 class subs if you really want to get it rocking like a movie theater (like two of these HSU VTF-15H). If you are handy you can save a lot of money building DIY subs, something like a big infinite baffle array with four 15" drivers should do the trick. I am not a DIY expert so I don't know how much that would actually cost.

For the living room getting two S10.3's from Newegg ($400 total shipped) will be sufficient, although you could certainly spend quite a bit more if you are a real bass-head and want to plumb the depths of modern action movie LFE. If so I would budget $1000 for the living room (like two of these guys).
post #1451 of 10468
^^^

re: subwoofage... oh yea... i'm thinking a pair of submersive hp's, and 4 would be even better... tongue.gif

until then though, he could always supplement the real low end with buttkickers... smile.gif

nice idea on the "room 1 setup"...

op... how much money can we spend, total? and what are the dimensions of the basement?
post #1452 of 10468
I think I am getting a little ahead of myself now lol.

I don't have the exact measurements. We don't close until the 29th of this month. I will have to take measurements when I get the chance after then.

I was just trying to begin my research now.

Additionally, I am someone who likes to try and "future proof" sometimes if possible, which is why I was looking at the 4311 initially. I know it's overkill for what I really NEED, but since it has that awesome setup that you all mentioned, maybe I will look into it.

$1200 is definitely what I would be willing to spend for a receiver. Do you all have any techniques when calling around these places to get the best prices? Or are they hard set with the prices they are asking?

I think if I were to get the receiver now, then I could decide on the subs/speakers afterwards once I can do measurements and what not.

As far as budget goes, I had planned on piecing together the system in my original post over a couple months, which was a lot of the Klipsch Reference || series.

I haven't heard them personally, but I've read reviews and been recommended from quite a few people. I do need to find a local A/V store though to try and test out the speakers in person. But again, I'm just beginning my research right now and trying to get a jump start on it smile.gif
post #1453 of 10468
I like the looks of the Energy S10.3 that Batpig pointed out. I have an Energy eXL 10" already. Would it work to use a Y cable to hook to hook up to subs to the single sub output on the 2113? I know it's preferable to have two of the same subs.

I know when I ran the speaker setup when my 2113 arrived, the subwoofer emitted a quieter tone, then raised the volume and tried again. I am also curious since the setup said to set the volume at 50% if that is affecting my sound some. It's seems to be lacking on the low end from compared to my Onkyo. Of course I know I had the volume on the sub higher than 50%.
post #1454 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I like the looks of the Energy S10.3 that Batpig pointed out. I have an Energy eXL 10" already. Would it work to use a Y cable to hook to hook up to subs to the single sub output on the 2113? I know it's preferable to have two of the same subs.

yes, you can just hook them up with a Y-cable. The S10.3 is essentially just a newer version of your eXL-S10, just two generations newer. It should be slightly better overall but not different enough that it will cause an issue with calibration.

Quote:
I know when I ran the speaker setup when my 2113 arrived, the subwoofer emitted a quieter tone, then raised the volume and tried again.

if that happened it's because Audyssey detected too much ambient noise and had to re-do the speaker test with a louder tone to better a better signal/noise ratio for measurements.

Quote:
I am also curious since the setup said to set the volume at 50% if that is affecting my sound some. It's seems to be lacking on the low end from compared to my Onkyo. Of course I know I had the volume on the sub higher than 50%.

all that matters is that you got a final calibrated channel level that isn't "maxed out" at +/- 12dB. You also want to review the Audyssey FAQ/101 linked in JD's signature as well as my Audyssey FAQ. Have you done the standard procedure of making sure all speakers are set to SMALL with at minimum an 80Hz crossover to ensure bass is getting to the subwoofer?
post #1455 of 10468
In setting up my 2113 with Audyssey I first set he volume on my subwoofer at 50%. The result was too much bass frequency and looking at the AVR setting for sub-woofer level it had been put at minimum, -12dB. I have re-run the set-up with the sub at 25%. Bass better but still set by Audyssy at -12. I then set the fronts as small and a X over of 80dB but the bass was then far too prominant, so I am using X over of 60dB and have set the sub level through AVR at -10dB.

Do you think I should be running the set-up again with the sub turned down lower so that Audyssy sets the level in the AVR closer to 0dB?

David
post #1456 of 10468
Thank you Batpig and Jdsmoothie for all that you've done and do.

I finally found some time to do some reading. Although I read some before I could get the 2313 installed, there was still so much more to learn. The manual on cd tends to make me sleepy and I get off track with the links and other things. I found the Denon aids that you guys put together so much more helpful and easier to navigate without getting lost.

I had to send the S10.3 back and the Yamaha is in its place until I can make a decision about buying another. I finally ran Audyssey using all 8 positions after calculating the subwoofer 4 times to get the number to land in between -3 and 3. I ended up with -1.5. Turning the volume knob to it's half position was way too much and it now sits at about 1/3.

War of the Worlds was my test material and it is amazing, thanks to the Denon and Batpig's suggestion to move the Infinity 150s to the back. I also think the P363s work well with the Yamaha SW216, just as well as the SW10.3 when it worked.

However, I still have far to go. Thank you guys.
post #1457 of 10468
I scored a Denon AVR2113CI from Best Buy today to replace my AVR1909.

I brought in a print out from Paul's TV with the 20% coupon applied and they matched the final price of $519.99.
It surprised me a little - they matched it without any questions. I really thought I would have to fight for them to match it.

In case anyone's interested, paulstv.com has their 20% off coupon code good until 08-18 midnight (Promotional code PAUL20)
20% off Speakers, Subwoofers, Receivers and Home Theaters Systems and Free Shipping.
post #1458 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidBulluss View Post

In setting up my 2113 with Audyssey I first set he volume on my subwoofer at 50%. The result was too much bass frequency and looking at the AVR setting for sub-woofer level it had been put at minimum, -12dB. I have re-run the set-up with the sub at 25%. Bass better but still set by Audyssy at -12. I then set the fronts as small and a X over of 80dB but the bass was then far too prominant, so I am using X over of 60dB and have set the sub level through AVR at -10dB.
Do you think I should be running the set-up again with the sub turned down lower so that Audyssy sets the level in the AVR closer to 0dB?
David

Yup. You likely have a very efficient sub. So either relocate the sub away from a corner/wall or lower the sub volume to near minimum and rerun AUTO SETUP.
post #1459 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by danmtx View Post

I scored a Denon AVR2113CI from Best Buy today to replace my AVR1909.
I brought in a print out from Paul's TV with the 20% coupon applied and they matched the final price of $519.99.
It surprised me a little - they matched it without any questions. I really thought I would have to fight for them to match it.
In case anyone's interested, paulstv.com has their 20% off coupon code good until 08-18 midnight (Promotional code PAUL20)
20% off Speakers, Subwoofers, Receivers and Home Theaters Systems and Free Shipping.

Thanks for the info. Note however, that Best Buy generally only matches other resellers when they have B&M stores in the same local area. Also Electronics Expo can likely beat that price by at least $50 or so.
post #1460 of 10468
Yeah, I think you are right. I will set it up again this arvo for our Friday night movie!

Out of interest the sub is a Krix Seismix 7 http://www.krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=44&id=13 and I have had it for a few years now.

David
post #1461 of 10468
Thanks for the reply jd,

I've tried switching to other HDMI inputs and it still seems to happen. I haven't tried turning the "deep color" setting off on the blu-ray, I'll try that when I get home. Although, I know that my DVD doesn't have any deep color setting option and it's cutting out on that input too. Anyone else experiencing this? Thanks.
post #1462 of 10468
@David ...

Nice sub to be sure. cool.gif

You may also want to consider adding a 12db in-line attenuator such as the below (provided for example only).

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=266-244
post #1463 of 10468
Danmtx, here in Australia the best that I could do from a dealer that I trust (not grey import from Hong Kong with dubious or no warranty) was A$899 for the 2113; and our dollar is worth more than yours!!!! tongue.gif

David
Edited by DavidBulluss - 8/16/12 at 7:33pm
post #1464 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyBoyGomes View Post

Thanks for the reply jd,
I've tried switching to other HDMI inputs and it still seems to happen. I haven't tried turning the "deep color" setting off on the blu-ray, I'll try that when I get home. Although, I know that my DVD doesn't have any deep color setting option and it's cutting out on that input too. Anyone else experiencing this? Thanks.

Also try setting the "Video Conversion" setting (p. 107 OM) to OFF as well. What model DVD and BDP are you using?
post #1465 of 10468
Hello all

I'm new around here and new to the specialized AVR world so don't have the knowledge you guys seem to have!
Just bought my first Denon AVR-1913 along with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS 5.1. Have been reading quite a lot for several weeks before deciding and matching the budget to take that decision. I hope I did the right one. I really want to enjoy proper movie's sound and listen to music to the best. BTW: I live Colombia, but the AVR was imported from US so it should be a US model.

I'd like to hear from you guys if have experience with the same or similar setup and hear any advice you guys could give me. The AVR is located in a small room in an attic and is used mostly for TV and movies watching, but of course music videos or just music is definitely a new "function".

I'm in the process of setting up the whole thing. Starting to measure and cut the wires and open the holes for the speakers, so any advice at this point is appreciate. I've been reading a lot of crossover, polarity, bi-amp, A/B, etc, but still feel lost!

Also, I have been having a doubt about the upscaling function. I have a satelite STB from DirecTV. It will be connected through the HDMI to the AVR. Here in my country there are still quite a lot of SD TV channels, so I was wondering whether the AVR would upscale that signal to 1080 or not, depending on the channel resolution. To be honest that was one of the points I consider to buy this model, but haven't found much information about it. Does anyone know or have experience with that?

Well, that's all for now. But I'm sure I will be around making a lot of questions and taking advantage of the knowledge!
post #1466 of 10468
You can learn more about the Audyssey setup by reviewing the Audyssey Setup Guide linked in my sig. Ignore the bi-amp feature as it will provide no real benefit. And whether using the 1913 to upscale a SD channel to 1080p provides a better quality picture than bypassing the AVR really depends on whether your TV does a better job than the video chip in the 1913. So try it both ways and decide for yourself.
post #1467 of 10468
Hey guys,

Got my Denon 2113 yesterday and its my first Denon product. My problems began, when and update notice appeared on my screen. I began to update, and it was going fine undtil the update reached "GUI : 1 min." Then it suddently loops back to 3 minutes. I figure out, that given time would solve the problem. 8 hours later it still loops from 1 to 3 minutes. After calling the retailer, I was suggested that reseting the micro processor by holding preset + - while turning the AVR on. The AVR starts up again and begins automatically to "update retry". Going from 22 min to 1 min and loops back to 3. Now it has been doing so for the last 3 hours.

Any suggestions on what Im doing wrong?

Thanks in advance.
post #1468 of 10468
^^Try and bypass the router. Connect directly through the modem and update from there.
post #1469 of 10468
Plugged it right into the modem, but it didnt work either.

AVR just been looping back from 1 minute to 3 minute and continue to do so 4 times so far.
post #1470 of 10468
Do a hard-reset one more time, try it again and see what happens.
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