The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 60

Tom - have you run Audyssey to calibrate the speakers?

If you want to check channel levels and adjust volumes for individual speakers you can do it in Speakers > Manual Setup > Levels.

AVR 2113ci Review!

Part 1 - Unboxing and Hook-up

Link to Part 2 (Setup and Basic Use)
Link to Part 3 (AirPlay, networking and iPhone app control)
Link to Part 4 (Audyssey calibration and Sound Quality)

All - It was finally time to update, the 2310ci is still going strong but I wanted to get a Network / Airplay enabled unit, plus jump to MultEQ XT. Plus of course it is good to have some hands-on experience with new units to help you guys troubleshoot and update my setup guide!

My 2113ci arrived from Electronics Expo today. Shipping was fast and free and the customer service was great, and E-E made me feel good about having endorsed them as the best source for Denon AVR's for quite some time now. I may end up swapping up to the 2313ci, but I wanted to try out the 21xx level first since that's been our semi-official "best buy" since its introduction last year in the xx12 lineup.

The package was nicely double-boxed to prevent damage. I had my camera handy since I'd been snapping photos of the batpiglet most of the day, so I'll indulge you all some box-opening porn and some comparison shots with the outgoing 2310ci.


Double Boxed from Electronics Expo






Next it was time to dig behind the 2310ci and start dodging dust bunnies and unplug all the old cables. I pulled the 2310ci out of the a/v console and took a few comparison snapshots so you can see the change in aesthetics between the xx10 and xx13 "CI" models:


2310ci vs. 2113ci






Personally, I dig the new aesthetics. Having them together in person, the 2310ci has a beefier, more "industrial" feel but the 2113ci looks sleeker and more modern. Not that aesthetics are a big factor for me though, considering it will live behind closed doors in my a/v console.

As you can see the new 2113 (as do all the lower models) has a new, shallower chassis design. Width is the same, height is essentially the same (4mm difference) but the 2113ci is almost 2" shallower. It is also about 4lbs lighter (25lbs down to 21lbs), but build quality feels the same. I'm not one to fret about the size/weight of my electronics gear, all I care about is performance, so as far as I'm concerned I'm fine with the lighter unit and the extra room in my console. As I note in the comparisons at the beginning of this thread, the 2313/3313 are built on a deeper chassis, so if you do care about that kind of stuff then stepping up is a good idea. The 2313ci is almost the same weight as my 2310ci (just under 1 lb lighter).


2310ci vs. 2113ci - back panel comparison



Moving around to the back panel, you can see that the lower level and 3 gens newer 2113ci has a significantly more stripped down input/output layout. Some will applaud this, some will wail about the great injustice done to their S-video equipped LaserDisc unit. While, all things equal, I wouldn't mind the extra connectivity options, the bottom line is the 2113ci has everything I actually NEED. All of my devices are HDMI at this point, I need a couple of analog connections to pipe audio to Zone 2, maybe a component video input, and, uh.... that's it really.

Examining the back panel, you can see change three generations brings -- the loss of the EXT IN multichannel analog inputs, the PHONO input, S-video inputs, 1 each component video input & output, two SPDIF inputs (1 each optical/coax), the two switched AC outputs, and a few composite audio/video inputs. However, I don't use a single one of these, personally.... stepping up to the 2313ci model will (as I discuss in the model comparisons at the beginning of this thread) restore much of the additional connectivity. However, on a practical level the 2113ci has more than enough inputs for the typical contemporary HT setup, where most devices use HDMI and you *maybe* need a couple of analog inputs for Zone 2.

What the 2113ci gives back in exchange includes the front-panel HDMI and USB inputs, and of course the networking. But I'll get back to that in a bit....

Hook-up was straightforward, but of course it would be embarrassing if batpig had trouble hooking up a Denon receiver right? I went with the straightforward setup plugging into the default names, so my PS3 is "Game", my Roku box is "Media Player", my HD-DVD player is "DVD", my Blu-ray player is, well, "Blu-Ray'. The only odd duck was my Mac Mini, which gets to live with "Cable/Sat" since I don't have a cable box. But of course always keep in mind that all inputs can be reassigned and renamed as needed.



Continue to Part 2 (Setup and Basic Use)
Jump ahead to Part 3 (AirPlay, networking and iPhone app control)
Jump ahead to Part 4 (Audyssey calibration and Sound Quality)

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Edited by batpig - 9/5/12 at 4:47pm

Part 2 - Setup and Use

Back to Part 1 (Setup and Basic Use)
Link to Part 3 (AirPlay, networking and iPhone app control)
Link to Part 4 (Audyssey calibration and Sound Quality)

It's late at night right now and Mrs. Batpig and the Batpiglet are asleep, so no Audyssey bonks and chirps are on the menu tonight. But of course that didn't stop me from turning the unit on and playing around!

Having never used a model newer than the xx11 generation, I was a bit surprised to be greeted by the new Setup Assistant upon booting up the unit and selecting English as my language. Photo below, excuse the horrendous lighting:




I decided to humor Mr. Setup Assistant in as non-patronizing a way as possible and let him hold my hand and walk me through the basics (uh-huh mister "assitant", you do know I'm batpig right?). All kidding aside, I think this Assistant is a real boon for neophyte AVR users. It walks you through the hookup of all speaker connections and devices, running Audyssey (which I skipped for now), setting up your network, etc. You can of course modify everything later on in the Setup menus, but this is a great way for the novice to get up and running quickly.

I was quite pleased when the network section of the Setup Assistant connected with zero issues. At this point I have everything left on DHCP and network is flowing with zero hiccups. I tried a few local internet radio stations as a quick test and all dandy. It is worth noting that my router is in my a/v console so I was able to make a direct ethernet connection.

Next I went through and switched among the various inputs to confirm correct input assignments as well as no HDMI handshake issues. All of my devices worked on the first go, so Mr. Wizard did fine with the setup and HDMI handshakes are firm and confident all around. Once again, not having a cable box, I wasn't expecting any handshake problems but it's always nice when things go smoothly on the first try!

Then I spent some time futzing in the menus, doing a quick manual level calibration by ear, changing front speakers to "small" from the default large, and just exploring the menus. I have to say, the new GUI is much quicker and more responsive to navigate than that on my 2310ci. I also think the layout is much more logical, although as with all things Denon it's not going to be 100% intuitive. Not everyone can be Google or Apple though in terms of user interface design

Finally, I was anxious to try AirPlay, one of the primary reasons I was anxious to upgrade to a newer unit. I opened up the iPhone, fired up some LCD Soundsystem, and sure enough the AirPlay icon appeared instantly:



I intentionally had the receiver playing a different network stream (internet radio) to see what would happen, and sure enough the receiver went silent for a couple of seconds, then the music was cranking and AirPlay hijack was complete. Pretty cool!!

I was happy to see that the AirPlay function not only displayed the album art on my TV screen, but also showed the song title on the front panel display of the Denon itself:






As we've noted before, the AirPlay volume is linked with receiver volume, so when you adjust the volume on the receiver you can see the volume slider on the iPhone move, and correspondingly when I adjust the iPhone volume (whether using the slider or the side volume buttons) I can see the Denon volume change. Pretty slick!

Next I did some further AirPlay testing. First, I turned the unit off, then fired up AirPlay on my iPhone and boom! the receiver auto-magically turned itself on and start pumping tunes again. This is something I was really looking forward too. I know it is plumbing the depths of laziness to not want to pick up my Harmony remote from the cradle to turn on the system to start playing music, but being able to just fire up music without having to touch anything beyond pulling the iPhone out of my pocket is just awesome.

Finally, I tested AirPlay to Zone 2 functionality. On the setup side, I did nothing but leave the receiver on the default Zone 2 amp assignment and I was pleased to find that my backyard speakers fired right up when I turned on Zone 2. AirPlay and Internet Radio played in the backyard as expected. Then, I went ahead and changed Zone 2 to my PS3 input, and confirmed that the AirPlay stream continued playing outside. I could change tracks in the backyard without re-hijacking the main zone, so AirPlay independent audio to Zone 2 works as advertised (although note that upon firing up AirPlay initially you will get a full receiver "hijack", but once the stream is active you can switch Main Zone to another input).

The one quirky thing about AirPlay to Zone 2 is that the volume linkage no longer works. Since Zone 2 has an independent volume control, changing the AirPlay volume on my iPhone does NOT affect the volume on the Zone 2 speakers. However, the volume is STILL linked to Main Zone, even though the source is now PS3. So pressing the volume buttons on the iPhone will change the volume on the Denon, even though the AirPlay is playing in Zone 2 and not Main Zone. Weird!

Bottom line though -- AirPlay was slick and easy and works as advertised. I'm a happy camper. Tomorrow I will have two goals: (1) run Audyssey and run it through some real audio material, and (2) play with the iPhone app and network control.


Back to Part 1 (Setup and Basic Use)
Link to Part 3 (AirPlay, networking and iPhone app control)
Link to Part 4 (Audyssey calibration and Sound Quality)
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Edited by batpig - 9/5/12 at 4:46pm

one more follow-up note.... I haven't programmed the new receiver into the Harmony One yet, but I spend some time with the old Denon AVR device seeing what commands still work on the new models. As I suspected, the new buttons (like Movie/Music surround buttons, the new Info button, etc) do NOT work on the older 2310ci.

however, several old commands still work on the new units. I was especially interested in some of the discrete and custom codes I had, and it looks like the following still work:

- Volume up/down
- Power on/off and Zone 2 on/off
- Dimmer (for front panel display dimmer control)
- Speaker A/B (although it says "Not available" since I don't have "B" speaker assigned)
- The Setup Menu button
- An old discrete I have which takes you directly into the Surround Parameter menu
- Discrete channel volume commands (Sub up/down and center channel up/down)
- Discete "Restorer" button and Audyssey commands
- Interestingly, while the new surround mode buttons do not work on the old model, the old surround mode buttons DO work on the new model. The D/ST button still toggles between Direct and Stereo, the DSP SIMU button cycles between the silly DSP modes, the Standard button toggles between all the various PLII and DTS Neo modes, the Cinema button toggles between DTS Neo and PLII Cinema modes, etc.

a few key commands which were removed from the newer remote do NOT work anymore on the new receiver:

- CH Level button
- Source Select button
- Input Mode button

The "Dialogue Level" setting IS the center channel volume setting. They are one and the same. I suspected this was the case but can now confirm it.

When you open the GUI and go to AUDIO settings, right after Surround Parameter and Tone there is both a "Dialogue Level" and a "Subwoofer Level" setting. In the Dialogue Level menu the description at the bottom says "Adjusts the center channel volume, making movie dialogue easier to hear." I confirmed by using the Center Ch Vol up/down discrete commands on my Harmony remote -- I adjusted the center ch volume directly, then opened up the GUI and checked the "Dialogue Level" setting and the number had changed to match what the center ch volume had changed to.

My suspicion is that "Dialogue Level" and "Subwoofer Level" setting were put in the AUDIO menu as an alternative now that the CH LEVEL button is gone from the remote. Since (1) the only way to adjust channel levels is by firing up the loud obnoxious test tones and (2) the only channel levels most people actually care to tweak normally are the center channel (dialogue) and subwoofer (bass level), I bet Denon just decided this was a more practical way to implement it.... give the user just enough freedom to tweak the stuff they care about (dialogue volume and sub level) without letting them screw up the global channel levels on the other channels without digging deeper.

in terms of channel levels, as best I can tell this is how it works (note that I haven't run Audyssey yet so I can't comment on the behavior of the "Restore" function yet vis a vis channel levels and different surround modes):

1. Going into the SPEAKERS menu, then Manual Setup > Levels is the only way to globally change all the speaker volumes (as noted above the Center Channel and Subwoofer volumes can be accessed and changed in the AUDIO menu for on-the-fly tweaks).

2. Changing the speaker volumes in the LEVELS menu will reset all the levels globally. That means if you made individual tweaks to a particular surround mode (e.g. multich stereo) they will be wiped out and reset back to the whatever you set in the LEVELS menu.

3. So essentially the LEVELS menu sets the "baseline" from which you can tweak. From there, it appears that channel level volumes are shared globally for all Dolby/DTS surround modes. However, you CAN set independent channel volumes for other types of surround modes, for example STEREO vs. MULTICH STEREO vs. any of the DSP modes (Jazz Hall, Mono Movie, Virtual, etc). EDIT - it also looks like MULTICH IN can have separate levels from the Dolby/DTS surround modes, and DIRECT modes are separate as well.

For example, I put on some music and tweaked the sub ch volume separately for MultiCH Stereo, regular Stereo, and PLII Music / DTS Neo Music. Then I fired up a Netflix stream with Dolby Digital Plus, and the sub volume was the same as I had it for PLII Music. I tweaked the sub volume for Dolby Digital Plus, and then went back to streaming music and the sub volume change carried over to the PLII and DTS Neo modes, but did not carry over for MultiCH Stereo or regular Stereo, Jazz Hall, Virtual, etc.

Since there isn't really a way to adjust anything but the center and the sub without resetting the ch volumes globally (via the LEVELS menu), it appears that in practical usage (unless you have a universal with discrete codes) the independence of channel levels for different surround modes extends only to the Dialogue Level (Center ch) and Subwoofer Level settings.

It also appears that ch levels are shared across inputs.


Quick and Dirty Summary of Ch Level behavior:

1. The LEVELS menu (Speakers > Manual Setup) will reset ch levels globally for ALL surround modes -- after you make tweaks with the test tones and hit "Enter" to finish, this establishes the new baseline for all surround mdoes

2. From that baseline, you can tweak Center Ch (Dialogue Level) and Sub Volume independently for any surround mode, using the AUDIO menu. Note the caveat that all Dolby & DTS modes share common surround levels, however the levels can be independent for any other mode (MultCH Stereo, Multi CH IN, Stereo, Direct, Virtual, etc).
Edited by batpig - 9/2/12 at 2:26pm