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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 73

post #2161 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by malmstump View Post

.hey guys can the 3313 passthrough picture and sound when avr is off?

Yes. HDMI Control (ON), Standby Source (as appropriate). p. 121 OM
post #2162 of 10468
Denon 2113: Ran Audyssey and it set speakers to Large, and rear speakers crossover to 200hz. How do I change them to small and the crossover levels to 80.

Thanks!
post #2163 of 10468
Speakers - Manual Setup - Speaker Config - Front - SMALL (p. 119 OM)

Crossovers - 80hz

Do not change any crossovers set > 80hz, rather leave as set.

Also, review the Audyssey 101/FAQ guide linked in my sig for more helpful information.
post #2164 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Speakers - Manual Setup - Speaker Config - Front - SMALL (p. 119 OM)
Crossovers - 80hz
Do not change any crossovers set > 80hz, rather leave as set.
Also, review the Audyssey 101/FAQ guide linked in my sig for more helpful information.

JDSmoothie,

Thanks. Just so I understand. If audyssey sets any of the crossovers at grater than 80 then leave them as set, and only change anything below 80 to 80. Is this correct?
post #2165 of 10468
Correct. smile.gif
post #2166 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

The only major difference is the the sub you have in your bedroom, which I don't bother with. That said, I would think you could find some sort of crossover or what not that would take the zone 2 line-level outputs and send them to the sub.
The thing you have to remember is that the audio section of zone 2 can only handle analog inputs, so your Ceton extender must have analog audio outputs in order to drive the speakers. If the extender only outputs HDMI, then you will have a problem. This is the primary reason why I'm looking at pressing my old AVR-888 back into service for zone 2.

Ah hah! Now I finally understand the deficiency. I guess I was concentrating so much on output options from the 3313, that I never considered that input could be the problem for the second zone.

To me, this is *the* deal breaker. I guess I'll hold out a bit longer for an AV receiver that can actually provide the last step to make multizone video a real feature. To my understanding, this doesn't exist yet at any price point?

BTW, thanks for being so patient in explaining it to me. I finally feel like I understand what I'm looking for, and why the 3313 is not an option.
post #2167 of 10468
I want to buy a 1613 but I have a question about it. The specifications of this receiver states that "The AVR-1613 supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio decoding for Blu-ray". When I looked at the manual online I saw on page122 (Trademark Information) the logo DTS-HD but there's not DTS-HD Master Audio logo. I then looked the manual of the 1913 and in it are both logos. So, is the 1613 capable of decoding DTS-HD master audio or not? and if it is capable can the 1613 decode it totally/faithfully from a blu-ray or with some limitations?. My ther option is the yamaha RX-V473 but when I look at the manual of this receiver it was the same situation: No DTS-HD Master Audio logo. The next model RX-V573 has in its manual both logos.
The yamaha web site states for the 473 that "DTS-HD® featured products have the ability to decode all streams required for DTS-HD Master Audio™ but may have limitations in channel output and/or sampling frequency; or may utilize unique post processing" and for the 573 that "DTS-HD Master Audio delivers sound quality that matches the clear and vivid images of high-definition video. Blu-ray and HD-DVD discs deliver five times the video resolution of standard DVD and produce images with stunning realism. But that's only half of the story. You need incredible sound to complete the high definition experience and DTS-HD Master Audio provides the highest quality multi-channel sound possible. Movies come alive with sound as lifelike as the picture and music becomes as real as a live performance".
Right now I have a 5 years old sony receiver that decodes Linear PCM 5.1, and I want to know if the 1613 will give the same quality for decoding Master audio or should I buy the denon 1913/1912 for perfect decoding of this lossless audio codec. I am confused if there´s a crucial difference in quality and depth between the decoding of receivers with only DTS-HD audio decoding and receivers with both DTS-HD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding?.
post #2168 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relleum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

The only major difference is the the sub you have in your bedroom, which I don't bother with. That said, I would think you could find some sort of crossover or what not that would take the zone 2 line-level outputs and send them to the sub.
The thing you have to remember is that the audio section of zone 2 can only handle analog inputs, so your Ceton extender must have analog audio outputs in order to drive the speakers. If the extender only outputs HDMI, then you will have a problem. This is the primary reason why I'm looking at pressing my old AVR-888 back into service for zone 2.

Ah hah! Now I finally understand the deficiency. I guess I was concentrating so much on output options from the 3313, that I never considered that input could be the problem for the second zone.

To me, this is *the* deal breaker. I guess I'll hold out a bit longer for an AV receiver that can actually provide the last step to make multizone video a real feature. To my understanding, this doesn't exist yet at any price point?

BTW, thanks for being so patient in explaining it to me. I finally feel like I understand what I'm looking for, and why the 3313 is not an option.

Actually, after reading your prior post I think it will work IF you are willing to add a second, inexpensive HDMI receiver to the bedroom to power the speakers/sub.

If you do this, you can run the HDMI Zone 2 output to the secondary receiver, which will power the 2.1 speakers in the bedroom with full audio processing + bass management. Then you can select any of your HDMI sources to display in either the bedroom or the main room.

The major hurdle here is that the "traditional" zone 2 output (analog / network audio sources powered by the extra two internal amps of the receiver) is not really aligned with the HDMI Zone 2 (matrix switch) function. They are both "zone 2" but they are kind of different applications. Once you get this, and then accept that you can use the 3313ci as the "matrix switch" for your HDMI sources... and then by freeing it from the responsibility of powering the 2.1 setup in the bedroom you will be good to go. The 2nd AVR needn't be fancy or expensive, just has to be able to accept an HDMI audio/video input.

IMO this is the most logical option.
post #2169 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fegam2 View Post

So, is the 1613 capable of decoding DTS-HD master audio or not?

yes it is, pretty much all HDMI receivers have been able to do this for years.

Quote:
and if it is capable can the 1613 decode it totally/faithfully from a blu-ray or with some limitations?.

no limitations smile.gif
post #2170 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by fegam2 View Post

I want to buy a 1613 but I have a question about it. The specifications of this receiver states that "The AVR-1613 supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio decoding for Blu-ray". When I looked at the manual online I saw on page122 (Trademark Information) the logo DTS-HD but there's not DTS-HD Master Audio logo?.

All Denon AVRs going back the past 3-4 years can decode all the HD audio codecs.
post #2171 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Actually, after reading your prior post I think it will work IF you are willing to add a second, inexpensive HDMI receiver to the bedroom to power the speakers/sub.
If you do this, you can run the HDMI Zone 2 output to the secondary receiver, which will power the 2.1 speakers in the bedroom with full audio processing + bass management. Then you can select any of your HDMI sources to display in either the bedroom or the main room.
The major hurdle here is that the "traditional" zone 2 output (analog / network audio sources powered by the extra two internal amps of the receiver) is not really aligned with the HDMI Zone 2 (matrix switch) function. They are both "zone 2" but they are kind of different applications. Once you get this, and then accept that you can use the 3313ci as the "matrix switch" for your HDMI sources... and then by freeing it from the responsibility of powering the 2.1 setup in the bedroom you will be good to go. The 2nd AVR needn't be fancy or expensive, just has to be able to accept an HDMI audio/video input.
IMO this is the most logical option.

I think this breaks at least 1 of 2 very stubborn requirements I have:
  1. No equipment in rooms, besides tv, remote, hdmi extender (and speakers, of course)
  2. Keep it simple, with minimum AV receivers (especially when manufacturers are so close to making multizone complete)
I literally built my new home with the goal of having the entertainment completely decoupled from the non-critical equipment. After all of my money and planning, the idea of throwing a giant receiver in the bedroom really sickens me. I could keep the second receiver in the closet, which would be the better compromise, but I still run into the negatives I've already mentioned about having two.
post #2172 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relleum View Post

I think this breaks at least 1 of 2 very stubborn requirements I have:
  1. No equipment in rooms, besides tv, remote, hdmi extender (and speakers, of course)
  2. Keep it simple, with minimum AV receivers (especially when manufacturers are so close to making multizone complete)

It wouldn't need to be a physically large receiver. Receivers in the Marantz NR series are relatively small.
The secondary receiver could be in the same room or cabinet as the main receiver.
There's still the control complexity, though, of having two tiers of switching: source selection by one receiver, with volume control by the other.
post #2173 of 10468
Thread Starter 
the bottom line here is that if you want to distribute a second HDMI signal, you NEED a second HDMI decoder. Period.

An HDMI matrix switch (whether external or the one built into the 3313ci) does not provide that second decoder, there needs to be another HDMI sink involved to receive the second HDMI feed and decode/process it.

If you *just* wanted to send the HDMI signal straight to the TV in the bedroom, and use the TV speakers, then it wouldn't be an issue because the TV would be the 2nd HDMI sink. The fundamental problem here is how to "align" the HDMI signal to the bedroom TV with the audio you want to play on the 2.1 bedroom speakers. Putting a 2nd, inexpensive HDMI AVR in the mix (as noted above it can be in the closet, doesn't have to be in the bedroom) will solve this issue.

Another option you may want to consider, if your TV has any audio outputs, is to run the 2nd HDMI straight to the TV, then audio out from the back of the TV to a small 2ch amp which will power the bedroom speakers. They make very compact 2ch amps that could be easily concealed.
post #2174 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the bottom line here is that if you want to distribute a second HDMI signal, you NEED a second HDMI decoder. Period.
An HDMI matrix switch (whether external or the one built into the 3313ci) does not provide that second decoder, there needs to be another HDMI sink involved to receive the second HDMI feed and decode/process it.
If you *just* wanted to send the HDMI signal straight to the TV in the bedroom, and use the TV speakers, then it wouldn't be an issue because the TV would be the 2nd HDMI sink. The fundamental problem here is how to "align" the HDMI signal to the bedroom TV with the audio you want to play on the 2.1 bedroom speakers. Putting a 2nd, inexpensive HDMI AVR in the mix (as noted above it can be in the closet, doesn't have to be in the bedroom) will solve this issue.
Another option you may want to consider, if your TV has any audio outputs, is to run the 2nd HDMI straight to the TV, then audio out from the back of the TV to a small 2ch amp which will power the bedroom speakers. They make very compact 2ch amps that could be easily concealed.

As far as the tv is concerned, that should be easy to find one with audio outputs since I haven't purchased it yet smile.gif The speakers I have already bought for the master bedroom are KEF T301. The subwoofer is a Polk PSW111. Do you have a recommendation for a 2ch amp that is discreet, but powerful enough to match up with these speakers?

And that brings me back to the family room. The speakers for this room are KEF T305. Does the 3313CI even make sense just for this room anymore? In this scenario, I won't use fancy features like zones or airplay, since i have dedicated infrastructure for that already. What I want are great audio components and a really intuitive interface, preferably in an aesthetically pleasing package. For a while I was considering the Cambridge Audio 551R, since it seems to be less extra frills and more core oriented. What do you think?
post #2175 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbps View Post

...if I am watching TV and I decide to listen to music via the Network port (Airplay for example), which is the main reason I bought it, everything is still fine, however the problem begins when I want to go back to watching TV. Basically I flick back to the CBL\SAT input and I get nothing, a blank screen. The only way to get the picture back is to change the input back to Network, then back to CBL\SAT again.

I've narrowed down my problem further, it is defnitely a bug with Airplay and the Denon avr-1713. If I play music via Airplay and try to go back to the TV input I get a blank screen, that is basically it, a problem when I exit airplay.
I can workaround it by either selecting Exit in the Denon Airplay interface prior to selecting the CBL\SAT input or toggling back to Network then selecting CBL\SAT again. Which is not an acceptable process when you have non-technical family to consider, basically they can't turn on the TV!

Denon support have had me try a couple of things, and I've tried a multitude of things such as:

- Microprocessor reset
- Firmware updates
- Different inputs selections on the Denon
- Different input devices (a PC and an iPad)
- Different routers
- Ethernet all the way (wired PC with iTunes to the wired Denon)
- Using HDMIon.exe on the input HTPC (one theory is that it is an HDMI handshake problem)

Things I plan to try tonight:
- Different Output monitors (two different Sony TV's)
- Update the firmware on my router (a Fritz!box 7390)
- Disable IPv6
- No router at all (use a crosover cable between a laptop and the Denon with static IP's set)

Denon are adamant that this is a router issue and have asked that I try a THIRD router, which seems like a real stretch to me?! They're talking about Bonjour ports that need to be opened etc, but this is an internal fully wired connection and I'm pretty sure my router would not block anything in that scenario!

If I had a Harmony universal remote I could work around it but I have unfortunately just bought a Philips universal remote that does not support key sequences so that is not an option either!

Any other ideas out there?
Edited by jbps - 9/19/12 at 6:36pm
post #2176 of 10468
Have you tried either deselecting the Denon has the Airplay speakers when finished or pressing the left arrow (<) button on the remote before changing to the CBL/SAT input?
post #2177 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you tried either deselecting the Denon has the Airplay speakers when finished or pressing the left arrow (<) button on the remote before changing to the CBL/SAT input?

Yes, I've tried both. Deselecting the the speakers does not fix it, the music does return to my iPad but when I later select CBL\SAT the blank screen is still there.

Selecting the Left arrow does work (which is the "Exit" button as stated on the screen in the Airplay interface) but I really need this to be seamless for the wife approval factor. A sequence of buttons to return to TV should not be required in my opinion. You don't have to stop the DVD playing before you switch over to Internet radio for example.

I know this seems like nitpicking but it is a showstopper for me.

Thanks for the reply! Any other ideas?
post #2178 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
dude... paragraphs... smile.gif
you will have NO problem driving those speakers with just the avr...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
dude... paragraphs... smile.gif
you w
ill have NO problem driving those speakers with just the avr...[sorry ccotenj,i know i blabbed a lot man.i am still playing arround with this beautiful denon ,and my power amp.
calibrating yet a few more times before i report results .
is anyone else using power amps with their 3313?
post #2179 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes. HDMI Control (ON), Standby Source (as appropriate). p. 121 OM[/quote thank you jdsmoothie i did and it worked great i appreciate it:)
post #2180 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbps View Post

I've narrowed down my problem further, it is defnitely a bug with Airplay and the Denon. If I play music via Airplay and try to go back to the TV input I get a blank screen, that is basically it, a problem when I exit airplay.

Actually what would be really helpful is if someone on this forum could try to recreate this behaviour? If they can then it could be considered a "feature" and I would probably give up and return the Denon.

Steps are:
1. View an HDMI source input such as TV\DVD etc
2. Initiate Airplay so it flicks over to the Denon Airplay interface on the Network input
3. Return to the HDMI source input

Do you get a blank screen?
post #2181 of 10468
Yes, same results here. However by selecting Pause, then End and then returning to CAL/SAT video is present.
post #2182 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg4vfx View Post

To make sure I understand ...
You are saying that after doing the Auto Setup I should change the R/F fronts setting to "Small" and the crossover to 80hz even if Audyssey created "Large" speaker settings and a different crossover?
(Does this mean a "Large" speaker setting tends to leaves the sub off?)
Also, I currently have 3-way tower R/L fronts (tweeter, 2 mids, 8" woofer), does that make a difference re your suggested 80hz crossover or speaker size setting?
Ah, I just discovered that if you push and hold a "Sound Mode" button, like "Movie", you can scroll through decode/eq options. (Presumably the list of options changes based on what's appropriate for the input signal at that time.)
I'll put in a Blu-Ray to test if I have the decoding blue indicator light ; )

This has been mentioned a number of times, so I'm not directly replying to this reply, but sdg4vfx has a similar setup. I have some old JBL's HP88F's (purchased in 1997 or 98) for my fronts, and they'd have a lot a bass on every system I'm used to date, but i'm not getting that same sound with my 2113CI, with Audyssey. They sound great don't get me wrong, but I'm not getting any bass. By default they are set to large, I changed to small and crossovers to 80, and this just runs all the bass through the sub, the sound is fine for Movies, but not stereo sources, and I've determined that my Fronts will ultimately drowned out my sub, Its a JBL from 1999 I think, 10" 150 or 200 Watts, so Yeah, I really should upgrade to a larger sub, but I'm still not getting the base out of my fronts. So after a number of different settings, so many combinations that I can't remember, I ended up bypassing the the FL and FR under the Audyssey settings, and viola, I now have bass in my Fronts.

Based on my limited experience with Audyssey, it does a fantastic job with multi Channel, 5.1, but seems to prefer systems with smaller speakers and passing 80-100% of LFE to the sub. Just want to see how others with large front speakers are coming along, and what settings have worked best. I'm happy to do more tweaking.


Link to Front speaker specs
http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/HP88F%20ts.pdf
Edited by dbailey75 - 9/20/12 at 6:39am
post #2183 of 10468
^^^

"sounds" to me like audyssey knocked off some peaks that were being identified as "strong bass"... you would not be the first user to experience this...

properly calibrated, your fronts will not be drowned out by your sub...
post #2184 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbps View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbps View Post

I've narrowed down my problem further, it is defnitely a bug with Airplay and the Denon. If I play music via Airplay and try to go back to the TV input I get a blank screen, that is basically it, a problem when I exit airplay.

Actually what would be really helpful is if someone on this forum could try to recreate this behaviour? If they can then it could be considered a "feature" and I would probably give up and return the Denon.

Steps are:
1. View an HDMI source input such as TV\DVD etc
2. Initiate Airplay so it flicks over to the Denon Airplay interface on the Network input
3. Return to the HDMI source input

Do you get a blank screen?

I have had a few "blank screen" moments with my 2113ci also, and it does seem to happen after I have been using AirPlay. However, I can not reproduce it consistently. I tried last night with both my Roku and PS3 as the HDMI sources, and the HDMI switching was perfectly fine after using AirPlay, even if I didn't bother to stop the AirPlay stream before switching back to the HDMI feed.

The times it has happened to me powering the receiver on/off usually fixed the problem.
post #2185 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
"sounds" to me like audyssey knocked off some peaks that were being identified as "strong bass"... you would not be the first user to experience this...
properly calibrated, your fronts will not be drowned out by your sub...

To clarify my fronts were drowning out my sub, the sub can't keep up with the volume, I would have to push the gain on the sub up to "11" biggrin.gif to make up for the lac of bass. But as mentioned, with 4 8 inch woofers I really should needn't need the sub for stereo, but it does help to rattle the windows.
post #2186 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

I have a new problem with my 2113ci. It has worked flawlessly for the past month since I bought it but now a new problem has developed. I use a Harmony 700 remote. When I want to watch TV I press the "watch TV" button on the remote which turns on the TV, the 2113, and the Directv DVR. It always came right on with great picture and sound.
Now, everything comes on and the picture and sound appear, and then disappear after about 1 second and then comes on for 1 second and goes off, and keeps doing this. I turned the Denon off and the picture and sound keep coming on for 1 second followed by blank screen and no sound (even though the Denon is off).
I rearranged the way the components come on but still the same problem. Finally while the picture/sound are going off and on, I tried shutting off the Denon waiting a couple of seconds and turning it back on. Then the picture and sound are perfect again.
It seems to be the Denon, yet for a month it was perfect and then started doing this. There were no changes made to the TV, DVR, the Denon avr, or the Harmony remote prior to the problem starting. eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try manually powering on each of the devices TV, AVR, source waiting at least 10 seconds for each to power on before powering on the next component. If this resolves the issue, add the additional delay to the Harmony between powering on of each device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

Will try but the current setup worked fine for a month of daily use and NO problem. There have been no changes to anything. Suddenly the problem occurs everytime I turn everything on. Since no changes, I assume there is another answer. confused.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sure. You could also try doing a soft reset (unplugging the unit for 10 minutes) or a hard reset (microprocessor reset).

JDSmoothie/Batpig -

HAve tried all suggestions but problem persists. The difficult part for me to understand is why this developed after a month of a lot of turn-ons and off (I am retired and turn the set off and on many times a day) with no changes to the setup of the Harmony 700, the TV, the 2113, or the Directv dvr.. Also don't understand why the picture and sound going off and on occurs even after the Denon is turned off.

Yet, after turning all on and the problem is experienced, I turn the Denon off and then back on and problem is gone. eek.gif
post #2187 of 10468
If the issue only presents with the DTV DVR then more than likely the issue was caused by a recent firmware update to the DVR which has been known to cause issues with all AVR brands in the past when select firmware updates were applied. Your best bet may simply be to either connect DVR(HDMI) to the TV with DVR(optical) to the AVR or DVR(component/optical) to the AVR.
post #2188 of 10468
Thread Starter 
a bump on this -- can someone else test and see if they notice the same bug with the Denon iPhone app?
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Denon iPhone app bug with AirPlay...

I noticed a little bug with the AirPlay and the Denon iPhone app, curious if others have noticed this too.

For the most part I had been using AirPlay to stream directly from my iPhone, no issues there and everything works great (except for the quirk I noticed where if you are only using AirPlay to stream to Zone 2, the volume of the iPhone is still "linked" to the main zone, even if the main zone is playing a different source!). Once I cue up the AirPlay stream, the volume of the iPhone and receiver are "linked" properly and I can use the Denon app or the iPhone's Music app to control music, volume, and choose songs or albums/artists from the library of music on my iPhone.

Recently I have tried using the Apple Remote app to stream AirPlay from a networked computer (a Mac Mini running iTunes), so the iPhone is still the "controller" but the source is the iTunes library on the computer, not the music on the iPhone itself. That also works fine, with the exception being that the Denon iPhone app still "sees" the AirPlay info and Library from my iPhone! So, for example, if Song A was the last song I played from my iPhone, and then I cue up Song B and stream AirPlay from my computer to the Denon receiver, the Denon front panel display shows Song B (correct), the on-screen info on my TV shows Song B with album art from Song B (correct), but the "Player View" in the Denon iPhone app still shows Song A (wrong!).

As a side effect of this, when I adjust the volume slider in the "Player View" mode (with the wrong song displayed) it does nothing, but when I adjust the volume slider in the main page of the Denon app it works fine. I can also adjust volume fine from the Remote App on the iPhone.

Anyone else notice (or can replicate) this?
post #2189 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbps View Post

Actually what would be really helpful is if someone on this forum could try to recreate this behaviour? If they can then it could be considered a "feature" and I would probably give up and return the Denon.
Steps are:
1. View an HDMI source input such as TV\DVD etc
2. Initiate Airplay so it flicks over to the Denon Airplay interface on the Network input
3. Return to the HDMI source input
Do you get a blank screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RLauer View Post

Yes, same results here. However by selecting Pause, then End and then returning to CAL/SAT video is present.

Very interesting, as I was beginning to suspect it is a bug\feature. What model are you using and do you update your firmware regularly?
post #2190 of 10468
I hope that someone can help me with my setup. I have a Denon 2113CI AVR that is having problems connecting the HDMI inputs. I have 3 HDMI inputs and only 1 will be able to show on the Samsung TV that is connected via HDMI to the monitor out port. I have a Tivo DVR, an Apple TV (2G), and a PS3. I can get any of them to work if I unplug the HDMI connections of the other 2. I can not have all 3 plugged in and then switch to them. I have tried moving each device to a different input but the behavior is the same. My feeling is that the HDMI hub on the AVR is defective? I have had the new 2113CI for about a week and am ready to return it. Does anyone have any potential solutions?

Thanks,

-Kevin
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