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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 76

post #2251 of 7899
9/25/12 at 1:44pm
Thanks for the reply.
The purpose of my question is I am trying to see if I can use the Zone2 pre-out in any way as the Main R,L channel pre-out so that I can connect external amp for the main R, L channels (for 2313 and below which don't have main pre-outs ). But I guess it is not possible based on your saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Zone 2 Pre-Outs
No, you still also need an analog cable connection from the HDMI source. The Zone 2 (analog, network radio) limitation applies regardless of whether the Zone 2 pre-outs or the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts on the 1913 and higher models are used. Zone 2 volume control would be via the external 2CH amp on both the 1713 and 2113CI (via 2CH amp or main remote on 2313CI and 3313CI). The 1713 also doesn't feature any Zone2 Setup settings (see below)....

Also interestingly enough, although a feature, the 2113CI Owner's manual doesn't refer to the Zone 2 pre-out connection (see image taken from 2313CI Owner's manual below) ....
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post #2252 of 7899
9/25/12 at 1:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhiguera View Post

A (perhaps stupid) question:

I have a 1913 and am planning to buy a Zone 2 speakers. I've looked into the Zona Wireless:

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/wireless-speakers/aperion-zona-reg-wireless-speaker-system

If the 1913 has pre-outs, is there a problem to connect these powered speakers as they also have an internal amp?

the 1913 does NOT have pre-outs, you should check out the info at the beginning of this thread wink.gif

the 2113ci does have them, and that and the others reasons listed in post #2 make it a no-brainer over the 1913.

also note that it appears that Aperion system uses a 1/8" mini jack stereo input, so you'd need an RCA stereo > mini jack cable to plug in.
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post #2253 of 7899
9/25/12 at 1:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by avdigger View Post

Thanks for the reply.
The purpose of my question is I am trying to see if I can use the Zone2 pre-out in any way as the Main R,L channel pre-out so that I can connect external amp for the main R, L channels (for 2313 and below which don't have main pre-outs ). But I guess it is not possible based on your saying.

nope, not possible.
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post #2254 of 7899
9/25/12 at 2:44pm
I've been trying to do research on my own to find an AVR that will work for my needs and after originally being steered towards Yahama Aventage, I am thinking that the Denon series xx13 maybe a better fit. After going through the manuals however I still have some questions that hopefully the experts here can help me with.

Needs
5.1 Surround Sound in living room
Blu-Ray, Tivo and Xbox connected via HDMI
Wii connected via component
Airplay
XMradio
Pandora
2 speakers on patio only need to play Stereo.

I would have two primary usage needs:

1) Being able to watch TV or play a game in the living room while someone outside streams Airplay or Pandora to listen to music on the deck.
2) Have the ability to open the patio door up and play the same source in the living room and patio (even HDMI sources) in Stereo mode.

The Yahamas seemed to accomplish the second need with the "Party Mode", however it didn't seem to allow the first need as the manual says that Airplay is available in Zone 2 only when its also playing in the Main Zone. The Yahama's also don't have Pandora or XM as a "built-in" source so I would always need an idevice handy to listen to those over airplay.

The Denon's seem to meet need #1 as they say they have independant Zone2 Airplay (and Pandora and XM) ability while still retaining 5.1 surround in the main zone. They don't however, appear to have the ability to play a source simulatantely through the Main Zone and the 2nd Zone.

Am I reading this correctly and is there anything out there that will meet both my needs? Thanks for any help you can provide?
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post #2255 of 7899
9/25/12 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

2. The "Video Source" feature does not work with HDMI sources, rather while an audio source is playing, you can select an analog video source.
First of all, thanks for an amazingly thorough and very useful post. smile.gif

I'll go back and see if I can at least get the "video source" feature to work with an analog audio source and analog video source. I thought I had tried that, but maybe I didn't. The only reason I need this feature is to work around the dead analog input I have on my unit.

Quote:
3. Is the issue perhaps with the center speaker itself? Is the center speaker pulled out to edge of cabinet and aimed up towards ear height of the main listening position?
I do have the speaker exactly at the front edge of the cabinet, although I built the cabinet to exactly fit the speaker, with no room around the outside. The "cabinet" is actually just a custom stand that I built to raise up the TV within the existing space where the old rear projection TV fit (see photo below). I simply built a shelf for the center speaker creating the cubby hole directly below the center of the TV set that you see in the pic. Audigy calibration correctly identified the "large" vs. "small" size of the speakers.



[edit] It is tilted upward, but only slightly.

Quote:
4. Actually, NO AVR on the market will do the reverse, rather if you have legacy displays, you must either connect component in---> component out, composite in ---> composite out, or use a 3rd party HDMI-->component converter. See pp. 6-7 OM.
Yes, this is what I'm going to do. A small PIA, but not a big deal. I already have to build a control box to turn on/off various gizmos that used to be connected to the switched power that used to be standard in all receivers, but has now disappeared.

Quote:
5. Although previously located on the remote on prior year models, the Quick Select (p. 98 OM) keys have been removed from the XX13 model remotes and are now only available on the front panel. The "colored" keys are for selecting various sound modes only.
Hmmm ... Does this mean that I might be able to get some control codes from Remote Central that would let me do what I want? I can read Pronto codes and convert them for my learning remote.

Quote:
6. Most modern AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale such that the volume must be raised to at least 50% to get any volume with the average volume for many being about 60% (TV) and 70%(music/movies). After running Audyssey Setup, the speakers are calibrated to a 75db test tone at the main listening position. You may want to use a separate SPL meter to confirm this is the case as it's possible (although rare) you may have gotten a defective mic.
That is really useful information. I do indeed have the "standard" Radio Shack analog sound meter and with your information can confirm what is going on. Thank you very much for this nugget.

Quote:
7. HDMI handshake problems are common with all brands and especially noted with Uverse boxes.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L11
Great information. Thanks!
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post #2256 of 7899
9/25/12 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
^^^^ @ sjkobriger -- any Zone 2 Denon model can do both 1 and 2, but with the caveat that you also connect an analog audio cable (standard red/white RCA) in parallel with the HDMI cable from your three sources.
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post #2257 of 7899
9/25/12 at 3:01pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post

Quote:
5. Although previously located on the remote on prior year models, the Quick Select (p. 98 OM) keys have been removed from the XX13 model remotes and are now only available on the front panel. The "colored" keys are for selecting various sound modes only.
Hmmm ... Does this mean that I might be able to get some control codes from Remote Central that would let me do what I want? I can read Pronto codes and convert them for my learning remote.

yes, if you have a learning remote that can take raw hex code inputs, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff that isn't on the factory remote.

this is a custom installer guide to all the available IR codes, anything in here can be programmed into a universal remote: http://www.audioproducts.com.au/downloadcenter/products/Denon/AVR4520BK/Manuals/AVR4520_IR_CODE_V01.pdf

(note that is for the 4520ci so obviously there will be some functions that aren't available on lower level models, like Zone 4 commands)
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post #2258 of 7899
9/25/12 at 3:13pm
Thanks Batpig! I never thought of using the HDMI video sources with analog outputs. The primary concern is wanting to use the Blu-ray to play audio CDs and have the sound in the house and patio. Will the audio have any sync issues seeing as the ones inside are coming over digital and the ones outside are analog?
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post #2259 of 7899
9/25/12 at 4:07pm
Thread Starter 
unfortunately, it is possible that there will be sync issues due to the signal processing delay in Main Zone (vs. the straight, unprocessed analog path for Zone 2). If you put Main Zone in "DIRECT" surround mode the sync will be perfect, since that will bypass all digital processing in Main Zone.
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post #2260 of 7899
9/25/12 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm not just suggesting, I'm TELLING you that's the case wink.gif

Yes, sir! And I am glad I listened, you were (of course) right smile.gif I will be buying one tomorrow from either J&R or EE.
Thanks!
Tom
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post #2261 of 7899
9/25/12 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, if you have a learning remote that can take raw hex code inputs, you can do all sorts of crazy stuff that isn't on the factory remote.
this is a custom installer guide to all the available IR codes, anything in here can be programmed into a universal remote ...
Interesting document. I'll see if I can figure out how to get that into Pronto format (which is what my software is designed to use). Thanks!
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post #2262 of 7899
9/25/12 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post

Interesting document. I'll see if I can figure out how to get that into Pronto format (which is what my software is designed to use). Thanks!

There's a rather nice tool to generate the pronto codes from Denon's IR Codes document to Pronto Codes. You can grab it from here.

http://files.remotecentral.com/view/96-264-1/denon_pronto_hex_generator.html

There's another project (from the Concordance project) which allows you to directly upload the pronto codes to Harmony's database. I've used this to generate the Remote ID 2 codes for my AVR-888.
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post #2263 of 7899
9/25/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post

I simply built a shelf for the center speaker creating the cubby hole directly below the center of the TV set that you see in the pic. Audigy calibration correctly identified the "large" vs. "small" size of the speakers.

 

Going by the size of your TV (distance between the front speakers) you might want to try a virtual center (setting the receiver to no center speaker). Based on your seating location (off axis and distance) it might work rather nicely.

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post #2264 of 7899
9/25/12 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmeyer View Post

I do have the speaker exactly at the front edge of the cabinet, although I built the cabinet to exactly fit the speaker, with no room around the outside. The "cabinet" is actually just a custom stand that I built to raise up the TV within the existing space where the old rear projection TV fit (see photo below). I simply built a shelf for the center speaker creating the cubby hole directly below the center of the TV set that you see in the pic. Audigy calibration correctly identified the "large" vs. "small" size of the speakers.
[edit] It is tilted upward, but only slightly.

As the FL/FR speakers are much larger than the center, if the virtual speaker configuration doesn't work for you, consider a larger center speaker (if movies/TV make up most of your listening the center speaker should ideally be the same or better quality than the FL/FR speakers). You also may want to consider redesigning the custom stand to place the center speaker cubby on top of the stand with the TV sitting on the center speaker cubby (thus raising the center speaker higher and closer to the FL/FR tweeters), this time allowing for more vertical space in the cubby to allow it to properly be aimed up towards ear height. To get an idea of how much of an improvement a larger angle would make, try pulling the center speaker out of the cubby enough such that it can be properly angled up. Not sure what you mean by Audyssey correctly identified the "large" vs. "small" as the FL/FR speakers should be reset to SMALL with 80hz crossovers as you have a sub in the setup.
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post #2265 of 7899
9/25/12 at 9:46pm
My 2113 just auto-updated to firmware version 1490-1119-0000-1320-0867.
Anyone know what changed?
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post #2266 of 7899
9/25/12 at 11:40pm
I just got my AVR-3313 yesrerday, my first denon. It was pleasure to set it up, no problems.
Only thing I couldn't fix is my subwoofer i trigger mode. I did everything as in user guide but no sound in trigger mode.
I have Harman Kardon HKTS 30BQ 5.1 speakers.
I'm new in this. Is anybody some advice about this?
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post #2267 of 7899
9/26/12 at 2:25am
I recently bought a Denon 2113 and while watching some TV shows i've noticed that the picture is being adjusted to change the brightness and possibly contrast and i want it to stop. I don't think it's my TV as i don't recall seeing this happening before. This happens when i stream TV shows to my PS3 which i've set as the GAME input. Would it stop If i set it to something else? Hopefully someone can help.
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post #2268 of 7899
9/26/12 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkova View Post

I just got my AVR-3313 yesrerday, my first denon. It was pleasure to set it up, no problems.
Only thing I couldn't fix is my subwoofer i trigger mode. I did everything as in user guide but no sound in trigger mode.
I have Harman Kardon HKTS 30BQ 5.1 speakers.
I'm new in this. Is anybody some advice about this?

Remove the 3.5mm trigger cable as there's no reason to use it.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 9/26/12 at 4:32am
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post #2269 of 7899
9/26/12 at 4:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pratikp16 View Post

I recently bought a Denon 2113 and while watching some TV shows i've noticed that the picture is being adjusted to change the brightness and possibly contrast and i want it to stop. I don't think it's my TV as i don't recall seeing this happening before. This happens when i stream TV shows to my PS3 which i've set as the GAME input. Would it stop If i set it to something else? Hopefully someone can help.

Try setting "Video Conversion" (p. 107 OM) to OFF and see if the issue still presents. Also try testing with the other HDMI inputs to see if the same issue presents (w/Video Conversion set to ON).
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post #2270 of 7899
9/26/12 at 6:12am
Want a 2313 for the price of a 2312? Order a 2312 from electronics expo on amazon ASAP. I ordered one last night and they emailed me to let me know that the 2312 is sold out...but they asked me if I'd accept a free upgrade to the 2313. Yes please!

Powered by the Samsung Galaxy Nexus
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post #2271 of 7899
9/26/12 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

I have a new problem with my 2113ci. It has worked flawlessly for the past month since I bought it but now a new problem has developed. I use a Harmony 700 remote. When I want to watch TV I press the "watch TV" button on the remote which turns on the TV, the 2113, and the Directv DVR. It always came right on with great picture and sound.
Now, everything comes on and the picture and sound appear, and then disappear after about 1 second and then comes on for 1 second and goes off, and keeps doing this. I turned the Denon off and the picture and sound keep coming on for 1 second followed by blank screen and no sound (even though the Denon is off). I rearranged the way the components come on but still the same problem. Finally while the picture/sound are going off and on, I tried shutting off the Denon waiting a couple of seconds and turning it back on. Then the picture and sound are perfect again.
It seems to be the Denon, yet for a month it was perfect and then started doing this. There were no changes made to the TV, DVR, the Denon avr, or the Harmony remote prior to the problem starting. eek.gif

I have some new experiences to provide you regarding the above problem. I thank JDSmoothie and Batpig for offering suggestions for the above problem but the problem persists after trying all their suggestions.

This morning I received a new update for the 2113. It took about 20 minutes for it to download. During this update I turned the TV off and only the Directv DVR and 2113 were on. When the 2113 came back on and the sound returned, I turned the TV back on and once again had the TV picture and sound go off and on at about 1 second intervals. Again, turning the 2113 off and back on solved the problem.

Does this mean that the TV is causing the problem, or does it mean that the 2113 is the cause? Remember that I had the 2113 for about 1 month before this problem began. I am hoping that this new info helps you diagnosis it. Are there any other suggestions to make it work as it should, and did?
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post #2272 of 7899
9/26/12 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

I have some new experiences to provide you regarding the above problem. I thank JDSmoothie and Batpig for offering suggestions for the above problem but the problem persists after trying all their suggestions.
This morning I received a new update for the 2113. It took about 20 minutes for it to download. During this update I turned the TV off and only the Directv DVR and 2113 were on. When the 2113 came back on and the sound returned, I turned the TV back on and once again had the TV picture and sound go off and on at about 1 second intervals. Again, turning the 2113 off and back on solved the problem.
Does this mean that the TV is causing the problem, or does it mean that the 2113 is the cause? Remember that I had the 2113 for about 1 month before this problem began. I am hoping that this new info helps you diagnosis it. Are there any other suggestions to make it work as it should, and did?
You indicate that kit turn-on sequence changes were made to remote.

Have you also adjusted timing as well?

I had to adjust my display timing for 12 seconds to get my problems sorted.
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post #2273 of 7899
9/26/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptonite5 View Post

My 2113 just auto-updated to firmware version 1490-1119-0000-1320-0867.
Anyone know what changed?
Same here, new update yesterday for the 2113.
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post #2274 of 7899
9/26/12 at 9:59am
to jekbrown

I've been looking at the 2313 and give this a shot this morning ordering the 2312 on Amazon (sold by EE). I ordered about 10 minutes ago and only received the normal confirmation e-mail from Amazon. Did you received a 2nd e-mail from Amazon or from EE notifying you if was out of stock?
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post #2275 of 7899
9/26/12 at 10:29am
Just a quick note to "jdsmoothie:" My dead DVD input (which eventually turned out to be ALL inputs to the DVD channel, including HDMI and component) was fixed by doing the microprocessor reset that you recommended, both in your post to me a few days ago and in your signature line.

Thanks!!
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post #2276 of 7899
9/26/12 at 11:21am
Great! Yup ... there's a reason it's in my sig. wink.gif
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post #2277 of 7899
9/26/12 at 12:26pm
jdsmoothie,

Wow, now that everything is working, I've looked at the other links in your signature and am reading your amazing FAQs. I have to thank you yet again. Really great stuff!

John
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post #2278 of 7899
9/26/12 at 1:12pm
The first one is the fine work of member kbarnes701. smile.gif
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post #2279 of 7899
9/26/12 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the 1913 does NOT have pre-outs, you should check out the info at the beginning of this thread wink.gif
the 2113ci does have them, and that and the others reasons listed in post #2 make it a no-brainer over the 1913.
also note that it appears that Aperion system uses a 1/8" mini jack stereo input, so you'd need an RCA stereo > mini jack cable to plug in.

Thanks batpig.... As I said, my question was kind of stupid biggrin.gif

I guess I'm confused about the terminology. I thought powered outputs (the zone 2 outs on my 1913) was the same as "pre-out" ... It seems I'm wrong. But still the question remains:

Acknowledging the RCA->mini-jack cable need, is there a problem to connect powered speakers as the ones I mentioned (Zona wireless) to the "powered outputs" in my AVR? (I realize it might still be a stupid question, but please bear with me). I know with the powered outputs I don't need powered speakers, so that is why my question
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post #2280 of 7899
9/26/12 at 2:04pm
^^
active speakers = powered speakers <= pre-out (non-amped signal)

passive speakers = non-powered speakers <= speaker posts (amped/powered signal)

Those speakers should work with the Zone 2 pre-outs.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ