or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 80

post #2371 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime-540 View Post

Sorry if this has been debated/answered. Will the 1913 or 2113 have any issues with 4 ohm speakers?

I would like to buy the Martinlogan Motion 4 speakers for L/R and Motion 8 for center channel (WAF). I already have in-wall rears and a 15" Velodyne sub (yea old). The ML's apparently are rated at 4 ohms but their website also indicates they will work with 8 ohm receivers. Does anyone have this combo of the Denon 1913/2113 with the ML Motions? Will the extra 5 watts/ch of the 2113 make a difference?

the problem is that there are a lot of variables at play... not all "4 ohm speakers" are equal. Impedance isn't a fixed value, it will vary by frequency and the combination of impedance curve, speaker sensitivity, and other factors such as room size + volume.

so the Denons don't "officially" support 4-ohm speakers but if the speaker mfgr says they are compatible with 8-ohm rated amps then that problems means they are "easy" 4-ohm speakers. You will probably be fine, those speakers are sort of mass market consumer priced and I doubt that ML would put out a product at that price point that wouldn't work with your typical $500-1000 receiver that will likely be paired with it.

one thing I know for sure is that the "extra 5 watts" are meaningless in this particular discussion. Get the 2113 for all the reasons I list at the beginning of this thread.
post #2372 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jekbrown View Post

Rock on, thanks for the tips BP! How adjustable are those "parameters" for DPLII music you speak of?

PLII Music has 3 adjustable parameters:

1. Center Width determines how much content is mixed from the stereo L/R channels into the center channel. At the max setting the center channel is muted and the front L/R play "true" stereo, at the min setting the L/R speakers are muted and 100% of the front content collapses to the center.

2. Dimension determines how much content is matrixed to the surround channels (front/rear balance). The range isn't as extreme (i.e. you can't mute the surrounds) but at the min setting the surrounds will be much less noticeable.

3. Panorama is an on/off setting that you should turn on if you want more of a "wraparound" effect.
post #2373 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime-540 View Post

Sorry if this has been debated/answered. Will the 1913 or 2113 have any issues with 4 ohm speakers?
I would like to buy the Martinlogan Motion 4 speakers for L/R and Motion 8 for center channel (WAF). I already have in-wall rears and a 15" Velodyne sub (yea old). The ML's apparently are rated at 4 ohms but their website also indicates they will work with 8 ohm receivers. Does anyone have this combo of the Denon 1913/2113 with the ML Motions? Will the extra 5 watts/ch of the 2113 make a difference?
I have read general comments to the effect that it is okay as long as really loud volume is not used. The receiver will be used in my HT for mostly movies/TV, some music, and Airplay in zone 2. I like movies/TV loud to hear the effects but wouldn't say really loud. How to quantify this?
Thanks in advance!

With my 2113 I am running Front L/R speakers with similar specs – 4 ohms and 90dB/2.83 volts/metre. I’ve had no issues with quite loud volume, though I’ve never really tried to push them to insane levels. You see a lot of scary commentary about 4 ohm speakers but at 90dB they are reasonably efficient and I think the real situation is as long as you don’t drive them to distortion it’s fine. Denon seem to use quality amps so I’m sure that helps. I recently upgraded from an old 1803 (80 watts/channel vs 95 on the 2113) and had no issues with that either.

I believe running a sub with 80Hz crossover helps a lot, since the low frequencies require the most power and by sending them to the sub (with its own amp) you’re taking load off the AVR. One option is to get a model with pre-outs so you can hook a 2 channel amp into your setup if needed.

808
post #2374 of 10468
Awesome BP. Sounds like DPLII music with the 'dimension' setting cranked would probably be my best best then.

BTW, I started digging through the manual......why not use the DPLII "game" mode? Is that more for newer game audio?
post #2375 of 10468
Hi folks,

been digging in previous posts for a while, but couldn't find an answer to my problem. I own a 2113 and want to stream music via WLAN to the receiver from a Windows 7 system. I managed this to a certain degree but am unhappy with the receiver's behaviour: Say I have media player open, put some files in the library or playlist and click on the symbol "Play To...". My Notebook now sends the first song to the AVR - I press the Network button on my remote and after a few seconds it went through the "landing page" of network (with the icons of Spotify, Lastfm, Media Server and so on) and switches to playback automatically - so far so good. BUT...after having played the first song the AVR jumps back to the "landing page", obviously notices that there's more coming and plays back the 2nd song after a few seconds. This gap is very annoying since it takes approximately 4-5 seconds between songs. My question obviously: Is there a setting I can tweak for gapless playback?

Thanks in advance.
post #2376 of 10468
Gapless audio was recently added via a firmware update with the Spotify update. See post #6 for details.
post #2377 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

as JD notes the 3313ci can control the volume level of its zone 2/3 pre-outs; this is actually a "step up" feature on the 2313 and 3313 as the lower models with Zone 2 pre-outs have fixed line level output, meaning you must control volume externally.

Does this mean that the pre-out and amp assign volumes are linked for the 2313? That would be a bummer because I was planning on using the pre-outs to expand the Zone 2 capabilities to another area of the house making a faux zone 2.5 (JBL WEM-1 to the bedroom via pre-out, speaker wire to the yard). The 2313 manual actually contradicts itself on page 129 by stating "Zone2 Setup" is displayed when "Zone2" is selected with "Assign Mode" but then goes on to state in the table that "Volume Level" is forced to Variable when the previous statement is true (implying the previous statement isn't fully valid). Can someone confirm?

Edit: It appears the media player pre-outs might actually be always hot, at zero attenuation, and linked to zone 2 (see page 92 of the 2313 manual). True?
Edited by AceBates - 10/3/12 at 4:33pm
post #2378 of 10468
Yes, it means they're linked. I see no contradiction in what's noted in the manual. If Amp Assign = Zone 2 (ie. powered Zone 2 speaker posts), then the Zone 2 volume must be controlled by the AVR (ie. "Variable").
post #2379 of 10468
^^
They supply a blanket statement stating that "Zone2 Setup" directly under the "Zone2 Setup" heading is only available if amp assign is set to zone 2, which I originally inferred meant "this table is valid IFF," but then settings are listed that are actually valid if amp assign is not set to zone 2; thus the contradiction.
post #2380 of 10468
Ah, gotcha ... rather just incomplete wording as it doesn't imply "only" when, rather "when". The setup menu likely also appears when Zone 2 is powered ON.
post #2381 of 10468
WHICH SHOULD I GET??

I've found an open-box deal on a 3312 for $550 and also an open box 2313 for $700. Both seem to have some key features I want: a) multi-zone where I can play airplay in Zone 2, and b) Audyssey DSX.

Any recommendations on which I should go for?... get more power but slightly older model and save $150, or get the newer 2313? Thoughts?
Edited by bblackbu - 10/3/12 at 8:20pm
post #2382 of 10468
Thanks batpig and 808 for your advice on using the 4 ohm ML Motion speakers. I feel comfortable now with the 1913 or 2113 choices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 808State View Post

One option is to get a model with pre-outs so you can hook a 2 channel amp into your setup if needed.
808

Both these models have pre-outs for zone 2 only, correct? Main zone pre-outs to an external amp would require a jump to the 3313 I believe - way above my budget and more receiver than I need considering the class (cost) of speakers I intend to buy. Or, are you saying that offloading just zone 2 to an external amp would aid with the concern I have with this setup?
post #2383 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Gapless audio was recently added via a firmware update with the Spotify update. See post #6 for details.

I'd read that before,too. My firmware is up-to-date (version they launched on 26th September). But how is it supposed to work with the scenario I described?
post #2384 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by bblackbu View Post

WHICH SHOULD I GET??
I've found an open-box deal on a 3312 for $550 and also an open box 2313 for $700. Both seem to have some key features I want: a) multi-zone where I can play airplay in Zone 2, and b) Audyssey DSX.
Any recommendations on which I should go for?... get more power but slightly older model and save $150, or get the newer 2313? Thoughts?

First it's important to learn why they are "open" box? Were they demos or returned by a previous owner? Any known issues with either one? They'll both get a full 3 year warranty if purchased from an authorized reseller, but still it's good to know their history. Unless you need a feature offered by the 2313, the 3312 would be the better buy.
post #2385 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigtime-540 View Post

Thanks batpig and 808 for your advice on using the 4 ohm ML Motion speakers. I feel comfortable now with the 1913 or 2113 choices.
Both these models have pre-outs for zone 2 only, correct? Main zone pre-outs to an external amp would require a jump to the 3313 I believe - way above my budget and more receiver than I need considering the class (cost) of speakers I intend to buy. Or, are you saying that offloading just zone 2 to an external amp would aid with the concern I have with this setup?

No, rather main zone pre-outs would be required, although as long as you don't prefer loud volume for movies/music, you should be fine at average volume of -20db.
post #2386 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by cropster View Post

I'd read that before,too. My firmware is up-to-date (version they launched on 26th September). But how is it supposed to work with the scenario I described?

Just indicating what formats are now gapless.
post #2387 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbwilson View Post

Spotify experience - mostly positive!
I am an owner of an AVR-2113ci since July (very happy with it for both classical music & movies). I upgraded the firmware yesterday to get the new Spotify capabilities. I had a little trouble on Windows installing the Spotify app: I subscribed to Spotify Premium using a Facebook login, but when I went to run the installed Windows app, my login was rejected. I finally tried the "new user" path rather than the Facebook logon, and was successful - it seems I was already logged in on my PC, but the error message didn't reflect that as the source of the problem.
I expected to have to use the numeric user ID and Spotify password on my Ipad, but that also didn't work - it apparently was happy with my Facebook login.
I succeeded in finding and adding a few playlists from http://www.spotifyclassical.com, which showed up from the Denon Spotify menu on my AVR after a few minutes. I have been happily listening to Spotify for a couple of hours, with no problems - Eureka! I think it's $10/month well spent!
The Denon Remote app on the Iphone/Ipad properly shows the current album artwork and selection title. The DeRemote app doesn't properly handle Spotify yet, but email from the app author indicates the revised version has already been submitted to Apple.


Great to hear about DeRemote. I am a fan but haven't been using it since Spotify was added as I couldn't control it. I have the same unit and use it with Spotify premium and love it. The one issue is you can't use more than one unit per account at a time. I found that out when my wife tried to use the Denon spotify while I was using my iphone Spotify while cutting the grass. It paused my music because she fired the Denon up. I think it's a licensing thing.

Thanks,

Pat
post #2388 of 10468
Hello 2113 owners

quick question. I had placed an order thru Amazon (fulfilled by a 3rd party) for the denon 2112 but they just called me and said they are out of stock and will offer complimentary upgrade to the 2113 model for the same price.

Seems like a no brainer, but just wanted to check if you know of any major issues with the 2113? thoughts?

AVR
post #2389 of 10468
No reservations, the 2113 is great!
Pat
post #2390 of 10468
Pat

thx. I heard the main features you lose by going to the 2113 compared to 2112 are

Rhapsody, Napster, Quick Selects on remote, AM radio, 2CH Stereo custom settings, speaker level volume adjustment by the remote

I don't care about Rhapsody, Napster, AM radio. what about the other features based on your usage? presume you are using 2113 today?

AVR
post #2391 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRookee View Post

Pat
thx. I heard the main features you lose by going to the 2113 compared to 2112 are
Rhapsody, Napster, Quick Selects on remote, AM radio, 2CH Stereo custom settings, speaker level volume adjustment by the remote
I don't care about Rhapsody, Napster, AM radio. what about the other features based on your usage? presume you are using 2113 today?
AVR

I don't use Rhapsody or Napster (they still around???smile.gif)
I use internet streams for AM radio when needed ( I think that's Denon's idea for getting rid of the tuner)
I don't use 2 channel stereo ever. I use 5.1 + 2.0 (internal amp) + 2.0 (external amp)
Once you run Auddysey, I see no reason to adjust speaker levels by remote. I wouldn't ever use that personally.

I do use Spotify as I said, and that is not available on the 2112. I use Pandora a lot, not sure if that is available on the 2112. I use the Denon iphone and ipad app to control it all the time, I especially like the zone 2 capabilities. Controlling the music from the patio, seeing what's playing, etc. is awesome!

Hope this helps.

Pat
post #2392 of 10468
Yep, good point. I'll definitely find out why these are open-box deals. Both are through my local Best Buy store, so I assume they are an authorized reseller. So the on-screen interface is the same? And same mobile app experience, right? My only other thought was that getting the '13 model would better future-proof me (meaning I assume that Denon will stop doing updates for for the '12 models before the '13 models).
post #2393 of 10468
Yes, Best Buy is an authorized reseller, although most likely they were returned because the buyer couldn't figure out how to set the unit up. As with any open box/demo units, before starting the setup, do the microprocessor reset procedure listed in the Owner's manual. Also note the on screen interface is different as well as the new iPhone remote app has some additional settings for the XX13 models and the new android only works with the XX13 models. Keep in mind that firmware updates are provided to fix problems, so the fact that the XX12 model updates will end sooner simply means the problems have been resolved sooner.
post #2394 of 10468
Thanks. Great info. Are the differences with the on-screen interface and the mobile app meaningful, or just window-dressing?
post #2395 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, Best Buy is an authorized reseller, although most likely they were returned because the buyer couldn't figure out how to set the unit up. As with any open box/demo units, before starting the setup, do the microprocessor reset procedure listed in the Owner's manual. Also note the on screen interface is different as well as the new iPhone remote app has some additional settings for the XX13 models and the new android only works with the XX13 models. Keep in mind that firmware updates are provided to fix problems, so the fact that the XX12 model updates will end sooner simply means the problems have been resolved sooner.
TRUE
post #2396 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, Best Buy is an authorized reseller, although most likely they were returned because the buyer couldn't figure out how to set the unit up. As with any open box/demo units, before starting the setup, do the microprocessor reset procedure listed in the Owner's manual. Also note the on screen interface is different as well as the new iPhone remote app has some additional settings for the XX13 models and the new android only works with the XX13 models. Keep in mind that firmware updates are provided to fix problems, so the fact that the XX12 model updates will end sooner simply means the problems have been resolved sooner.

Added features is another reason for updates and older units lose support quicker.
I agree with all of your other points but that one addition:)
Pat
post #2397 of 10468
Hi everyone: Batpig or Jd, I have an avr889 and a Yamaha rx v775. Currently the 889 is connected to a uverse box and a blu ray player. I have it set up with 7.1 surround to a Sanyo z3000. I also have an hdmi splitter running to a flat screen in my game room which is one room over. I get the same broadcast from uverse in both rooms. I also have optical cable providing sound in the game room from the Yamaha. I am getting rid of the Yamaha and have bought an avr3313. What I want to know is how to be able to play a movie on the blu ray in the theater room and also have it play on the flat screen in the game room. Is this possible? Currently the game room is set up ad a 5.1 surround. It still will be when I replace the Yamaha with the avr889. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Ed
post #2398 of 10468
Thread Starter 
yes, the 3313ci has three HDMI outs -- two of them are "parallel" in that they utilize the same source, whereas the third is a Zone 2 "matrix" output that can pass through a different source to the second zone.

so you could put the 889 in the secondary room, use the 3313 in the main room, and send the Zone 2 HDMI out to the 889. This would allow you to watch the same thing in both rooms OR watch a different HDMI source in the 2nd room.
post #2399 of 10468
Hi. Thanks for the response to my post a few pages back. I'm really glad that I'll be able to set up the 3313 zone 2 to my tv and watch one source while listening to another at the same time. I feel that, at least for me, that feature is more valuable than the XT32 on the Onkyo 818. The 3313 really seems like the one for me. I'll be saving up for that one.

I've never had a Denon before. I used to have a HK AVR100 back in 2000 (which I loved but I don't like them so much anymore) then got a hand-me-down Onkyo 702 which I'm using right now. The only thing is I haven't really been able to find reviews on the 3313. Have you guys heard much good feedback on the 3313? Are there any reviews you can lead me to?

Thanks. You guys are really helpful!
post #2400 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkl5 View Post

I've never had a Denon before. I used to have a HK AVR100 back in 2000 (which I loved but I don't like them so much anymore) then got a hand-me-down Onkyo 702 which I'm using right now. The only thing is I haven't really been able to find reviews on the 3313. Have you guys heard much good feedback on the 3313? Are there any reviews you can lead me to?

Well, I can't point you to an official review, I can tell you that I have one, and it's a fantastic piece of kit. smile.gif Sound quality is great, functions are great, and the zone 2 output works quite well. The only little nig I have with it is that if I change the input on zone 2, that also interrupts zone 1 briefly, even if I'm not switching to/from the input that's being used in zone 1.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ