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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 114

post #3391 of 7917
11/30/12 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Any standard 14 AWG or 16 AWG wire will suffice, although might as well just order everything (cables, plugs, wire) from Monoprice. If you don't already own an optical cable, order one of them as well in case your cable/sat box has HDMI handshake issues with the AVR and must be connected directly to the TV with optical to the AVR for surround audio.


So this is probably a silly question, but I do not have a cable/sat box. Do I still need an optical cable? If so, what kind do you recommend.
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post #3392 of 7917
11/30/12 at 7:28am
jdsmoothie - Did you see my post a few post up?
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post #3393 of 7917
11/30/12 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. You will rarely (if ever) find someone that wished they had purchased the next lower model, but quite often find someone wishing they had purchased the next higher model. As you are already second guessing yourself, just upgrade to the 2113 and call it a day. smile.gif
2. Nope.
3. Fry's is listed on Denon's B&M list of authorized resellers, you're likely just looking at on-line authorized resellers.
Any standard 14 AWG or 16 AWG wire will suffice, although might as well just order everything (cables, plugs, wire) from Monoprice. If you don't already own an optical cable, order one of them as well in case your cable/sat box has HDMI handshake issues with the AVR and must be connected directly to the TV with optical to the AVR for surround audio.

Hi JDS,

I received my 2113 a few days ago. I noticed the vast majority of stations display DOLBY DIGITAL and not DOLBY PLII. When I select the audio MOVIE button twice, Prologic isn't on the dropdown menu as a selectable option. My setup is Verizon DVR / Sharp60 3D/ Dennon 2113. HDMI cable. Is this a symptom of the HDMI handshake problem? Shouldn't all the Dolby listening options appear on the dropdown menu?

Thanks,
Paul
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post #3394 of 7917
11/30/12 at 9:11am
If you see Dolby Digital, it means that the station (or DVR) is providing a 5.1 channel signal even though only 2 channels are audible. If you have a 5.1 speaker configuration, ProLogic can't/won't do anything to expand the 5.1 incoming channels to drive more speakers. If you can persuade your DVR to output two channel stereo (maybe it has red/white stereo analog connections), then ProLogic would be available to expand them.
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post #3395 of 7917
11/30/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Anyone near a Fry's who is shopping for a new receiver should check this out, I just stopped by my local Fry's at lunch and the AVR 1913 is on sale for only $288:

Normally of course we advise that people step up to the 2113, however this price is so awesome that it's worth losing out on XT for most "budget" setups. Just a screaming deal on a new unit, cheaper than their price on the 1613!
They also have a great deal on Infinity Primus P163 bookshelf speakers -- only $53 each! Combined that would be an amazing budget starter setup.

Oh man, I got super excited until I saw that the 1913 only has Audyssesy MulitEQ instead of XT. Seems pretty odd that the next model down (1713) gets XT but this pricier model only gets regular MultEQ frown.gif

Considering that I watch a lot of DVD and 480p streaming content, would the 1080p upconverson outweigh the lack of XT? (I don't know much about 1080p upscaling). If not, I'll keep looking for a great deal on a 1713.
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post #3396 of 7917
11/30/12 at 10:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanburito60 View Post

My first question is, with an infinity primus setup(2x p363, 4x163, 1x pc351), is there almost diminishing returns in paying the extra for audyssey XT since my speakers are more of the budget variety?

absolutely not -- at least, not more than in the general sense that XT is already "dimishing returns" beyond MultEQ. The difference between no calibration and MultEQ is quite large (obviously), whereas the gains from MultEQ > XT > XT32 are more of the incremental variety. Each step will yield enhanced clarity, transparency, smoothness of bass, and overall system integration (blend) as it has more processing power to correct acoustic issues.

and while the Primus are "budget speakers" on paper, they are widely regarded as being some of the best "bang for the buck" and the audio quality is well above their price class.

Quote:
My second question is, with a 7.1 setup vs a 5.1, does this make it more important to have the best audio calibration?

the number of speakers doesn't matter, it's about correcting for the acoustic anomalies of your ROOM.

Quote:
So this is probably a silly question, but I do not have a cable/sat box. Do I still need an optical cable? If so, what kind do you recommend.

you only NEED an optical cable if you have a source that you wish to connect with an optical cable. That sounds obvious but it really is that simple wink.gif

that said, if you are already placing an order with monoprice, optical cables are like 2 bucks each. So grab a couple of different lengths just in case: http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229

my feeling is that the cables at monoprice are so cheap that once you are already paying the shipping cost, you might as well order a few spares. Can't hurt to have a couple of extra HDMI, optical, and RCA cables around for an extra 10 bucks.
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post #3397 of 7917
11/30/12 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindredspirit View Post

I have tried some searching for this problem and so far I haven't been able to find a remedy to my problem. I'm not sure if this is a receiver problem or a Harmony remote problem. When I press the Watch TV button, everything comes on, including the receiver, but no sound comes through my home theater speakers. It does however send the sound directly to my TV speakers. I have to power down the receiver and then power it back up. I then see "Switching Audio to External Speakers" which causes everything to work like it should. I have tried setting a delay on powering up the receiver in the remote but that hasn't fixed it either. Can someone give me some input on how to fix this. Thanks for your help.
kwh

By the way, I think it has something to do with the switching between TV speakers and External Audio speakers. When I turned that function off it works fine but can't watch TV without the receiver being on.

This sounds like an HDMI handshake problem, with the display and the receiver not negotiating properly so the TV still thinks the receiver is off and the audio of the receiver fails to switch.

The power on order and timing will probably affect this -- instead of applying a delay on your Harmony to the power on of the receiver, try it the other way (e.g. powering on the receiver first and then the TV a couple of seconds later). Keep playing around, and you may find the combo that works.

Also, if you aren't using it, turn off any HDMI-CEC features in your TV (e.g. Anynet+ for Samsung, VieraLink for Panasonic, BraviaLink for Sony, etc).
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post #3398 of 7917
11/30/12 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

So I got my 3313 last night and all setup. After watching Resident Evil Afterlife 3D, the sound was "different" from my Pioneer Elite vsx-92. I've been using the 92 for a while now and I guess I prefer it's sound better. I'll be giving it some more time.

I set mine up 2 days ago, got my HDMI to play nice, went through a bunch of material last night i know well, mine sounds very different coming from my Onkyo HT-Rc180. I didnt think it would make much difference. I haven't done Audessy set up yet just basic level and distance to get it fired up.

A lot of the differences i like. It seems much more robust in the mid bass regions and in dialog intelligibility, My Onkyo always seemed lacking in this region and I was contemplating some new speakers, I was amazed at the difference.
Edited by coffeeguy57 - 11/30/12 at 10:36am
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post #3399 of 7917
11/30/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

If you see Dolby Digital, it means that the station (or DVR) is providing a 5.1 channel signal even though only 2 channels are audible. If you have a 5.1 speaker configuration, ProLogic can't/won't do anything to expand the 5.1 incoming channels to drive more speakers. If you can persuade your DVR to output two channel stereo (maybe it has red/white stereo analog connections), then ProLogic would be available to expand them.

Thank you for your reply. Interesting. I suppose I can rule out the DVR as the issue since I do see a Prologic signal (displayed on the Denon) for a few of the channels. I thought perhaps it was my HDMI (only) configuration.
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post #3400 of 7917
11/30/12 at 2:38pm
Thread Starter 
the key thing to understand is that there is NO issue. That is normal and DESIRED operation -- some channels broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital, in which case the receiver locks onto the 5.1 signal and there is nothing left to do. When you turn to a channel with a stereo (2.0) broadcast, now Pro Logic becomes an option and the receiver uses Dolby PLII to upmix the 2.0 signal to 5.1 output.
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post #3401 of 7917
11/30/12 at 3:00pm
If I auto calibrate with one set of speakers, is it easy to redo the auto calibratation with another set? I would like to demo alternatives before making a final decision on front and center channels.
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post #3402 of 7917
11/30/12 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Well it depends what you mean by "easy". The receiver cannot store different profiles that allow for quick A/B switching from memory. You can save configurations to a networked PC or laptop using the web browser interface, but it takes almost 10 minutes to load a config so that may not be ideal.

You could also just quickly run Audyssey when you switch speakers, doing only one position at the "sweet spot" where you sit just to calibrate delays, levels, crossovers, plus activate Dynamic EQ/Vol for testing. If you have time it's best to run all 6-8 positions, but a 1-position run will still get you 90% of the way there, and provide basic EQ filters that will be close enough to work for testing. If you leave the mic and tripod out it should only take a couple of minutes to re-run and calculate/store each time.
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post #3403 of 7917
11/30/12 at 3:08pm
This is a different Pandora issue than the one we've been talking about for the last couple months...see below.

Important Announcement forDenon Customers Using Pandora Internet Radio

Dear Denon customer,


Please be advised that Pandora Internet Radio has recently altered certain connection requirements which have temporarily blocked our products from connecting to the Pandora service. Our engineers are currently working hard and will have a firmware update available as soon as possible via the internet to resolve this issue. This should not affect your product’s ability to receive other music streaming services. Please visit our website for firmware update schedule information after 12/6.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that Pandora’s alteration has caused.

AV Receivers:

AVR-1613, AVR-1713, AVR-1913, AVR-2113CI, AVR-2313CI, AVR-3313CI, AVR-4520CI, AVR-1912, AVR-2112CI, AVR-2312CI, AVR-3312CI, AVR-3311CI, AVR-991, AVR-4311CI, AVR-A100



Other Models:

DRA-N5, RCD-N7, DNP-720, DN-700H (Denon Professional)
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post #3404 of 7917
11/30/12 at 4:48pm
OK, thanks again batpig,

I must have missed the storing config files and that would help and 10 minutes is not a big deal in the scheme of things. It sounds basically the same as a one shot Audyssey calibration on my Onkyo TX-SR506. Manually setups after did not seem to add much.

As long as I can re-run the calibration again with another set of speakers, I don't mind the time. Now if I could find my camera tripod?
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post #3405 of 7917
11/30/12 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Anyone near a Fry's who is shopping for a new receiver should check this out, I just stopped by my local Fry's at lunch and the AVR 1913 is on sale for only $288:

Normally of course we advise that people step up to the 2113, however this price is so awesome that it's worth losing out on XT for most "budget" setups. Just a screaming deal on a new unit, cheaper than their price on the 1613!
They also have a great deal on Infinity Primus P163 bookshelf speakers -- only $53 each! Combined that would be an amazing budget starter setup.

Bummer, I wish I had seen your post yesterday. l just went to Frys and found out that sale expired yesterday frown.gif
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post #3406 of 7917
11/30/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L12

Thanks for the link, but none of that worked. After the EDID overrid failed and I was trying to get the display to show the desktop again I had a discovery. If I turned off\on the receiver when MC was up I ran into difficulties getting the display to show anythinng other than "weak signal". When it did show the desktop the screen had all kinds of lines and distortion. So I tried closing out of MC just to the desktop and powering down and up the receiver and poof it works. I'm not sure why yet, but maybe WMC is throwing some strange resolutions due to the DLP overscan settings? As it happens I have the machine setup to boot directly into WMC which might explain why it happens at every boot.

Going to try a few more things to prove it then either just delay the launch of WMC until after it is all settled or some other delay. Fingers crossed.
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post #3407 of 7917
11/30/12 at 7:25pm
So got my 1613 up and running the way I like it. ****ING ROCKS!!!! How I so do miss amazing sound. All four of my c300's are running like a boss. Just need to upgrade my sub and center. Thanks for all the help!




Edit:
So far, for movies, I've been using multi ch stereo. What do you guys use and is there anything else to further modify the sound I should look at?
Edited by 64deuce - 11/30/12 at 7:51pm
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post #3408 of 7917
11/30/12 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

the key thing to understand is that there is NO issue. That is normal and DESIRED operation -- some channels broadcast in 5.1 Dolby Digital, in which case the receiver locks onto the 5.1 signal and there is nothing left to do. When you turn to a channel with a stereo (2.0) broadcast, now Pro Logic becomes an option and the receiver uses Dolby PLII to upmix the 2.0 signal to 5.1 output.

Thank you. What threw me was my old denon unit doesn't change the display depending on the type of signal. When you select pro logic is stays set unless you change it. So far, the denon 2113 is working wonderfully.
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post #3409 of 7917
11/30/12 at 8:25pm
hi batpig ,

with a 2113CI , if using the Zone2 Preamp out's for listening to Stereo sources (analog CD in for example) in a second room utilizing the Preamp Out's for Zone 2 into an Emotiva amp for example w/o a volume control ...

are you stating that the volume passed to the Emovtiva amp via the preamp zone2 out on the 2113 would pass a constant volume of the analog CD audio ?

if this is the case, how does one have a separate amp in another room fed with the zone2 preamp stereo out to the amp in the other room with control of the volume?

would you have to go into another pre-amp from the Denon preamp zone2 outs then into the external amp? if so that would defeat the purpose of even needing the Denon.

if you cannot control the Zone2 material's volume from the 2113 into a separate amp using the preamp out's (most amps won't have a volume control) - then how would the zone2 audio be useful to a separate amp ?

i planned on using the zone2 preamp out's to an external amp in another room (to push my extra set of tower's with a more powerful amp for stereo music listening in another room) - all sounds well as i can control the Denon in another room via the Android amp but if there's no control of the volume of the Denon zone2 material using preamp out's into an external amp that also doesn't have volume controls - that's an issue (not able to control the volume) .

thanks
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post #3410 of 7917
11/30/12 at 9:43pm
Hi all,

I've got a AVR-3313 (not CI I don't think).

I've got 5.1 speakers in zone 1, and 2.0 in zone 2 on the powered outputs, with the amp assign set to "zone 2" mode.

I've got an HDMI source (AppleTV in the CBL/SAT plug) that I want to hear the audio for in both zone 1 and zone 2, but I can only seem to get it to play in zone 1. The audio is stereo PCM, so shouldn't be a major.

Ideally it'd be good to be able to hear it in *just* zone 2, while something else played in zone 1 with video etc, but I don't mind too much if I can't do that.

Any thoughts on how to accomplish this?

I'm certain that I had it working a while back, but I remember having to tinker with some 2ch playback settings to get stereo audio working OK in zone 1, and I didn't pay attention to whether zone 2 was working at the time and have forgotten what I did..
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post #3411 of 7917
11/30/12 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
Read here: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=160

No HDMI to Zone 2/3.

(Btw - unless you are not in North America you have the CI. There is no non CI 3311 in NA.)
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post #3412 of 7917
12/1/12 at 1:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by raupa01 View Post

Thank you. What threw me was my old denon unit doesn't change the display depending on the type of signal. When you select pro logic is stays set unless you change it. So far, the denon 2113 is working wonderfully.

Right. That's because your vintage AVR didn't process DD/DTS, rather it could only receive a stereo signal and then had to ALWAYS simulate 5.1 with Pro Logic whereas with newer AVRs there is no simulation required when a 5.1 signal is received.
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post #3413 of 7917
12/1/12 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hushdrops View Post

hi batpig ,
with a 2113CI , if using the Zone2 Preamp out's for listening to Stereo sources (analog CD in for example) in a second room utilizing the Preamp Out's for Zone 2 into an Emotiva amp for example w/o a volume control ...
are you stating that the volume passed to the Emovtiva amp via the preamp zone2 out on the 2113 would pass a constant volume of the analog CD audio ?
if this is the case, how does one have a separate amp in another room fed with the zone2 preamp stereo out to the amp in the other room with control of the volume?
would you have to go into another pre-amp from the Denon preamp zone2 outs then into the external amp? if so that would defeat the purpose of even needing the Denon.
if you cannot control the Zone2 material's volume from the 2113 into a separate amp using the preamp out's (most amps won't have a volume control) - then how would the zone2 audio be useful to a separate amp ?
i planned on using the zone2 preamp out's to an external amp in another room (to push my extra set of tower's with a more powerful amp for stereo music listening in another room) - all sounds well as i can control the Denon in another room via the Android amp but if there's no control of the volume of the Denon zone2 material using preamp out's into an external amp that also doesn't have volume controls - that's an issue (not able to control the volume) .
thanks

If you want to use an Emotiva amp, you'll need to upgrade to the 2313CI for variable Zone 2 volume control, otherwise, you'll need to use an external amp with volume control with a 2113CI. Note that the vast majority of Zone 2 users would be using an amp with volume control as opposed to an Emotiva amp.
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post #3414 of 7917
12/1/12 at 2:38am
batpig... how you liking that 2313, now that you've been using it for a while?
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post #3415 of 7917
12/1/12 at 3:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Read here: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=160
No HDMI to Zone 2/3.
(Btw - unless you are not in North America you have the CI. There is no non CI 3311 in NA.)

Ah, cheers.

Nope, not in NA, I'm in NZ :-)

I've got an optical output, can I use that in zone 2 on the 3313? I note your post refers to certain higher end ones where that's possible..

I used to have an Onkyo TX-NR609, but moved to this because I was under the impression there were two DACs so I wouldn't need an external one - is it just that this doesn't work on HDMI, or is there really only the one DAC? I might have to go shoot a sales person..

What receivers are there out there with two DACs that work on HDMI?
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post #3416 of 7917
12/1/12 at 3:35am
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M

The optical --> Zone 2 capabiity, although on previous 33XX models, was not carried forward to the 3313 (and no longer offered on any current Denon AVR to include the new flagship model 4520). Except for the newer AVR models that have a dedicated Zone 2 (HDMI) jack (eg. 3313), AVRs cannot downconvert HDMI ---> Zone 2. The only exception are the Yamaha Aventage series that can pass the same "Stereo" HDMI source playing in the main zone to Zone 2 (although this can be replicated by simply connecting the Zone 2 speakers to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts and setting them to "Front B."
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post #3417 of 7917
12/1/12 at 4:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_M
The optical --> Zone 2 capabiity, although on previous 33XX models, was not carried forward to the 3313 (and no longer offered on any current Denon AVR to include the new flagship model 4520). Except for the newer AVR models that have a dedicated Zone 2 (HDMI) jack (eg. 3313), AVRs cannot downconvert HDMI ---> Zone 2. The only exception are the Yamaha Aventage series that can pass the same "Stereo" HDMI source playing in the main zone to Zone 2 (although this can be replicated by simply connecting the Zone 2 speakers to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts and setting them to "Front B."

So, you're saying the 3313 can play HDMI audio in Zone 2?
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post #3418 of 7917
12/1/12 at 5:06am
Yes, when connected to an HDMI sink (ie. AVR or TV) from the Zone 2 (HDMI) jack.

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post #3419 of 7917
12/1/12 at 5:09am
So, if I were to plug a TV (or something) in to that plug, my 3313 would play the audio out the zone 2 powered speakers?

That seems like an odd limitation - can make it work without requiring something to be plugged in to the HDMI port?
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post #3420 of 7917
12/1/12 at 5:18am
No. You misunderstand the feature. Only analog audio or the on board network audio can pass to the powered Zone 2 speaker posts or the Zone 2/3 pre-outs. The Zone 2 (HDMI) is the only option to pass HDMI audio to Zone 2 speakers.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ