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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 129

post #3841 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Thanks for the feedback..... To clarify, I have the 5.1 system setup in my family room with 10 foot ceilings. The room is open to the kitcken on one side and has a archway to our living room which has 19 foot ceilings. Floors are all tile downstairs, so there is a bit of echoing even with rugs. The best buy guys said that based on the layout, Audyssey would cause more harm than good.
I wouldn't be surprised if this info was completely false and they were too lazy to run the program.... I just wanted some feedback from people on here who may have dealt with a similar setup. Based on the settings they put in I am underwhelmed with the system and it was pretty damn impressive in the store.
it's really easy to run the setup - I have a similarly sized room / setup as you describe and one strange this is that Audyssey knocks out quite a bit out at 100 hz on the center channel speaker and to me it sounds a bit too thin, especially movie dialogue / speech .

This is with both a 2113CI and now a 3313CI using the two diff MIC's. Also center channel speakers used have been - Polk cs10 (weak speaker period), Polk CS20 (great for movies but I switched from Polk's to superiod Pioneeer speakers for 1/3 of the price) , current center - Pioneer Andrew Jones designed CS22 (super articulate hi's) .

I use the option to customize the Audyssey flat EQ and bump up the 100hz range to near "O" as Audyssey sets the center at 100hz to like "negative 10" . For music / stereo I prefer Pure Direct (love the customer 2CH mode on the 3313CI for this) .

I bought a MIC boom stand from a local music shop and an adapter to allow use with a camera mount (which the Audyssey mic uses) - it only takes a few minutes to run thru the setup for 5.1 setup , definitely experiment - it's the only way to go as this is all so subjective - that nobody around here is an expert .....
post #3842 of 10465
^^
A few things to note ... the mic used with each of the XX13 models is the same mic. Also, when you use the "Graphic EQ" setting to manually adjust the 100Hz band, you are disabling Audyssey completely and only using a very crude graphic EQ (your choice of course). Using DIRECT/PURE DIRECT modes also disables Audyssey. So at least in your case, the Geek squad guys were correct (although not always the case).
post #3843 of 10465
Thanks JDSMOOTHIE
I have a 2113....

thanks for letting me know ;-(
post #3844 of 10465
@hushdrops...

actually, there are several "experts" around here, and several of us understand audyssey (as well as room acoustics) quite well, thank you..,

it's cutting for a reason (let me guess... your center channel is in a cabinet or slammed up against the wall...)... attempting to use the geq to mangle the eq curve isn't the solution... also, there is no "100 hz" adjustment...

furthermore, what you "see" on the sliders on the gui gives litte, if any, knowledge of what audyssey is actually doing...

furthermore, the geq supplied with the unit is essentially worthless... you can't really do anything useful (in terms of actual eq) with a 9 band geq... this is especially true in the octaves that fall in the modal and diffusion/diffraction areas of your room (which, unless you live in a gymnasium, 100hz will fall in)... if you were to meaure your response, you would see that the octave that you are adjusting actually is rather bumpy, and raising that octave 10db (!) is merely making a couple of peaks stronger (and not helping with nulls at all), which is what you are identifying as a "preference"...

furthermore, a properly equalized system will sound "good" for both movies AND music... your room does not make a distinction between the two... it has no way of knowing, and even if it did, it would not care... your "preference" for "pure direct" is based on two things, the first being "un-eq'd" sound is what you were used to, and the "knowledge" that the signal is "pure"... there is a grand total of zero chance that "pure direct" results in a "better" response (although you may "prefer" it)...

"you" may have a "preference" for what you are doing... however, other users are STRONGLY advised to not take advice based on this "preference"...

@ksigdawg...

join us in the audyssey faq thread, and we can help you... needless to say, it is unlikely that the bb guys are correct in saying "it won't help"...
post #3845 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Thanks for the feedback..... To clarify, I have the 5.1 system setup in my family room with 10 foot ceilings. The room is open to the kitcken on one side and has a archway to our living room which has 19 foot ceilings. Floors are all tile downstairs, so there is a bit of echoing even with rugs. The best buy guys said that based on the layout, Audyssey would cause more harm than good.

Adding to what others have already said.... My house is similar: the family room opens to a dinette/kitchen via a half-high wall and arch and is completely open to a foyer with ~18' ceiling on another side. Floors outside the subject room are wood instead of tile, but still not very absorbent. Running Audyssey in my 3313 (same version as 2113) provides a noticeable improvement.
post #3846 of 10465
Hi. any ideas why my blu ray play won't connect? I get a constant "no signal." The player works fine and so does the hdmi cable. IS there a certain setting im missing?
post #3847 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBrix View Post

Adding to what others have already said.... My house is similar: the family room opens to a dinette/kitchen via a half-high wall and arch and is completely open to a foyer with ~18' ceiling on another side. Floors outside the subject room are wood instead of tile, but still not very absorbent. Running Audyssey in my 3313 (same version as 2113) provides a noticeable improvement.

Thanks for the feedback.... I'm going to give Audyssey a shot and will see what it comes up with.
post #3848 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@hushdrops...

@ksigdawg...
join us in the audyssey faq thread, and we can help you... needless to say, it is unlikely that the bb guys are correct in saying "it won't help"...

Thanks, I am sure I will be asking multiple questions in that thread in the near future! biggrin.gif
post #3849 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_az View Post

Thank you for the prompt reply.
Are you or anyone else that has the 1913 able to test this? I ask because this is a major reason I would be getting the 1913 so I need to be sure. My current receiver has a huge number of steps to make this work, and my wife/daughter simply don't use it for that reason.
Thank you.

Is anyone able to please test this to confirm? Apologies if I've mangled the posts, but I want to know the following:

1. Using an iPhone/iPad/whatever initiate an AirPlay connection with the 1913 (or higher) and have the output going to both Main and Zone 2.

2. Put the receiver in standby

3. Using the iPhone/iPad/whatever initiate another AirPlay connection ... which I understand should turn the receiver back on

My question: is the output going to both Main and Zone 2 when the receiver turns back on? In other words, does the receiver remember if Main/Zone 2 were both on?

The reason I am asking is that I am hoping it is not necessary to turn on Zone 2 every time the receiver is turned on from standby. Thank you!
post #3850 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiesel77 View Post

Hi. any ideas why my blu ray play won't connect? I get a constant "no signal." The player works fine and so does the hdmi cable. IS there a certain setting im missing?

Wrong input on TV?
post #3851 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiesel77 View Post

Hi. any ideas why my blu ray play won't connect? I get a constant "no signal." The player works fine and so does the hdmi cable. IS there a certain setting im missing?

I was having an issue with my BluRay player on my 2113ci and found that by changing the Output Resolution to a fixed 1080p instead of the defaulted 'auto' it went away and all was good.

Seems that some things just won't 'communicate' properly with the 'auto' setting.
post #3852 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

I was having an issue with my BluRay player on my 2113ci and found that by changing the Output Resolution to a fixed 1080p instead of the defaulted 'auto' it went away and all was good.
Seems that some things just won't 'communicate' properly with the 'auto' setting.

THANK U ..but where how do i change this setting?
post #3853 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiesel77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

I was having an issue with my BluRay player on my 2113ci and found that by changing the Output Resolution to a fixed 1080p instead of the defaulted 'auto' it went away and all was good.
Seems that some things just won't 'communicate' properly with the 'auto' setting.

THANK U ..but where how do i change this setting?

It's a setting in the Blu-ray player itself. You'll have to look in its manual. If you have problems understanding the manual, please provide the exact manufacturer and model number of the player. Someone here might be able to help interpret it.
post #3854 of 10465
Uh no, not in the BluRay player, on the Denon.

1st select the input the bluray player is plugged into on the AVR, then go to Setup, Video, Output Settings, Resolution (HDMI) and change that from auto to 1080p.

I tried doing it on the BluRay and it didn't work.
post #3855 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

Uh no, not in the BluRay player, on the Denon.
1st select the input the bluray player is plugged into on the AVR, then go to Setup, Video, Output Settings, Resolution (HDMI) and change that from auto to 1080p.
I tried doing it on the BluRay and it didn't work.

there is actually a setting in the blu-ray as well for the output format which will also affect whether anything shows up on the output monitor (tv)...so the responder is actually correct.
post #3856 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

Uh no, not in the BluRay player, on the Denon.
1st select the input the bluray player is plugged into on the AVR, then go to Setup, Video, Output Settings, Resolution (HDMI) and change that from auto to 1080p.
I tried doing it on the BluRay and it didn't work.

the problem is i cant even get into setup. it says no signal and wont even let me get into setup.
post #3857 of 10465
^^^

OK, temporarily connect something that does work into the port you now use for the BluRay player and make the setting change. Then switch the connections back, wouldn't hurt to pull the power on the Denon to force a complete power cycling aftewards.

Hopefully that will fix your issue.
post #3858 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdiesel77 View Post

the problem is i cant even get into setup. it says no signal and wont even let me get into setup.

the way i had to get around this when my bdp player was in storage for a while was to do a reset of the BDP settings. you can find it online based on your manufacturer. once you do a reset, you should be able to get content to show back up on the tv. if not, you can try a couple other routes perhaps connect it to a different tv first to make your settings changes.
post #3859 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by swizzchard View Post

there is actually a setting in the blu-ray as well for the output format which will also affect whether anything shows up on the output monitor (tv)...so the responder is actually correct.

There is, and theoretically it should do the same thing, but on my setup it didn't. Had to make the setting on the AVR.
post #3860 of 10465
ok ill try that thanks
post #3861 of 10465
Hey all,

Just got my 2113 all hooked up (5.1 setup) and was hoping to pick your brains about an optimal surround set up for me. I've "set the defaults" (Movie, Music, Game, and Pure) for each input and signal type but not sure I fully understand what would be best for me. Part of this is almost certainly due to an incomplete understanding of Direct and Pure Direct. My understanding was that its primarily for music passthrough. As in, its primarily used with a Stereo source? But does it also passthrough multi channel sound?

I primarily watch content from xbmc on my htpc, but what I want is independent of source. Here's what I want:

1) Anytime the AVR receives a multi-channel (surround) source I want surround sound to play out of my speakers (I don't really understand the differences between DTS and Dolby. Whatever is most appropriate for each input signal as long as, for example, sound meant to only come out of the back right speaker only comes out of the back right speaker)

2) Anytime the AVR receives a stereo (or mono i guess) signal, I want stereo sound to come out of ALL my speakers. As in, instead of the righthand sound coming out of ONLY the Front Right speaker, I'd like the righthand sound coming out of BOTH the Front Right and Back Right speakers and vice versa (and I suppose the center channel to play both tracks).

That's it. I feel like that should be simple but my incomplete understanding of all the different modes has made it pretty difficult. I have a Harmony remote and I have mapped the Movie, Music, Game and Pure buttons and understand I may need to hit them occasionally but I'd like it to be as automatic as possible. Can anybody please help me out?
post #3862 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although the "Source Level" setting (p. 91 OM) can be used on other input sources, not sure it can be used on the USB input.

Just a quick follow-up for future reference... the Source Level for the USB input can be adjusted but whatever level you set will also be applied to the Network input. In otherwords, the AVR sees them as the same input for the purposes of setting the Source Level.

As a side note, I am considering pluggin my old iPhone back into the Cable/Sat analog audio inputs instead of the USB input. Should I expect a noticable reduction in sound quality? I don't remember hearing a difference when I plugged it into the USB for the first time but Denon claims the USB produces the best sound for digital sources. Is that claim just a marketing gimmick?
post #3863 of 10465
Thread Starter 
test it yourself with your own ears smile.gif

since you have an iPhone, why not stream with Airplay?
post #3864 of 10465
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethfeinberg View Post

Part of this is almost certainly due to an incomplete understanding of Direct and Pure Direct. My understanding was that its primarily for music passthrough. As in, its primarily used with a Stereo source? But does it also passthrough multi channel sound?

Direct is basically a "bypass switch" for ALL audio processing. That means no EQ, no tone controls, no "Restorer", and no bass management. Audio will not be re-routed from one channel to another. So whatever comes in on a channel, goes out to the relevant speaker.

So if you are listening to a 2ch input, and engage a Direct mode, the signal will go out to only the front 2 speakers (the only exception is if you activate "LFE+MAIN" in which case the sub will get a copy of the signal, i.e. "double bass").

If you are listening to a 5.1 input and engage a Direct mode, the audio will come out on 5 speakers and the LFE channel only will be played by the sub. The low end bass from the 5 main channels will not be played by the sub, even if speakers are set to "small". And if you have a 7.1 speaker setup, the rear surrounds will be silent.

So it's effectively just an "audio passthrough" mode that allows a one-button access to bypassing all audio processing.

That said... you should essentially NEVER actually use a Direct mode for a multichannel source, because all of that audio processing (bass management, Audyssey room EQ, Dynamic EQ, etc) is a GOOD thing smile.gif


Quote:
Here's what I want:

1) Anytime the AVR receives a multi-channel (surround) source I want surround sound to play out of my speakers (I don't really understand the differences between DTS and Dolby. Whatever is most appropriate for each input signal as long as, for example, sound meant to only come out of the back right speaker only comes out of the back right speaker)

2) Anytime the AVR receives a stereo (or mono i guess) signal, I want stereo sound to come out of ALL my speakers. As in, instead of the righthand sound coming out of ONLY the Front Right speaker, I'd like the righthand sound coming out of BOTH the Front Right and Back Right speakers and vice versa (and I suppose the center channel to play both tracks).


Number 1 should be happening automatically. If the receiver gets a multich source (e.g. "Dolby Digital 5.1") then that will be the default decoding, and will be the default memorized option for all three of the Game/Music/Movie modes.

Number 2 you need to set, but remember (if you haven't yet read this article at my website) that it is memorize by signal type AND by input. So if you are listening and you get a 2ch input, and you notice the receiver defaults to STEREO mode, just use the Music or Movie button to select your favored "upmix" mode (like Multich Stereo or Dolby PLII Music) and it should memorize it for the next time.
post #3865 of 10465
@batpig I did read that, thanks! Perfect summation and exactly what I was looking for. Care to offer any take on whether I should use MultiCh Stereo or trust the upmixing capabilities of Dolby PLII Music when listening to tunes? I'm having a hard time comprehending how a random sampling of music would benefit from some algorithmicly assigned surround sound logic.

On a different note, I read the "warning" on your webpage that running multiple cables to your display is the easiest, least stressful, way to achieve a mix of inputs for sound and video (ex: I want to play my Wii but listen to music from my HTPC), but I was wondering if you knew of a discrete, custom command in that dropbox hex code collection you link to in your harmony article. I looked briefly but couldn't find it and frankly, wasn't entirely sure what I was looking for. Basically I'm looking for a way to automate this process without having to actually drill into the Denon Input Assignment Submenu each time.
post #3866 of 10465
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Care to offer any take on whether I should use MultiCh Stereo or trust the upmixing capabilities of Dolby PLII Music when listening to tunes?

This specific area is truly a personal preference zone. Some people will want 2ch left as 2ch, some people like the "blast it all out" sound of MultiCH Stereo, others want the more subtly "steered" sound of a multich processing mode like PLII Music or DTS:Neo Music. It's also worth noting that the "Music" upmix modes have some adjustable parameters to allow you to tweak the soundfield.

I would make a playlist of some of your favorite tracks and then just spend some time experimenting. Also worth noting that if you use Dynamic EQ with music, you should set the "Reference Level Offset" down to 10 or 15 or else the bass can get muddy/boomy and the surrounds too loud (especially in multich stereo mode).

Personally, I prefer PLII Music mode at the default settings with a Reference Offset of 10dB, that works for me on the vast majority of my music. But it will vary by taste, room, etc.

Quote:
On a different note, I read the "warning" on your webpage that running multiple cables to your display is the easiest, least stressful, way to achieve a mix of inputs for sound and video (ex: I want to play my Wii but listen to music from my HTPC), but I was wondering if you knew of a discrete, custom command in that dropbox hex code collection you link to in your harmony article. I looked briefly but couldn't find it and frankly, wasn't entirely sure what I was looking for. Basically I'm looking for a way to automate this process without having to actually drill into the Denon Input Assignment Submenu each time.

to be honest I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. You wouldn't have to actually go in and reassign inputs if you are using the method of multiple connections to the display. The Harmony activities can automate the input switching, or you can program buttons on the LCD screen to switch inputs on the TV or receiver. No fancy discretes are needed, the input switching commands should be built into your Harmony.
post #3867 of 10465
Hey guys -

I just got and setup my 2113CI as an upgrade to the 2112. Only having one issue at the moment -


Setup with audyssey and the mic. When I am in Multi Chan Stereo mode from Airplay my subwoofer won't kick in at all. When I go to the "subwoofer level" menu in the Audio menu it is greyed out.

Works fine when playing from another source and have a surround mode selected. Any ideas? Is this intended? Can I force it to use the sub in that mode?

Thanks
post #3868 of 10465
Thread Starter 
Make sure your FR/FL speakers were not set to "large" after auto setup. If so, reset them to "small" and lift the crossover to 80Hz.

This is of course "Audyssey 101" smile.gif .... if you haven't yet, take some time to read through some of the links I have here and do a little background reading: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?page_id=37
post #3869 of 10465
Quote:
Originally Posted by sethfeinberg View Post

Here's what I want:
1) Anytime the AVR receives a multi-channel (surround) source I want surround sound to play out of my speakers (I don't really understand the differences between DTS and Dolby. Whatever is most appropriate for each input signal as long as, for example, sound meant to only come out of the back right speaker only comes out of the back right speaker)
2) Anytime the AVR receives a stereo (or mono i guess) signal, I want stereo sound to come out of ALL my speakers. As in, instead of the righthand sound coming out of ONLY the Front Right speaker, I'd like the righthand sound coming out of BOTH the Front Right and Back Right speakers and vice versa (and I suppose the center channel to play both tracks).
That's it. I feel like that should be simple but my incomplete understanding of all the different modes has made it pretty difficult. I have a Harmony remote and I have mapped the Movie, Music, Game and Pure buttons and understand I may need to hit them occasionally but I'd like it to be as automatic as possible. Can anybody please help me out?

It should do that anyway. As far as I understand using the 'multi channel stereo' surround mode will repeat the front left and rights to the rear left and rights, whilst playing both out of the centre speaker. It's the way I play my music/stereo movies/tv and I like it a lot.
As for your other question you should be in luck as I think that's the default behaviour. Whenever my 2313(and the 2113 I've also tried) detects a surround signal(DTS etc.) it plays that in it's native format, even when the stereo surround mode is set to multi-channel. It's one of the reasons I really like the Denon. I use XBMC as well so I can play some music in multi-channel stereo, then go back to the main menu and choose a surround sound movie and the Denon automatically starts playing in the correct format.

Edit: Nah, I should read more closely... Batpig already wrote most of what I said...
Edited by fatpizza - 12/13/12 at 8:24pm
post #3870 of 10465
Batpig,

That worked, Thanks a lot. I know you are the 'man' around here when it comes to these questions. I will def read that post too.

One other thing while I have your attention:

I know that the XX13 series allows you to airplay on Zone 2 while having a different video source.

I have a 7.1 setup going with 2 surround backs.

Am I right in assuming there is no way to have a different video source play on HDMI and airplay play on the whole 7.1 in MCH? The only thing I can do is convert my back 2 speakers to Zone2 and output airplay on that?
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