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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 17

post #481 of 7945
6/19/12 at 6:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, the 3312CI is a better buy. This was also just discussed over the weekend when Amazon was selling the 3312CI for $550 on their Gold Box deal ... refer to the last week of posts in the Denon XX12 Owner's thread linked in my sig.

Thanks, I will read that.

- 2113ci specs state "with AirPlay" and 3312 states "AirPlay Ready". What's the difference?
- Is the iPhone app the same for both?
- Is the "Advance GUI" interface same for both?
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post #482 of 7945
6/19/12 at 6:25am
I've heard a bunch of people talking about how the menus are better on the XX13 Denons. Denons are notoriously complicated from a menu perspective (hence the popularity of Batpig's guide).

Are the XX13 menus better enough to recommend them over the XX12 Denons to a first-time Denon buyer?
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post #483 of 7945
6/19/12 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teligent View Post

Thanks, I will read that.
- 2113ci specs state "with AirPlay" and 3312 states "AirPlay Ready". What's the difference?
- Is the iPhone app the same for both?
- Is the "Advance GUI" interface same for both?

1. Yes, both have Airplay installed, however, the 2113CI can have Airplay source playing independently to Zone 2 with another source in the main zone, while the 3312CI must have Airplay also playing in the main zone in order to play it in Zone 2, otherwise, they're both the same.
2. The current iPhone Denon REMOTE app apparently can control a few more items on the XX13 models then it can on the XX12 models. Review this post ----> http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/50_50#post_22029289, as well as the first two posts in this thread for more information on the XX13 models.
3. There are some minor differences, but not enough to switch for just the GUI.

2113 Advanced GUI

178

3312CI Advanced GUI

185
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/19/12 at 9:19am
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post #484 of 7945
6/19/12 at 6:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

I've heard a bunch of people talking about how the menus are better on the XX13 Denons. Denons are notoriously complicated from a menu perspective (hence the popularity of Batpig's guide).
Are the XX13 menus better enough to recommend them over the XX12 Denons to a first-time Denon buyer?

Not likely as far as the GUI is concerned, but then that would be a personal choice. You can compare the GUIs by simply looking at the various Owner manuals posted on Denon's website (although still waiting on the XX13 Owner manuals). The "Advanced" GUI (more graphic) is only featured on the 2312CI and 3312CI whereas on the XX13 models it has now moved down to the 1913 and higher. On the XX11 and XX10 models, the GUI is only featured on the 23XX series and higher models, the lower models using a block text menu on a black background. Beginning with the XX12 models, the GUI is now available on all models.

1712/1912 GUI (however, note the 1912 would show Audyssey MultEQ and not "XT")

183

1713 GUI

169

1913 Advanced GUI

176
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/19/12 at 9:25am
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post #485 of 7945
6/19/12 at 8:14am
Awright, I took the plunge and ordered 3312ci (instead of 2113ci) today for $650 shipped. Hope I made the right choice by going for a higher-end previous year model over lower-end current year model.

Keeping my fingers crossed and hopes high. smile.gif
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post #486 of 7945
6/19/12 at 8:16am
The benefit of going with the previous year's model is that any issues with the model are already known rather than having to work through them on a newer model. wink.gif
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post #487 of 7945
6/19/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The benefit of going with the previous year's model is that any issues with the model are already known rather than having to work through them on a newer model. wink.gif

That's true. Just finished reading your elaborate post on XX12 models. Thanks for a very nice and detailed write-up. I guess I got my work cut out for me when 3312 arrives later this week.

Now my search continues for the Family Room 5.1 setup. Still debating between 1612, 1513 and 1613. This system is primarily for casual listening and occasional TV/movie watching (when I don't feel like going down to lower level to fire up the whole HT). This system currently has Polk towers and center and Velodyne sub. Still looking for small surrounds that I can hide behind my recliner (cannot be placed appropriately for aesthetic reasons).

Networking and AirPlay are important but not critical (as I have ATV3 hooked to it). Any thoughts on which Denon receiver will fit the bill?
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post #488 of 7945
6/19/12 at 8:54am
^^
Definitely not the 1513 as there's no Audyssey on that model, which you want at the very least of features (there's no reason to scrimp on audio fidelity even with only "casual" listening especially when you have Audyssey downstairs). The 1613 provides iDevice/android control which is nice. With the 1612, although the ATV provides Airplay, you still have to walk over and turn the 1612 and select the ATV source input, whereas with the 1613 you could do all that while in another part of the house. Really just depends on what features the 1613 offers that you might prefer over the 1612 and whether the price difference is worth it. I likely would try to work out a deal with the same reseller of the 3312CI either way.
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post #489 of 7945
6/19/12 at 9:28am
Alright guys, I guess I'll be the 1ST to report a defected/broken unit! I received my 3313ci last Thursday/Friday. Setup it up, everything seems fine. On Sunday, I started to notice the Left Front speaker has no sound!! At first, I thought did I break the speaker somehow? eek.gif I unplugged the banana plug from the receiver, and plug it in the Right Front, it sounds fine! So not the speaker nor the wire.... So I went into the menu and see if there's any firmware update, yes, a new firmware is available, so I went ahead and updated. But it didn't fix the problem! Now, it mostly is either the center channel or the left surround channel that doesn't have any sound. Try run test tone from the receiver, still no sound comes out from either one of those two channels. IF I tap the top or the side of the receiver, the center channel usual will come back on! So, It's going back for an exchange now...... frown.gif
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post #490 of 7945
6/19/12 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Definitely not the 1513 as there's no Audyssey on that model, which you want at the very least of features (there's no reason to scrimp on audio fidelity even with only "casual" listening especially when you have Audyssey downstairs). The 1613 provides iDevice/android control which is nice. With the 1612, although the ATV provides Airplay, you still have to walk over and turn the 1612 and select the ATV source input, whereas with the 1613 you could do all that while in another part of the house. Really just depends on what features the 1613 offers that you might prefer over the 1612 and whether the price difference is worth it. I likely would try to work out a deal with the same reseller of the 3312CI either way.

I worked out the deal with the reseller and got 1713 for $325 shipped. smile.gif

Now that I will have 2 separate Denon receivers, I am assuming the iPhone app and AirPlay shouldn't have any trouble distinguishing the two devices. Has anyone tried controlling 2 separate receivers from the same Denon remote app?
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post #491 of 7945
6/19/12 at 10:02am
just ordered a AVR-3312. I got a couple questions regarding 3312 and 3313:

I have ATV 3, and I plan to connect it to AVR-3312 using HDMI. is there any way that I can watch Netflix using ATV3 while listenning to music airplayed from my ipad? if not, can the new AVT-3313 do this?
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post #492 of 7945
6/19/12 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Alright guys, I guess I'll be the 1ST to report a defected/broken unit! I received my 3313ci last Thursday/Friday. Setup it up, everything seems fine. On Sunday, I started to notice the Left Front speaker has no sound!! At first, I thought did I break the speaker somehow? eek.gif I unplugged the banana plug from the receiver, and plug it in the Right Front, it sounds fine! So not the speaker nor the wire.... So I went into the menu and see if there's any firmware update, yes, a new firmware is available, so I went ahead and updated. But it didn't fix the problem! Now, it mostly is either the center channel or the left surround channel that doesn't have any sound. Try run test tone from the receiver, still no sound comes out from either one of those two channels. IF I tap the top or the side of the receiver, the center channel usual will come back on! So, It's going back for an exchange now...... frown.gif

Prior to sending it back, try resetting the microprocessor first.
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post #493 of 7945
6/19/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

just ordered a AVR-3312. I got a couple questions regarding 3312 and 3313:
I have ATV 3, and I plan to connect it to AVR-3312 using HDMI. is there any way that I can watch Netflix using ATV3 while listenning to music airplayed from my ipad? if not, can the new AVT-3313 do this?

Not with an HDMI video source no, rather you would need to convert the HDMI--> component.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/19/12 at 10:18am
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post #494 of 7945
6/19/12 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Prior to sending it back, try resetting the microprocessor first.
Reason I wanna send it back instead of try to reset the microprocessor is since it's a brand new unit, I totally expecting it to run perfectly fine, at least basic function. If I have to give it a tap on the case or reset to make it runs correctly, in my eyes, there's something wrong. And to pay $1200 for a non perfectly running unit is just not acceptable to me. So I asked for an exchange while I'm still able to. Even if resetting works, I still want a different unit anyway 'cos I don't want it to happen again in the future when I'm out of warranty. And this is the first time I've ever encounter problem like this on any brand of AVR that I've owned (Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, etc.).
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post #495 of 7945
6/19/12 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Not with an HDMI video source no, rather you would need to convert the HDMI--> component.

that defeats the purpose of HDMI. What about the new AVR-3313? does it allow me to watch tv while airplaying in the main zone?
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post #496 of 7945
6/19/12 at 12:44pm
All Denon AVRs have the same no HDMI video restriction. Although not sure you would notice any difference using the converter, especially if seated > 8' from your display.
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post #497 of 7945
6/19/12 at 1:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

just ordered a AVR-3312. I got a couple questions regarding 3312 and 3313:

I have ATV 3, and I plan to connect it to AVR-3312 using HDMI. is there any way that I can watch Netflix using ATV3 while listenning to music airplayed from my ipad? if not, can the new AVT-3313 do this?

just to be clear, are you trying to "mix" one video stream (Netflix) with a different audio stream (AirPlay) in main zone, or are you asking if you can watch a Netflix movie in main zone while streaming Airplay to zone 2?
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post #498 of 7945
6/19/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

just to be clear, are you trying to "mix" one video stream (Netflix) with a different audio stream (AirPlay) in main zone, or are you asking if you can watch a Netflix movie in main zone while streaming Airplay to zone 2?

watching Netflix and airplay music on the main zone is what I am trying to set up.

what about the second scenario that you mention (zone 2)? can I watch netflix and aireplay to zone 2 at the same time?
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post #499 of 7945
6/19/12 at 2:23pm
^^
On a XX13 model yes, but not on the 3312CI using your suggested configuration (ie. ATV - Netflix, on board Airplay - Zone 2), although if you used another source for Netflix (ie. smart TV, PS3, xBox, roku, etc.) then you could use the ATV "audio" to Zone 2 via optical connection passing PCM 2.0.
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post #500 of 7945
6/19/12 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nlpearman View Post

I've heard a bunch of people talking about how the menus are better on the XX13 Denons. Denons are notoriously complicated from a menu perspective (hence the popularity of Batpig's guide).

Are the XX13 menus better enough to recommend them over the XX12 Denons to a first-time Denon buyer?

to add to what JD already posted....

first off, NO, the change in menu / GUI structure isn't going to turn it from difficult-to-setup to easy. Overall there have been improvements in the layout over the years but the biggest obstacle isn't actually the "Denon-ese" menus, it's more broadly just a lack of familiarity with the terms and concepts of modern receivers. Someone who is a total noob will probably have just as much trouble setting up an Onkyo or a Yamaha, and someone who is comfortable with modern AVR's will have no trouble transitioning from another brand to a Denon. There may be a slight learning curve to get the "Denon system" but the steeper part of the curve isn't brand specific.

second, in addition to the visuals that JD provided there has actually been a structural change to the xx13 menu system.

on XX12 models and earlier, the menu structure was:

- Audio/Video Adjust (where you change on-the-fly parameters)
- Setup Wizard (formerly called "Auto Setup", where you run Audyssey)
- System Setup (formerly called "Manual Setup", a catch-all menu for pretty much every other setting)
- Input Setup (where you assign inputs and make input-specific settings like video processing)
- Information (contains info about audio input, HDMI resolution, etc)

on xx13 models, the new structure is:

- Audio (adjust audio parameters)
- Video (adjust video parameters including video processing, GUI/volume options, etc)
- Inputs (input specific settings)
- Speakers (run Audyssey or manually configure speaker settings)
- Network (self explanatory)
- General (catch-all for other stuff like zone 2 settings, display dimmer, etc)
- Setup Assistant

So on the surface it seems to be more logical in the sense that you don't have to dive several layers deep to access basic network settings, the video settings aren't disbursed among Input Setup and other areas, etc.
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post #501 of 7945
6/20/12 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdunwoody View Post

After some more searching, I think that a Gefen GTV-AUDDEC box could help me do this: http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvproduct.jsp?prod_id=8202 My current thinking is to put all A/V sources and a 3313CI in my wiring closet, with 3313CI driving Zone1 5.1 speakers directly. GTV-AUDDEC connected to 3313CI Zone2 HDMI output, would produce two identical Zone2 HDMI outputs with audio downmixed to 2.0, for driving a small/simple 1080p TV setup (perhaps adding powered external speakers for better 2.0 sound). Each of these Zone2 HDMI outputs could be forwarded to a TV in another room via single CAT6 cable carrying HDMI, Ethernet, and IR, via Monoprice 8123 HDBase-T extender.

I spoke with a Gefen tech about this product as well as the GTV-HDMI-2-HDMIAUD, and he indicated that if the Zone 2 display can only accept a stereo 2.0 signal then the EDID on the input side of both products would be 2.0 as well. What this means is that although either converter would do what you want when playing an independent 5.1 source to Zone 2, if you want to play the same 5.1 source to both the main zone and Zone 2 displays, the AVR would most likely force the source device to only pass stereo 2.0 audio as would be the case if you just had the source device connected to an external 1:2 HDMI with one output going the Zone 2 TV and the 2nd output going to the AVR.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/20/12 at 9:13am
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post #502 of 7945
6/20/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 1613 provides iDevice/android control which is nice.

There is an Android app, but it's not from Denon. It's mostly functional, but it has a handful of obnoxious bugs (e.g. it loses its connection to the receiver sometimes, and it can't switch the input to FM tuner). Denon claims to have Android support, but the official app isn't available yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxnews View Post

watching Netflix and airplay music on the main zone is what I am trying to set up.
what about the second scenario that you mention (zone 2)? can I watch netflix and aireplay to zone 2 at the same time?

To be totally clear, based on my experience with my new 2313:

Yes, you can choose different audio and video sources in the main zone. I think one of the sources has to be analog (i.e. not HDMI and not coax or optical), because the receiver only has one digial-to-analog path, but I have not tried that to confirm. This won't interfere with your Netflix + Airplay case.

You can stream Airplay to Zone 2 while something else plays in the Main Zone, but you should know that when you initiate the airplay connection, the Main Zone's input setting will change to Network and it will start playing the AirPlay stream. You'll then have to set Zone 2's input source to Network (unless it was already), and then you can change the Main Zone's input back to whatever it was you actually wanted. I am not 100% sure (I've only had the new receiver set up since Monday), but I think that if Zone 2's input is already Network and the last thing it was doing was playing an AirPlay stream, you get to bypass all of the hijacking nonsense and the Main Zone will not get interrupted. Note that any time an AirPlay stream is active, you can set either zone's input to Network and it will pick up the stream, including both at the same time.
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post #503 of 7945
6/20/12 at 9:53am
^^
Denon's Android app has been delayed although should be out by the end of this month.
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post #504 of 7945
6/20/12 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Yes, you can choose different audio and video sources in the main zone. I think one of the sources has to be analog (i.e. not HDMI and not coax or optical), because the receiver only has one digial-to-analog path, but I have not tried that to confirm.

are you SURE about that? In the past it was impossible to "mix" two inputs unless both were non-HDMI.

to be clear, what he wants to do is be watching Netflix video (streamed via HDMI from his ATV) and then "mix" that HDMI video with audio pulled in from AirPlay (using the "Network" source). Are you saying this is possible? And if so can you test to confirm and report how you did it?

again, in the past this would not be possible, and I'm skeptical that it is now as well. You have a "Video Source" control in Input Setup (formerly called "Video Select") but it clearly states in the manual that "it is not possible to select HDMI input signals" just like it has in the past.

it IS possible to "mix" two different input TYPES (i.e., HDMI vs. SPDIF vs. analog) by having them assigned to the same input "name" and using the "Input Mode" to select the audio stream you want, but you can't do this with the "Network" source as it isn't a physical input on the receiver that can be mapped to a different name.
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post #505 of 7945
6/20/12 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by landshark1 View Post

Alright guys, I guess I'll be the 1ST to report a defected/broken unit! I received my 3313ci last Thursday/Friday. Setup it up, everything seems fine. On Sunday, I started to notice the Left Front speaker has no sound!! At first, I thought did I break the speaker somehow? eek.gif I unplugged the banana plug from the receiver, and plug it in the Right Front, it sounds fine! So not the speaker nor the wire.... So I went into the menu and see if there's any firmware update, yes, a new firmware is available, so I went ahead and updated. But it didn't fix the problem! Now, it mostly is either the center channel or the left surround channel that doesn't have any sound. Try run test tone from the receiver, still no sound comes out from either one of those two channels. IF I tap the top or the side of the receiver, the center channel usual will come back on! So, It's going back for an exchange now...... frown.gif
Well allow me to be the second. I received my 3313 yesterday, hooked it up this evening and no output on any of the speakers. It's replacing a 3808 so re-hooking things up was breeze. I've tried all inputs including the tuner. It's GUI displays on the TV. It's not a matter of it's muted wink.gif. I've tried the processor reset and I let it take the firmware update and those didn't fix it. I've also tried letting it run the calibration but it errors out telling me to check the microphone or speakers. I'm open to suggestions but I think I got a dead on arrival unit mad.gif
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post #506 of 7945
6/20/12 at 6:58pm
I was reading through the manual for my 1913, and it says for video passed through the GAME port, it automatically adjusts picture settings for games. it says something along those lines for other ports as well, anyone know exactly how it adjusts?
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post #507 of 7945
6/20/12 at 7:12pm


I don't have speakers yet, just the AVR and I set it up to pass the audio to TV via HDMI. It works as expected for my cable, BD and a WD-TV Live, which are all hooked up to the AVR via HDMI. However, I cannot hear any sound when I play radio, internet radio, or air-play - even though the GUI indicates that it is playing. Is this because these sources are not HDMI? If so, is there a way to setup this unit to play these sources in the TV's speakers? I searched the menu but did not find a solution..

Thanks for help!
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post #508 of 7945
6/20/12 at 9:06pm
2113 - just picked mine up the other day. I was testing both dlna on my vt50 vs the denon and I have to say I'm rather disappointed because denon does not let you stream video via dlna or I have yet to figure it out.

Any thoughts on this? Perhaps a firmware upgrade to resolve this? Or add this feature in?

Otherwise it's a good receiver and I'm looking forward to many happy years.

Kevin
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post #509 of 7945
6/20/12 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kajung2k View Post

2113 - just picked mine up the other day. I was testing both dlna on my vt50 vs the denon and I have to say I'm rather disappointed because denon does not let you stream video via dlna or I have yet to figure it out.
Any thoughts on this? Perhaps a firmware upgrade to resolve this? Or add this feature in?
Otherwise it's a good receiver and I'm looking forward to many happy years.
Kevin

I doubt this is possible. The receiver is primarily an audio device, and it doesn't have the horsepower or hardware it would need to decode and decompress video.
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post #510 of 7945
6/21/12 at 4:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brschmid View Post

I was reading through the manual for my 1913, and it says for video passed through the GAME port, it automatically adjusts picture settings for games. it says something along those lines for other ports as well, anyone know exactly how it adjusts?

The reference is to the "Video Mode" setting (p. 106) which attempts to minimize the audio sync issue when processing video.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ