The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 167

Originally Posted by ceh383 

If I am reading this correctly, the Comcast guy has no clue. A single port router is just that, a router. A router with multiple ports is a router and a switch built into one. Most home networks run C class private addresses ie: 192.168.xxx.xxx. These addresses are not meant to to be routed, some routers will and some routers won't work with private addressing, and if yours will work with private addressing you need to set up a routing table. Dump the second router, install a 10/100/1000 switch and speed won't be the issue. If what you have downstairs is a true "hub" that can cause speed issues.

Originally Posted by jdsmoothie 

1. Yup. The manual is misleading in this respect as any "high speed" HDMI cable can be used (ie. don't pay the extra money on a cable with ethernet capability as this feature has not been implemented on any current model AVR Denon or otherwise).
2. Of course it's intended for surround sound use. The limitation however, is that the HDMI(ARC) audio from the TV is limited to only stereo 2.0 audio on many TVs while using the optical audio out can pass DD 5.1 in some cases.
3. If your Roku and Apple TV are connected to the AVR as you indicate, then ARC audio does not come into play.

Originally Posted by Bpolack 

Well kindof.. The new house came pre wired with ethernet. The comcast router upstairs has a single port which feeds to a panel/hub in the basement. The Comcast guy said I would be better off connecting another router there with multiple ports to feed the house (Than the alternative of a slower switch?) So basically the Dlink is the wired feed; AND I only connect wirelessly directly to the Comcast Router.

Originally Posted by jdsmoothie 

You can make a wired connection from the laptop to the AVR or try the following ...

http://ludwigstuyck.wordpress.com/2012/07/27/streaming-spotify-to-dlna-device-over-network/

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

Alden,

Invoking a restore point usually eliminates quirks introduced by poorly designed software packages. Some installs automatically create restore points, but at the worst you can go back to the one created just before the most recent Microsoft security update. Then reinstall the update, of course!

Originally Posted by aidenNYC 


Thanks Selden. But as a noob when it comes to this, I have no idea how to do this. Any chance you could give me the steps?

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

The instructions below are for Win7. Win8 is similar.. XP is more involved.

Instructions: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/fixtheproblem/ht/system-restore-windows-7.htm

Restore point info: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa378910%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Restore point FAQ: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/System-Restore-frequently-asked-questions#

Originally Posted by Ak Gara 

I have a question about the 2113's Bi-Amping ability.

The 2113 I got gives you many options how to use the last 2 speakers in a 7.1 setup. Zone 2, next to your Fronts (Fronts B), above your fronts (Front Height), Surround Back, and Bi-Amp.

Does setting it to Bi-Amp then split the Fronts to Woofer and Tweeter on the Crossover section of the options menu? Because if not, then surly the same data will still be being sent to both the woofer and the tweeter, the woofer will still try to play the high notes, and the tweeter will still try to play the low notes.

Not that it matters, as my TSI-100's aren't Bi-ampable. (yet monitor 30's are?)

Originally Posted by batpig 

You didn't mention what model you have, but since you mention TWO different additional zones does that mean you have the 3313ci? Or when you talk about "2 zones" are you referring to main zone and zone 2?

Regardless, it sounds like the issue is simply that you are trying to do two separate NETWORK sources to each zone, which is not possible. The receiver can only support one active network stream at a time. As a test, for example, try playing a non-network source (e.g. your cable box or Blu-ray player) in main zone and then see if you can fire up internet radio independently in the other zone.

Originally Posted by fewleh 

Damnit. This is exactly what we are trying to do. And what I was beginning to suspect. (We have the 2113, just 2 zones).

So, what would people advise to get internet radio in 2 zones? What's the cheapest option I guess I mean. Buy a standalone internet radio, and wire it in via the 'aux' input?

Originally Posted by aidenNYC 


Thanks. I was able to create a restore point, but there are no other restore points listed, just the one i just created. I clicked on the box to find other restore point and no other ones came up. I created the restore point and restarted but still have the same issue. There are no restore points from before I installed the program, so the new one I created wouldn't have any affect (i assume, but don't know).

What I also noticed is when I have the laptop connected to the TV and the receiver turned to Cbl/Sat, I am getting the audio from the TV channel that is on, even though I am on a different input (the input for the hdmi cable to the laptop), not the receiver input. So I am hearing the TV audio but viewing my laptop on the TV. As far as I can remember I always had the receiver on Cab/Sat and the input of the HDMI cable from the laptop to the TV and had audio from my receiver, not the TV.

Originally Posted by batpig 


Do you have any devices that can serve as a DLNA streaming client? Or can stream music themselves? Game systems (like PS3) and most current Blu-ray players have network features built in. You could use one to stream to main zone and the built-in receiver network streaming to stream to the other zone.

Originally Posted by batpig 

Do you have any devices that can serve as a DLNA streaming client? Or can stream music themselves? Game systems (like PS3) and most current Blu-ray players have network features built in. You could use one to stream to main zone and the built-in receiver network streaming to stream to the other zone.

Originally Posted by batpig 

Do you have any devices that can serve as a DLNA streaming client? Or can stream music themselves? Game systems (like PS3) and most current Blu-ray players have network features built in. You could use one to stream to main zone and the built-in receiver network streaming to stream to the other zone.

Originally Posted by batpig 

A little story about sound quality...

Yesterday I had the day off for MLK Day and I ended up at a local Best Buy which has a Magnolia department. Apparently all of the employees were on vacation too because there was nobody around... which is how I like it, because the BB sales monkeys only make my life harder when I'm browsing.

So I wandered into the empty "high end" Magnolia listening room which contains a wall full of receivers as well as multiple different subs, speakers, etc. on tap to test out. There is a touch screen computer interface to control what combo of source + receiver + speakers are being used, which was pretty easy for me to figure out, so I fired up their demo disc and started listening to the various speakers.

I noticed they had four Denon models available -- 1713, 2113, 2313, and 3313 (interestingly, the non XT models, 1613 and 1913, are in the "regular" Best Buy stereo section). I confirmed that all four receivers were set up identically (the Best Buy monkeys just leave them at factory defaults but I verified speaker trims, bass management, etc. just in case) and set them all to DIRECT mode to eliminate any other variables. I set each receiver to the same obnoxiously loud volume (65-70, or -10 to -15 on the dB scale) and cranked some music in 'pure' 2 channel stereo. After futzing around with various speakers, I settled on a pair of B&W CM9 towers which are extremely nice, $3k/pair of tower speakers with strong bass and a very detailed, revealing sound. I made sure that there was no subwoofer or additional speakers playing, so this was as pure of a test of full-range 2ch stereo quality possible.

With each receiver set to the identical volume, playing the identical source, all in DIRECT mode with these very nice speakers playing some high quality music demo material, I was able to easily toggle between any of the four Denon models and see if I could hear any difference in "raw" sound quality.

Bottom line: I couldn't. Even cranked to close-to-uncomfortably-loud volumes with a $3k pair of speakers, the little $449 msrp 1713 sounded identical with the $1,200 msrp 3313ci.

The touch screen setup allowed me to do near instantaneous (1-2 second pause while switching) A/B comparisons of any pair of receivers I wanted... so I tried 3313 vs. 2313, 2113 vs. 1713, 3313 vs. 1713, etc. There were times when switching from the 3313 to the 1713 I thought I detected that the more expensive unit had a bit more refinement, perhaps a little more "air" in the treble and a bit more "fullness" in the bass... but I found it difficult to hear this reliably and I doubt it would have held up in a blind test if I had a partner to do the switching for me.

Complicating this potentially tiny difference however, I was examining the front panel displays and noticed that the 3313 read "ANA" whereas the 1713 showed "DIG / PCM", meaning that the 3313 model was hooked up with analog RCA's whereas the 1713 had an optical digital input. So it is entirely possible (even likely) that any minuscule perceived difference could simply have been due to the ADC stage in the 3313.

As we know, all of these receivers have the same basic components, same DACs, same DSP chips, etc. so this really confirmed for me that there is no real difference in "raw" quality among these consumer units. So don't pay more for the higher level unit unless you actually will use the extra features!! To be fair, there could be a situation where the sturdier amp section of the 2313/3313 models (which are larger and heavier and have a different chassis) could provide some small benefit, but I think it's safe to assume that any difference in SQ among the current Denon lineup will come only from different room correction (regular MultEQ vs. XT) or other processing (e.g. Audyssey DSX).

Unfortunately they didn't have a 4520CI to compare; apparently Best Buy Magnolia isn't stocking these in-store anymore. It would have been interesting to hear this model as, in theory, it should have superior raw sound quality due to much beefier construction, better DAC's, more DSP chips, etc.

In case anyone was wondering, I also spent some time comparing the Denon models to a Pioner Elite VSX-60. I am not as familiar with Pios but I tried my best to configure it the same, setting it to "Source Direct" mode in stereo so it was also playing a full-range, unprocessed stereo signal. I also had to level match by ear because couldn't be certain that the volume scale was the same. But, for what it's worth, I couldn't hear a lick of difference there either. This confirms what really should be expected -- modern, solid state electronics gear should sound essentially identical in a controlled, level matched A/B sound comparison. Any differences in SQ between brands are only due to room correction and other DSP processing.

Originally Posted by batpig 

A little story about sound quality...

Yesterday I had the day off for MLK Day and I ended up at a local Best Buy which has a Magnolia department. (---snip---)

Originally Posted by fewleh 

We could move the 'readynas duo' on the network, so it is physically sat on top of the denon. Is that any help? Or does it stil need to be accessed over the network?

Originally Posted by Selden Ball 

Sorry, I can't help with the latter problem. I don't use an external cable box, just the TV's internal tuner.

Unfortunately, without a pre-existing restore point to invoke, the problem isn't going to be changed, and fixing your system is going to be much more difficult. Something you might try is CCleaner (http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner) Do both a registry and a disk cleanup. Otherwise, try contacting the program's authors or forum. They should be able to help.

There really, really should have been a restore point created when the monthly Microsoft patches were applied a couple of weeks ago. Were restore points previously disabled, perhaps? If you have updates disabled, then you're leaving your computer vulnerable to serious malware infestations, even if you only occasionally install software recommended by others ... like the package you installed recently and had to remove. At any rate, you mignt consider increasing the amount of space preallocated on your system disk for restore points to make sure they continue to be recorded.

Originally Posted by batpig 

A little story about sound quality...

Yesterday I had the day off for MLK Day and I ended up at a local Best Buy which has a Magnolia department. Apparently all of the employees were on vacation too because there was nobody around... which is how I like it, because the BB sales monkeys only make my life harder when I'm browsing.

So I wandered into the empty "high end" Magnolia listening room which contains a wall full of receivers as well as multiple different subs, speakers, etc. on tap to test out. There is a touch screen computer interface to control what combo of source + receiver + speakers are being used, which was pretty easy for me to figure out, so I fired up their demo disc and started listening to the various speakers.

I noticed they had four Denon models available -- 1713, 2113, 2313, and 3313 (interestingly, the non XT models, 1613 and 1913, are in the "regular" Best Buy stereo section). I confirmed that all four receivers were set up identically (the Best Buy monkeys just leave them at factory defaults but I verified speaker trims, bass management, etc. just in case) and set them all to DIRECT mode to eliminate any other variables. I set each receiver to the same obnoxiously loud volume (65-70, or -10 to -15 on the dB scale) and cranked some music in 'pure' 2 channel stereo. After futzing around with various speakers, I settled on a pair of B&W CM9 towers which are extremely nice, $3k/pair of tower speakers with strong bass and a very detailed, revealing sound. I made sure that there was no subwoofer or additional speakers playing, so this was as pure of a test of full-range 2ch stereo quality possible.

With each receiver set to the identical volume, playing the identical source, all in DIRECT mode with these very nice speakers playing some high quality music demo material, I was able to easily toggle between any of the four Denon models and see if I could hear any difference in "raw" sound quality.

Bottom line: I couldn't. Even cranked to close-to-uncomfortably-loud volumes with a $3k pair of speakers, the little $449 msrp 1713 sounded identical with the $1,200 msrp 3313ci.

The touch screen setup allowed me to do near instantaneous (1-2 second pause while switching) A/B comparisons of any pair of receivers I wanted... so I tried 3313 vs. 2313, 2113 vs. 1713, 3313 vs. 1713, etc. There were times when switching from the 3313 to the 1713 I thought I detected that the more expensive unit had a bit more refinement, perhaps a little more "air" in the treble and a bit more "fullness" in the bass... but I found it difficult to hear this reliably and I doubt it would have held up in a blind test if I had a partner to do the switching for me.

Complicating this potentially tiny difference however, I was examining the front panel displays and noticed that the 3313 read "ANA" whereas the 1713 showed "DIG / PCM", meaning that the 3313 model was hooked up with analog RCA's whereas the 1713 had an optical digital input. So it is entirely possible (even likely) that any minuscule perceived difference could simply have been due to the ADC stage in the 3313.

As we know, all of these receivers have the same basic components, same DACs, same DSP chips, etc. so this really confirmed for me that there is no real difference in "raw" quality among these consumer units. So don't pay more for the higher level unit unless you actually will use the extra features!! To be fair, there could be a situation where the sturdier amp section of the 2313/3313 models (which are larger and heavier and have a different chassis) could provide some small benefit, but I think it's safe to assume that any difference in SQ among the current Denon lineup will come only from different room correction (regular MultEQ vs. XT) or other processing (e.g. Audyssey DSX).

Unfortunately they didn't have a 4520CI to compare; apparently Best Buy Magnolia isn't stocking these in-store anymore. It would have been interesting to hear this model as, in theory, it should have superior raw sound quality due to much beefier construction, better DAC's, more DSP chips, etc.

In case anyone was wondering, I also spent some time comparing the Denon models to a Pioner Elite VSX-60. I am not as familiar with Pios but I tried my best to configure it the same, setting it to "Source Direct" mode in stereo so it was also playing a full-range, unprocessed stereo signal. I also had to level match by ear because couldn't be certain that the volume scale was the same. But, for what it's worth, I couldn't hear a lick of difference there either. This confirms what really should be expected -- modern, solid state electronics gear should sound essentially identical in a controlled, level matched A/B sound comparison. Any differences in SQ between brands are only due to room correction and other DSP processing.