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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 169

post #5041 of 10468
I seem to have an HDMI pass through issue with a new Samsung TV. I have CEC turned on and the Samsung switched to internal speakers, this way my receiver only turns on when I want to use surround. When I turn on the TV, the cable service is running, for about 5 seconds. Then I get an error stating no signal. To fix it, turn on the AVR, cable signal starts, turn off the AVR, all good. This is consistent every time I turn on the TV.

Any thoughts on what to check, I have my STB connected through the SAT/CATV HDMI port on the 1913.
In the CEC settings, I have HDMI source set to last source.

thanks all
post #5042 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Interesting, do you have HDMI Control on? On older models that still had switched outlets there was an issue that the outlets wouldn't switch off when the receiver powered down because the HDMI circuitry was still active and the voltage draw on the receiver was too high. I wonder if the same thing is happening here.

Another possibility is network standby being active, the USB and network inputs are conjoined so maybe having IP control active in standby keeps the USB port powered on.

EDIT: I just tested this by plugging in my iPhone into the front USB port of my 2113. It's the IP Control setting. When set to "always on" the iPhone charges even when the receiver is in standby. When i switched it off, the iPhone doesn't charge with the receiver in standby. I do not use HDMI control.

I changed the setting on the IP control and now the USB port turns off when the AVR turns off - exactly as I was hoping. Thanks for the help with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post

If you really think about it, you don't want the fan on only when the AVR is on. You want the fan on when the AVR is hot enough to need the fan. This will be sometime after the AVR is switched on until sometime after the AVR is switched off.

What if you can find a temperature-controlled switch?

I did look into this option and found some from the store I bought my simple fans from, but the price difference was more than I wanted to pay. Besides, if my fans keep the AVR cool from the get-go, then it won't be too hot when I turn it (and the fans) off.
post #5043 of 10468
Quote:
On the receiver side, the only thing that you need to do to get ARC working is have HDMI Control enabled and then tune to the "TV Audio" source. And of course in the case of 2313 or 3313 with more than one HDMI output, you need to make sure the Control Monitor is the HDMI output you are using to the TV. Sounds like you have done all this already.

After that, the receiver is ready to accept an audio stream and everything else is on the TV side. Make sure that VieraLink is on and that the audio setting in the TV is set to "External Speakers" or "Home Theater" or whatever they call it.

I've tried this, and still no luck. I spoke with an AV installer, who tells me the ARC function is hit or miss, and unpredictable -- he recommended using the digital audio output from the TV. Or getting a Blue Ray player to serve up the Netflix.

Is anyone else using ARC?
post #5044 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by blind99 View Post

I've tried this, and still no luck. I spoke with an AV installer, who tells me the ARC function is hit or miss, and unpredictable -- he recommended using the digital audio output from the TV. Or getting a Blue Ray player to serve up the Netflix.

Is anyone else using ARC?

I'm using ARC with my VT50 and 1913 and it works great. As soon as I go to something on the TV, such as YouTube, I have the audio coming through the Denon.

I think this shows it works on the Denon, the biggest hit or miss piece is the TV.
post #5045 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpovolo View Post

I seem to have an HDMI pass through issue with a new Samsung TV. I have CEC turned on and the Samsung switched to internal speakers, this way my receiver only turns on when I want to use surround. When I turn on the TV, the cable service is running, for about 5 seconds. Then I get an error stating no signal. To fix it, turn on the AVR, cable signal starts, turn off the AVR, all good. This is consistent every time I turn on the TV.

Any thoughts on what to check, I have my STB connected through the SAT/CATV HDMI port on the 1913.
In the CEC settings, I have HDMI source set to last source.

thanks all

HDMI handshake issues are common with cable/sat boxes. It's generally recommended if you have these sort of issues to connect the cable/sat box directly to the TV via HDMI with optical audio going to the AVR.
post #5046 of 10468
PHANTOM CENTER

I thought I'd experiment with a phantom center channel with my 2113, but when I go into speaker config and set the center to "none" it doesn't seem to give me much of a phantom center. Anyone using phantom have any tips? Do I need to re-run Audyssey to get the phantom to work right? Could be my FL/R speaker placement, but wanted to make sure I'm setting up the AVR correctly before moving things around.
post #5047 of 10468
Hey guys. I just got 1713 after returning Yamaha rxv673. I can't figure out how to set the 1713 that if i don't want the AV on, but want to watch TV , it still passes the signal through (it was possible with Yamaha).If it is not possible with this unit, i might return it. I red the manual but couldn't find any info on this. Can someone give me any hint? Thanks in advance.
post #5048 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

PHANTOM CENTER

I thought I'd experiment with a phantom center channel with my 2113, but when I go into speaker config and set the center to "none" it doesn't seem to give me much of a phantom center. Anyone using phantom have any tips? Do I need to re-run Audyssey to get the phantom to work right? Could be my FL/R speaker placement, but wanted to make sure I'm setting up the AVR correctly before moving things around.

I'm running a phantom center with my 2112. I was initially disappointed after running Audyssey, but adjusting the Dynamic EQ offsets made a huge difference. Changing Dyn Vol to "Day" (the lightest application of Dyn Vol) also helped in my setting. I'd tinker around with adjusting those setting before moving your speakers and re-running Audyssey.

Depending upon your listening position relative to your mains, a phantom center may or may not work well in your setup. There have been a couple of recent threads re: phantom centers in the Speaker sub-forum, so you may find some help there as well. Good luck.
post #5049 of 10468
I'm playing with my sub settings on my 1613. In the Audyssey 101 thread, they recommend turning your lowpass to it's highest setting while doing Audyssey. Does everyone keep it at that setting are does everyone eventually turn it down?
post #5050 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superhq View Post

Hey guys. I just got 1713 after returning Yamaha rxv673. I can't figure out how to set the 1713 that if i don't want the AV on, but want to watch TV , it still passes the signal through (it was possible with Yamaha).If it is not possible with this unit, i might return it. I red the manual but couldn't find any info on this. Can someone give me any hint? Thanks in advance.

This was just discussed a few posts back: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/5010#post_22870030
post #5051 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I'm playing with my sub settings on my 1613. In the Audyssey 101 thread, they recommend turning your lowpass to it's highest setting while doing Audyssey. Does everyone keep it at that setting are does everyone eventually turn it down?

No, you don't turn it down. The point is to get it out of the way because the receiver is handling the bass management (crossovers). You don't want "double filters" interfering with each other.

You do not want to touch any of the controls on the sub itself after calibrating with Audyssey.
post #5052 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

PHANTOM CENTER

I thought I'd experiment with a phantom center channel with my 2113, but when I go into speaker config and set the center to "none" it doesn't seem to give me much of a phantom center. Anyone using phantom have any tips? Do I need to re-run Audyssey to get the phantom to work right? Could be my FL/R speaker placement, but wanted to make sure I'm setting up the AVR correctly before moving things around.

There is nothing to set up on the AVR besides turning the center channel off (setting it "none"). That will redirect all center channel content to the main speakers. There is no special processing involved in a "phantom center", it's simply the ability of the FR/FL main speakers to image properly, the foundation for stereo music reproduction.

Are your speakers toed in? This will greatly impact their ability to image properly and make it feel like the in-phase content is truly coming fro the "center". Also, a phantom center only really works perfectly if you are sitting in the sweet spot; the further off-axis you are the more the effect breaks down because you are closer to one or the other of the FR/FL mains.
post #5053 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There is nothing to set up on the AVR besides turning the center channel off (setting it "none"). That will redirect all center channel content to the main speakers. There is no special processing involved in a "phantom center", it's simply the ability of the FR/FL main speakers to image properly, the foundation for stereo music reproduction.

Are your speakers toed in? This will greatly impact their ability to image properly and make it feel like the in-phase content is truly coming fro the "center". Also, a phantom center only really works perfectly if you are sitting in the sweet spot; the further off-axis you are the more the effect breaks down because you are closer to one or the other of the FR/FL mains.

Thanks Batpig. Unfortunately, "toe-in" is not really an option for me, I'm running Klipschorns for my FL/FR and they must be tight in the corners for proper bass response. This puts my "sweet spot" about 5' in front of my MLP. I have read that I can adjust the sweet spot by "decoupling" the bass bins from the "top-hats" (mid/tweeter driver enclosure) and turn them slightly to improve imaging, and I may try that but I don't think I'm gonna like how that looks aesthetically.

I'm gonna play around with it again tonight and try Tom's suggestions as well (thanks Tom!).
post #5054 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This was just discussed a few posts back: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/5010#post_22870030
Thanks batpig, I've red that post, but my question was not only about audio but video as well. As the AV was in stand by mode, i was unable to watch TV (cable box), had to turn it on. In other words do i have to have the AV on in order to watch TV/DVD/Game? thanks
post #5055 of 10468
Thread Starter 
@ Alan P -- Yeah, if the speakers are facing straight ahead and not toed in, that makes it more difficult for them to image the central content as precisely. And it will exacerbate any off-axis issues that I noted above.
post #5056 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by superhq View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This was just discussed a few posts back: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/5010#post_22870030
Thanks batpig, I've red that post, but my question was not only about audio but video as well. As the AV was in stand by mode, i was unable to watch TV (cable box), had to turn it on. In other words do i have to have the AV on in order to watch TV/DVD/Game? thanks

The standby passthrough feature should pass through video AND audio together -- it turns the receiver into a passive HDMI repeater that will pass through the designated HDMI input to the display. In theory, it should be like the receiver isn't even there, e.g. as though the cable box were connected directly to the TV.
post #5057 of 10468
They actually face into the room at a 45 degree angle - "corner horns". But, yeah, I'm gonna try spinning the top hats a bit and see how it goes.

Not even sure why I want to do this, I've got a very capable center channel. I was just reading a thread about phantom centers and how it can sound better than a dedicated center *in some situations* and wanted to give it a go. Will probably end up going back to the dedicated center, but if I can get my FL/FR imaging better in the process that'll be cool.
post #5058 of 10468
Hi All,

First post smile.gif I currently own 2112CI model from last year. I have recently acquired 2 monoblock amplifiers (135watts each) and was trying to fiddle around with the 2112CI for pre-outs (Zone 2). After a couple of hours, no joy. The manual clearly says that Zone 2 pre-outs only pass analog signals (bastards!) So, I can't use my Apple TV or PS3 with Zone 2 pre-outs.

Now, the 2112CI is on Craigslist for a new home. I am back in the market for another receiver...infact, I just need a pre-amp with HDMI inputs but they're exceeding hard to find and pretty pricey. Seems like I am just going to get a receiver and use pre-outs.

I have a request from all the pros in this forum thread. What is a good model to go with if I want the following:

- HDMI 1.4 with 3D switching
- Strip HDMI audio and pass through the pre-outs (just need 2.1, but 7.1 couldn't hurt)
- Need a volume control for the pre-outs. My monoblocks have no volume control...so I cannot use line-level pre-out signal in interest of saving my ears/speakers.
- I don't need Audessey or any of the DSP really...

Even an older xx12 would work :-) I am also looking at the Harman Kardon 3600 which has 7.1 pre-outs...not sure if they are line-level or variable volume.

Thank you!
post #5059 of 10468
Thread Starter 
The only Denon models with pre-outs are the 33xx models and above. So maybe a 3312 refurb from last year? That would be cheaper than a new 3313. Marantz models have FR/FL pre-outs at a lower price point, so that might be another option.

If you don't care about Audyssey then you might be able to find a cheaper option with pre-outs from another brand. I believe Yamaha and HK both offer pre-outs at lower levels than Denon.
post #5060 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The only Denon models with pre-outs are the 33xx models and above. So maybe a 3312 refurb from last year? That would be cheaper than a new 3313. Marantz models have FR/FL pre-outs at a lower price point, so that might be another option.

If you don't care about Audyssey then you might be able to find a cheaper option with pre-outs from another brand. I believe Yamaha and HK both offer pre-outs at lower levels than Denon.

Cool...I just realized that if I want to get a sub-woofer, I would want to use the AVR's bass management. Does the bass management work for pre-outs?

Thanks!
post #5061 of 10468
I noticed that the 1612, according to the specs, is heavier and larger than the 1613. Does anybody know why this is, and whether there is a build quality advantage to the 1612?
post #5062 of 10468
Thread Starter 
As noted in the first post of this thread, Denon reduced the chassis depth for all models 21xx and below by about 2 inches. I think this is less of a sign of reduced build quality and more of a gesture to marketing, where most people buying entry-level type gear like things to be smaller to fit their TV consoles.

Looking at the specs the 1613 weighs about 2.5lbs less than the 1612 -- I imagine a good bit of that is the reduction in the chassis size (looks like it's also about 1/2 inch shorter in addition to being 2 inches shallower).

The rest of it is probably a few ounces here and there due to less legacy connectivity; for example, the 1613 (compared to the 1612) has removed one RCA analog audio input from the rear, the RCA composite AUX input from the front panel, the SB/FH pre-outs for expanding to 7ch, the single S-Video input and the iPod "Dock Control" port, and the AM radio hardware. Counteracting that is the addition of the ethernet port and a front-panel HDMI port, but the losses are much more than the gains in terms of weight savings.

I wouldn't expect any actual difference in "real world" build quality or amp power. The amp specs are identical with both models. And IMO the addition of networking more than makes up for any minor losses of legacy connections noted above.
post #5063 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by npgatech View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The only Denon models with pre-outs are the 33xx models and above. So maybe a 3312 refurb from last year? That would be cheaper than a new 3313. Marantz models have FR/FL pre-outs at a lower price point, so that might be another option.

If you don't care about Audyssey then you might be able to find a cheaper option with pre-outs from another brand. I believe Yamaha and HK both offer pre-outs at lower levels than Denon.

Cool...I just realized that if I want to get a sub-woofer, I would want to use the AVR's bass management. Does the bass management work for pre-outs?

Thanks!

Yeah, the signal sent to the pre-outs is identical with the signal sent to the internal amps. It doesn't matter whether it flows out to the internal or external amps, it's the same signal. All the other stuff (bass management, processing, room EQ, etc) happens earlier in the chain in the processing stage, and is already done by the time the signal heads to the DAC's before being sent to the amps (internal or external).
post #5064 of 10468
Thank you for the straight forward clear-cut reply. I have been searching for this answer for very long time.
post #5065 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As noted in the first post of this thread, Denon reduced the chassis depth for all models 21xx and below by about 2 inches. I think this is less of a sign of reduced build quality and more of a gesture to marketing, where most people buying entry-level type gear like things to be smaller to fit their TV consoles.

Looking at the specs the 1613 weighs about 2.5lbs less than the 1612 -- I imagine a good bit of that is the reduction in the chassis size (looks like it's also about 1/2 inch shorter in addition to being 2 inches shallower).

The rest of it is probably a few ounces here and there due to less legacy connectivity; for example, the 1613 (compared to the 1612) has removed one RCA analog audio input from the rear, the RCA composite AUX input from the front panel, the SB/FH pre-outs for expanding to 7ch, the single S-Video input and the iPod "Dock Control" port, and the AM radio hardware. Counteracting that is the addition of the ethernet port and a front-panel HDMI port, but the losses are much more than the gains in terms of weight savings.

I wouldn't expect any actual difference in "real world" build quality or amp power. The amp specs are identical with both models. And IMO the addition of networking more than makes up for any minor losses of legacy connections noted above.

Got it, thanks very much!!
post #5066 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The standby passthrough feature should pass through video AND audio together -- it turns the receiver into a passive HDMI repeater that will pass through the designated HDMI input to the display. In theory, it should be like the receiver isn't even there, e.g. as though the cable box were connected directly to the TV.
i see thank you.
post #5067 of 10468
Hi all

Have a question on a denon 2113. Right now my receiver is a yamaha 5.1 receiver non hd. In our living room i have a 5.1 setup and i have 2 more speakers (one in theckitchen and onecin the kids playroom). Now with the yamaha i had 2 small buttons on the front, speaker A and B. A was always pressed for the 5.1 but if i had the radio on i could also press B which allow me to have the music through the 5.1 setup plus the two other speakers. And when i watched a movie on 5.1 i only pressed A.

Now im still a noob with the new receivers (order a 2113 next week) but is the same possible with the Denon 2113 like above? Is this the so called zone 2 or?

Thanks.
post #5068 of 10468
I have a Denon 1613 Receiver. What would be the best way to hook it up for TV Audio? I currently have a Xbox 360 hooked up to my receiver also.
post #5069 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Modern Denons still have A/B speakers options but it's no longer accessible with a simple button on the front of the unit or remote. You have to dig into the menus to activate it; the intended application is really for those who have a separate "dedicated 2ch" setup that is independent from the main multich setup, so you can switch between your multich rig and the "B" rig. It's a little harder to get the type of switching you are describing unless you have a Harmony or other programmable universal which can access the remote command.

More likely you will want to use the Zone 2 capabilities, which allow fully independent power, source and volume control. You can read more about this and its limitations here: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=160

Out of curiosity, since you only have one speaker in each spot, did you have some way to make the output mono? Or were you just putting half of the stereo feed in each room? If you are interested in mono output, then it's probably worth stepping up to the 2313, which allows you to select Zone 2 output as stereo or mono; this would allow you play an identical mono downmix in both rooms.
post #5070 of 10468
Quick question from a very happy owner of a 4311ci. I'm thinking of replacing my Pioneer AVR in bedroom with Denon 1913 so I can use remote iOS app, have built-in airplay, Audyssey and all the other check boxes. Speakers are Martin/Logan 10 for center and rear, ML 100s for front and ML750 for sub. Question is should I spend the extra for the 1913 or go with 1613 given that I have 5.1 setup here? Current avr is Pioneer vsx-919AH. THANKS!

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk HD
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