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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 180

post #5371 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Zone 2 (HDMI) only passes HDMI 1-6 source inputs. To pass network sources, AM/FM and USB you would have to connect the Zone 2 and or Zone 3 pre-outs to the bedroom AVR.

Thanks! It wasn't the response I wanted, but better to know it now than after I run the wires and/or order a unit that won't serve my needs.
post #5372 of 10468
I'm considering replacing my pieced together (mostly monoprice gear and old AVR590) AV distribution, and so I have a few questions for 3313 owners, pertaining to the new HDMI matrix switch.

Here's the scenario:
HDMI 1 goes to an LED in the family room with 5.1 surround
HDMI 2 goes to an LED in the living room and uses the built-in tv speakers.

- What happens when source X with multi-channel audio is selected on both outputs? (My understanding is that the AVR will downmix the audio track, based on the highest common denominator [via HDMI handshake] and both rooms will get 2-channel stereo - True?)
- What happens when source X with multi-channel audio is selected on output 1, and a separate source Y is selected on output 2? Does the AVR output all 6 channels to the family room?
- Will the AVR's matrix inappropriately allow 6 channels of audio to be sent to the TV on output 2 in either of these scenarios?

This is something I'm struggling with now on the cheapo 4x2 monoprice matrix, and I would very much like to solve this with a moderately sized pile of money.

Appreciate any feedback! Thanks.

Tony
post #5373 of 10468
Hi all, I need some help with playing DTS MA and TrueHD. I am a noob, I admit.

My TV is connected to the Denon avr 2113 ARC to ARC. The TV's output allows me to select two choices: SPDIF Output a) AUTO b) PCM. I have set it on Auto as I thought that has to do it for all sources. And it works for all stereo, 5.1 sources. I downloaded some TrueHD and DTS MA samples, put it on a USB and played it through the TV (Denon is set to TV Audio), but no sound comes out. I have tried the Music, Movie, and Direct buttons. After banging my head for some time I decided to switch the TV SPDIF out to PCM, then I got those samples to play! So, I left it as PCM, but then all my regular 5.1 content now plays as stereo. So not sure what the settings should be. Could someone explain?

Also, I have calibrated my Denon with the Audissey however, how should I keep it as Direct or change between Stereo, Movie depending on my sources? I have noticed that when my TV SPDIF is set to Auto even if my Denon is set to Stereo, it changes depending on the source and displays DTS, Dolby, etc. When I go to a digital stereo channel on my TV it goes back to Stereo. Direct produces much lower volume in general, but I am still puzzled: should not I keep it always on Direct so i do not tamper with the quality (i.e. not do any equalization and listen to the way the author intended the soundtrack to come out). In which case though, I am suspicious the Audissey thing does not kick in, correct?
post #5374 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

Hi all, I need some help with playing DTS MA and TrueHD. I am a noob, I admit.

My TV is connected to the Denon avr 2113 ARC to ARC. The TV's output allows me to select two choices: SPDIF Output a) AUTO b) PCM. I have set it on Auto as I thought that has to do it for all sources. And it works for all stereo, 5.1 sources. I downloaded some TrueHD and DTS MA samples, put it on a USB and played it through the TV (Denon is set to TV Audio), but no sound comes out. I have tried the Music, Movie, and Direct buttons. After banging my head for some time I decided to switch the TV SPDIF out to PCM, then I got those samples to play! So, I left it as PCM, but then all my regular 5.1 content now plays as stereo. So not sure what the settings should be. Could someone explain?

Also, I have calibrated my Denon with the Audissey however, how should I keep it as Direct or change between Stereo, Movie depending on my sources? I have noticed that when my TV SPDIF is set to Auto even if my Denon is set to Stereo, it changes depending on the source and displays DTS, Dolby, etc. When I go to a digital stereo channel on my TV it goes back to Stereo. Direct produces much lower volume in general, but I am still puzzled: should not I keep it always on Direct so i do not tamper with the quality (i.e. not do any equalization and listen to the way the author intended the soundtrack to come out). In which case though, I am suspicious the Audissey thing does not kick in, correct?


Optical, using the S/PDIF protocol, can transmit DD and DTS 5.1 soundtracks for your receiver to decode. It can transmit two channels of PCM. But, it cannot handle multichannel PCM or lossless codecs such as TrueHD and dts-MA.

Your AVR will play whatever signal your TV is sending to it. If you want to DTS MA and TrueHD you will have to use HDMI connections.
post #5375 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

Hi all, I need some help with playing DTS MA and TrueHD. I am a noob, I admit.

My TV is connected to the Denon avr 2113 ARC to ARC. The TV's output allows me to select two choices: SPDIF Output a) AUTO b) PCM. I have set it on Auto as I thought that has to do it for all sources. And it works for all stereo, 5.1 sources. I downloaded some TrueHD and DTS MA samples, put it on a USB and played it through the TV (Denon is set to TV Audio), but no sound comes out. I have tried the Music, Movie, and Direct buttons. After banging my head for some time I decided to switch the TV SPDIF out to PCM, then I got those samples to play! So, I left it as PCM, but then all my regular 5.1 content now plays as stereo. So not sure what the settings should be. Could someone explain?

Also, I have calibrated my Denon with the Audissey however, how should I keep it as Direct or change between Stereo, Movie depending on my sources? I have noticed that when my TV SPDIF is set to Auto even if my Denon is set to Stereo, it changes depending on the source and displays DTS, Dolby, etc. When I go to a digital stereo channel on my TV it goes back to Stereo. Direct produces much lower volume in general, but I am still puzzled: should not I keep it always on Direct so i do not tamper with the quality (i.e. not do any equalization and listen to the way the author intended the soundtrack to come out). In which case though, I am suspicious the Audissey thing does not kick in, correct?

1. Check your TV's Owner's manual, but TVs cannot play HD audio tracks (TrueHD, DTS MA), but rather instead play the stereo tracks when available (eg. DVD, BD). In some cases even with a DD 5.1 track the TV may only output a stereo track as well. Why not connect the USB to the AVR?

2. Most keep it at MOVIE as DIRECT disengages Audyssey.
post #5376 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bombino View Post

I'm considering replacing my pieced together (mostly monoprice gear and old AVR590) AV distribution, and so I have a few questions for 3313 owners, pertaining to the new HDMI matrix switch.

Here's the scenario:
HDMI 1 goes to an LED in the family room with 5.1 surround
HDMI 2 goes to an LED in the living room and uses the built-in tv speakers.

- What happens when source X with multi-channel audio is selected on both outputs? (My understanding is that the AVR will downmix the audio track, based on the highest common denominator [via HDMI handshake] and both rooms will get 2-channel stereo - True?)
- What happens when source X with multi-channel audio is selected on output 1, and a separate source Y is selected on output 2? Does the AVR output all 6 channels to the family room?
- Will the AVR's matrix inappropriately allow 6 channels of audio to be sent to the TV on output 2 in either of these scenarios?

This is something I'm struggling with now on the cheapo 4x2 monoprice matrix, and I would very much like to solve this with a moderately sized pile of money.

Appreciate any feedback! Thanks.

Tony

1. True.
2. Yes.
3. No.
post #5377 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Optical, using the S/PDIF protocol, can transmit DD and DTS 5.1 soundtracks for your receiver to decode. It can transmit two channels of PCM. But, it cannot handle multichannel PCM or lossless codecs such as TrueHD and dts-MA.

Your AVR will play whatever signal your TV is sending to it. If you want to DTS MA and TrueHD you will have to use HDMI connections.

I have only 1 cable between my TV and the Denon -- an HDMI 1.4 which connect both through their HDMI's ARC channels. I am not using a separate cable for audio.

It is just on the TV, when I go to Audio Setup I can choose the values for "SPDIF Output" Auto or PCM.
post #5378 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. Check your TV's Owner's manual, but TVs cannot play HD audio tracks (TrueHD, DTS MA), but rather instead play the stereo tracks when available (eg. DVD, BD). In some cases even with a DD 5.1 track the TV may only output a stereo track as well. Why not connect the USB to the AVR?

2. Most keep it at MOVIE as DIRECT disengages Audyssey.

My ST50 plays 5.1 just fine. Only TrueHD and DTS MA is a bummer. The reason I am not connecting my USB drive to the Denon is because 1) it does not recognize it 2) It does not have a built-in media player to play video files AFAIK. In fact my TV is connected to a NAS so I can share conntent in my LAN and the I am utilizing the TV's media player.
post #5379 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vdawgs22 View Post

what is the recommended setting? i left it in middle when i calibrated.. so should it just be left be?

The "volume" is placed in the middle, while the crossover setting is set to the "max/highest" setting to allow the AVR to control it.
post #5380 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by schustmi View Post

Hi - Hope I'm doing this right. I've spent hours researching this and still don't know the answer. I bought an open box 2113 at Best Buy and it came without the Audyssey microphone. Denon won't ship me one b/c it was an open box. I already own a 2112. According to Batpig the mic's are interchangeable. But, when I read the Audyssey forum or look on Denon's website they imply the mic is different for every model. Can I use the 2112 mic for the 2113? Thanks.

Yup. Spend some more time reading through the entire Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig as it is time well spent. The following link in the guide answers your question ....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51700_100#user_d4
post #5381 of 10468
SInce I haven't seen this problem discussed before ( hope I haven't overlooked it in Batpig's responses and/or FAQs) I thought I might put it out there for anyone else who may have this problem.

I have a 2113ci which has worked very well. Yesterday when I was showing out-of- town guests pictures from my computer , using the A/V's Network function, the pictures coming from the computer were perfectly sent to my TV. We stopped for lunch and later tried to watch more photos. I was unable to push the Network button and bring up the GU for NetworkI, just a blank screen. No GUI for Internet radio. Everything else worked fine. I tried rebooting the modem, the router (wired connection to Denon.), the TV, the DirectV box, and the Denon (by unplugging fore 10 minutes). No change. Did this several times with no results. The funny part was that even though I couldn't get a GUI on Network and Internet Radio, I did get music from Internet Radio so that showed me the internet connection was working. Finally after about an hour of trying this and that. I felt that I may have to reset the microprocessor. Researched and found out how to do it, but before I would lose all my settings I called the Denon help line. This is where I learned the following.

This is the part I hadn't seen before. The tech. suspected a problem with the network card (?). He said that resetting the microprocessor would not reset the Network card in the Denon . The tech then told me that I should reset the Network card which would also reset the Denon microprocessor. To do the reset. he advised to hold down the Zone2 source and Dimmer buttons while I turned the 2113 off and then, still pressing both buttons, turn the 2113 back on. It then would (and did) start the display blinking. AFter 4-5 "blinks" let go of the 2 buttons. Lost all my settings which I will have to do again, but Network button and Internet Radio button once again worked properly with GUI working perfectly.

Hope this helps those who have seemingly insolveable problems like I did.
Edited by Impala1ss - 2/8/13 at 8:10am
post #5382 of 10468
Question: What is the "bare-minimum" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power these Klipsch RC-52 II Reference Series speakers?

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Channel-Loudspeaker/dp/B0040QW7KQ/ref=pd_sim_e_1
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B0041578BE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y

And what is the lest expensive "adequate" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power them?

Thanks!
post #5383 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

Question: What is the "bare-minimum" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power these Klipsch RC-52 II Reference Series speakers?

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Channel-Loudspeaker/dp/B0040QW7KQ/ref=pd_sim_e_1
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B0041578BE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y

And what is the lest expensive "adequate" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power them?

Thanks!

The dirty little secret is that the differences in power levels between the lowest end and highest end xx13 AVRs just aren't that significant. A decibel or two of peak volume capability at most. Buy your AVR based on features.
post #5384 of 10468
I'm having buyers remorse. I just ordered a 3313 but am I taking a step backwards from my current 4306? I would love a new 4520 but it's just not in my price range. Thoughts?

Jerry
post #5385 of 10468
I 'up/down-graded' from a 4802 to a 3312. I have no regrets at all.
post #5386 of 10468
And I 'up/downgraded' from a 2309ci to a 2113ci. I have no regrets at all either.
post #5387 of 10468
Thanks to Batpig and jdsmoothie for the prompt replies. Much appreciated.
post #5388 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

Direct produces much lower volume in general, but I am still puzzled: should not I keep it always on Direct so i do not tamper with the quality (i.e. not do any equalization and listen to the way the author intended the soundtrack to come out). In which case though, I am suspicious the Audissey thing does not kick in, correct?

The important thing to understand is that, when listening to the track in DIRECT mode, you are bypassing all digital processing including Audyssey EQ + Dynamic EQ etc. You might think this "purer" signal is closer to "what the author intended" but the critical factor is that the ROOM ACOUSTICS are tampering heavily with the sound. This is the point of electronic room correction (Audyssey MultEQ), it attempts to correct for your room acoustics and actually get you CLOSER to what the intended sound is. Dynamic EQ helps further by maintaining the reference tonal balance of film soundtracks regardless of what volume you listen.

Room acoustics are a very powerful force in deteriorating sound quality, and it's an old myth from the messy analog days that applying EQ will hurt the sound quality and take you further away from the "intended" audio quality. With MultEQ (using the "Audyssey" reference curve) and Dynamic EQ engaged, you are coming much closer to the intended sound.
post #5389 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As is often discussed in this thread, cable boxes are problematic regardless of brand. You would be much better served bypassing the AVR with cable box (HDMI) directly to the TV and cable box (optical) to the AVR for surround sound.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread#user_L11

Thanks for the reply. I going to try to swap out the box next week. I would hate to loose the GUI feature. If the new box doesn't do it I thought about buying a 24 hour timer to automatically reboot the box every morning as the problem seems to go away for a few days after I reboot the box manually.
post #5390 of 10468
.
Edited by Rick Zaida - 2/8/13 at 5:11pm
post #5391 of 10468
What would be the least expensive but adequately powerful avr-xx13 to drive your Klipsch RC-52 II Reference Series speakers? I don't know about the Klipsch, but my good ole set of Paradigm Performance Series 11seMkIII 3-way speakers with deep bass can be theatrically and musically handled by a humble avr-1613, rated at 75W (/8 Ohm):

http://stereonomono.blogspot.ca/2010/09/paradigm-11-se-mkiii.html

When I watch an episode of the Mentalist on CTV Two (CHRO -DTV 43-1, 1080i 16:9, yes, OTA HDTV from a bow tie antenna), I turned on the Cinema audio mode and really enjoyed both the HD video (Samsung 7100 series) and Dolby Digital audio expressed by this humble receiver. I was blown away by the musical quality and sufficient bass provided by the 1613 amps. (Note that my previous non-HDMI set up was a AVR-3300 with 5.1 pre-outs, which I only used the Front R/L pre-outs to feed a Bryston 4BST to drive these tower speakers)

Since I still have about one more week to test trial this 1613 (on sale a week ago at BB), and this week FS put up the 1713 for a mere $369, I intend to test both AVRs to see if there is any significant difference on the 80W rated of the 1713. I'll use Super 8's train crash scenes to compare both for sound quality and theater effects, although not side by side. I doubt if I can discern the audio quality, but still hope for a bit more "juices" from the 1713, as I had to crank up the 1613 to a 65-70(%?) notch to achieve the "loudness" effect.

I also used a Denon HiFi Test CD to use the 1613 front amps to test the stereo setup. With the avr-3300/Bryston 4BST, I was able to make the pictures hung on the wall to rattle at low freqs (sweet smile.gif, not sure 16Hz or 32Hz) when tweaking the volume. Obviously I can't reproduce with the 1613, but all other musical testing materials, from rock to classic, drum ..., the 1613 sounds very very decent. I intended to keep the 1613, until the 1713 went on sale at FS for such a good price (sales ended yesterday though).

Well, that is my experience with the 1613, hope this helps!
Dta
post #5392 of 10468
Hello, I've been running my 2113 with the Definitive ProCinema 600 system for a few months now and finally have everything sounding good. I wound up turning off Dynamic Volume as the levels seemed a bit too sporadic for my taste and were all over the place when watching TV. Anyways, last night I had the house to myself so I cranked up the sound to about 71 and turned on the new Spartacus series on Starz. It was sounding pretty impressive and then when a fight scene hit, for the first time I had my Denon shut off on me. I turned it on again and backed down the sound to about 66, it did the same thing. I wound up having to go down to around 62 and it stayed on for the rest of the episode.....

I have read the posts on here before to check speaker wiring first, and I did... all of that wiring remains unchanged and is good to go. Any ideas what the culprit could be to have my system to a shutdown at what I consider to be a relatively reasonable volume? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Jason
post #5393 of 10468
Thanks !!! The 1713 for $369 is a steal.
post #5394 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Hello, I've been running my 2113 with the Definitive ProCinema 600 system for a few months now and finally have everything sounding good. I wound up turning off Dynamic Volume as the levels seemed a bit too sporadic for my taste and were all over the place when watching TV. Anyways, last night I had the house to myself so I cranked up the sound to about 71 and turned on the new Spartacus series on Starz. It was sounding pretty impressive and then when a fight scene hit, for the first time I had my Denon shut off on me. I turned it on again and backed down the sound to about 66, it did the same thing. I wound up having to go down to around 62 and it stayed on for the rest of the episode.....

I have read the posts on here before to check speaker wiring first, and I did... all of that wiring remains unchanged and is good to go. Any ideas what the culprit could be to have my system to a shutdown at what I consider to be a relatively reasonable volume? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Jason

Could just be that scene in the audio track.
post #5395 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Zaida View Post

There are no "Add New Feature" options when I search.

http://usa.denon.com/US/Support/Pages/upgrade.aspx
post #5396 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

SInce I haven't seen this problem discussed before ( hope I haven't overlooked it in Batpig's responses and/or FAQs) I thought I might put it out there for anyone else who may have this problem.

I have a 2113ci which has worked very well. Yesterday when I was showing out-of- town guests pictures from my computer , using the A/V's Network function, the pictures coming from the computer were perfectly sent to my TV. We stopped for lunch and later tried to watch more photos. I was unable to push the Network button and bring up the GU for NetworkI, just a blank screen. No GUI for Internet radio. Everything else worked fine. I tried rebooting the modem, the router (wired connection to Denon.), the TV, the DirectV box, and the Denon (by unplugging fore 10 minutes). No change. Did this several times with no results. The funny part was that even though I couldn't get a GUI on Network and Internet Radio, I did get music from Internet Radio so that showed me the internet connection was working. Finally after about an hour of trying this and that. I felt that I may have to reset the microprocessor. Researched and found out how to do it, but before I would lose all my settings I called the Denon help line. This is where I learned the following.

This is the part I hadn't seen before. The tech. suspected a problem with the network card (?). He said that resetting the microprocessor would not reset the Network card in the Denon . The tech then told me that I should reset the Network card which would also reset the Denon microprocessor. To do the reset. he advised to hold down the Zone2 source and Dimmer buttons while I turned the 2113 off and then, still pressing both buttons, turn the 2113 back on. It then would (and did) start the display blinking. AFter 4-5 "blinks" let go of the 2 buttons. Lost all my settings which I will have to do again, but Network button and Internet Radio button once again worked properly with GUI working perfectly.

Hope this helps those who have seemingly insolveable problems like I did.

Thanks. This information has been noted in post #5 of this thread for sometime now. Review posts #3-6 in this thread for more helpful information to include firmware changelog information in post #6.
post #5397 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. True.
2. Yes.
3. No.

Wonderful - thank you very much!
post #5398 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Hello, I've been running my 2113 with the Definitive ProCinema 600 system for a few months now and finally have everything sounding good. I wound up turning off Dynamic Volume as the levels seemed a bit too sporadic for my taste and were all over the place when watching TV. Anyways, last night I had the house to myself so I cranked up the sound to about 71 and turned on the new Spartacus series on Starz. It was sounding pretty impressive and then when a fight scene hit, for the first time I had my Denon shut off on me. I turned it on again and backed down the sound to about 66, it did the same thing. I wound up having to go down to around 62 and it stayed on for the rest of the episode.....

I have read the posts on here before to check speaker wiring first, and I did... all of that wiring remains unchanged and is good to go. Any ideas what the culprit could be to have my system to a shutdown at what I consider to be a relatively reasonable volume? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Jason

Can your AVR "breathe", or do you have it in an enclosed cabinet? Could be overheating.

Also, you say the speaker wiring "remains unchanged", did you disconnect and reconnect all of them?
post #5399 of 10468
.
Edited by Rick Zaida - 2/8/13 at 5:10pm
post #5400 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

Question: What is the "bare-minimum" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power these Klipsch RC-52 II Reference Series speakers?

http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Channel-Loudspeaker/dp/B0040QW7KQ/ref=pd_sim_e_1
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Series-Floorstanding-Loudspeaker/dp/B0041578BE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y

And what is the lest expensive "adequate" AVR-XX13 that would be recommended to power them?

Thanks!

Klipsch speakers are known to be very efficient. Doesn't take much power to get a lot of volume. The center speaker in your link lists sensitivity@96db.
The mains don't show a listing but most Klipsch are in that range.

Translation: you could probably make your ears bleed with most of the Denon xx13 line. eek.gif
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