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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 191

post #5701 of 7935
2/20/13 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Doubtless because of the extra expense of including it. They're doing cost reductions whereever possible, including deleting features that people actually want.

FWIW, smart power strips are available these days which will turn off all of the other outlets when the primary outlet stops drawing power. Here's an example. Many others are available. http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-LCG5-Auto-Switching-Technology/dp/B000L9635G

Too bad those smart power strips have too many switched outlets, I only need one.
I'd rather have more unswitched outlets and only one or two switched outlets.
But with these type they have 5-6 switched and only 3-4 unswitched, so I would have to use two power strips for all my devices.

Also reading user comments on amazon for various smart power strip models, many claim they don't work correctly and screw up especially with modern receivers that go into idle mode as the power control - some report that the controlled outlets don't always turn off as they should.
Wish the receiver had a switched outlet like the good older models since that always works!
Edited by BriscoCountyJr - 2/20/13 at 5:44pm
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post #5702 of 7935
2/20/13 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Hey guys, I posted on this issue a couple of weeks back and thought it went away but the problem came up again...... My setup is a 2113 with Definitive PC600 5.1 system. I have Audyssey running on my AVR, but I shut off the dynamic volume feature as it was all over the place with day to day DirecTV programming.

A couple of weeks back my 2113 went into power down / protection mode while watching Spartacus on Starz at which I thought was a moderate level, around 65 or 66 I believe. I wound up having to go down to 60 or it kept turning off on the louder scenes. I checked all my speaker connects and chalked it up to maybe just being a problem with the TV program.

Last night I was watching Argo at only 62.5 through the VUDU streaming app (HDX quality) and during one of the early riot scenes my unit shut off once again. It was a bit loud, but only to the extent that you would want it to be in a movie like that....

I guess my question is has anyone run into their AVR going into protection mode at such a low volume setting? Or could I have a problem on my hands with the AVR (it's about 3 or 4 months old).

Is dynamic volume a necessary evil when watching content with loud scenes like these to keep my 2113 from shutting off? Very frustrating!!! Thanks in advance for the feedback

-Jason

If no wires are touching you could have a problem. The only time I got a Denon to shut off was a 1908 watching The Fast and the Furious and it was cranked stupid loud (+6.0 db).
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post #5703 of 7935
2/20/13 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Hey guys, I posted on this issue a couple of weeks back and thought it went away but the problem came up again...... My setup is a 2113 with Definitive PC600 5.1 system. I have Audyssey running on my AVR, but I shut off the dynamic volume feature as it was all over the place with day to day DirecTV programming.

A couple of weeks back my 2113 went into power down / protection mode while watching Spartacus on Starz at which I thought was a moderate level, around 65 or 66 I believe. I wound up having to go down to 60 or it kept turning off on the louder scenes. I checked all my speaker connects and chalked it up to maybe just being a problem with the TV program.

Last night I was watching Argo at only 62.5 through the VUDU streaming app (HDX quality) and during one of the early riot scenes my unit shut off once again. It was a bit loud, but only to the extent that you would want it to be in a movie like that....

I guess my question is has anyone run into their AVR going into protection mode at such a low volume setting? Or could I have a problem on my hands with the AVR (it's about 3 or 4 months old).

Is dynamic volume a necessary evil when watching content with loud scenes like these to keep my 2113 from shutting off? Very frustrating!!! Thanks in advance for the feedback

-Jason
Jason, sounds to me like an issue. Dynamic Volume is a feature that is designed to reduce the dynamic range of the source material. (FYI, dynamic range is simply the ratio of the sound power at loudest part to the quietest part.) Ever have the issue (especially at night, with someone else trying to sleep) where the loud parts are too loud so you turn it down, then the quiet parts, esp. dialog, are too quiet, so you have to keep adjusting the volume? Dynamic Volume solves that. A large dynamic range is normally desirable, though--the director/producer/musicians made it that way on purpose!--and so IMO the Dynamic Volume feature should generally be OFF, except in those cases where you need it quiet not to disturb others but want to still hear the quiet scenes. Dynamic EQ is different, and tries to adjust the EQ curves based on the volume level to compensate for the (undesirable) nonuniform frequency response vs. volume of the human hearing. I prefer this on, but this one is more of a personal choice.

If your AVR is incapable of a certain higher power level without shutting itself off, it makes sense that Dynamic Volume would help this problem, because it's reducing the amplitude of these loud scenes...so yeah, Dynamic Volume may be a necessary evil for watching content with large dynamic range. But it shouldn't be. Your AVR should not be tripping off just because it had source power for a loud scene. I think something's messed up.

Before sending it back or in for repair, what is the impedance of the speakers are you driving? If it was too low, that could cause the amps to struggle during loud scenes. I assume you're not plugging multiple speakers into the same speaker posts, right? That could certainly do it! Not knowing better, I used to do this all the time as a kid, thinking it was awesome to have 10 speakers plugged into a 2-ch stereo. How about heat? Is the AVR being kept fairly cool in a well ventilated area?
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post #5704 of 7935
2/20/13 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

If no wires are touching you could have a problem. The only time I got a Denon to shut off was a 1908 watching The Fast and the Furious and it was cranked stupid loud (+6.0 db).

i could run my 3312 at +9.5 (i was curious....) but the first time i turned my 3313 up to +2 it died. And I mean completely. It's done.
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post #5705 of 7935
2/20/13 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by meddler76 View Post

When using powered Zone 2 outs on the 2113CI, can Zone 2 be toggled between Stereo and Mono?

Not on the 2113CI, no as this is only a feature of the 2313CI and 3313CI.
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post #5706 of 7935
2/20/13 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Not on the 2113CI, no as this is only a feature of the 2313CI and 3313CI.

Aw shucks. Thanks, JDS.
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post #5707 of 7935
2/20/13 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbalegend View Post

Jason, sounds to me like an issue. Dynamic Volume is a feature that is designed to reduce the dynamic range of the source material. (FYI, dynamic range is simply the ratio of the sound power at loudest part to the quietest part.) Ever have the issue (especially at night, with someone else trying to sleep) where the loud parts are too loud so you turn it down, then the quiet parts, esp. dialog, are too quiet, so you have to keep adjusting the volume? Dynamic Volume solves that. A large dynamic range is normally desirable, though--the director/producer/musicians made it that way on purpose!--and so IMO the Dynamic Volume feature should generally be OFF, except in those cases where you need it quiet not to disturb others but want to still hear the quiet scenes. Dynamic EQ is different, and tries to adjust the EQ curves based on the volume level to compensate for the (undesirable) nonuniform frequency response vs. volume of the human hearing. I prefer this on, but this one is more of a personal choice.

If your AVR is incapable of a certain higher power level without shutting itself off, it makes sense that Dynamic Volume would help this problem, because it's reducing the amplitude of these loud scenes...so yeah, Dynamic Volume may be a necessary evil for watching content with large dynamic range. But it shouldn't be. Your AVR should not be tripping off just because it had source power for a loud scene. I think something's messed up.

Before sending it back or in for repair, what is the impedance of the speakers are you driving? If it was too low, that could cause the amps to struggle during loud scenes. I assume you're not plugging multiple speakers into the same speaker posts, right? That could certainly do it! Not knowing better, I used to do this all the time as a kid, thinking it was awesome to have 10 speakers plugged into a 2-ch stereo. How about heat? Is the AVR being kept fairly cool in a well ventilated area?

Thanks for the feedback... In reference to how the speakers are plugged in, nothing crazy there. Just a standard 5.1 setup and for zone 2 I have a couple of outdoor klipsch speakers on the patio.

I am not familiar with the "impedance" of the speakers, this is my first surround sound setup so I am learning as I go. My 5.1 system is a box set, Definitive Technology Pro Cinema 600 package. While they are smaller satellite speakers, I was under the impression they were powerful enough to get the job done. I read a lot of reviews and this isn't an issue I came across....

As far as where the AVR sits, it's in an entertainment center but it has its own space with about 1/2 foot of ventilation room above it.

I purchased the AVR from Magnolia at Best Buy.... Anyone know if I go to them or Denon if the unit does wind up needing repair? Not sure what to do next at this point....

-Jason
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post #5708 of 7935
2/20/13 at 7:38pm
Try disconnecting all speakers and add one back at a time raising the volume above the previous cut-off level each time playing the same video that has caused a problem before to see if a particular speaker is causing the issue. If you do have to send it back, unless you purchased a Best Buy extended warranty, you may have to bypass Best Buy although doesn't hurt to at least ask them to confirm as normally you would be responsible for shipping charges to the repair facility.
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post #5709 of 7935
2/20/13 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

Thanks for the feedback... In reference to how the speakers are plugged in, nothing crazy there. Just a standard 5.1 setup and for zone 2 I have a couple of outdoor klipsch speakers on the patio.
Yea, these should be fine. I'm wondering if the receiver is seeing a short at the speaker terminals. Are you using banana plugs or bare wire going into the posts? Not that there's anything wrong with bare wire, but there could be a strand hitting a nearby post -- that would be bad.

If you're sure nothing like this is going on, you could look at the lines. In wiring speakers up in the past, I've had insulation become damaged and short the + and - wires somewhere. Using an ohmmeter (or a multimeter in resistance mode), first measure an unplugged speaker by itself to see what the nominal resistance of a satellite at DC. It should be a couple of ohms, let's just suppose for now that it reads 8.5 ohms. Plug that speaker back in to its wire, then go to your receiver end, and unplug each pair of wires going to each speaker one at a time, and measure the resistance as seen by the amplifier by measuring the pair. Because of the line resistance, it should read a little higher by an ohm or two, and that's fine. What you're looking for here is one of the pairs to read significantly lower than the others, something in the 0 to 2 ohm range. This would indicate that amp is being shorted, and that would explain why it seems to overload and shut down easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

As far as where the AVR sits, it's in an entertainment center but it has its own space with about 1/2 foot of ventilation room above it.
Sounds like its not too restricted... Something hot below or next to it? Tho this doesn't really seem likely to be the issue to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksigdawg View Post

I purchased the AVR from Magnolia at Best Buy.... Anyone know if I go to them or Denon if the unit does wind up needing repair? Not sure what to do next at this point....
I dunno, how long ago did you purchase it? If more than a month or two, probably need to go to Denon with this one if you're not able to find the problem yourself.
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post #5710 of 7935
2/20/13 at 8:48pm
jdsmoothie (or anyone else who might know), this is a follow-up to my questions from before:

1a) Do you know if the multizone AVRs (1713 and up) can stream DLNA to zone 1 and Airplay from an iTunes library or iPhone to zone 2 simultaneously? And the reverse of this? Or can you only do one network-based source at a time?
(Actually, I would use MediaMonkey with an Airplay output plugin, not iTunes, but same deal.)

1b) Can you play one song with DLNA stream in zone 1 and a different song via DLNA in zone 2?

2) For models that include zone 2 preouts AND a powered zone 2, can both of these zone 2 outputs be used simultaneously? I'd like to have a third zone, though I know it would be linked to zone 2 and require it's own amplification.

Thanks.
Edited by paulbalegend - 2/20/13 at 9:55pm
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post #5711 of 7935
2/20/13 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbalegend View Post

jdsmoothie (or anyone else who might know), this is a follow-up to my questions from before:

1a) Do you know if the multizone AVRs (1713 and up) can stream DLNA to zone 1 and Airplay from an iTunes library or iPhone to zone 2 simultaneously? And the reverse of this? Or can you only do one network-based source at a time?
(Actually, I would use MediaMonkey with an Airplay output plugin, not iTunes, but same deal.)

1b) Can you play one song with DLNA stream in zone 1 and a different song via DLNA in zone 2?

No, only one network source can be active at a time on the receiver. If you want to do something like this, you'll need something like an Airport Express and connect the analog audio to the system, and feed that out zone 2.
Quote:
2) For models that include zone 2 preouts AND a powered zone 2, can both of these zone 2 outputs be used simultaneously? I'd like to have a third zone, though I know it would be linked to zone 2 and require it's own amplification.

Thanks.

I believe both can be active at the same time. However, why not just use one amplifier, and put both of your other zone speakers onto impedance matching volume controls? Less equipment, and it will work just as well.
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post #5712 of 7935
2/21/13 at 10:26am
Question- I upgraded from the 1911 to the 1913. I like the quick links to the dialogue level and subwoofer level in the audio menu. My question is, why are these options not selectable while the movie is playing? That's when I want to change the content...? wink.gif
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post #5713 of 7935
2/21/13 at 10:56am
^^^^

If you have a universal remote that can take hex codes, Batpig has a great list of discretes including Sub and Center levels here.
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post #5714 of 7935
2/21/13 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try disconnecting all speakers and add one back at a time raising the volume above the previous cut-off level each time playing the same video that has caused a problem before to see if a particular speaker is causing the issue. If you do have to send it back, unless you purchased a Best Buy extended warranty, you may have to bypass Best Buy although doesn't hurt to at least ask them to confirm as normally you would be responsible for shipping charges to the repair facility.

Good ideas all around, I'll give these a shot and see if I can narrow down where the problem is coming from..... thanks for the feedback guys
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post #5715 of 7935
2/21/13 at 1:54pm
I fried my 1613 mic connection on my AVR with static electricity. Luckily, I had a Bestbuy warranty and they gave me a new 1613. I got it set up and ran Audyssey and my sub went from a -2 to a -8. I didn't change anything on my subs and I couldn't believe it was off by 6db. I turned my Klipsch RW-12D down to -20db to get to -3db. I pulled out my RatShack spl meter and my sub is only reading 70db. My speakers were a lower level, but they were at 75-77db. Is my new mic more sensitive or could my AVR be the reason my settings are different.
Edited by sojodave - 2/21/13 at 2:37pm
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post #5716 of 7935
2/21/13 at 3:04pm
It could be that the new microphone is defective and overly sensitive to low frequencies -- it thinks they're louder than before and thus have to be turned down farther.

I assume that you can't get back the previous microphone and try calibrating with that frown.gif
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post #5717 of 7935
2/21/13 at 3:18pm
Me thinks not all Audyssey mics are created the same - when I run Audyssey, it always sets all my speakers to 72db and my sub to ~70db using the AVRs internal test tone.

That being said, this is not the correct way to determine if Audyssey set your levels correctly - the AVRs internal tones bypass Audyssey so they can't be trusted. The only way to be sure is to send a signal to your AVR from either a test CD or pink noise/sine wave generator (i.e. REW) with Audyssey ON and then check the levels with your SPL meter.
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post #5718 of 7935
2/21/13 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Me thinks not all Audyssey mics are created the same - when I run Audyssey, it always sets all my speakers to 72db and my sub to ~70db using the AVRs internal test tone.

That being said, this is not the correct way to determine if Audyssey set your levels correctly - the AVRs internal tones bypass Audyssey so they can't be trusted. The only way to be sure is to send a signal to your AVR from either a test CD or pink noise/sine wave generator (i.e. REW) with Audyssey ON and then check the levels with your SPL meter.

I have the Disney Wow blu ray, would that work?
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post #5719 of 7935
2/21/13 at 3:40pm
Yes, the "speaker level adjustment" and "subwoofer level adjustment" should work.

When you do this, you must make sure that you are sending a full range signal to all speakers (Multi Channel Stereo), turn Dynamic Vol, EQ & Restorer off, and then isolate each speaker by disconnecting all but the one you are testing. Kind of a pain - haven't actually done it myself, but was gonna try it out tonight.
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post #5720 of 7935
2/21/13 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulbalegend View Post

jdsmoothie (or anyone else who might know), this is a follow-up to my questions from before:

1a) Do you know if the multizone AVRs (1713 and up) can stream DLNA to zone 1 and Airplay from an iTunes library or iPhone to zone 2 simultaneously? And the reverse of this? Or can you only do one network-based source at a time?
(Actually, I would use MediaMonkey with an Airplay output plugin, not iTunes, but same deal.)

1b) Can you play one song with DLNA stream in zone 1 and a different song via DLNA in zone 2?

2) For models that include zone 2 preouts AND a powered zone 2, can both of these zone 2 outputs be used simultaneously? I'd like to have a third zone, though I know it would be linked to zone 2 and require it's own amplification.

Thanks.

1a. No.
1b. No.
2. Yes
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post #5721 of 7935
2/21/13 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I fried my 1613 mic connection on my AVR with static electricity. Luckily, I had a Bestbuy warranty and they gave me a new 1613. I got it set up and ran Audyssey and my sub went from a -2 to a -8. I didn't change anything on my subs and I couldn't believe it was off by 6db. I turned my Klipsch RW-12D down to -20db to get to -3db. I pulled out my RatShack spl meter and my sub is only reading 70db. My speakers were a lower level, but they were at 75-77db. Is my new mic more sensitive or could my AVR be the reason my settings are different.

Perhaps the analog gain knob on the sub was a bit off? Otherwise, the Audyssey mics are generally very accurate. Many find the sub setting to low, so simply bump it up 5db after running Audyssey. Are you using a tripod or mic boom stand to support the mic as suggested in the Owner's manual?
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post #5722 of 7935
2/21/13 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Perhaps the analog gain knob on the sub was a bit off? Otherwise, the Audyssey mics are generally very accurate. Many find the sub setting to low, so simply bump it up 5db after running Audyssey. Are you using a tripod or mic boom stand to support the mic as suggested in the Owner's manual?

Yes, I am using a tripod. I'll play with my settings tonight.
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post #5723 of 7935
2/21/13 at 5:39pm
Hi I am new to this forum an I am sorry if this has been asked before. I have an AVR 2313 that is connected to a HTPC via HDMI and optical cable. I played my BD disks with DTS-HD Master when I got the thing setup, and the display and info showed DTS-HD. Then I updated the firmware... Now the disply and info only say DTS... So I think it only uses the DTS core... Anyone else had that problem? I have resett the AVR from the instructions in the begining of the thread, but no help. I know it gets a digital signal since it shows DTS and Dolby Digital when tracs like that are choosen, but no DTS-HD. That was the whole point of getting this Denon AVR....
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post #5724 of 7935
2/21/13 at 5:49pm
Originally both the audio and video were only going through the HDMI cable and now apparently the audio has been diverted to the optical cable. Remove the optical cable connection as a test, although not sure why you need it at all?
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post #5725 of 7935
2/22/13 at 12:17am
Via HDMI I only get stereo because of how the HTPC sees the AVR2313. So I use optical to make sure it gets the full monty... There should not be any cable problems, and the AVR do encode DTS.... So I am at a loss here.
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post #5726 of 7935
2/22/13 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblodo View Post

Via HDMI I only get stereo because of how the HTPC sees the AVR2313. So I use optical to make sure it gets the full monty... There should not be any cable problems, and the AVR do encode DTS.... So I am at a loss here.
Maybe try a soft reset (unplugging overnight) and see if that cures it? If not, processor reset?
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post #5727 of 7935
2/22/13 at 2:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblodo View Post

Via HDMI I only get stereo because of how the HTPC sees the AVR2313. So I use optical to make sure it gets the full monty... There should not be any cable problems, and the AVR do encode DTS.... So I am at a loss here.

If the HDMI is only passing stereo then the optical cable cannot pass DTS HD, rather it can only play the "core" (ie non-HD) DD/DTS track so it would seem everything is operating as it should. smile.gif
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post #5728 of 7935
2/22/13 at 6:17am
Hm, let me be a bit more spesific. I have 2 HTPC connected, one via HDMI and optical toslink, the other one just with HDMI. The one with HDMI has Windows 7 and can correctly identify the audio channels. I have PowerDVD 10 , vlc, mpv-hm and xbmc installed on both boxes. The newest HTPC has Windows 8, and I think that is why it only sees stereo via HDMI. I also have a BD player connected. I can verbose a lot more if needed. My point is that it worked fine until I updated the firmware. Since it plays DTS and DD it must have working cables. The HDMI cables are from Monster, and are all 1.4a. The place I got it from is not really helping.... So i might just return it and forget Denon...
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post #5729 of 7935
2/22/13 at 6:25am
Denon AVR-3313 + Emotiva XPA-3 or XPA-5???

I have been recently assailed by a bad irresistible case of speaker-upgradeitis, and, as a result, I have started a project of slowly replacing speakers in my current main ht set-up with Polk Lsi's... The idea is to enhance my listening experience, as I plan to listen to more music than I usually do with this particular HT set-up in the coming years. When complete, all seven speakers in this ht will be Lsi's which are all 4 ohm speakers and famously "power-hungry", which is where the idea of adding an Emotiva Amp to my Denon 3313 comes in. Now here are my questions:

1. Will this added amp make an audible difference when paired with this particular Denon?

2. If so, Will I need to power all 7 channels with the amp in order to hear that audible difference, or will powering only the fronts (w/ the XPA-3) or only 5 speakers (with the XPA-5) suffice. By the way, if an amp is absolutely necessary, I wouldn't mind going with the XPA-3 if that is a viable option, since my budget is not exactly unlimited.

3. Since using an amp is also meant to protect the receiver from getting dangerously overworked, I should ask if there are any risks in having the receiver power just 2 or 4 of the rear channels?

4. Let me add that, I do not normally listen at very high volumes. 99 % of my listening experience will be at -30 or below.

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks.
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post #5730 of 7935
2/22/13 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblodo View Post

Hm, let me be a bit more spesific. I have 2 HTPC connected, one via HDMI and optical toslink, the other one just with HDMI. The one with HDMI has Windows 7 and can correctly identify the audio channels. I have PowerDVD 10 , vlc, mpv-hm and xbmc installed on both boxes. The newest HTPC has Windows 8, and I think that is why it only sees stereo via HDMI.
Which version of Win8? Have you upgraded it to include the Media Center software? While the detection of HDMI capabilities should be a function of whatever software is driving the computer's HDMI port (usually the HDMI audio drivers are included with the graphics drivers provided by the manufacturer of the graphics chipset -- AMD, Intel or Nvidia), I could imagine Win8 hiding that information by default if Media Center isn't installed. frown.gif
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I also have a BD player connected. I can verbose a lot more if needed. My point is that it worked fine until I updated the firmware. Since it plays DTS and DD it must have working cables.
Well, the optical cable, anyhow. The HDMI cable might have gotten damaged bhy accident
Quote:
The HDMI cables are from Monster, and are all 1.4a. The place I got it from is not really helping.... So i might just return it and forget Denon...
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ