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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 192

post #5731 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

Denon AVR-3313 + Emotiva XPA-3 or XPA-5???

I have been recently assailed by a bad irresistible case of speaker-upgradeitis, and, as a result, I have started a project of slowly replacing speakers in my current main ht set-up with Polk Lsi's...
I trust you're actually auditioning different brands of speakers and not just buying the Polks because the "should" sound better. I'm not saying they're bad (I've never auditioned Polks), just that you might find other models that you like more. Speakers are the most important part of an audio system, along with room acoustics. Electronics are a very distant third.
Quote:
The idea is to enhance my listening experience, as I plan to listen to more music than I usually do with this particular HT set-up in the coming years. When complete, all seven speakers in this ht will be Lsi's which are all 4 ohm speakers and famously "power-hungry", which is where the idea of adding an Emotiva Amp to my Denon 3313 comes in. Now here are my questions:

1. Will this added amp make an audible difference when paired with this particular Denon?
How big is the room? Is it acoustically "dead" or "lively"? More power is needed for large, dead rooms than for small, lively ones. The most effective way to increase sound levels is to get more efficient (sensitive) speakers instead of increasing amplifier power. With quality amps (like in the receiver) you won't hear an audible difference in the quality of the sound vs a separate amps unless you have to drive them close to their maximum capacity -- close to the point where they start clipping.
Quote:
2. If so, Will I need to power all 7 channels with the amp in order to hear that audible difference, or will powering only the fronts (w/ the XPA-3) or only 5 speakers (with the XPA-5) suffice. By the way, if an amp is absolutely necessary, I wouldn't mind going with the XPA-3 if that is a viable option, since my budget is not exactly unlimited.
As you add external amplifiers on more of the speakers, the receiver becomes less loaded, and more capable of driving the remaining speakers to a higher level -- until it reaches the maximum capacity of the receiver's amps, of course. Some people use an external stereo amp (or pair of monoblocks) to drive just the front speakers. Some use a multichannel amp to drive everything but the front speakers. And some use them to drie everything. Mostly it's a personal choice.
Quote:
3. Since using an amp is also meant to protect the receiver from getting dangerously overworked, I should ask if there are any risks in having the receiver power just 2 or 4 of the rear channels?
No.
Quote:
4. Let me add that, I do not normally listen at very high volumes. 99 % of my listening experience will be at -30 or below.
Remember that Audyssey calibrates your system so that it will be able to provide full reference volumes at the primary listening position. CD volumes often have to be played at -30dB because they're produced without regard for the reference levels used for movies. What matters so far as the receiver and external amp configuration is concerned is the power required to provide the desired sound level at the listening position. An external sound-level meter can be useful to find out what that is.

Sorry: I didn't really answer your specific question very well, "Are external amps needed?" because it very much depends....
post #5732 of 10467
I'd like to get my 1913 to bypass audio in Stanby. I don't quite understand all the terminology in the Trouble shooting guide. I have a Samsung UN7100 and DTV HR34 (no optical). When I first turn on the TV and DTV box I get video only for 10 seconds then it drops out and I have to power on the AVR and set it to Satalite. Is this a handshake issue? Not sure if I should try the reset procedure, get an optical run from TV to AVR, or add a separate cable from DTV box to AVR as the HR 34 has no optical. Other than juggling remotes, love it.
post #5733 of 10467
Did you set the AVR to bypass?
Quote:
http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html

To get the HDMI standby passthrough feature to work, use the following procedure:

Set HDMI Control to ON in the Denon
Designate the "Standby Source" for passing through (if available)
Make sure the HDMI Audio setting is set to AMP (not TV!) as you only want audio passing through to the TV when the unit is powered down
With this configuration, when you power down the Denon into Standby, it should pass the designated source through to your TV. If you get video but no audio, try turning off the HDMI-CEC control in the TV, as this has been known to interfere with the HDMI passthrough! It is counter-intuitive, but the HDMI-CEC in the TV will often interfere with the HDMI-CEC in the receiver. HDMI is, unfortunately, a fairly flaky format and a lot of these features that seem like they will make your life easier often end up screwing things up! I always recommend disabling these HDMI-CEC features unless you want to utilize a specific funtion (for example, the HDMI passthrough on the Denon).
post #5734 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

It wouldn't hurt to verify that there are no fine strands of wire shorting to adjacent speaker posts at both ends of the cables -- at the back of the receiver and at the speakers. People often use banana plugs to terminate their speaker cables so that they can wire the connections in the open in a good light instead of down on their knees in the dark wink.gif

Sent it back. I can recreate the problem by running it all day, turning it off, and then the next day it does the same thing again.
Using different and very short banana plugs at both ends speaker cables.

Not prepared to live with it. Expecting credit return and will get another one in it's place.
Hopefully it will work reliably ... thanks all for help and input ...
Julian
post #5735 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I trust you're actually auditioning different brands of speakers and not just buying the Polks because the "should" sound better. I'm not saying they're bad (I've never auditioned Polks), just that you might find other models that you like more. Speakers are the most important part of an audio system, along with room acoustics. Electronics are a very distant third.


Sorry: I didn't really answer your specific question very well, "Are external amps needed?" because it very much depends....

Wow! What a helpful and detailed response! Fantastic! Selden:

I have to say that I have not been auditioning other speakers yet. I know there are better speakers out there, but I have been using different polk speakers over more than a couple of decades now, and I'm sort of hooked on them. I'm currently using a pair of Rti10s and a Csi5 in an ht set up that I enjoy very much for purely ht purposes... However for the new set up that is meant to be dedicated more to music listening, I wanted to upgrade to the Lsi series, as they're sort of famous for sounding better with music.

I was interested in the amp for two reasons: 1. the possibility that it would make the speakers sound better than the Denon 3313? and 2. The possibility that it would be better matched to the 4 ohm speakers, than the Denon (this is because from some of the forums I have read on the internet, it sounds sometimes as if the 4 ohm speakers might pose some kind of risk to the Denon by overtaxing it... I'm not really sure about this, which is why I am asking)...

On another note, I am wondering whether I should ditch the amp-idea altogether and invest the money in a set of LSIM fronts instead. The LSIM's are rated at 8 ohms, so they do not come with the headache of posing some mysterious possible threat to the Denon 3313, and they're also rumored within the online community of polkies to be heads and shoulders/leaps and bounds better sounding than the LSi's So maybe I should work on getting the lsim fronts and ditching the idea of the emotiva amp? I already have a pair of lsi7's that I could use as surrounds in this scenario... This is a thought that just crossed my mind, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Your response has been wonderful, even though I'm still not completely clear as to whether I might absolutely require the amp. Thanks a lot for the input, just the same.
post #5736 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsianMan View Post

I just bought the AVR-1713 and cannot get Airplay to work. All devices (iPad/iPhone/MacBook Pro) see the Denon but all try to switch but then stop playing. The error on my MBP:
I have trying turning off and unplugging as well as resetting the microprocessor 3-4 times. I have tried starting from blank input, input with video, and network input all without any success. It is clearly attempting to connect as the input switches to network, says Airplay, and has the circle loading any time I hit the play button whether on the Denon (center/OK button) or the source device trying to stream. The receiver is wired while devices are over N wifi (and none have problems with the internet). Any suggestions?
Anyone have any ideas?
post #5737 of 10467
MM,
My airplay issue was due to a providers Gateway that did not support multicast. Plugged the AVR directly to a spare wireless router with no internet connection; success. Still working with provider on a replacement/shopping for my own equipment. Good luck
post #5738 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblodo View Post

Hm, let me be a bit more spesific. I have 2 HTPC connected, one via HDMI and optical toslink, the other one just with HDMI. The one with HDMI has Windows 7 and can correctly identify the audio channels. I have PowerDVD 10 , vlc, mpv-hm and xbmc installed on both boxes. The newest HTPC has Windows 8, and I think that is why it only sees stereo via HDMI. I also have a BD player connected. I can verbose a lot more if needed. My point is that it worked fine until I updated the firmware. Since it plays DTS and DD it must have working cables. The HDMI cables are from Monster, and are all 1.4a. The place I got it from is not really helping.... So i might just return it and forget Denon...

Note that being Monster cables simply means you paid to much for them and not that their quality is necessarily any better than a $5 cable from Monoprice and the HDMI version has no impact whatsover on the audio. It could be an issue with Windows 8 possibly.
post #5739 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

I was interested in the amp for two reasons: 1. the possibility that it would make the speakers sound better than the Denon 3313? and 2. The possibility that it would be better matched to the 4 ohm speakers, than the Denon (this is because from some of the forums I have read on the internet, it sounds sometimes as if the 4 ohm speakers might pose some kind of risk to the Denon by overtaxing it... I'm not really sure about this, which is why I am asking)...

At your lower listening level, the use of 4-ohm speakers should not be an issue at all.
post #5740 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobones View Post

I'd like to get my 1913 to bypass audio in Stanby. I don't quite understand all the terminology in the Trouble shooting guide. I have a Samsung UN7100 and DTV HR34 (no optical). When I first turn on the TV and DTV box I get video only for 10 seconds then it drops out and I have to power on the AVR and set it to Satalite. Is this a handshake issue? Not sure if I should try the reset procedure, get an optical run from TV to AVR, or add a separate cable from DTV box to AVR as the HR 34 has no optical. Other than juggling remotes, love it.

The HR34 has a coax digtal output that will work just as well as an optical output would work. Connect HDMI to the TV with digital coax to the AVR. You can use a yellow composite video cable as a suitable substitute for a coax digital cable or buy one from Monoprice.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2680&seq=1&format=2
post #5741 of 10467
Hi again, I did a NIC reset and setup my system one more time, and now it works from my BD player and my HP xw4600 converted to HTPC... HDMI all the way. Thanks for the input. Now I only have to get the new HTPC working. It sends DTS out, but not DTS-HD. But i guess that is a AMD or realtec issue. I also have to tweek a bit, since I think the audio I get is way to metalic and cold. I am used to the warm Marantz...


Btw here is my new HTPC build info:

Silverstone Grandia SST-GD06B HTPC
Corsair CX 600W PSU ATX 12V V2.3, 80 Plus Bronze, Standard. 2x 6+2pin PCIe, 6x SATA, 4x Molex
AMD A-Series A10-5700 Socket- FM2, Quad Core, 3.4Ghz, 65W, 4MB, Radeon HD7660D
ASUS F2A85-M PRO, Socket-FM2
Crucial DDR3 1333MHz 16GB KIT, CL9
Samsung SSD 840 Series 250GB 2.5"
ASUS BW-12B1ST, Blu-Ray Writer SATA, BD-R:12x, BD-R DL: 8x, DVD±R: 8x, Cyberlink BD Suite, 3D support
Logitech Wireless Touch Keyboard K400
Microsoft Windows 8 64bit


Since Windows 8 is capable of playing BD and does so, it is strange it only plays stereo. But I will figure it out. Thanks again.
post #5742 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblodo View Post

Since Windows 8 is capable of playing BD and does so, it is strange it only plays stereo. But I will figure it out. Thanks again.

 

First thing to verify... the sound card lists the various HD Encoded Formats...

 

  • Control Panel - Sound - Highlight Default Driver - Properties - Supported Formats

 

If not, you need to install the video/audio drivers for the video card. Windows 8 may have installed a generic driver.

post #5743 of 10467
I have recently moved from Yamaha RX-V750 to Denon 3313. I have a Klipsch KSW-10 Sub with an Auto-Off option, which used to work flawlessly with Yamaha. On Denon, when it is powered on it just stays on even if the AVR has been switched off.

I have Network IP-control set to Always on, which should not be a problem as the Sub should not be getting any signal from AVR's pre-out when in standby mode.
post #5744 of 10467
Possibly an issue with the sub itself? Easy enough to confirm though by simply unplugging the cable from the AVR after the sub has been playing for awhile.
post #5745 of 10467
I've tried that already and it seems to be shutting off automatically after a while as intended. One important thing I forgot to mention is that I get a constant hum from the sub when it is connected to AVR.
post #5746 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

At your lower listening level, the use of 4-ohm speakers should not be an issue at all.

JD: Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been really anxious about using the 4 ohm speakers, so it is helpful to know they will pose no problems.
post #5747 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saliss View Post

I've tried that already and it seems to be shutting off automatically after a while as intended. One important thing I forgot to mention is that I get a constant hum from the sub when it is connected to AVR.

Ah .. yes that is quite important and the reason it's not shutting off. Try replacing the cable. If you still have the Yamaha, reconnect the sub to it and see if the hum is still present. Try to narrow down whether the issue is with the sub or the 3313CI and replace the one that is defective.
post #5748 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by sahmen View Post

JD: Thanks for clearing that up for me. I've been really anxious about using the 4 ohm speakers, so it is helpful to know they will pose no problems.

Sure. I'd go sans amp in the beginning and only add it should you decide you want more volume. You can also set the "Volume Limit" setting to 60/-20db to ensure no one can raise the AVR too loud which would cause it to shut down in protection mode.
post #5749 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saliss View Post

I've tried that already and it seems to be shutting off automatically after a while as intended. One important thing I forgot to mention is that I get a constant hum from the sub when it is connected to AVR.

A constant hum is often caused by grounding problems in the cables coming into a CATV or satellite decoder box. They often can be eliminated by an inline isolator. e.g. http://www.milestek.com/p-13537-digital-catv-isolator.aspx

(there are others)
post #5750 of 10467
Hey guys, got a couple questions -- Loving my new 1913.


Whenever I turn on my receiver, it automatically goes to TV Audio when the sound is through the Cable/Satellite. Is there any way to make this stop automatically switching to TV Audio?

Can someone *please* do an idiot-proof way to setting up Zone2? My partner keeps forgetting how to go into Setup -> switching to BI-AMP to hit both rooms and likewise for Zone2 for one room. I've honestly looked through the manual on how to set up a Zone2, but, I just don't know.

Currently BI-AMP is hitting all four speakers (2 speakers in living room, 2 speakers in bedroom). Zone2 is hitting just the bedroom speakers. I would *love* a way to just do a one click on the remote so it automatically does this.


edit: Is it possible to use wireless speakers with this receiver??
Edited by Kuriin - 2/23/13 at 10:00am
post #5751 of 10467
AVR 3313ci Remote trigger question.

I hooked up the "Trigger Out 1" to a Belkin Power Console PF60 "Trigger In"
I used a 3.5mm male to 3.5mm male mono cable, as is recommended, and nothing worked. The Denon is supposed to put out 12vdc, the Belkin is supposed to work with 3 ~ 30vdc.
I checked the voltage at the Belkin end of the cable, it measured 3mv, not nearly what it should.
It turns out the new cable has an internal short.

So, the question.... All I have in my spare cable box is 3.5 to 3.5 stereo cables....Will that work, or should I go buy another mono cable?
post #5752 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuriin View Post

Hey guys, got a couple questions -- Loving my new 1913.


Whenever I turn on my receiver, it automatically goes to TV Audio when the sound is through the Cable/Satellite. Is there any way to make this stop automatically switching to TV Audio?

Can someone *please* do an idiot-proof way to setting up Zone2? My partner keeps forgetting how to go into Setup -> switching to BI-AMP to hit both rooms and likewise for Zone2 for one room. I've honestly looked through the manual on how to set up a Zone2, but, I just don't know.

Currently BI-AMP is hitting all four speakers (2 speakers in living room, 2 speakers in bedroom). Zone2 is hitting just the bedroom speakers. I would *love* a way to just do a one click on the remote so it automatically does this.


edit: Is it possible to use wireless speakers with this receiver??


1. The AVR is switching to the TV source because you have HDMI-CEC (Anynet+, VierraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) on the TV enabled (perhaps to use the ARC feature to pass the TV's smart app audio back to the AVR) so set it to OFF and only set it to ON when you want to pass the audio back to the AVR or better yet, simply connect an optical cable from the TV to the AVR instead of using the ARC feature.

2. That's certainly an uncoventional configuration for speakers in another room although it does of course work. Zone 2 can only be changed by setting the AMP ASSIGN setting as you are currently doing. Another approach is to use the AMP ASSIGN (Front B) setting and then set the Front Speaker Setup setting as desired (p.115 OM). A programmable universal remote (eg. Harmony) would likely make the process a bit simpler.

3. Wireless speakers for the main zone or Zone 2? The 1913 has neither a main zone analog output nor Zone 2 pre-outs so you would need a wireless kit that would connect to speaker level connections. Otherwise if for Zone 2 only, you get Zone 2 pre-outs beginning with the 2113CI.
post #5753 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

A constant hum is often caused by grounding problems in the cables coming into a CATV or satellite decoder box. They often can be eliminated by an inline isolator. e.g. http://www.milestek.com/p-13537-digital-catv-isolator.aspx

(there are others)

I would just add (in case it wasn't obvious) to unplug other devices from the AVR one a a time until you find the culprit. It is likely going to be a box that is connected to something from the outside, like the cable box, but could be anything. I've had ground loop problem with two components just plugged into outlets on opposite sides of the room.
post #5754 of 10467
Hi - I just got a Denon 3313C recently and after blowing a fuse in my house I'm having a problem with it. It turns on fine, and I can activate the different zones and sources,but there is no video output to the TV, and none of the setup / info buttons do anything when I press them (both using the receiver and using the remote). I tried turning it on/off, and then did the reset using the info/back buttons, but I'm still having the same problem. Any ideas on what I can do? Thanks!



edit --
This is probably not related, but just in case - I just started using 2 supercube 2000s and I just found out that there is a recall out for them. The manufacture dates and serial number match..

SuperCube2000 Safety Recall Info

Recalled Product: Definitive Technology SuperCube2000

Units manufactured in September 2012 with serial numbers containing the letters "HB" series code are covered by this recall.

We have discovered a manufacturing defect in some Definitive Technology SuperCube2000 powered subwoofers built in September 2012 that could lead to a shock hazard. In some units, an improperly installed internal lead could cause 120 volt current at the connections on the back panel of the subwoofer, potentially causing an electric shock if the connecter is touched while the unit is powered.

If you own a SuperCube 2000 purchased after November 1, 2012, please unplug the subwoofer AC cord at the wall and check your serial number. Immediately discontinue the use of any SuperCube2000 subwoofers with the letters "HB" in the serial number.

If you have an affected model, please contact Definitive Technology directly at 800‐228‐7148 or your dealer and we will replace it for you at no charge. We apologize for the inconvenience, but your safety is of the utmost importance to us.
post #5755 of 10467
It's possible that whatever blew the fuse also caused electrical damage to the HDMI board on the AVR as well. Try leaving it OFF for at least 10 minutes and then power it on doing another microprocessor reset. If still no joy, then it's likely insurance/warranty time. frown.gif
post #5756 of 10467
Thanks - If that doesn't work do you think I can exchange it as best buy since I bought it less than a week ago?

Also going forward is there any way to prevent this (aside from not blowing any fuses..). I have everything plugged into a sturdy surge protector strip so I thought I was OK
post #5757 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

1. The AVR is switching to the TV source because you have HDMI-CEC (Anynet+, VierraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) on the TV enabled (perhaps to use the ARC feature to pass the TV's smart app audio back to the AVR) so set it to OFF and only set it to ON when you want to pass the audio back to the AVR or better yet, simply connect an optical cable from the TV to the AVR instead of using the ARC feature.

2. That's certainly an uncoventional configuration for speakers in another room although it does of course work. Zone 2 can only be changed by setting the AMP ASSIGN setting as you are currently doing. Another approach is to use the AMP ASSIGN (Front B) setting and then set the Front Speaker Setup setting as desired (p.115 OM). A programmable universal remote (eg. Harmony) would likely make the process a bit simpler.

3. Wireless speakers for the main zone or Zone 2? The 1913 has neither a main zone analog output nor Zone 2 pre-outs so you would need a wireless kit that would connect to speaker level connections. Otherwise if for Zone 2 only, you get Zone 2 pre-outs beginning with the 2113CI.

jdsmoothie: You know you're stuff! Amazing. So, in order for me to stop switching it to TV Audio, I just turn it off in the Setup? But, doesn't that mean no audio will come out in general? Or is it just anything that is related to the TV? I have all my inputs connected to the receiver outputs.

About #2: Yeah, we were having issues with trying to figure out how to just isolate the bedroom speakers without being forced to using RCA cables because that probably meant using RCA cables for the BD player as well. I'll check the universal remote out.

About #3: What do you mean wireless kit? I don't mind buying like a wireless adapter...I was hoping to add a speaker to the bathroom and by the front of the bed, and maybe outside. Can you please elaborate?


edit: By the way, I had an optical cable plugged in it, but, then I read on these forums that the use of HDMI was so much better (I actually thought optical was better at first...). Just trying to figure out a way to make this simple. :|
Edited by Kuriin - 2/23/13 at 3:21pm
post #5758 of 10467
I just found out my Onkyo has been boosting movie soundtracks 10db. Fortunately, there is a setting to turn it off. Does Denon have this same issue? And if so, is there a way to turn it off?
post #5759 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody777 View Post

I just found out my Onkyo has been boosting movie soundtracks 10db. Fortunately, there is a setting to turn it off. Does Denon have this same issue? And if so, is there a way to turn it off?

Boosting 10db? What was doing that?

One thing Ive learned, depending on brand, there are certain options you can only get to with the proper input signal (Dolby is the worst). I always use my spears and munsil disc to play demos that are PCM, Master HD and TrueHD, that way I can get into the audio menu and see what else comes alive and make sure its set right or turned off.
post #5760 of 10467
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Boosting 10db? What was doing that?

One thing Ive learned, depending on brand, there are certain options you can only get to with the proper input signal (Dolby is the worst). I always use my spears and munsil disc to play demos that are PCM, Master HD and TrueHD, that way I can get into the audio menu and see what else comes alive and make sure its set right or turned off.

Apparently, movie sound tracks get a 10db boost to the LFE channel. This is commonly done at the player, however, some older receivers (like my Onkyo) can do it at the receiver as well. In my case, I was getting the 10db boost from my player and my receiver.

I don't think I quite understand exactly what's happening, so here's a link:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/748147/lfe-subwoofers-and-interconnects-explained

I assume I wouldn't have this problem with any recent Denon, but I just want to make sure.
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