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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 253

post #7561 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancym71 View Post

Thanks. I bought the AirPort Express but according to Apple it can only act as a bridge to a an Apple network, not to another such as FiOs which is what I have. I'm somewhat skeptical though as I've seen other posts elsewhere claiming success in doing so. If you have any more insight I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

ANCyM71
The Apple Airport Express can either be a stand alone wireless base station or a wireless Ethernet bridge (most common usage). The analog/optical jack out is used to run optical cable to a AVR for Airplay not that its used for fiber-optic communications. The Airport Express has a internal DAC so it can provide superior audio interface then use a miniature stereo interconnect going to the AVR.
post #7562 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Quote:
I'm having a very annoying sound problem with Denon 3313ci and my HTPC : half of the time my computer boots or restart, i don't have any sound and

The only way to get back my sound is to reboot my HTPC or restart my receiver.

I've had issues with hdmi video handshake in the past, so i have tried the EDID override trick and ended up buying a Gefen HDMI Detective. That fixed all problems i had with hdmi handshake. But now i'm having problems with audio

I have tried to remove my HDMI Detective but i'm still having problems with audio.

I've tried different sound mode on my receiver and it doesn't change anything. Currently it is set to Multi CH stereo and i'm still having problems. I have also tried with a different input and tried letting the receiver set the sound mode by itself.

setup:

- HTPC with sound over hdmi
- HIS iSilence H775P1GD Radeon HD 7750
- Denon 3313ci
- Windows 8
There's a utility which makes HDMI audio much more reliable with Nvidia cards. I dunno if it helps with AMD Radeon cards. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1317491/silent-stream-bug

Just tried it, doesn't fix my problem frown.gif
post #7563 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchoi View Post

Just tried it, doesn't fix my problem frown.gif

Try different video/audio drivers. I'm using a Detective Plus with Win7/AMD video connected to a 3313 and have never had audio issues.
post #7564 of 10468
Hello,

I just bought a 1713 and hooked it up today. For the most part it sounds worlds better than the Pioneer I had before. However, I am having an issue with the surround sound decoding. I should also mention that I've always seen these issues with receivers.

There are only two devices hooked (HDMI) up to the receiver transmitting DTS or DD, our Dish Hopper and a Roku 3 box with Plex installed on it (Media library served locally from our home server). Both devices have been configured to transmit surround sound (so no decoding to stereo) and configured to know about the existence of the AVR. The sound problem is universal among devices so I know it's not the audio encoding format of the video file in Plex causing it as not only does it occur on every 5.1 capable video file, but also on the hopper.

Basically, the receiver will recognize the audio signal (as confirmed by the status button and it displaying the proper protocol); but the sound itself is very muffled. Like someone stuffed all the speakers with pillows. Tons of low end audio. All speakers will transmit the proper sound, just not clearly. It happens with both the Roku3 and any station transmitting surround on the Hopper.

I've tried every setting on the receiver and they all sound terrible. Audyssey is configured properly (went through that twice) and the basic setup functions of the receiver have been performed in accordance to the instructions. From what I understand "Direct/Pure Direct" should be the setting and the receiver should auto sense the signal and push it accordingly. As mentioned before it shows that it senses properly, but it sounds terrible.

Any ideas. I've seen this a lot before so I feel like it's a newb problem, I just cant figure it out.

Thanks for any help.

-Colter
post #7565 of 10468
Actually ... DIRECT/PURE DIRECT should "NOT" be the settings as both settings will disable Audyssey and bass management, rather select either DD or DTS. Also ensure that your FL/FR speakers are toed in towards the main listening position (ie. mic #1 position) as well as ensuring the center speaker is pulled out (if inside a cabinet) to just over the edge and angled up towards the ear height of the main listening position with no coffee table in front of the couch/seating blocking the signal. Note also that if you do make any speaker orientation adjustments, rerun Audyssey again.
post #7566 of 10468
That's interesting; I'll pursue it with another tech. One issue I kept having when trying to set up the Express was that for some reason the wifi connection on my MacBook Pro kept getting lost or reset or something; I don't know the technical term. Anyway, I had to re-set-up my laptop's wifi about four times. I got very frustrated and after what the Apple tech told me I reboxed the Express with the intention of returning it. I'll reconsider this based upon your experience. What cable/WiFi service do you have? Cox? FiOs? Other?
post #7567 of 10468
Thanks for that. The tech was pretty clear in saying the Express won't work as a bridge to my FiOs router, only to either another AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme linked/connected to FiOs. Again, I'm getting more replies and seeing more posts noting otherwise. If you have any install suggestions I'd appreciate them. I had a very frustrating time trying to set up the Express as a bridge. One thing that kept happening was my laptop's wifi kept disappearing/being disconnected. I had to re set it it up three or four times.
post #7568 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

The Apple Airport Express can either be a stand alone wireless base station or a wireless Ethernet bridge (most common usage). The analog/optical jack out is used to run optical cable to a AVR for Airplay not that its used for fiber-optic communications. The Airport Express has a internal DAC so it can provide superior audio interface then use a miniature stereo interconnect going to the AVR.

Thanks. Can you point me toward detailed, easy to understand instructions for doing this? I thought using the Express as the wireless bridge would be easier and seamless since it's the AirPlay function I want to use on the receiver.
post #7569 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceknyght View Post

I am using the Airport Express with my setup and it works great! I had some (frustrating) time getting it set up (just some security issues that weren't explained well), but once I got it figured out, it's been working like a champ ever since! I have a UVerse Wifi router in one bedroom and the AE connected to the 3313 downstairs via wifi and I have yet to have any networking problems. I have even downloaded and installed (successfully) 2 updates already... smile.gif

That's interesting; I'll pursue it with another tech. One issue I kept having when trying to set up the Express was that for some reason the wifi connection on my MacBook Pro kept getting lost or reset or something; I don't know the technical term. Anyway, I had to re-set-up my laptop's wifi about four times. I got very frustrated and after what the Apple tech told me I reboxed the Express with the intention of returning it. I'll reconsider this based upon your experience. What cable/WiFi service do you have? Cox? FiOs? Other?
post #7570 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan25 View Post

I think there was a misunderstanding regarding "Apple network". It is a device designed to bridge or extend a network that happens to have some cool functionality with iOS devices, but will support other devices as well.

Thanks for that. The tech was pretty clear in saying the Express won't work as a bridge to my FiOs router, only to either another AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme linked/connected to FiOs. Again, I'm getting more replies and seeing more posts noting otherwise. If you have any install suggestions I'd appreciate them. I had a very frustrating time trying to set up the Express as a bridge. One thing that kept happening was my laptop's wifi kept disappearing/being disconnected. I had to re set it it up three or four times.
post #7571 of 10468
Ok. So as it turns out the center speaker is blown. :-((( How I'm not sure it's a rather expensive Klipsch KV2 that's been sitting on the shelf for years with almost no loud use....

Ugh.. Anybody have a nifty and easy way to test speakers to see if they're blown. Might as well check the others too...

-Colter
post #7572 of 10468
If you need to replace that kv2 they aren't that expensive I should have a walnut one soon I don't really need.
post #7573 of 10468
I have a 7.1 setup, 3313. Watching the movie 9, DTS Master HD. What's difference between the DTS master HD (SB on) and DTS master +PL IIx cinema?
post #7574 of 10468
Two different methods of simulating the rear surround speaker audio tracks from the DTS 5.1 original movie track.
post #7575 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Two different methods of simulating the rear surround speaker audio tracks from the DTS 5.1 original movie track.

Ok. So do they basically present the same final sound? And just different methods to get there like you said?
post #7576 of 10468
Two different technologies ... DTS vs. DD, although you may or may not notice much difference between them.
post #7577 of 10468
According to batpig, dts-HD 5.1 just copies the Surround info to SB; believe PLIIx C is a Matrix, in Stereo, iIrc.
post #7578 of 10468
It was always my understanding at a very basic level that DTS was better when all of the speakers are the same or close in size and DD is better when you have say towers in front and a smaller surround speaker in the rear?
post #7579 of 10468
Quote:
If you need to replace that kv2 they aren't that expensive I should have a walnut one soon I don't really need.

Thanks man. Yeah, let me know how much. Mine's walnut too, so it'd be perfect. I found a couple manuf. replacement cones on eBay for around $50. I'm pretty sure it's just the cone in it that's gone, but I would love to have another one anyway.

-Colter
post #7580 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Actually ... DIRECT/PURE DIRECT should "NOT" be the settings as both settings will disable Audyssey and bass management, rather select either DD or DTS. Also ensure that your FL/FR speakers are toed in towards the main listening position (ie. mic #1 position) as well as ensuring the center speaker is pulled out (if inside a cabinet) to just over the edge and angled up towards the ear height of the main listening position with no coffee table in front of the couch/seating blocking the signal. Note also that if you do make any speaker orientation adjustments, rerun Audyssey again.

Yeah after reading Mr. Batpig's manual I see that the direct/pure modes are not what I was understanding them to be. After some troubleshooting, I've figured out the cone in my center speaker is blown. I didn't realize how much responsibility the center had on the high end noises/sounds for the surround setup. I would have thought the encoding would send some of it to the front floor speakers. At least giving me some top end noise outside the center, but I digress.

Going back over the setup process, the center kept failing the "Phase" portion. I wonder if that was the receivers way of telling me somethings not right with it. rolleyes.gif

All of this really makes me want to investigate the actual design behind the software controlling all of this (The DD/DTS tech as well as the Audyssy platform).... Maybe it's the nieve coder in me, but it seems the methodology/design to this stuff isn't as smart as it could be... Like behind a little in relation to the rest of the tech development industry. No?
post #7581 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancym71 View Post

Thanks for that. The tech was pretty clear in saying the Express won't work as a bridge to my FiOs router, only to either another AirPort Express or AirPort Extreme linked/connected to FiOs. Again, I'm getting more replies and seeing more posts noting otherwise. If you have any install suggestions I'd appreciate them. I had a very frustrating time trying to set up the Express as a bridge. One thing that kept happening was my laptop's wifi kept disappearing/being disconnected. I had to re set it it up three or four times.

Well, there needs to be a carful distinction between the vocab of "bridge" and "extend/repeat". You should be able to have the AE connect to the existing wifi and simply "extend" or "repeat" it, essentially just forwarding the data. It dumbs the AE down to nothing more than a glorified hub and leave the FIO's as the router/brain. But it should doll out IP addresses to all devices authenticated and routing through the AE against the FIOs as well as liven up the LAN port on the AE. I do the same with my AE on my household Cisco router.

I didn't read into the history of your situation too much, but from what I gather here what your trying to do shouldn't be to difficult.

Source: I'm a network engineer/tech nerd.

-Colter
post #7582 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Two different technologies ... DTS vs. DD, although you may or may not notice much difference between them.

So your saying the sound mode selection "DTS Master HD +PLIIx Cinema," is a Dolby sound mode?

Anyway, anyone know of any good links that explains the science behind these different sound modes?
post #7583 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColterLovette View Post

Well, there needs to be a carful distinction between the vocab of "bridge" and "extend/repeat". You should be able to have the AE connect to the existing wifi and simply "extend" or "repeat" it, essentially just forwarding the data. It dumbs the AE down to nothing more than a glorified hub and leave the FIO's as the router/brain. But it should doll out IP addresses to all devices authenticated and routing through the AE against the FIOs as well as liven up the LAN port on the AE. I do the same with my AE on my household Cisco router.

I didn't read into the history of your situation too much, but from what I gather here what your trying to do shouldn't be to difficult.

Source: I'm a network engineer/tech nerd.

-Colter

Thanks, Colter. Here's the short of it: I have FiOs wifi at home. I want to connect my Denon 3313ci to the home network wirelessly using the AirPort Express so that I can use the AirPlay function. I figured using an Express would be the best option by keeping it all in the Apple family. Apple said it can't be done; I've been told otherwise by several parties who about this sort of stuff. I've attempted to set up the Express on my own about five times and have failed each time. I've used instructions that came with the device, those I've found on Apple's site, and on other sites to no avail. I'm at a point where I'm looking to hire a local tech-nerd/geek to come by and do it for me. It'll be worth the price. Any insights or direction you can offer - such as pointing me toward good instructions is helpful!

Thanks.

ANCyM71
post #7584 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So your saying the sound mode selection "DTS Master HD +PLIIx Cinema," is a Dolby sound mode?

Anyway, anyone know of any good links that explains the science behind these different sound modes?

The DD PLIIx feature that simulates the rear surrounds is a Dolby product, correct.
post #7585 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So your saying the sound mode selection "DTS Master HD +PLIIx Cinema," is a Dolby sound mode?

Anyway, anyone know of any good links that explains the science behind these different sound modes?

Here's what I've gathered so far. DTS and Dolby are two different companies that both develop audio software that are the front runners in the industry. DTS being an SRS company and Dolby being Dolby.

Each company has a sound code "suite" coded for different purposes and preferences. What can get confusing, I think, is the terminology in the different names of each product within each company's product suite. Terminology like ProLogic, HD or Cinema. All of which both companies use, however still very different between the two.

Each product under each suite is simply a differently coded codec to suffice the want and needs for your particular application. For example one codec might use a range of frequency different than another (the defining difference between each selected product). Each company builds a codec that separates frequencies in the manner that they believe sounds the best, names it and markets it.

So basically, two companies developing similarly named products that serve similar purposes, but utilize frequency ranges differently. Depending on your preference and hardware, one product development by one company may sound better than another. DTS and Dolby are simply the two industry dominators in the development of encoding products and are the two prominent companies utilized by the motion picture industry.

An elementary explanation, sure. Correct me if I am wrong, but thats how I understand it with my software/development mindset.
Edited by ColterLovette - 5/4/13 at 10:52am
post #7586 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancym71 View Post

Thanks, Colter. Here's the short of it: I have FiOs wifi at home. I want to connect my Denon 3313ci to the home network wirelessly using the AirPort Express so that I can use the AirPlay function. I figured using an Express would be the best option by keeping it all in the Apple family. Apple said it can't be done; I've been told otherwise by several parties who about this sort of stuff. I've attempted to set up the Express on my own about five times and have failed each time. I've used instructions that came with the device, those I've found on Apple's site, and on other sites to no avail. I'm at a point where I'm looking to hire a local tech-nerd/geek to come by and do it for me. It'll be worth the price. Any insights or direction you can offer - such as pointing me toward good instructions is helpful!

Thanks.

ANCyM71

Google is your friend ... I found this seconds ago ....

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1731
post #7587 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The DD PLIIx feature that simulates the rear surrounds is a Dolby product, correct.

So does the industry essentially share their developments with each-other? Like, DTS buys a license to use Dolby tech in their codec development?
post #7588 of 10468
No as that's not what is happening. The AVR is using DD PLIIx to simulate the SBL/SBR channels from the 5.1 DTS audio track.
post #7589 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancym71 View Post

Thanks, Colter. Here's the short of it: I have FiOs wifi at home. I want to connect my Denon 3313ci to the home network wirelessly using the AirPort Express so that I can use the AirPlay function. I figured using an Express would be the best option by keeping it all in the Apple family. Apple said it can't be done; I've been told otherwise by several parties who about this sort of stuff. I've attempted to set up the Express on my own about five times and have failed each time. I've used instructions that came with the device, those I've found on Apple's site, and on other sites to no avail. I'm at a point where I'm looking to hire a local tech-nerd/geek to come by and do it for me. It'll be worth the price. Any insights or direction you can offer - such as pointing me toward good instructions is helpful!

Thanks.

ANCyM71

Ok, here's a short list of what you need to do to get it to work.

Write down the existing wifi SSID (the network name) & password for your fios box (BTW, Is it an Actiontec modem?).

Reset your AE:

-Unplug the AirPort Base Station or Time Capsule from power.

-Press and hold the reset button with a pen or pencil, then plug the AirPort Base Station or Time Capsule back in while continuing to hold the button until you see the light (LED) flash rapidly. This should happen after a few seconds.

-Release the button. This will factory default reset the AirPort Base Station or Time Capsule.

Go to your mac and open up the Airport Utility.

The AE should eventually resolve to the "Other Airport Base Stations". If it doesn't after about 10 mins, go unplug it and plug it back in. If it still wont resolve, go grab a network cable and physically plug it into the fios router. We just need to get it to communicate to your mac right now.

Once it does, during setup you should see options that will allow you to "Extend a Wireless Network".

Once selected, you should see some fields or options to fill in the SSID you wrote down and the authentication fields. All of this has to be exact to what your FIO's has setup so the AE can authenticate against it (Just like any wireless device does, like your mac for instance).

Once it connects up finish the rest of setup. (You shouldn't need to change anything more, the default values will be fine).

When it finishes and everything is done. Unplug the AE and let it sit for a min. Plug it back in and wait for the light on the front to turn solid green.

At this point it should be extending the wireless and successfully connected up.

If its not already you can now go plug it in by your receiver and run a LAN cable from the express to the receiver. Thats it really on the network side. Simply go throuh the network config on the receiver to make sure its pulling an IP and that its setup to allow the network functions to operate.

You're done.
post #7590 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No as that's not what is happening. The AVR is using DD PLIIx to simulate the SBL/SBR channels from the 5.1 DTS audio track.

Oh ok, so it's the receiver combining codecs to produce a simulated surround sound?
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