or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 258

post #7711 of 10468
Why do you think this would get you kicked off the thread?

Listening is very subjective. However, most people do like the way Audyssey sets things up, so you may want to consider that you didn't do it correctly. Have you reviewed the Audyssey 101 FAQ mentioned near the top of this thread? Did you use a microphone stand?

It certainly is possible that you prefer it the way you have it set up. In my own experience, once I ran Audyssey (I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the FAQ, etc. before going through the procedure) I was amazed at how good it sounded. However, I never before spent any time trying to set up any previous receivers. I just used them out of the box.

I have a Velodyne subwoofer and based on the Audyssey setup, had to set the volume to around 2.5 out of 10. However, this makes my music sound really good (in my opinion) and action movies really shake the house.

There are others that can offer much better assistance, but just wanted to give one person's take on it. Good luck getting the receiver set up the way you like.
post #7712 of 10468
Quote:
Perhaps I've been listening to is "wrong" for so long that it's just a matter of what I'm use it...?
And that is the case...We are exposed to much stronger sound everywhere around us that when we finally hear what it is 'supposed' to sound like, we feel it is...lacking when in reality it isn't. Set it up again, and use it like that for a solid, straight 2 weeks minimum and during this time,,,'listen'...Do not 'hear it' but 'listen', analyze the sound for all your sources. I will wager you do not go back to what you were used. Yes, you WILL need to 'tweak' the sound here and there, but certainly nothing like you are stating in your post.

Remember, there is no 'right or wrong' here. YOU are the one listening and YOU are the one to decide how you like it. wink.gif
post #7713 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

And that is the case...We are exposed to much stronger sound everywhere around us that when we finally hear what it is 'supposed' to sound like, we feel it is...lacking when in reality it isn't. Set it up again, and use it like that for a solid, straight 2 weeks minimum and during this time,,,'listen'...Do not 'hear it' but 'listen', analyze the sound for all your sources. I will wager you do not go back to what you were used. Yes, you WILL need to 'tweak' the sound here and there, but certainly nothing like you are stating in your post.

Remember, there is no 'right or wrong' here. YOU are the one listening and YOU are the one to decide how you like it. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post

Why do you think this would get you kicked off the thread?

Listening is very subjective. However, most people do like the way Audyssey sets things up, so you may want to consider that you didn't do it correctly. Have you reviewed the Audyssey 101 FAQ mentioned near the top of this thread? Did you use a microphone stand?

It certainly is possible that you prefer it the way you have it set up. In my own experience, once I ran Audyssey (I spent a lot of time reading and re-reading the FAQ, etc. before going through the procedure) I was amazed at how good it sounded. However, I never before spent any time trying to set up any previous receivers. I just used them out of the box.

I have a Velodyne subwoofer and based on the Audyssey setup, had to set the volume to around 2.5 out of 10. However, this makes my music sound really good (in my opinion) and action movies really shake the house.

There are others that can offer much better assistance, but just wanted to give one person's take on it. Good luck getting the receiver set up the way you like.

Thank you both for your replies. Yes, I was exaggerating when I said I would get kicked off the threads as I'm sure I'm in the minority here. I am definitely intrigued by the thought of giving it some time. I think I will leave the Audyssey setting on for a few weeks and see how it goes.

Thanks again!
post #7714 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by midfiman View Post

So this may even get me kicked off the thread...

So I got a refurbished 2313 on a steal from Denon Direct. I went through the Auddysey setup and did all of the correct setup procedures, etc. However, once it was setup, I just didn't like the sound compared to manual setup. I found the center to be way too low and the surrounds to be way too high. Also, the subwoofer wasn't turned up anywhere near as much as I like it (not a basshead, just like to feel it a little more).

Additionally, I like being able to control the tone as I like my sound a little bit more dynamic. I know this goes against what most people say the settings should be but that's how I like it.

Am I missing something? Is is odd that I prefer my own manual settings to Auddysey? Perhaps I've been listening to is "wrong" for so long that it's just a matter of what I'm use it...?

Midfi...


On my Denon, Audyssey XT set the levels as follows:

FL -2.0 (73.5db when checked with my trusted SPL meter)
C -5.5 (70.5db) "
FR +2.0 (77.0db) "
SR 0.0 (76.0db) "
SL +1.0 (76.5db) "
Sub -3.0 (2.0db louder than Center Speaker. It's tough to use a meter on the sub, gotta trust Audyssey here)


However, when checked with a SPL meter that I trust, I changed the trims as follows:

FL -0.5 (75db)
C -1.0 (75db)
FR 0.0 (75db)
SR -1.0 (75db)
SL -0.5 (75db)
Sub +1.0 (sub still 2.0db louder than Center Speaker, trusting Audyssey's balance)


As you can see, Audyssey set my center speaker far too low, and it was obvious during any real world material. Some will say that the Audyssey mic is more accurate, but my ears told me that the Center was incorrect, and my trusted meter agreed. As for the distances, I left them as found by Audyssey. I raised the x-over from the Audyseey settings of 60hz, to my tried and true preferred 90hz.


EDIT: Also, make sure that you have Dynamic EQ turned on, as it really does make a world of difference. But don't also turn your sub trim up as well, as you will get too much base especially at volumes much lower than 0.0db on the master volume.
Edited by D Bone - 5/12/13 at 5:52pm
post #7715 of 10468
Keep in mind tha tthe Audyssey mic (and likely your "trusted" mic as well) has an error rate of +/-2db and also note that for TV/music listening, setting the Dyn EQ Reference Level Offset to 10db will help to boost the center channel dialog.
post #7716 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

setting the Dyn EQ Reference Level Offset to 10db will help to boost the center channel dialog.

I have never read that the RLO has anything to do with the "boost center channel dialog". It's my understanding that it merely tells Audyssey to "do less" (-10) when the volume is turned down from reference when compared to say 0db RLO, and by less I mean less bass boost and less surround boost. This is straight from Chris to me.


EDIT: I should also say that the Denon is the 2nd Audyssey XT receiver to be in my room (all else equal). The first was my broken Onkyo 709 and I just looked up it's auto trim levels (yes I write stuff like that down cool.gif ) and they were all just a "little low" when compared to my SPL meter:


FL -1.5
C -2.5
FR -1.5
SR -0.5
SL 0.0
Sub -1.5

As you can see, that -5.5db finding of the Denon is not in line with either my SPL meter or another Audyssey receiver & mic. It should be known that I mapped my last 709 calibration both in terms of where the mic was placed, by measuring off multiple walls and the floor, and I also mapped the order in which I placed each mic in its location. I repeated the exact same procedure when I calibrated the Denon................... A center speaker 3db too low is definitely not something that I desire in a setup. tongue.gif
Edited by D Bone - 5/12/13 at 6:56pm
post #7717 of 10468
We've talked about this many times in this thread. The purpose of Dyn EQ is to boost the bass/surround audio which in turn tends to drown out the center channel dialog for TV and music listening so by reducing the impact of Dyn EQ you increase the center channel dialogue clarity.
post #7718 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

We've talked about this many times in this thread. The purpose of Dyn EQ is to boost the bass/surround audio which in turn tends to drown out the center channel dialog for TV and music listening so by reducing the impact of Dyn EQ you increase the center channel dialogue clarity.


I'm fairly new to the thread, I didn't realize you talked about it many times. Yes, I agree with what you said above, which was different than how you first worded it, at least to me anyway. Either way, while Audyssey is a great tool, and an absolute must have for me, it is not perfect, not by a long shot. The OP should feel free to tweak his trims to get the best sound that he can, for himself, in his room.
post #7719 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

The bigger question is why are you not receiving your GUI? The Gui is a very big selling point and a Must have feature in my opinion on these avr's . Any idea why?

I have no idea and still haven't been able to solve this problem. I just edit the settings through a web browser now. So it's not too big of a deal.


Is there any difference between PLII Music vs PLII Game?
post #7720 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Have you tried setting the "i/p Scaler" to OFF or setting the "Video Conversion" to OFF?
Yeah, I had already tried turning both of those off to no avail. Any other suggestions?
post #7721 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowJ20 View Post

I have no idea and still haven't been able to solve this problem. I just edit the settings through a web browser now. So it's not too big of a deal.


Is there any difference between PLII Music vs PLII Game?

You should still have your Gui for convenience or for no other reason than if something is wrong it doesn't lead to more possible failure with your hdmi board. What model avr do you have and how are they hooked up?

Yes there are differences in PL ll Music vs PL ll Game but not sure what exactly they are but someone should be able to help you out there.
post #7722 of 10468
Hi. Got the 1713 and 1913 on their way to me this week. Crutchfield is letting me pick which one I want. I only need 5.1 and like the 1713's Audyssey XT, but I was wondering if having no 1080p upscaling is going to be an issue? I have a Panasonic P60ST60, so maybe it will do the upconversions for me? Also do any of their receivers do 2D to 3D conversion, and is 2D to 3D conversion any good? Thanks for the help.
post #7723 of 10468
Thread Starter 
The upscaling in the receiver is unlikely to make a difference. First of all, most sources these days are already in HD to begin with, and second, the TV is a fixel pixel 1080p display and already will scale up lesser resolutions as an inherent process of displaying it. Plus many sources (cable boxes, blu-ray players, etc) are also able to scale the signal up to 1080p from the start. Scaling in the receiver would only beneficial if it was visibly superior to what the display or source is already capable of doing.

No receivers that I am aware of do 2D to 3D conversion, and I highly doubt it would be any good even if they did!! tongue.gif
post #7724 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The upscaling in the receiver is unlikely to make a difference. First of all, most sources these days are already in HD to begin with, and second, the TV is a fixel pixel 1080p display and already will scale up lesser resolutions as an inherent process of displaying it. Plus many sources (cable boxes, blu-ray players, etc) are also able to scale the signal up to 1080p from the start. Scaling in the receiver would only beneficial if it was visibly superior to what the display or source is already capable of doing.

No receivers that I am aware of do 2D to 3D conversion, and I highly doubt it would be any good even if they did!! tongue.gif

Cool, thanks! I am going to stick with the 1713 then.
post #7725 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Well since you already are getting both of them might as well try them out for yourself wink.gif I'm just a guy on the internet, your own eyes & ears should be the final judge!
post #7726 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Hi. Got the 1713 and 1913 on their way to me this week. Crutchfield is letting me pick which one I want. I only need 5.1 and like the 1713's Audyssey XT, but I was wondering if having no 1080p upscaling is going to be an issue? I have a Panasonic P60ST60, so maybe it will do the upconversions for me? Also do any of their receivers do 2D to 3D conversion, and is 2D to 3D conversion any good? Thanks for the help.

To chime I I have the both the 60st60 and the 1913 and oddly enough was toying with the 1913's scaler while watching price is right this morning. The upconverted 1080p looked better IMO than the 1080i coming from the cable box.
post #7727 of 10468
Thread Starter 
The Price is Right is definitely the reference standard for judging the quality of 1080i>p deinterlacing tongue.gifbiggrin.gif
post #7728 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

You should still have your Gui for convenience or for no other reason than if something is wrong it doesn't lead to more possible failure with your hdmi board. What model avr do you have and how are they hooked up?

Yes there are differences in PL ll Music vs PL ll Game but not sure what exactly they are but someone should be able to help you out there.


I hooked the receiver to my PC via HDMI. And I have the 1713.
post #7729 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The Price is Right is definitely the reference standard for judging the quality of 1080i>p deinterlacing tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

I don't hop on the couch with my blankly and watch test patterns...:-)
post #7730 of 10468
Hey guys,

So I am loving my 2313. It really has pretty much everything that I could ask for. However, I am having one problem, and I'm assuming it's user error...

I'm trying to connect the receiver to my computer and am not having alot of luck. I have a desktop in my library where all of my music is stored on internal hard drive. This machine is running Windows 8. I turned on file sharing via settings and left the computer on (not in sleep mode). At first, the denon showed EMPTY when I went into the option to play music from my computer. However, when I went back in, it showed a little PC icon with a music note next to it. The right arrow was highlighted by I couldn't go anywhere with it.

I think tried to stream music via my Win7 laptop and that was no problem at all. Perhaps its a Win8 compatability issue? Also, I haven't specified where the files are on the Win8 machine. How do you navigate (not that I've gotten to that point)?

The desktop is furthest from the router so the signal isn't as strong as the laptop, but still enough to browse the internet, etc.

Any thoughts?!

Thanks in advance!

Midfi
post #7731 of 10468
post #7732 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowJ20 View Post

I hooked the receiver to my PC via HDMI. And I have the 1713.


As long as you have Hdmi from the avr to the Tv you should receive the GUI. If you are watching your Pc via Hdmi from your receiver to the Tv try hitting the info button. If no Gui try a Microprocessor reset and see if that resolves your issue. You will have to rerun your Audyssey though.so do it when you have the time. If still no go you might want to call Denon.

Edit: No need to rerun Audyssey as 1713 supports the Save and Load features for Audyssey via the Web Control feature.
Edited by spager - 5/13/13 at 5:12pm
post #7733 of 10468
So I was watching The Amazing Spiderman on DVD and the receiver automatically displayed Dolby Digital. However, I picked up Jack Reacher on Blu Ray from RedBox and the receiver just shows MULTI IN. I looked at all of the settings on my Blu Ray player and it all looks okay.

Is this just a defect with the Blu Ray disc itself or is something wrong with my settings??
post #7734 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by midfiman View Post

So I was watching The Amazing Spiderman on DVD and the receiver automatically displayed Dolby Digital. However, I picked up Jack Reacher on Blu Ray from RedBox and the receiver just shows MULTI IN. I looked at all of the settings on my Blu Ray player and it all looks okay.

Is this just a defect with the Blu Ray disc itself or is something wrong with my settings??

Is your bd player a ps3? Sounds like your player us decoding the audio before it hits the reciever
post #7735 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Is your bd player a ps3? Sounds like your player us decoding the audio before it hits the reciever

Just a regular Sony. But isn't it strange that DD shows up for the DVD that I played but this Blu Ray that I rented from Red Box shows Multi In? So my thought is that the settings are correct since we at least know that the receiver can display DD, but just not for this disc perhaps...?
post #7736 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by midfiman View Post

So I was watching The Amazing Spiderman on DVD and the receiver automatically displayed Dolby Digital. However, I picked up Jack Reacher on Blu Ray from RedBox and the receiver just shows MULTI IN. I looked at all of the settings on my Blu Ray player and it all looks okay.

Is this just a defect with the Blu Ray disc itself or is something wrong with my settings??

Nothing wrong . The Blu-Ray is decoding the audio and it will come through as Multi In. if you set your BR Player to Bitstream it will show the surround mode on your avr. There is no difference in SQ.
post #7737 of 10468
What Sony player and what are the audio output settings? Most Sonys use the HDMI handshake to determine what to send. If the AVR had the needed decoder, the player bitstreams the track for the receiver to decode.

Spiderman has a DD 5.1 track on DVD and the player sends that to the receiver for decoding.

Meanwhile , Reacher has an encoded lossless track which your receiver can also decode. However. , if you have the BD Mix setting set to On, which is the default, the player will decode the track itself so that it can mix in secondary audio. Depending on the player you own, it may not use the lossless track when mixing in the extra audio.
Edited by BIslander - 5/13/13 at 6:26pm
post #7738 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

Nothing wrong . The Blu-Ray is decoding the audio and it will come through as Multi In. if you set your BR Player to Bitstream it will show the surround mode on your avr. There is no difference in SQ.

Exactly what I was getting at...
post #7739 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

Nothing wrong . The Blu-Ray is decoding the audio and it will come through as Multi In. if you set your BR Player to Bitstream it will show the surround mode on your avr. There is no difference in SQ.

Exactly what I was getting at...
But only if the player is actually decoding the lossless track. Some don't when mixing in secondary audio.
post #7740 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

But only if the player is actually decoding the lossless track. Some don't when mixing in secondary audio.

No need to confuse the poster if he has a problem after setting the BD Player to Bitstream then chime in. Although some BD Players may have a different name schemes to get to Bitstream but ounce he gets there he should not have a problem seeing his audio surround mode on his receiver.
Sorry, but I am chiming in because of some incorrect information that's being given to the OP. frown.gif Sony players don't have a bitstream setting when using an HDMI connection. It does't just go by another name. There is simply no such setting. That's because the player decides what to do based on a combination of audio settings and the HDMI handshake with the processor. With most Sonys, bitstream of lossless codecs on Blu-ray only happens when HDMI Audio is set to Auto and BD Mix is set to Off. While i suppose this information might confuse the OP, hopefully it will help him understand how his player functions and why he gets a DD 5.1 output from a DVD but not with a Blu-ray. He can also learn how to set up his player so that he actually can get a lossless bitstream output.

The other issue at hand is whether his player is decoding the lossless track. Older Sonys used the lossy DTS core, not the full dts-MA version, when Mix was set to On. Newer ones do not have that restriction.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ