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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 268

post #8011 of 10468
So what can I do with the LFE, I've seen you guys talk about it and read all I can find, but I don't grasp the concept. Is it even applicable with my set-up?
post #8012 of 10468
If you only plan on playing 2.0 music tracks then no, however, if you plan on playing DD/DTS 5.1 movie tracks then yes. LFE is the 0.1 in DD/DTS 5.1 audio tracks which would be dedicated to the sub if one were in your setup, however, as you apparently only have 2 speakers (FL/FR), this signal would be sent to the FL/FR speakers instead.
post #8013 of 10468
Oh wow, that's awesome! I do watch more content than I listen to music, probably 70/30. That said, I just switched it to 150 from 250 listening to music and love the result already. The woofer instantly cut and the 4's picked up the difference. Is that too low for a 4" midrange? I know theres a lot to be said for personal preference, just wondering what the general rule-of-thumb is.

I'll also refrain from further tweaking until I pop in a BD, although that should be retained by source, yes?

Yea, the current room doesn't really afford space for surrounds (with the size of these cabinets I'll be hard-pressed to find space for a sub!), so the Dayton's are moving to Zone 2 until we buy a house.
post #8014 of 10468
Man, the woofer sounds so good at 120. No doubt the best stereo configuration for what I currently have. I'll play with it for BD, but I bet the cut comes down to 100 (for the neighbors sake at least) to balance dialogue.

Holy cow real speakers really make me appreciate how versatile these amps are.
post #8015 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

Your MacBook Pro actually has an optical out as part of the headphone jack. If you can get a cable like this you can play the audio in full digital glory.

I learn something new every day. And I assume I can plug in the other end to the receiver using an optical in? Yes, I'm still very very much a newbie to my 3313 - sigh.

Thanks.

ANCyM71
post #8016 of 10468
Correct. smile.gif Simply assign the optical input to an unused source name, unless you want to use the default "TV" source.
post #8017 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I checked with Denon and the answer is no planned upgrades.

Hi,

does anyone know if the new firmware this month support the 24bit /192khz format that has been seen on some literature from denon? Has anyone done the upgrade to their 3313?

thanks.
post #8018 of 10468
I apologize in advance if the answer to this question is buried somewhere in this massive thread, but in my ongoing attempt to play my SACD and DVD-Audio library on my AVR3313-CI, I have decided to get a new universal player, specifically, an Oppo. I'm trying to decide between the 103 or the 105. I am used to high-res audio playback via D-link with an older DVD-3910 and an AVR3805. From what I've read here, the only way to play these high-res formats using the 3313 (besides HD D-link with a Denon player) is via HDMI. I gather the biggest difference between the 103 and the 105 is that the 105 has a significantly better DAC section. I'm guessing this makes a substantial difference in sound quality when using the analog outs, but what about with an HDMI connection? Would I be paying an extra $700 for an upgrade benefit I am not going to be able to utilize?
post #8019 of 10468
With HDMI it's not going to matter much as it sends just as complete a signal as analog, the difference is which component you want to do the converting. You bought an AVR for a reason, let it do its job. The pre-outs are more for those with discrete components, basically just another option for connection. :bouttogetsmackeddownforthis:

As to the quality of the DAC, with a sticker at $700 more, it's probably a safe bet that it is more robust.

My advice, buy a PS3.
post #8020 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan25 View Post

My advice, buy a PS3.

I already have two of those (a SACD compatible FAT 80 gig model and a 250 gig Super Slim version). I don't think SACD's sound as good with the PS3 as they did with my old D-link setup. That's why I'm looking for a dedicated universal player.

If I understand you correctly, even with HDMI, there may be a sonic advantage to having the Oppo 105 doing the decoding instead of the 3313?
post #8021 of 10468
Hello - I am considering buying a 2113CI, but would like your advice.

I currently have a Sony STR-DA4ES, I am upgrading primarily to have DD+ and Audassy, the more modern feature set is nice too.
  1. The DA4ES is rated as 110watts @ 80hm. The 2113CI is rated at 95watts. I realize this looks like a small difference, but do Sony and Denon rate differently, therefore maybe it is a big difference? Room size is 12.5' x 12.5'.
  2. Is the sound quality if the Denon CI line above or below the quality of the Sony ES line? I realize this may be subjective, but opinions are welcome.
  3. It has been a year since the XX13 line has come out - Does Denon upgrade their line yearly? I am thinking that maybe I could wait a few weeks and get a better deal on the 2113CI
  4. Given my desire for DD+ and Audassy, would I lose anything if I looked at a prior year model, such as the 2112CI?
  5. Finally - I see a new 2113CI at quite a discount on EBay, does Denon honor the warranty in all cases, or must it be an authorized distributor?

Thanks in advance.
post #8022 of 10468
Does anyone know what the power output is on headphone jack of the Denon 1913?

I am wondering if I can power some of the higher end headphones using the 1913 as the DAC and amp, rather than needing to buy a seperate headphone dac/amp.

I checked the manual, but I only saw power ratings for the speaker outputs, not for the headphones.
post #8023 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan25 View Post

My advice, buy a PS3.

I already have two of those (a SACD compatible FAT 80 gig model and a 250 gig Super Slim version). I don't think SACD's sound as good with the PS3 as they did with my old D-link setup. That's why I'm looking for a dedicated universal player.

If I understand you correctly, even with HDMI, there may be a sonic advantage to having the Oppo 105 doing the decoding instead of the 3313?
'

Remember that Audyssey cannot be applied to the receiver's multi-channel analog audio inputs. If you use one of the stereo analog inputs, you've introduced an extra unnecessary analog-to-digital conversion, and you're still using the receiver's digital-to-analog outputs to drive the speakers.

There are two levels of decoding: first from DSD (SACD's digital format) to LPCM, and then from LPCM to analog. Either DSD or LPCM can be sent over the HDMI connection from the player to the receiver. In principle, there should be no audible difference between the two, but you should compare them for yourself. Although some receivers are limited in the processing they can apply to a DSD or high-bit-rate LPCM signal, it's better to have the receiver receive a digital HDMI signal instead of analog so that Audyssey room equalization can be applied. The audio improvement provided by Audyssey usually is much greater than the subtle difference provided by using higher quality DACs.
post #8024 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

I already have two of those (a SACD compatible FAT 80 gig model and a 250 gig Super Slim version). I don't think SACD's sound as good with the PS3 as they did with my old D-link setup. That's why I'm looking for a dedicated universal player.
Is that the 1st gen BC model? I didn't know they were SACD, time to get it fixed I guess.
post #8025 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by snash22 View Post

Hello - I am considering buying a 2113CI, but would like your advice.

I currently have a Sony STR-DA4ES, I am upgrading primarily to have DD+ and Audassy, the more modern feature set is nice too.
  1. The DA4ES is rated as 110watts @ 80hm. The 2113CI is rated at 95watts. I realize this looks like a small difference, but do Sony and Denon rate differently, therefore maybe it is a big difference? Room size is 12.5' x 12.5'.
  2. Is the sound quality if the Denon CI line above or below the quality of the Sony ES line? I realize this may be subjective, but opinions are welcome.
  3. It has been a year since the XX13 line has come out - Does Denon upgrade their line yearly? I am thinking that maybe I could wait a few weeks and get a better deal on the 2113CI
  4. Given my desire for DD+ and Audassy, would I lose anything if I looked at a prior year model, such as the 2112CI?
  5. Finally - I see a new 2113CI at quite a discount on EBay, does Denon honor the warranty in all cases, or must it be an authorized distributor?

Thanks in advance.
1. Doubtful
2. Don't know
3. They just released, but I bet prices stick now, they've already given pretty significant price drops
4. I think on the first page there's a comparison chart for xx12 vs. xx13 models
5. Pretty sure it has to be an authorized retailer, but I could be wrong.
post #8026 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

'

Remember that Audyssey cannot be applied to the receiver's multi-channel analog audio inputs. If you use one of the stereo analog inputs, you've introduced an extra unnecessary analog-to-digital conversion, and you're still using the receiver's digital-to-analog outputs to drive the speakers.

There are two levels of decoding: first from DSD (SACD's digital format) to LPCM, and then from LPCM to analog. Either DSD or LPCM can be sent over the HDMI connection from the player to the receiver. In principle, there should be no audible difference between the two, but you should compare them for yourself. Although some receivers are limited in the processing they can apply to a DSD or high-bit-rate LPCM signal, it's better to have the receiver receive a digital HDMI signal instead of analog so that Audyssey room equalization can be applied. The audio improvement provided by Audyssey usually is much greater than the subtle difference provided by using higher quality DACs.
So I didn't bungle that answer? Look, I'm learning!!! :-D
post #8027 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by snash22 View Post

Hello - I am considering buying a 2113CI, but would like your advice.

I currently have a Sony STR-DA4ES, I am upgrading primarily to have DD+ and Audassy, the more modern feature set is nice too.
  1. The DA4ES is rated as 110watts @ 80hm. The 2113CI is rated at 95watts. I realize this looks like a small difference, but do Sony and Denon rate differently, therefore maybe it is a big difference? Room size is 12.5' x 12.5'.
  2. Is the sound quality if the Denon CI line above or below the quality of the Sony ES line? I realize this may be subjective, but opinions are welcome.
  3. It has been a year since the XX13 line has come out - Does Denon upgrade their line yearly? I am thinking that maybe I could wait a few weeks and get a better deal on the 2113CI
  4. Given my desire for DD+ and Audassy, would I lose anything if I looked at a prior year model, such as the 2112CI?
  5. Finally - I see a new 2113CI at quite a discount on EBay, does Denon honor the warranty in all cases, or must it be an authorized distributor?

Thanks in advance.

1. The Sony is listed at 110 @ 8ohms only when testing out individual channels:


Amplifier Output Details 110.0 Watt - 8.0 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05 % - 2.0 channel(s) ( Front ),
110.0 Watt - 8.0 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05 % - 2.0 channel(s) ( Center ),
110.0 Watt - 8.0 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05 % - 1.0 channel(s) ( Surround ),
110.0 Watt - 8.0 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05 % - 1.0 channel(s) ( Rear center )
Who knows what the actual output is when all channels are driven. This is a common marketing ploy.
The Denon 2313ci Amplifier output details: 105 Watt -, 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD0.05 % - 7 channel(s), 6 Ohm - THD0.7 % - 7 channel(s)
So basically you'll get much more power per channel with the Denon.

2. I actually exchanged a 2013 Sony TRD1030 for a Denon 1913. Although Sony had a MUCH improved receiver offering in 2013, I can tell you the the Denon blew it out of the water sound wise. I like Sony as a company don't get me wrong. Big PS3 fan boy here, but go with the Denon.

3. Yes they do / it won't come down much more then it is now.

4. The 2112 is a great receiver - It's got as many sound formats as does the 2113 .. nothing to worry about there. Also they both use Auddesey multi eq XT so no worry there either. The only difference I think is that the 2113 has 4k upscaling. But it shouldn't be a selling point unless you're planning on keeping the receiver for a a while, as I don't think 4k TV's will be affordable for at least a few years.

5. I'd make sure that the dealer you buy from is factory authorized to take advantage of the warranty. I quick email or phone call to Denon will tell you one way or the other.

Cheers!
post #8028 of 10468
What is the common thought on buying a floor model receiver? I'm looking at a Denon 2113CI from Electronics Expo with full Denon warranty for $317.12. It was a demo. I can't imagine any level of abuse, but not sure. If anyone has experience that might steer me away please let me know.

Cheers.
post #8029 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by snash22 View Post

Hello - I am considering buying a 2113CI, but would like your advice.
  1. Finally - I see a new 2113CI at quite a discount on EBay, does Denon honor the warranty in all cases, or must it be an authorized distributor?

Thanks in advance.

No. Denon will not accept warranty claims from any purchases but from authorized dealers. A refurbished model 2113 with one year warranty can be purchased from accessories4less for $390. They are an authorized dealer.
post #8030 of 10468
can the denon 2113 access the usb externl drive connected to the asus RT -66u router?

I think I need a mediaplayer in between but am no sure.

I didn't find an answer I've been reading the thread for over 2 hours.... smile.gif

thanks,
Kris
post #8031 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan25 View Post

Is that the 1st gen BC model? I didn't know they were SACD, time to get it fixed I guess.

It's the "Metal Gear Solid" bundle. I believe it is the last one to include SACD playback capability. you can check for your model in this list.
post #8032 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

'

Remember that Audyssey cannot be applied to the receiver's multi-channel analog audio inputs. If you use one of the stereo analog inputs, you've introduced an extra unnecessary analog-to-digital conversion, and you're still using the receiver's digital-to-analog outputs to drive the speakers.

There are two levels of decoding: first from DSD (SACD's digital format) to LPCM, and then from LPCM to analog. Either DSD or LPCM can be sent over the HDMI connection from the player to the receiver. In principle, there should be no audible difference between the two, but you should compare them for yourself. Although some receivers are limited in the processing they can apply to a DSD or high-bit-rate LPCM signal, it's better to have the receiver receive a digital HDMI signal instead of analog so that Audyssey room equalization can be applied. The audio improvement provided by Audyssey usually is much greater than the subtle difference provided by using higher quality DACs.

Excellent. So I guess I go for the 103 and save $700 since I'm not really going to benefit from the 105 as there are no 5.1 analog inputs on the 3313. Thanks all for the help!
post #8033 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

It's the "Metal Gear Solid" bundle. I believe it is the last one to include SACD playback capability. you can check for your model in this list.
It appears the FAT's all had it, but I don't see the 40GB on there. Whatever, it's the 60 I want fixed anyway.
post #8034 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Verbeeck View Post

can the denon 2113 access the usb externl drive connected to the asus RT -66u router?

I think I need a mediaplayer in between but am no sure.

I didn't find an answer I've been reading the thread for over 2 hours.... smile.gif

thanks,
Kris
Is there software that has to run to access the drive? If so, you're SOL I believe.
post #8035 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewonderer View Post

Hi,

does anyone know if the new firmware this month support the 24bit /192khz format that has been seen on some literature from denon? Has anyone done the upgrade to their 3313?

thanks.

Firmware change log information is posted in post #6 of this thread.
post #8036 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Verbeeck View Post

can the denon 2113 access the usb externl drive connected to the asus RT -66u router?

I think I need a mediaplayer in between but am no sure.

I didn't find an answer I've been reading the thread for over 2 hours.... smile.gif

thanks,
Kris

AFAIK, no, rather it must be connected directly to the AVR.
post #8037 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, no, rather it must be connected directly to the AVR.

Thanks for answering.

Well I'll still have to buy the router.
I have an external usb drive that neither my ps3 or AVR recognises when I attach it directly to them. My Panasonic tv has no problem however but than I bypass my AVR.

I need a different router because I don't have much reach with my current one. And read that the asus allows you to add two usb devices to the network. What really would be nice is that the denon can access it when it is connected. Otherwise i'll hope the PS3 can and than I'll use the ps3 as a streaming device.

I'll wait a while because maybe someone here has hands on experience. If not I probably buy the router anyway since I need the reach (current router only covers 20 feet. The asus should make 200 easily). If noone replies I'll edit my post and will share how it will work out. My guess is that I need the PS3 or a mediaplayer to access the drives attached to the router.
post #8038 of 10468
When connected to the TV, you may be able to get audio back to the AVR using either an optical cable or HDMI(ARC). Give your TV Owner's manual a read to confirm.
post #8039 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

When connected to the TV, you may be able to get audio back to the AVR using either an optical cable or HDMI(ARC). Give your TV Owner's manual a read to confirm.

I'm an idiot. Thanks. It works brilliantly. Have to reconsider my planned purchase now.
post #8040 of 10468
Probably been asked a million times, but can someone pls tell me how to get airplay working on both the main zone and zone 2 at the same time? Actually, I still haven't figured out how to use airplay in zone 2...

Thanks in advance and sorry for the basic nature of the question...
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