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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 278

post #8311 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah bjj View Post

Just ordered the 3313ci because my 2113ci wouldnt run my 4ohm speaker and didnt have pre amp outs. Really was liking the 2113 (less than 10 hours on it) so far. What kind of improvement will be noticable while jumping up to the 3313?l

Not huge.

I run a 3313 as my main, a 2113 in the bedroom and a 1513 with my PCs. Expect some improvement but no great leap. If I went up a notch to the 4520 then I'd be expecting real and obviously noticeable audio improvements for the money but not nothing huge from 2113 to 3313. The features are better on the 3313 which is the key differentiator.
post #8312 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by shokhead View Post

That's what I've done for years now but would like to have less cables and all hdmi.

Mighty expensive cost layout for "less cables and all HDMI" with no resulting upgrade in audio fidelity. Keeping in mind the current successor to the 3808CI is the 4520CI, at the very least you would be much better served upgrading to the new X4000 with the same XT32 + Sub EQ HT as the 4520CI for the additional bump in audio fidelity in addition to your goal of "less cables and all HDMI". Give Craig at AVScience sales a "call" tomorrow for his best price.

post #8313 of 10468
Thanks!
post #8314 of 10468
Hey guys, I am trying to decide if I will see a worthwhile boost in SQ by going from my Yamaha RX-V665 with YPAO to a Denon 2313 with Audyssey MultEQ XT. What are some of the advantages of Audyssey over YPAO?
post #8315 of 10468
Thread Starter 
You can watch the MultEQ "Product Tour" to understand some of the ways that MultEQ is superior to other basic parametric EQ based systems: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour

In real world terms the most definitive advantage is the fact that MultEQ devotes a bulk of its processing resources to correcting the subwoofer channel and bass frequencies, which is where most room-based acoustic issues arise. YPAO doesn't even EQ the subwoofer and has only limited bands of correction. So you are going to get more sophisticated correction of the more problematic areas.

Additionally, it's not just the room correction, as you also get the full Audyssey "suite" of technologies with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume added in. Dynamic EQ is especially important as it dynamically maintains tonal balance and surround immersion at all volumes, which means you will get richer bass, cleaner detail, and a more enveloping surround "bubble" at lower volumes. I don't think Yamaha receivers have any sort of equivalent loudness correction processing. Dynamic Volume also allows you to listen late at night or when you don't want to disturb neighbors while still maintaining rich audio quality.
post #8316 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You can watch the MultEQ "Product Tour" to understand some of the ways that MultEQ is superior to other basic parametric EQ based systems: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/tour

In real world terms the most definitive advantage is the fact that MultEQ devotes a bulk of its processing resources to correcting the subwoofer channel and bass frequencies, which is where most room-based acoustic issues arise. YPAO doesn't even EQ the subwoofer and has only limited bands of correction. So you are going to get more sophisticated correction of the more problematic areas.

Additionally, it's not just the room correction, as you also get the full Audyssey "suite" of technologies with Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume added in. Dynamic EQ is especially important as it dynamically maintains tonal balance and surround immersion at all volumes, which means you will get richer bass, cleaner detail, and a more enveloping surround "bubble" at lower volumes. I don't think Yamaha receivers have any sort of equivalent loudness correction processing. Dynamic Volume also allows you to listen late at night or when you don't want to disturb neighbors while still maintaining rich audio quality.

Thank you! This was incredibly helpful, and I think the Dynamic EQ/Volume will be especially helpful given that I am in an apartment and can't turn it up loud.

What would you consider to be the sweet spot in terms of value for a 7.1 with Audyssey MultEQ XT?
post #8317 of 10468
Thread Starter 
The 2113 or X2000 for sure.
post #8318 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't think Yamaha receivers have any sort of equivalent loudness correction processing.

Yamaha has adaptive dynamic range control. Its intended to address the same low volume issues as the Dolby suite. To be honest I used to switch it off, as I now do to dynamic volume and Cinema EQ.
post #8319 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 2113 or X2000 for sure.

How does the Denon 1712 compare to the 2113? Both are 7.1 receivers with comparable connections and Audyssey MultEQ XT. I don't necessarily need all the networking features, I use an airport express for airplay with my iPad.
post #8320 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't think Yamaha receivers have any sort of equivalent loudness correction processing.

Yamaha has adaptive dynamic range control. Its intended to address the same low volume issues as the Dolby suite. To be honest I used to switch it off, as I now do to dynamic volume and Cinema EQ.

Adaptive DRC is more equivalent to Dynamic Volume. I was referring the the loudness correction of Dynamic EQ.
post #8321 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Adaptive DRC is more equivalent to Dynamic Volume. I was referring the the loudness correction of Dynamic EQ.

Ok, yes that's correct. It's akin to dynamic volume. I still switch them both off smile.gif
post #8322 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 2113 or X2000 for sure.

How does the Denon 1712 compare to the 2113? Both are 7.1 receivers with comparable connections and Audyssey MultEQ XT. I don't necessarily need all the networking features, I use an airport express for airplay with my iPad.

The 1712 is basically identical to the 1912 and 2112 but with fewer features. All three were built on the same platform and had the same amps, same 6 HDMI inputs, but just differed in the specific features offered and the legacy connectivity.

The 1713 and X1000 replacements aren't really the same thing as they are 5.1 not 7.1 units (as you know) and are more akin to the lower level models. So in other words the 1712 was a "stripped down" 1912/2112 whereas the 1713 is a "souped up" 1613 and the X1000 is a "souped up" version of the E300.

So the 1712 should offer essentially identical sound quality as the 2113 / X2000 -- same amp power and same MultEQ XT correction -- but just with fewer features. You of course lose the networking stuff, and also video conversion of analog inputs to HDMI output. The 1712 also doesn't have a video scaler, so it's basically best used as an HDMI video switching / passthrough unit. The 2113 / X2000 have more flexibility for video scaling and conversion if you are running SD and/or legacy analog sources. And the newer models also have a nicer GUI that can overlay on 3D video.

The 1712 also lacks the front panel USB and HDMI ports that the 2113 / X2000 have, and it doesn't have the Zone 2 pre-outs of those models if you want to add a 2nd zone while maintaining a full 7ch setup in main zone. The X2000 also brings some enhanced multizone features with digital audio support and variable volume output for the pre-outs.

And, finally, a new 2113 / X2000 will of course have full 3-year warranty vs. the 1-year refurb warranty on a 1712.

So it boils down to whether you want to pay extra for the additional networking and video features, enhanced Zone 2 functionality, and the full 3-year warranty.
post #8323 of 10468
Thank you for all the help! I might consider going with one of the newer offerings, if I sell my current receiver I can still stay close to my $400 budget. Going to go take a look at some today and make a decision, thanks again for the help.
post #8324 of 10468
I have a denon Avr 2313 ci. My sone just bought me an apple tv device. Can some explain how to hook up to my system?

Thanks
post #8325 of 10468
Thread Starter 
HDMI cable from the source to the receiver. Done.
post #8326 of 10468
No Ethernet cable?
post #8327 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Apple TV works over WiFi.
post #8328 of 10468
Question: I have the Denon AVR-1613 along with Harman Kardon HKTS 16 5.1-Channel Speakers, that are powering my Panasonic TC-P65GT50. I have everything plugged into the receiver, and have the HDMI running to the ARC slot on the tv (HDMI 2). The problem I'm having is that I have to crank the volume on the receiver up to around 80 just to have it loud enough for the entire room to hear it. Anything below that is barely above a whisper. Is there some setting that I need to adjust to get the volume on this LOUD, or is it just they way this receiver is? I looked in the tv settings and the tv speakers are disabled and there really wasn't much in there I could mess with. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
post #8329 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The 1712 is basically identical to the 1912 and 2112 but with fewer features. All three were built on the same platform and had the same amps, same 6 HDMI inputs, but just differed in the specific features offered and the legacy connectivity.

The 1713 and X1000 replacements aren't really the same thing as they are 5.1 not 7.1 units (as you know) and are more akin to the lower level models. So in other words the 1712 was a "stripped down" 1912/2112 whereas the 1713 is a "souped up" 1613 and the X1000 is a "souped up" version of the E300.

So the 1712 should offer essentially identical sound quality as the 2113 / X2000 -- same amp power and same MultEQ XT correction -- but just with fewer features. You of course lose the networking stuff, and also video conversion of analog inputs to HDMI output. The 1712 also doesn't have a video scaler, so it's basically best used as an HDMI video switching / passthrough unit. The 2113 / X2000 have more flexibility for video scaling and conversion if you are running SD and/or legacy analog sources. And the newer models also have a nicer GUI that can overlay on 3D video.

The 1712 also lacks the front panel USB and HDMI ports that the 2113 / X2000 have, and it doesn't have the Zone 2 pre-outs of those models if you want to add a 2nd zone while maintaining a full 7ch setup in main zone. The X2000 also brings some enhanced multizone features with digital audio support and variable volume output for the pre-outs.

And, finally, a new 2113 / X2000 will of course have full 3-year warranty vs. the 1-year refurb warranty on a 1712.

So it boils down to whether you want to pay extra for the additional networking and video features, enhanced Zone 2 functionality, and the full 3-year warranty.

So after mulling it over, here is where I am leaning. Right now I am only planning on 5.1, I don't have the space for 7.1 being in an apartment, and will likely be in one for the near future. I don't have any legacy devices, my sources are a Samsung BD-E5900 Blu Ray Player and Roku 3, which both connect via HDMI. I have my airport express connected via optical and that is it, so connections should be fine. Given that I don't need video upscaling or legacy connections, is the X1000 the best choice for me? I can grab one at Best Buy, get the 3 year warranty, and have all the newest features.
post #8330 of 10468
I don't know if this will absolutely solve your problem, but you may want to re-run Audyssey and make sure that your room is very quite and also that you use a tripod for the mic. When I first ran Audyssey, I didn't use a tripod. The subsequent times, I have used it. I noticed a significant change in the volume of the speakers at a given volume setting between the first calibration without the tripod and the second one with the tripod.
post #8331 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Red Sox View Post

Question: I have the Denon AVR-1613 along with Harman Kardon HKTS 16 5.1-Channel Speakers, that are powering my Panasonic TC-P65GT50. I have everything plugged into the receiver, and have the HDMI running to the ARC slot on the tv (HDMI 2). The problem I'm having is that I have to crank the volume on the receiver up to around 80 just to have it loud enough for the entire room to hear it. Anything below that is barely above a whisper. Is there some setting that I need to adjust to get the volume on this LOUD, or is it just they way this receiver is? I looked in the tv settings and the tv speakers are disabled and there really wasn't much in there I could mess with. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I had a similar issue before I ran the Audyssey set up, I had to be in the 70's to be in a somewhat comfort zone for TV sound. Once I rant the Audyssey set up, using a tri-pod for the mic, changing the height of the tri-pod between the couch sitting area to floor space in front, the issue went away, now I can be in the 40-50 volume range to be satisfied.

Also, check your cable box settings, I noticed mine had 3 modes for sound, Wide, Narrow and Normal, I think it's the Narrow setup which gave me the best result but that mode may be for straight to TV w/o an AVR though, so I could be wrong.
post #8332 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

So after mulling it over, here is where I am leaning. Right now I am only planning on 5.1, I don't have the space for 7.1 being in an apartment, and will likely be in one for the near future. I don't have any legacy devices, my sources are a Samsung BD-E5900 Blu Ray Player and Roku 3, which both connect via HDMI. I have my airport express connected via optical and that is it, so connections should be fine. Given that I don't need video upscaling or legacy connections, is the X1000 the best choice for me? I can grab one at Best Buy, get the 3 year warranty, and have all the newest features.

Sounds like a winner! smile.gif
post #8333 of 10468
So I went to best buy, and they had a new 1713 for 300 bucks! Better than any online price and it was the last in stock so I got it, for $150 less than the x-1000 it's virtually the same receiver.
post #8334 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post

So I went to best buy, and they had a new 1713 for 300 bucks! Better than any online price and it was the last in stock so I got it, for $150 less than the x-1000 it's virtually the same receiver.
I saw this in my best buy as well but without remote and mic. How are you going to get Mic to run Audyssey setup?
post #8335 of 10468
Hi since i can't find an answer, i'll ask it here since you've been very helpfull before.
I'm looking to buy a wireless speaker to connect to my denon and currently there is a good deal in belgium on the klipsch g-17.
I copied this from the manual

The Klipsch G-17 Air is designed to play your music:
a. WirelesslyfromanydeviceequippedwithApple®AirPlay®technology,
using your existing Wi-Fi® network.

But here is my question. Do i need itunes to run or not using airplay?
Meaning can the denon 2113 stream any music to the device without using an apple product?

Btw i purchased a medi8ter 3d and i have it hooked upon my tv and it goes to my denon using the hdmi arc. I couldn't get it to play directly connected from the denon but i found a solution using the tip i got from here when i did the same using an usb powered hard drive. So if anyone else has trouble with it that should do the trick.
post #8336 of 10468
Thread Starter 
That Klipsch, like the receiver, is an Airplay "speaker". It just just receives the signal and plays it, but neither device can act as the Airplay source. So, yes, you need to stream from somewhere else (iTunes on a PC or iDevice). The Denon cannot beam its own internally generated audio (e.g. a Spotify stream or a regular audio input from some other device) out as a wireless AirPlay stream.
post #8337 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMGala View Post

I don't know if this will absolutely solve your problem, but you may want to re-run Audyssey and make sure that your room is very quite and also that you use a tripod for the mic. When I first ran Audyssey, I didn't use a tripod. The subsequent times, I have used it. I noticed a significant change in the volume of the speakers at a given volume setting between the first calibration without the tripod and the second one with the tripod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElectroMike View Post

I had a similar issue before I ran the Audyssey set up, I had to be in the 70's to be in a somewhat comfort zone for TV sound. Once I rant the Audyssey set up, using a tri-pod for the mic, changing the height of the tri-pod between the couch sitting area to floor space in front, the issue went away, now I can be in the 40-50 volume range to be satisfied.

Also, check your cable box settings, I noticed mine had 3 modes for sound, Wide, Narrow and Normal, I think it's the Narrow setup which gave me the best result but that mode may be for straight to TV w/o an AVR though, so I could be wrong.


Thanks guys, I'll re-run the Audyssey set up and will let you know if that solves the problem.
post #8338 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

I saw this in my best buy as well but without remote and mic. How are you going to get Mic to run Audyssey setup?

The Audyssey mic (ACM-1HB) is available directly from Denon or one of their authorized parts distributors or even eBay for about $25.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audyssey-Auto-Calibration-Microphone-ACM1HB-set-up-for-Denon-Marantz-Receiver/251293679856?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D15849%26meid%3D8553650164504916517%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D7578%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D261227227867%26

A Harmony remote (many different models from $50-$150+) can easily replace the Denon remote as you can download the Denon commands to the Harmony remote via your PC. Additionally, the Harmony can be used to control multiple devices rather than just the Denon AVR which is what the Denon remote is limited to controlling.

So in the end, add another $100 to the cost and still a great price.
post #8339 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by braves1fan77 View Post

Why is it not possible to control the zone 2 volume from the Denon 2313CI receiver? The remote must be used. It would be helpful when you select a source to then be able to raise and lower the volume. Or push a button to toggle between main and zone 2 for the volume knob.
Quote:
Originally Posted by braves1fan77 View Post

I have read my manual, "Turn MASTER VOLUME after pressing ZONE2 ON/OFF on the main unit to adjust the sound volume". However that functionality for Zone 2 volume control on the receiver does not work on my unit. Additionally, even if it did work that way I would be limited to only changing the volume when initially starting zone 2. This is a limitation that causes a lot of frustration in my household.

Did you try resetting the microprocessor (p. 156 OM)? Any other XX13 owners experiencing this with Zone 2 operation?
post #8340 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

I saw this in my best buy as well but without remote and mic. How are you going to get Mic to run Audyssey setup?

Its a brand new receiver so it comes with everything.
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