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The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 290

post #8671 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If by "holding" you mean that you physically held the mic in your hand then all bets are off. As indicated in your 2113CI Owner's manual as well as listed in the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig, for the best calibration you should be using either a camera tripod or better yet a mic boom stand as well as stepping out of the surround field each time and lastly using all 8 mic positions. Please refer to the Guide linked in my sig for more information.

Also note that the whole point of Audyssey Dyn EQ is to boost the surrounds/bass when the volume level is < 0db/80 so if you find it is too much boost, set the Reference Level Offset (p. 104 OM) to 10db.

yeah i held it, i'll try it again using the tripod but based on someone elses post later i'm not holding my breath that this makes a difference, and my audyssey setup only asked for 6 positions on the on screen instructions while it was going on
post #8672 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by hikouka View Post

yeah i held it, i'll try it again using the tripod but based on someone elses post later i'm not holding my breath that this makes a difference, and my audyssey setup only asked for 6 positions on the on screen instructions while it was going on

The 6 position issue was addressed in post number 4 of this thread so there is some guidance there.
post #8673 of 10468
^^
The following section is taken from my FAQ and Troubleshooting Guide linked in my sig ....

b. Audyssey Setup: The Setup Wizard and Speakers - Audyssey Setup can be run at any time. Just because you only have the front main speakers or even just a set of stereo speakers is no reason not to run Audyssey Setup. If you add more speakers, simply run it again. You'll also want to rerun it if you move the speakers or any furniture in the room. Regardless of how many actual seats are in your listening room and where they are physically located, ideally you will want to run all 6 (MultEQ) or 8 (MultEQ XT/XT32) positions using a camera tripod or (boom mic stand + mic adapter) within no more than a 2'-3' radius around the #1 mic position (ie. main listening position (MLP)) in order to provide the most data points for the Audyssey filters. Note that beginning with the XX13 models, although Audyssey MultEQ XT/XT32 can measure up to 8 mic positions, Denon has reduced this number to only 6 mic positions when running the Setup Wizard to shorten the setup time. In order to get all 8 mic positions (recommended), you will have to run Audyssey from the Speakers - Audyssey Setup menu. One of the reasons you likely bought a Denon AVR was for Audyssey, so take advantage of its capability by providing it with as much data as possible. The whole process shouldn't take more than 20 minutes, although ensure it is completely quiet in the room (ie. no pets or kids running around, no A/C noises, no PJ noise). Also, the test tones can be quite loud (75db), so best not to do this at night (especially if living in an apartment).
post #8674 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawtyger View Post

So, my fault for looking at this thread before going to bed - had Denon receivers on my mind all night smile.gif. To get a difference of $200 the X4000 would need to get down to $999. I took a look at the website for the store names listed and did some other general searches and the lowest I've seen the X4000 was $1,2999 (if the site even has it) and for the 3313 it was $799, again if it was even listed.

I've got the phone numbers for the places listed and will try to call to see what prices I get quoted. I'm happy with my price of $799 for the 3313 but if the suggestion is that the other shops go much lower over the phone and sell a X4000 for $999 (the $200 difference possibly suggested) or sell the 3313 for $100 to $200 less than the $799 I paid Crutchfield, than getting a X4000 for $999 or a 3313 for $699 is a decision I will have to reconsider. Everyone is sort of tip-toeing around what the price really is or could be for these two units so if you have a specific knowledge of the price being in this range than PM me. Like I said, building a new house is expensive so an extra hundred here and there just adds up to other toys for the house.

And yes, upon reconsideration of the X4000 if I could get it for only $200 more than the $799 I paid for the 3313 (as was suggested) then I may be inclined to do so mostly to have the newest model rather than last years and for the 4th difference listed earlier regarding listening and watching two different HDMIs in the main room.

Denon resellers are required to post MSRP on their websites. As has already been mentioned, some of them will discount off MSRP; however, you must pick up the phone and "call" them to get their best price. Per AVSForum policy, prices other than MSRP are not supposed to be posted in these general threads, rather only in the Special Deals threads. And these discount prices may change which is why you must "call" them to get their current pricing.
post #8675 of 10468
My 3313 just alerted me to a firmware update last night. Does anyone have a link to the changelog?
post #8676 of 10468
Quote:
As far as "calling" some of the vendors mentioned goes, for the average person one doesn't even know who to call. I wouldn't have even thought of calling SVS subs and hadn't even heard of the other vendors (AVScience Sales, Electronics Expo, Paul's TV, Wide World Stereo) jd mention. If you want to hit the masses put your price out there - you know the vast majority of Joe public isn't even going to forums for advice let alone calling places they have never heard of to see if the price on their website can be negotiated over the phone.

Anyone that advertises below the manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price ( M.A.P. ) either isn't an authorized dealer, or won't be for long. Do you just pay MSRP for a new car or an airplane ticket? If so, carry on. If not, please give me a call. Thank you. smile.gif
post #8677 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

Anyone that advertises below the manufacturer's Minimum Advertised Price ( M.A.P. ) either isn't an authorized dealer, or won't be for long. Do you just pay MSRP for a new car or an airplane ticket? If so, carry on. If not, please give me a call. Thank you. smile.gif

I've made some calls to the stores mention and haven't sniffed a Denon X4000 for $200 more than I spent on the $799 3313. But, I admit one call I did not make was to AV Science. The reason? When I looked up each and every site suggested AV Science only show 3 receivers under Denon receiver none of which were the X4000 or the 3313 - http://shop.avscience.com/Receivers_c_7.html

But I will certainly be calling now.

UPDATE - OK, advice taken. Calling is a good idea but I have to say I would never have called an online store that didn't even show it carried the item - you might want to at least list the item with no price or something for those "not in the know"

Very pleasant conversation with someone there and now I have some thinking to do.
Edited by lawtyger - 7/21/13 at 11:56am
post #8678 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Audyssey XT32
Audyssey SubEQ (2 subs)
Ability to expand to 9.2 with External Amp
Listen to 1 HDMI source & watch another

Alright, back to these differences between the 3313 and the X4000. We're there any others? Can I give you my thoughts or questions on each of these and perhaps some of my confusion can be cleared up:

Audyssey XT32
- why is this better than regular Audyssey XT and is it something a general user like myself will even notice?

Audyssey SubEQ (2 subs)
- I assume this only helps if I have two subs. I have an SVS 25-31 PC Plus but honestly never plan to get a second sub.

Ability to expand to 9.2 with External Amp
- I am planning on just running a 5.1 system and expect to stay at 5.1. The system is in my family room so perhaps if I had a dedicated theater room in the new house I would one day expand but that not in the plans.

Listen to 1 HDMI source & watch another
- ok, this one may have some value. I assume this means that I can watch TV via HDMI in the main room while listening to music in the main room? Can't the 3313 do this?

In any event, I want to thank several of you above for educating me on "calling." I appreciate learning. While the price of the 3313 didn't change enough to make a difference, the price of the X4000 did pleasantly surprise me.

Now I must weigh if the X4000 is worth the extra it would cost over the 3313 and if so, figure out how to tell my wife we are going to spend a little more if its worth it. Again, are there any other options not listed above that the X4000 has or any other reasons to get it over a 3313 besides getting this years unit which carries some weight in and of itself.

Edit - I guess another difference the x4000 has Audyssey LFC and "horizontal layout - 12 o'clock wire input"

What is Audyssey LFC add and is the horizontal layout simply the same binding posts layer out horizontally? Looks nice in the X4000 pic of the rear.

Also, regarding the following statement - the output for multi-room video in a second room doesn't include audio? What would this be used for in a second room?

"The AVR-X4000 receiver features 3 HDMI outputs and 7 HDMI inputs, including one on the front panel that allows for easy connection of a camcorder or game console. There are two outputs for main room video (such as a projector and a flat screen TV), and one output for multi-room video in a second room with the same or a different source."
Edited by lawtyger - 7/21/13 at 12:58pm
post #8679 of 10468
I use airplay a lot to play music from my iPhone. I like the screen better when using airplay through my Apple TV, but the sound is so much better if I use the Denon as the Airplay. Anyone else experience this? Have I missed a setting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
post #8680 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawtyger View Post

Alright, back to these differences between the 3313 and the X4000. We're there any others? Can I give you my thoughts or questions on each of these and perhaps some of my confusion can be cleared up:

Audyssey XT32
- why is this better than regular Audyssey XT and is it something a general user like myself will even notice?

You should list your speakers and zone requirements you might be thinking off.

As far as Audyssey XT32 it will do 1 sub with its greater calibrating skills as well as 2. Here is a primitive analogy. Lets say 90% of clarity comes from speakers with an Audyssey set up. What Audyssey does with the greater information it receives from X32 is that it will dial in with its information and do calculations a whole lot better than just Audyssey XT version giving the listener a smoother more Harmonic experience. The XT 32 does it work on all speakers but especially on the Sub(s) where it is needed the most.
Edited by spager - 7/21/13 at 1:18pm
post #8681 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

You should list your speakers and zone requirements you might be thinking off.

Here is what I have:

Boston Acoustic VR-M60's (Fronts)
Boston Acoustic VR-MC (Center)
Boston Acoustic VR-MX's. (Rears)
SVS 25-31 PC Plus Subwoofer.
post #8682 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

My 3313 just alerted me to a firmware update last night. Does anyone have a link to the changelog?

See post #6 of this thread for firmware change log information.
post #8683 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawtyger View Post

Here is what I have:

Boston Acoustic VR-M60's (Fronts)
Boston Acoustic VR-MC (Center)
Boston Acoustic VR-MX's. (Rears)
SVS 25-31 PC Plus Subwoofer.

Either the 3313 or the X4000 will power these speakers nicely. You will have to decide on whether the features the X4000 has plus the added fidelity with the XT32 is worth the extra money to you. If it was me I would probably opt for the newer model if I could swing it but everybody's budget and priorities are different. I have not followed the X4000 closely so I will let others explain the other features.
Edited by spager - 7/21/13 at 4:44pm
post #8684 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by spager View Post

Either the 3313 or the X4000 will power these speakers nicely. You will have to decide on whether the features the X4000 has plus the added fidelity with the XT32 is worth the extra money to you. If it was me I would probably opt for the newer model if I could swing it but everybody's budget and priorities are different. I have not followed the X4000 closely so I will others explain the other features.

Glad to hear either receiver will work well with my speakers.

What a whirl wind today. I learned a lot and to "call" about pricing. Got a hold of two of the six sellers today and based on the numbers I cancelled my 3313 order through Crutchfield because I think the extra money is/may be worth getting the X4000. The two I spoke to AV Science and Paul's TV were both very nice).

I jumped at getting the 3313 because I believed the price couldn't be beat and I didn't want to miss out. But in reality, they are only pouring our new home's slab tomorrow morning so we are looking at a close in late November. The difference in price for the X4000 is worth it to me and a reading of the official thread pointed out some features (albeit simple ones sometimes like AM returns - there is a Buccaneers sports channel I occasionally listen to) that were not listed earlier in the thread.

I'm waiting to hear back on one price and will contact the other dealers who were closed today (Sunday) tomorrow. If the deal is right, I'll still pull the trigger on the X4000 now even though it won't be used until we get to the new house. Otherwise, I'll likely wait a bit till we are closer to moving in. But, extra features and new year's model seem worth the extra $$$ to me now so thank you to those who nudged me to explore an option I had not thought of.
post #8685 of 10468
I'd WAIT; the price will likely go down & any kinks will be worked out.
post #8686 of 10468
Hey, my 1713 is exhibiting some weird flashing/flickering of output. Every couple of minutes the output flashes black and then back to normal. It doesn't happen with the cable box but does happen with my Samsung blu ray player, ps3 and 360. I have them all hooked up by hdmi and then the avr outputs to a panasonic p65s64 by hdmi. I am running all the latest firmware. Does anyone have a solution or is it best to call denon and get a replacement unit hopefully? I have tried turning on the Tv, avr and p3/Xbox in that order but it doesn't help. I have also tried different hdmi cables and doing a weird hdcp restart. Nothing helped. Very frustrating problem. I should also mention it doesn't matter which hdmi input I use.
post #8687 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

I'd WAIT; the price will likely go down & any kinks will be worked out.

I haven't heard of any kinks. These new E/X series models seem to be rock solid.
post #8688 of 10468
Started to say, if any.
post #8689 of 10468
Plus, warranty won't start until then.
post #8690 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSly View Post

Hi fellow Denoners!

I've had a 2313 for a few months and ever since I set it up there has been a video/audio issue. While watching something the screen will go black and the audio will cut out for around 3secs, then it will come back on again and continue working. This will happen multiple times in short succession.

I've noticed it happens after an hour or so of watching. It also occurs on multiple HDMI inputs and I only use HDMI as output. I've noticed it on the projector, but haven't had a chance to test it on the 2nd output, which is a TV.

I store the amp in a floating cabinet that is mounted around 12cm off the wall, so has an open back, but has a door on the front left slightly open for air flow.

I'm thinking it might be heat related as in the past when it's happened I've opened the cabinet door and vented it a little, and it's stopped. There is around 4-6cm on sides and on top in the cavity it sits and the heat/top is no hotter than I would expect it to be.

I've reviewed the troubleshooting in this thread, and searched online, and see no mention of this kind of problem, so I was wondering if others have encountered it, and have any suggestions as I was thinking of calling Denon to see if they would be able to solve it under warranty.

Thanks,

Well I've been exploring this problem more and have an update. I tried cooling the AMP down and keeping the air flow more universal, but have since discovered it has nothing to do with heat. Sometimes I'll turn it on and within 10 mins it will go black, other times it will take an hour +. I've now noticed everytime when it goes black for 2-3secs, it will come back on and then do the same within a minute or so. Then it works fine again.

I've since contacted Denon support and they suggested I remove one of the dual output hdmi's to see if it happens with 1 output. Well I've ran it with 1 output for 3-4 days and it didn't happen once. As soon as I put the 2nd output back in, it did it within an hour or so.
It's still under warranty, so I'll be taking it in for a look. I believe he mentioned it would be the HDMI board that would need replacing. Will advise once I've got the repair sorted.
post #8691 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by hapazoid View Post

Hey, my 1713 is exhibiting some weird flashing/flickering of output. Every couple of minutes the output flashes black and then back to normal. It doesn't happen with the cable box but does happen with my Samsung blu ray player, ps3 and 360. I have them all hooked up by hdmi and then the avr outputs to a panasonic p65s64 by hdmi. I am running all the latest firmware. Does anyone have a solution or is it best to call denon and get a replacement unit hopefully? I have tried turning on the Tv, avr and p3/Xbox in that order but it doesn't help. I have also tried different hdmi cables and doing a weird hdcp restart. Nothing helped. Very frustrating problem. I should also mention it doesn't matter which hdmi input I use.

My post above may interest you.
post #8692 of 10468
So, maybe this is a dumb question, but I have a new (open box) 2113ci with a problem: It doesn't recognize any IR remote signals - not from the included remote, and not from a Harmony.

So, my question is, is there a way to disable the IR receiver on the unit (through "software") that I'm not finding in the owners manual, or is it possible that the unit's IR receiver is simply defective?

I just figured I'd ask before taking it back to the store tomorrow.
post #8693 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

My 3313 just alerted me to a firmware update last night. Does anyone have a link to the changelog?


You'll find all update info here at Denon's: http://firmware.denon.eu/download.php?id=155343

To save you all from having to grab your device's serial number here it is....

changelog of AVR3313
19.07.2013
Firmware version: 1490-1179-0000-7130-5987
Swedish translation. Found a translation error.

Airplay on AVR 3313 does not play the sound synchronously with sound on
the PC and other Airplay devices, e.g. B&W A5, A7, Air.

View photos via USB interface, the 4:3 image is stretched in width severely.

Playback multiple artist radio failed.

Preset Names of FM-Tuner can't be changed via webinterface in the range
from preset number 17 to 24.
After update and a Pro Calibration with the Audyssey Kit, cannot access to
web page settings any more.

Problem with Russian Internet Radio station.

Cannot play any BBC station on the Internet Radio.
SPOTIFY-Credentials does not remain stored when changed source or unit
powered off/on.
"
When the customer starts Remote App, the display of Remote App might
become abnormal.
The PlayerView button in the NetUSB browse screen by Remote App was
added. The SleepTimer setting by Remote App was added.
After the firmware is updated, the device is not found via the ios
application.


12.03.2013
Firmware version: 1490-1179-0000-4432-1977
The product corresponded to Gapless Playback from Mobile App.
When the HDMI output is a dual output and the device connected with HDMI OUT1 is made a standby, the image of HDMI OUT2 is not output.
When the customer connects DLXA75R (VICTOR) and 65ZT5 (Panasonic) with the unit via HDMI, the unit is freezed by a dual output.
The Picture View setting cannot be stored.
AirPlay cannot be executed while executing SlideShow.
AirPlay cannot be executed from Function other than Network.
When Main Zone is turned on GUI is not displayed, if Zone2 is on.

15.11.2012
Firmware version:1490-1139-0000-0220-3867
Various failures: Sample rate is not indicated at FLAC, WAV, ALAC. If ALAC is played back, AAC is displayed. No album art displayed for ALAC files.

When the customer connects 3D Player and projector (RICOH PJ-X3340) to the unit via HDMI, there is a possibility that 3D image is not output even if the disk of 3D is played.
The black picture noise in video output (NTSC) of Network and the iPod/USB function has been reduced.

14.09.2012
Firmware version:1490-0109-0000-3010-6737
The product corresponded to Spotify. The Spotify was added to the Network function. The Spotify corresponded to the contents operation with Web Page.
When Spotify/Pandra/SiriusXM was played, the "Save to Favorite" function of "Option Menu" was invalidated (Favorite cannot register).
When external instrument (Apps, C4 Controller) is used for a long time, there is a possibility not to be able to control from the external instrument.
The unit is no picture and sound via HDMI, and the Firm version of GUI becomes FFFFFFFF.
The product corresponded to High Quality Audio/Gapless Playback/ALAC (Apple Lossless Audio Codec)

28.06.2012
Firmware version:1490-0138-0000-8520-4466
Correspondence to Mobile Application.

When the user changes the setting of "MENU - Video - Audio HDMI Out" from TV to AMP, and the setting is fixed with the Menu button, there is a possibility of hearing the noise from particular TV.

When the user quickly operates Off and On of MainZone at ZoneOn, there is a possibility that the screen is not displayed.






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post #8694 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcrime66 View Post

You'll find all update info here at Denon's: http://firmware.denon.eu/download.php?id=155343

To save you all from having to grab your device's serial number here it is....

Note this site is only accessible with European model serial numbers.
post #8695 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSly View Post

My post above may interest you.

Thanks for the insight. I have tried everything. Mine is well ventilated as well. I think I am going to call them and see if I can get it repaired or replaced.
post #8696 of 10468
I have the AVR-3313ci. I was hoping to use ZONE 2 to push the audio from DirectTV (delivered via HDMI) out to my back patio, but it appears ZONE 2/3 only sends analog audio (which means any source "other" than an HDMI input will pass through. Does anyone have a solution for this (other than a speaker selector coming off the main output?)... I was hoping to actually have the DENON deliver its audio to all the rooms and i do like the idea at times, of having one source playing in one room, and another in the other.
post #8697 of 10468
Quote:
Originally Posted by gweempose View Post

My 3313 just alerted me to a firmware update last night. Does anyone have a link to the changelog?

This fixed the extremely sluggish web control on my 3313 from the May 2013 firmware update. I don't know if anyone else experienced that issue from the May update, but after that update what used to happen instantly via the web browser control took 10-20 seconds. The current update fixed it.
post #8698 of 10468
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwilde View Post

I have the AVR-3313ci. I was hoping to use ZONE 2 to push the audio from DirectTV (delivered via HDMI) out to my back patio, but it appears ZONE 2/3 only sends analog audio (which means any source "other" than an HDMI input will pass through. Does anyone have a solution for this (other than a speaker selector coming off the main output?)... I was hoping to actually have the DENON deliver its audio to all the rooms and i do like the idea at times, of having one source playing in one room, and another in the other.

You just need to double connect your with analog RCA cables along with the HDMI cable. Then there will be a "legal" signal for zone output. For more info you can read here: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=160

As an FYI if you are still within your return period, the replacement for the 3313 (the X4000) can send digital audio to other zones. If that's a big feature need for you it would be worth swapping up, the new X series has made several cool advances in zone function, plus the X4000 has the improved Audyssey XT32 calibration.
post #8699 of 10468
I am in need of some assistance/suggestions/advice/slap on the head:

This is for my Bedroom Home Theater (my only home theater).

First - I'm not sure if this should go in this thread of the Audyssey thread.

Component Information:

AVR 1713 (replaced an Onkyo SR606)
Klipsch SS.5 Surround Speakers - Connected via a Rocketfish Wireless Surround Speaker Kit
Klipsch Gallery G42 LCR Soundbar
Klipsch KSW12 Subwoofer - Connected via a Rocketfish Wireless Sub Kit

Two issues - 1. Distance Settings. 2. Surround Volume

Issue #1 - I've read that distance settings for the subwoofer during Audyssey may be very different than actual. I've also read that the Wireless adapters can work with Audyssey but they will introduce lag so the distances will appear larger in the setup than in actuality. No worries theres.

The issue is that the distance settings are "pegged" to the maximum allowable difference between the Front / Rear/ Subs (20 ft). This also occurred with the Onkyo (although the limits of the Onkyo were much smaller - 10ft).

Settings:
L/C/R - 11 ft
Surrounds - 30 ft (L surround is closer to 5 ft, R surround is 8 ft)
Sub - 30 ft ( ~ 13 feet in reality)

Since the settings are pegged to the max they can go I'm willing to bet that the Denon is not compensating for the entire amount of delay that is being introduced by the wireless adapters.

I did review the Setup Guide - and specifically the Word Document that talks about optimizing surround sound distance. However, I do not have the 5.1 Toolkit that has the test pattern to perform the test.

Has anyone used wireless setups for their rears and/or subs? Any advice? I *could* hard wire the surrounds but would rather not.

Issue # 2 - Rear surrounds are overpoweringly loud after Audyssey setup. This isn't a Denon specific issue (I ran into it with the Onkyo as well). Here's a photo of the back wall (sorry for the poor quality. It was a quick shot on the way out the door. And yes, that is a stick holding up our lights. smile.gif):



As you can see. Our "Listening position" is against the same wall as the surrounds. After running Audyssey movies are overpowered by the rear speakers. Unfortunately I'm limited in placement options (I can go higher on the wall - but can't place them on the side walls due to a giant rock wall / fireplace on the left.)

I know I could just "turn the surround levels down" but I'd like to be a little more scientific than that. I'm looking for suggestions on mic placement (I currently use my Center Listening position 2 ft away from the back wall for setup purposes) or other options that I can try. I also wonder if the distance settings are contributing to this as well. Should I run test tones (either built-in or through one of my calibration discs) w/ my SPL meter to see if there are any adjustments that should be made?

I apologize for the size of this post. I very much appreciate anyone who actually takes the time to read it. smile.gif

Thanks!
Edited by Nutdotnet - 7/22/13 at 12:06pm
post #8700 of 10468
Are you laying down or sitting up in the bed when you are listening to the audio? With the wall only 2' away, you'll want to have the mic no closer than 2' to the back wall with the mic positions mostly 2'-3' to the sides and forward of that #1 mic position. The delay is what it is with your existing setup if you don't want to hard wire the surrounds. Lower the surround volume levels and/or set the Reference Level Offset to 10db or 15db for all sources.
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