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NTSC CRT-HD television, moving to Europe  

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
I know that by the title of my post, most people are already thinking ditch it, but please hear me out, I need expert advice...

I have a Samsung TXT3092WHX CRT HDTV that my wife and I absolutely love. We are moving to France this summer. We would love to be able to take it with us even though it's NTSC. For professional reasons as well related to my work, I would prefer to not lose it. Keep in mind... we don't really watch TV. All we really watch is downloaded media and discs. So, yes, I am aware that our cable box there won't communicate with the TV inputs.

Questions:
- First and foremost: What will be the effect of running the TV on a transformer or step-down converter to comply with the 220V and 50Hz in France? Heating up? Not possible with a television for extended viewing? Other concerns?
- If a step-down converter CAN be used safely, what specs do I need to look out for in buying one?
- Can't I get an HD NTSC/PAL video converter for a cable box to work on my TV?

Thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this. I'm not super well versed in this area so any advice would be most appreciated. Help me save our TV!!
post #2 of 30
I _think_ you're OK with a stepdown transformer. I don't have the service manual for this one (I have the same set!), but almost all of these sets convert the incoming AC to about 300 volts DC first before running into the switch mode power supply, so as long as there's 110 volts coming into the set, I don't think it matters if it's 50 or 60Hz. You most likely need about a 1000VA stepdown transformer to do this.
post #3 of 30
Thread Starter 
I HAVE the service manual. What can I look up to answer your question for you?
post #4 of 30
Can you scan the power supply section and post it here?
post #5 of 30
Thread Starter 
Weird... I just went through every page in all the documentation and not a single mention of power specs.
Getting behind the TV is tough. I guess I'll try.
post #6 of 30
Thread Starter 
Ok, I looked on the back, it says 120V and 60 Hz and also 180W.
What do you suggest?
post #7 of 30
I didn't know american TV's won't accept PAL? Curt is this a tuner thing? I just assumed they were like CRT projectors where you can feed it any signal you want and it just synch's to it?
post #8 of 30
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have any thoughts about this? It seems exactly what I'd need to connect the cable box to my NTSC TV if I were to ever want to.
post #9 of 30
Wouldn't the moome card be better for that money?
post #10 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neonsky View Post

Wouldn't the moome card be better for that money?

Sorry, no idea what a moome card is. Looked it up though. Why would you say it's better?
post #11 of 30
As you've been told on other forums, getting all your US electronics to work in Europe is not going to be easy. You need both power line conversion and video signal conversion. While 1080p60 high definition signals are the same in both environments, standard definition signals are quite different. France uses SECAM, not PAL. A high-def hdmi cable box might work, but fixing any glitches (and there always are glitches) will be impossible. The cable tv tech will take one look at your TV and throw up his hands.

As nice as your TV is, I don't think all the grief it'll cause will be worth it. Be prepared to buy consumer electronics designed for use in France when you get there.
post #12 of 30
Thread Starter 
My thinking was simply that since I don't watch television, that taking my TV and all my devices would be easier. The BluRay and DVD players I have are multi-region and I have way too many discs to simply not be able to use them anymore.
What other solution would I have for all my DVDs? Other than watching them on my computer?
post #13 of 30
My impression is that multi-region players and multi-standard TVs are much more common in Europe than in the US. If your players all can upscan to 1080p60, they should work with European HD TV sets so far as the HDMI signal is concerned, at least. So far as power is concerned, though, they might not, especially if they're modified US players with inadequate power supplies.

I'm not saying not to try it, just to be aware of the pitfalls and be emotionally prepared to get local equipment. You'll still be able to play your discs if you get multiregion players.

And, hey, you might learn to enjoy French TV!
post #14 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

And, hey, you might learn to enjoy French TV!

Well that's true. It's american tv that I find hideous which is why I stopped watching a few years ago. It's not to avoid FRench TV, you understand, it's more to prioritize my huge dvd collection. But, you're saying I should be able to get a DVD player that will play those anyway. I hear you.
post #15 of 30
When we moved to Hong Kong in 1979, we took our TV and VHS player. (We bought a local TV for local television.) We had a few movies, received some football tapes, and had some very rudimentary games that we played on our US TV.
post #16 of 30
Panasonic Plasma's are even known for their 50Hz issue, not showing with 60 Hz sources;-).

All modern TVs overhere accept all formats. Store your CRT and just buy a flat panel here. Open box units were advertized here at 399,- euro for the Panasonic 42" G20 Plasma (2010 non 3D). For 500-600 one could have gotte a nice 42-46 Panasonic 2011 model. 46/50" 2D and 3D units were around 700 and up, Panasonic being the premium brand. Sales are quieting down, but there's always LG 50" entry level units can be had for 500+ euro and 60" for 1000-1100 euro for entry-level series like the pz250. This year we are finally getting a non-premium version of the Panasonic 65", like in the US. The ST50 series of wich the smaller ones are reviewed as almost as good as the V50 series, and better than the V30 of last year, this is a good thing.

Suggesting Plasma not LED lit LCD as you are a CRT-lover.


DVD players all come from Asia, so they play anything, even region free can be had. Or just get a Blu-ray player to get HDMI output.

Actually I would just copy my favourite DVDs to an harddrive (actualy two), and put the dvds in storage or at home if you're not selling an house you own.
post #17 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Suggesting Plasma not LED lit LCD as you are a CRT-lover.

I agree, I would only watch my movies on a Plasma if I had to get a flat panel. I've seen the most expensive LED screens and I think the contrast ratio, black levels and wash-out on angles is nowhere near good enough. I've been over this with other people (sometimes in arguments) and yes I really CAN tell that much of a difference. I'm an editor so it matters to me. I've just often found it funny how much people INSIST that I like LCD flat panels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

DVD players all come from Asia, so they play anything, even region free can be had. Or just get a Blu-ray player to get HDMI output.

Ok, good to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Actually I would just copy my favourite DVDs to an harddrive (actualy two), and put the dvds in storage or at home if you're not selling an house you own.

This is a permanent move for the foreseeable future. Everything is coming with us. And when I say everything, we live in a small 1 bedroom apartment in New York. There isn't a houseful of stuff to pack. Our DVDs, records, and CDs are coming with us. As they have throughout all our previous moves. My movies wouldn't fit on 2 harddrives even if it was practical to sit and rip them all. Even then, they'd have to be compressed which I would never do to a DVD or a CD. I know, you're thinking OCD, but I like my disc media.

Thanks for the great advice!
post #18 of 30
Having physical media on shelves around the room spells "home" to me, although in my case that includes lots of books, too. Bits on a disk are just too ephemeral.

Have fun in your new country!
post #19 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Having physical media on shelves around the room spells "home" to me, although in my case that includes lots of books, too. Bits on a disk are just too ephemeral.
Have fun in your new country!

I agree. For me it's DVDs, books, CDs, LPs, 78s, and even laserdiscs (Private Lives still doesn't exist on a properly mastered DVD).
Thanks!
post #20 of 30
Yes ripping is not a pleasant exercise. Already suspected you were looking at getting a shipping container. Plenty of folks have been editing on Panasonic Plasma's for years. Uniformity is greater than CRTs, and they are full HD even the entry level series are now offering 1080P motion resolution. You can buy the commercial VX300 series if you are serious or find the consumer units lacking.

Speaking of seeing the most expensive LCD screen, what do you think of the Dolby 42"? I briefly saw it at IBC, to my not too discerning eyes it looked okay (dark room demo), but didn't check the viewing angles. Remarkable difference as they switch from 709 to DCI colourspace. Everything looked darker, but more detailed.
post #21 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

Plenty of folks have been editing on Panasonic Plasma's for years. Uniformity is greater than CRTs, and they are full HD even the entry level series are now offering 1080P motion resolution. You can buy the commercial VX300 series if you are serious or find the consumer units lacking.

We should probably take this into another thread but do you even prefer the Panasonics to Samsungs? I had always heard that the Panasonic flat screens were no good?
post #22 of 30
I live in the UK and once had a US sourced NEC XG-750 CRT that required an external transformer to work on UK mains. As long as you have the correct transformer (buy one locally once you are in France) then you will be fine. The CRT will only see the correct voltage from the transformer so there will be no ill-effect on the CRT - for all intents and purposes, it thinks it is conected to a US mains supply and will work accordingly. As I recall, the transformer got slightly warm but not hot.

If you are only feeding it downloaded material from a PC/Media player or using US sourced BluRay and DVD players, again you will be fine but likely the players will need power transformers (PC's usually have universal power supplys but check first - you can easily buy a universal PSU if needed), again I have used US sourced players over here in the UK with transformers and they work perfectly. Its only a power supply and has no impact on your actual movie/media playback.

Using a transformer is not an issue in any way shape or form, been there done that, enjoyed the movies!

Good Luck and welcome to this side of the pond!

You should be able to watch local satellite/cable programs (and many are in HD) as long as you have the correct inputs on the CRT-HD and I see from the specs (attached below) it has Component and HDMI, it should work just fine with 720p and 1080i input material (HD isn't PAL or NTSC). The Tuner in the telly won't work obviously as its NTSC only I would think but you won't be using it anyway, there are no NTSC signals in France.

Try sending a 720p 50hz signal from your PC into the HDMI socket on the CRT-HD and see if it accepts the signal. Might have to use a cheap VGA to HDMI convertor if your PC/Laptop does not have HDMI output. That will imitate European HD broadcast standards and will tell for sure if the CRT-HD will work with locally bought blueray players, satellite equipment etc.

As has been mentioned, most (probably 99.9%) of the TV displays and Bluray/DVD players in Europe can take a PAL 50 or NTSC 60 signal as well as 50hz or 60hz (and possibly 24hz) HD material and there are various ways to get around region-locked discs but your current equipment should be fine (although I'd be dubious about having a lot of power transformers in my house simply for aesthetic reasons if nothing else, the one I needed for the XG-750 was about the size of a large can of paint!).

There is as big an AV community in Europe as there is in the US, you will have plenty of help if you need it.

I would though question about getting a large CRT-HD across the pond in one piece. It can be done (obviously) but best laid plans and all that.....! I think you would be pleasantly surprised at the capabilities of modern Plasmas (black level aside but even then...!). Personally, I'd dump all my AV kit and buy locally and delight in my new toys! I think you are creating more hassle for yourself but bottom line, your equipment will work, all they need is power transformers. Connecting to a locally bought cable / satellite system should work but try the PC 50hz trick first to be absolutely sure!

I really think you would be better buying new kit once in France but I appreciate thats your choice to make.

Good luck and welcome to this side of the pond!

EDIT: I see you have asked the same question on a number of forums including European ones - plenty of good advice for you to contemplate.

 

Samsung CRT-HD.PDF 207.5810546875k . file
post #23 of 30
Thread Starter 
Paul,
Firstly thank you for the in-depth electrical analysis. It's exactly that side of things I needed to know more about. And yes, people have been very kind on here and other forums helping out, though it's infuriated some people to no end that I asked in other places. Somehow that makes me disingenuous.

I have no problem buying power converters/transformers. And when I built my computer last summer I made sure it had a 110-220, 50/60 PSU. As far as my other equipment goes (warning: I've posted this list on other forums. Trust me, it's easier than sending people to another forum and wondering where they'll reply, not to mention ruder to one forum to send traffic to another)

- I have the 120-60 TV and a 120-60 Multi-region DVD player
- my gaming consoles can be all taken care of with appropriate PSUs (I've checked)
- my amp is 110/220, 50/60. So is my old turntable. My phonograph is the most multi-region, multi-format device on the planet. (and in case you're wondering, yes, it plays both lateral and vertical cut records)
- I have lots of DVDs I simply can't part with. Many are irreplaceable.
I really don't mind buying step-down transformers. I'll be buying 2 others anyway (kitchen, living room).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

Good Luck and welcome to this side of the pond!

Thank you! We're very excited.

1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

You should be able to watch local satellite/cable programs (and many are in HD) as long as you have the correct inputs on the CRT-HD.

I know all about the issues with telly, I've looked into it. However, while my tv DOES have HDMI and Component inputs, the signal from the cable box would still be PAL and not NTSC. So the frequency becomes an issue for watching local television. At least that's what I had assumed. If I get cable on my cable box and output it to the TV via HDMI and Optical audio for example, are you saying I wouldn't need to worry about PAL? I wouldn't use the tuner on the television. Don't cable boxes come built in with their own tuners and DVRs over there? I'm going to go with Orange.

2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

...That will imitate European HD broadcast standards and will tell for sure if the CRT-HD will work with locally bought blueray players, satellite equipment etc.

I tried this with my Canon point and shoot but only with regular RCA cables for video and audio. It didn't work. I got the familiar stretched and colourless image from a PAL signal trying to be seen on an NTSC television. BUT I haven't tried it with an HD signal. I can try that with my DSLR. I'll report back. Either way, I'm planning on picking this device up: http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-Pal-HDM...ter-1080p.html

3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

I'd be dubious about having a lot of power transformers in my house simply for aesthetic reasons if nothing else

It would only be one transformer next to the TV and equipment. (see my list of items above)

4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

There is as big an AV community in Europe as there is in the US, you will have plenty of help if you need it.

This is wonderful to know. Any recommendations of good tech forums in Europe, tech/electronics shops, would be very welcome.

5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

I would though question about getting a large CRT-HD across the pond in one piece....the capabilities of modern Plasmas (black level aside but even then

We're shipping our small one bedroom in a container anyway. One 120lb television won't be dramatically affecting the price anyway. And until you've seen "The Third Man" or "Brief Encounter" on a flat screen, you don't know how awful a crisp black and white image can be made to look by pixels. There are some plasmas that are an exception to this rule as you've suggested. Definitely worth a look if this becomes impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Butler View Post

I really think you would be better buying new kit once in France but I appreciate thats your choice to make.

Thank you, again.

Any thoughts on these things?
post #24 of 30
One minor quibble: don't forget that the French standard-definition analog color video standard is SECAM, not PAL. The resolution is the same as PAL, but the color information is encoded differently.
post #25 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

One minor quibble: don't forget that the French standard-definition analog color video standard is SECAM, not PAL. The resolution is the same as PAL, but the color information is encoded differently.

Understood, and good point! But I haven't had an analogue cable signal in years so I don't expect to use one in Europe either. I'll be getting my television from a digital cable box. But, good point.
post #26 of 30
1. PAL/SECAM is effectively dead. PAL/SECAM are analog broadcasts, analog broadcasting are being discontinued in Europe. France no longer has analog broadcasts. You will only have access to digital broadcasts in which case if your CRT-HD takes a 1080i50 input you won't have to buy a new telly (if you were actually thinking of getting one which looks unlikely.... ).

PAL, NTSC and SECAM simply don't exist in the HD world - if you have a French satellite or cable connection using HDMI to the CRT-HD it will be outputting 1080i at 50fps - your CRT-HD won't take a PAL/SECAM signal but might take 1080i 50 through the HDMI connector. Thus its worth doing the 1080i 50fps test from your PC/Laptop to the CRT-HD.

Yes, there are tuners in the cable/Sat boxes, DVRs etc but thay are are for digital HD signals not NTSC/PAL. They may have a downconverted analog output on the box alongside an HDMI output but thats just a legacy for folks who have not got an HDMI equipped telly but the picture quality will be much reduced as you can imagine. If the Orange cable/Sat box has an HDMI output then it will be outputting 1080i50.

2. Forget RCA, its a 1080i 50 signal through HDMI thats needed and your PC/Laptop can output that. The Altona box will work, it is effectively doing the same as changing your PC output to 1080i 50 (except it changes the opposite way, from 50 to 60).

3. Ok, understood.

4. AVforums.co.uk is the best one in english but if you speak French there are quite a few to choose from.

5. Totally understand.

I think you'll be fine, if the telly doesn't accept 1080i50 then the Atlona box will work very well (does it need a transformer?). Again, try 1080i 50 from your PC/Laptop first, not only will it save you money if it works, but the direct input (as opposed to the processed input from the Altona) will likely be a slight better quality (although I have no direct experience of this).

You are on a great adventure, I do hope you and yours enjoy your new home/country! Have fun trying all the new things you will find in France, its a wonderful place (apart from the snails, for heavens sake don't even think of trying them, its like eating something really nasty....... which it is! Yeeeech.).
post #27 of 30
www.cinetson.org the French Forum, the home of among others of the famed Sony G90 modder (first digital input card) JohnHWman.
post #28 of 30
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244300
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/58...-moving-europe
http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...rope?p=2162633
Oh the thread spam

It is impractical, the cost of shipping a fragile and obsolete and frankly mediocre tv is going to be immense.
post #29 of 30
Sorry if you have the capacity in your shipping container, it will be free, as the container basically comes at a flat fee, loaded or not fully loaded. Storage isn't free either, so if one is really keen on keeping the unit...
post #30 of 30
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by terapin View Post

Oh the thread spam

Wow... the irresponsible use of 1s and 0s by me to ask a question in several places to pool my resources of communities I respect for their knowledge is just appalling, isn't it? I should be ashamed.
I think you need to look up the word 'spam'. I haven't broken a single rule nor have I asked for anything other than "can...it...be...done... and how."

Close this thread, please, mod. I've got the answer I need, there is no further good that can come from this being open, and people clearly don't know how to just answer a question without using a thread to exert their superiority over all other people by giving opinions when opinions weren't asked for.

Thanks.
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