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Best sealed sub < $750

post #1 of 35
5/7/12 at 6:10pm
Thread Starter 
Hi all,
Looking to piece together a system for my open family/dining/kitchen floor plan. TV is on top of fireplace, so far i think i got it narrow down to a paradigm millenia trio soundbar, yamaha a1010 or marantz sr6006 AVR. Now i'm looking for a sub.

1. Your budget: hoping to keep it under $750 shipped and or tax. Im in socal.

2. Size requirements/limits: Trying to keep it clean, i will be placing the sub next to an L-shape sofa, height limits is 18", depth and width can be bigger.

3. Room dimensions: Main listening area is 16'x15'x9' ceiling. Connected dining/kitchen is another 16'x15'x9'. Connected area is not that important as long as i get good sound in the main listening area.

4. Primary uses: A bit of everything, movie/music/tv/game

I typically prefer sealed sub and given space constraints, i don't think i can go ported either...
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post #2 of 35
5/7/12 at 6:24pm
Epik Empire.

A bit over budget but a nice sub in that pricerange.
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post #3 of 35
5/7/12 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archaea View Post

epik empire.

A bit over budget but a nice sub in that pricerange.

+1
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post #4 of 35
5/7/12 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Epik Empire.

A bit over budget but a nice sub in that pricerange.

And it's also quite a bit bigger than the OP was wanting.

Simply Sound Rumba

SVS SB12

Emotiva X-Ref 12

RSL Speedwoofer ( http://rslspeakers.com/RSL_Speedwoofer_10.html )

NHT b-12d

Epik Legend
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post #5 of 35
5/7/12 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Epik Empire.

A bit over budget but a nice sub in that pricerange.

+2

Excellent sub for the price.
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post #6 of 35
5/7/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Epik Empire.

A bit over budget but a nice sub in that pricerange.

It would be the one to get with room filling bass while still being a sealed sub.
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post #7 of 35
5/7/12 at 7:57pm
Epik has my vote, but HSU, SVS, and eD also make great subs.
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post #8 of 35
5/7/12 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

Epik has my vote, but HSU, SVS, and eD also make great subs.

They do but even trying to stay within or close to his budget and be adequate for the total room size kinda pointed to one contender.
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post #9 of 35
5/7/12 at 11:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

And it's also quite a bit bigger than the OP was wanting. Yes, the empire is too big

Simply Sound Rumba
looks a bit industrial if u know what i mean

SVS SB12
this will work

Emotiva X-Ref 12
the reviews stated cutoff is too high, not looking for extremely low base in a sealed sub, but still wanting something above avg

RSL Speedwoofer ( http://rslspeakers.com/RSL_Speedwoofer_10.html )
isn't this a slot ported? Very nice user reviews, but one of the pro review noted port noise below 40hz

NHT b-12d
this look like a good candidate as well, however, i can't find any good review...

Epik Legend
This is also a good candidate, lowest price is always a plus

so we have the SVS SB12, NHT b-12d, and the Epik legend. The legend and SB12 are pretty well represented here on the board, but i can't find any direct comparison...Also, not sure if it matters, since i will have a soundbar for front LCR, the xover will probably be a bit higher than normal, like around 100 or 120 hz.
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post #10 of 35
5/8/12 at 12:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post


so we have the SVS SB12, NHT b-12d, and the Epik legend. The legend and SB12 are pretty well represented here on the board, but i can't find any direct comparison...Also, not sure if it matters, since i will have a soundbar for front LCR, the xover will probably be a bit higher than normal, like around 100 or 120 hz.

Both the Legend and SB12 can be crossed over well over 100 hz.

The Legend should perform better while the SB12 will be smaller and comes in piano black.

I have an Empire integrated with a Yamaha YSP 5100 soundbar in a bedroom system crossed over @ 120 and it is impressive for such a simple set up.
Good luck.
Tim
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post #11 of 35
5/8/12 at 7:28am
Why this penchant for sealed sub?
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post #12 of 35
5/8/12 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chikoo View Post

Why this penchant for sealed sub?

Size and preference. In the price range, i did consider the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and HSU VTF-2 MK4. But both exceeds the 18"H requirement per my room layout in the original post. Also, although this will be my first 'real' home system, but i have had quite a few sub setup in car audio. Yes, you can get good sound from a well design and built ported setup, a similarly well executed sealed setup sounds cleaner and tighter to my ears, although it wouldn't go as low or loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

Both the Legend and SB12 can be crossed over well over 100 hz. The Legend should perform better while the SB12 will be smaller and comes in piano black. I have an Empire integrated with a Yamaha YSP 5100 soundbar in a bedroom system crossed over @ 120 and it is impressive for such a simple set up.
Good luck.
Tim

Thanks Tim, i am leaning towards the legend as well, all else equal, the bigger enclosure should allow the sub to go a lil lower..Just trying to see what else is out there
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post #13 of 35
5/8/12 at 9:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

so we have the SVS SB12, NHT b-12d, and the Epik legend. The legend and SB12 are pretty well represented here on the board, but i can't find any direct comparison...Also, not sure if it matters, since i will have a soundbar for front LCR, the xover will probably be a bit higher than normal, like around 100 or 120 hz.


RSL Speedwoofer ( http://rslspeakers.com/RSL_Speedwoofer_10.html )
isn't this a slot ported? Very nice user reviews, but one of the pro review noted port noise below 40hz

Only thought I'd mention it because it seems to excel with music. The port noise mentioned was only noticeable during the sine wave testing. Nowhere in any of the reviews did anyone ever make mention of it.

Anyway good luck with your search.
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post #14 of 35
5/8/12 at 11:26am
This meets your size requirements and gets great reviews but higher than your budget. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15.html
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post #15 of 35
5/8/12 at 12:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

This meets your size requirements and gets great reviews but higher than your budget. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15.html

Hehe, only ~ $400 more right? What the heck! All kidding aside, i think that sub is probably overkill for a family rm setup especially with my LCR passive soundbar. We just moved into a new home, so spending all kinds of money everywhere, so I do want to stay around 3k budget for my audio equip, so far:
- Paradigm LCR soundbar and Yamaha a1010/Marantz sr6006 combo - local dealer is giving me $2k out the door.
- $750 budgeted for sub
- $250 for Sony S790 bluray
- $160 for HTD HD-R65AIM rear in-ceiling surrounds
So yes, i am already over the 3k mark with the in-ceiling surrounds, don't really wanna keep pushing it...
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post #16 of 35
5/8/12 at 12:06pm
I can recommend the SB12-NSD as I have had it for a while now. It is a very good sub for such small form factor. It sounds very clean and punchy. The Sledge amp is fantastic as it prevents the sub from over-reaching itself. However, it doesn't provide a whole lot of output at the lowest bass frequencies (below 30hz).
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post #17 of 35
5/8/12 at 12:20pm
I keep forgetting the sound bar so with that the Epik Legend would be something to consider since you are going to use a 100Hz crossover probably.
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post #18 of 35
5/8/12 at 1:47pm
Thread Starter 
I found CEA-2010 measurements for the SVS SB12, does anyone have or know where I can find similar measurements for the other candidates? (Epik Legend, NHT b-12d, or RSL 10" Speedwoofer)

I did some digging, looks like real world test are hard to come by, but here are summarized results i found either through mfr's spec or magazine review:
Epik legend, from website
Frequency response: 20-200Hz +/- 3.5 dB, does this mean = -3.5 dB @ 20Hz on the low end and 200Hz on the high end? Kinda useless since iEpik doesn't give output measurements.
NHT B-12d, from website
Frequency response: -3dB 27Hz-130Hz, -6dB 25Hz, -10dB 23Hz
Peak output @1M: 120dB @ 58Hz, 115dB @ 40hz, 112dB @ 30Hz.
So to get output @2M, do I subtract 6dB from the 1M measurement above?
RSL Speedwoofer 10
From website: Frequency response: 24-180Hz +/- 3dB
From home theater magazine: "close-miked response, normalized to the level @ 80Hz, lower -3dB is 34 Hz, -6dB is 30 Hz and upper -3dB is 103 Hz." What is close-miked?
From Soundvision: 30 - 120kHz +/- 3dB. Bass output (CEA-2010 std): 20-31.5Hz = 108.0 dB and 40-63Hz = 117.9 dB.

Based upon these #, is the RSL louder than the NHT B-12d? Also, I found the test data for the Epik Empire here. The RSL is just as loud and low as the empire from 20-63 hz Since RSL offers no risk 30 days in home trial, I probably will just pick one up after I get my soundbar and avr setup.
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post #19 of 35
5/8/12 at 8:27pm
^^
Somehow I have a problem believing a single sealed 10" sub will have the same output as a dual sealed 15" sub from 20-63 hz.
Tim
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post #20 of 35
5/8/12 at 8:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

Size and preference. In the price range, i did consider the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus and HSU VTF-2 MK4. But both exceeds the 18"H requirement per my room layout in the original post. Also, although this will be my first 'real' home system, but i have had quite a few sub setup in car audio. Yes, you can get good sound from a well design and built ported setup, a similarly well executed sealed setup sounds cleaner and tighter to my ears, although it wouldn't go as low or loud.

You are right. But if you are in socal, you might be near HSU's main office. Might be fun to go listen. You might decide that maybe the VTF-2 MK4 might be worth trying to work into your space. It would also give you a better idea of what everyone is describing here when they talk about the ID subs because you'd have a frame of reference.

And given your room size and that it is open, the Epik Legend seems the choice to me over the SB12 and all the others you are considering. The dual 12" drivers give it an advantage in SPL.
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post #21 of 35
5/9/12 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

You are right. But if you are in socal, you might be near HSU's main office. Might be fun to go listen. You might decide that maybe the VTF-2 MK4 might be worth trying to work into your space. It would also give you a better idea of what everyone is describing here when they talk about the ID subs because you'd have a frame of reference.

And given your room size and that it is open, the Epik Legend seems the choice to me over the SB12 and all the others you are considering. The dual 12" drivers give it an advantage in SPL.

Dual 12"s would give it an advantage if everything else were equal, but it isn't. The SB12 is certainly going to be a much higher excursion driver than the Epiks'. However, the Epik's drivers are likely much lighter and would require less energy to move. I think you would see deeper and more even bass come from the SB12 and louder bass from the Legend- but in the higher frequencies. Another thing is, I hate to sound like that guy who will defend the X-Ref 12 ad nauseam, but it does pretty good deep frequencies for a sealed sub. It's true it has s steeper roll off than you would expect from a sealed sub, but it is pretty strong down to 30 hz, which is no easy task for a sealed 12". That is better than many ported subs. And again, when it is unfavorably compared to its competitors around here, I consider those comparisons invalid because it's competitors' performance isn't even known; there are no reliable measurements of the SB12, Legend, Rythmik F12, etc.
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post #22 of 35
5/9/12 at 9:20am
Thread Starter 
I looked up HSU and they're only 20 mins from me, i'll try to schedule a demo session and hopefully get a chance to hear a few of their subs. If anything I can use that as reference bases when I end up getting one of the sub discussed in this thread thus far.
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post #23 of 35
5/9/12 at 11:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

I looked up HSU and they're only 20 mins from me, i'll try to schedule a demo session and hopefully get a chance to hear a few of their subs. If anything I can use that as reference bases when I end up getting one of the sub discussed in this thread thus far.

I would go with HSU because of this. Any problem and you wont have to pay for shipping or wait for parts to be delivered.

VTF-15H is my vote, and you wont have to pay $139 for shipping either. Would equal out to the cost of the Empire, with more convenience to you. Plus, its a hell of a sub, and just as good if not better.
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post #24 of 35
5/9/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

This meets your size requirements and gets great reviews but higher than your budget. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15.html

I second this.
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post #25 of 35
5/9/12 at 11:23am
Quote:


Thanks Tim, i am leaning towards the legend as well, all else equal, the bigger enclosure should allow the sub to go a lil lower..Just trying to see what else is out there

You need to consider the possible amp failure with the Legend. I find that there are way too many reports of amp failure from that manufacturer.

Also, when you place an order, make sure that you include return shipping charges in your overall budget, just in case you don't like the sub. I've read many reports of people purchasing subs, based upon charts alone, and then end up returning it because they did not like it.

.
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post #26 of 35
5/9/12 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice guys, all very helpful. One of the reason why i'm leaning toward the RSL is because they offer 30 day risk trial with free shipping both ways, can't beat that! With HSU, there will be no shipping, but there's tax, although it should be less than shipping with the convenient of being local in case something happens. I am afraid to demo the ULS-15 cause I might just take it home the same day and blow the budget!
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post #27 of 35
5/9/12 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

Thanks for the advice guys, all very helpful. One of the reason why i'm leaning toward the RSL is because they offer 30 day risk trial with free shipping both ways, can't beat that! With HSU, there will be no shipping, but there's tax, although it should be less than shipping with the convenient of being local in case something happens. I am afraid to demo the ULS-15 cause I might just take it home the same day and blow the budget!

Sound like you made a good choice. Let us know how you like it once you get it home and set it up.
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post #28 of 35
5/9/12 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemdx03 View Post

I looked up HSU and they're only 20 mins from me, i'll try to schedule a demo session and hopefully get a chance to hear a few of their subs. If anything I can use that as reference bases when I end up getting one of the sub discussed in this thread thus far.

Oh, you'll get to hear their subs. As I understand it, they already have a demo room setup.
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post #29 of 35
5/9/12 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

^^
somehow i have a problem believing a single sealed 10" sub will have the same output as a dual sealed 15" sub from 20-63 hz.
Tim

+1
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post #30 of 35
5/10/12 at 3:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


Sound like you made a good choice. Let us know how you like it once you get it home and set it up.

If you're anything like most of us a year from now you will wish you had sprung for the ULS 15 , buy it then anyway, and sell the lesser sub on Audiogon.
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