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The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 39

post #1141 of 1780
2/9/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerdubs View Post

For what it is worth, I discussed your methods with a very experienced professional calibrator who stated -

"There is NO NEED for a LUT box on a VT series. It is quite accurate. The difference would not be visible."

In most cases the statement is correct in moving video but if you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like....



Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I don't think the guy knows what he is talking about, Maybe the guy should tell us and the professional studio's why, understanding that many professional studio's that master films and videos use LUT cube up to 1000 point gamut/cube to calibrate there equipment.

I do agree that the VT50's are fairly accurate with base settings. However please explain how a 6 point gamut/cube can compare to a gamut/cube of up to 1000 points, plus the fact that you can do a 21 point grayscale/Gamma/RGB balance when using most LUT boxes, like a Radiance 3D.

fyi, the VT50 (as most high end TV's) can hold/process only a 6 point gamut and a 10 point grayscale/gamma/RGB balance.

ss

Movie studios and post houses use 17 point display characterizations (4913 color points) as a standard, and they don't use Radiances, rather boxes like the Davio and more recently the eeColor Processor.
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post #1142 of 1780
2/9/13 at 9:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thSeal View Post

I was using 96hz for awhile and during one nature show my daughter was watching there was a scene of flying over a mountain with jagged rocks. The rocks were passing directly under the camera and jumping across the view really bad. I tried motion smoother but it didn't help and just turned it off again. I then changed to 60hz and replayed the scene and it was completely smooth. Now I just leave it at 60hz. I can't stand it if the picture isn't smooth and haven't noticed any more flickering (guess its what you'd call it) since leaving it at 60hz. smile.gif

I've found that 60hz is the best option as well.
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post #1143 of 1780
2/9/13 at 9:50pm
Well looks like a good handful of us have found 60hz independently. But I suspect sillysally has the upper hand from some component in his chain doing some video processing. Any of the other 60hzers using video processing of any sort? I have nothing but the tv for tht job.
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post #1144 of 1780
2/9/13 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Well looks like a good handful of us have found 60hz independently. But I suspect sillysally has the upper hand from some component in his chain doing some video processing. Any of the other 60hzers using video processing of any sort? I have nothing but the tv for tht job.

I'm not using anything for VP.
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post #1145 of 1780
2/10/13 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

In most cases the statement is correct in moving video but if you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like....

Movie studios and post houses use 17 point display characterizations (4913 color points) as a standard, and they don't use Radiances, rather boxes like the Davio and more recently the eeColor Processor.

I would tend to agree to a point with your first statement, except if you are talking about well mastered Blu Ray disc's then I tend to disagree. I would even go as far as saying that if you only view live broadcast's in many cases getting a standard pro calibration is not really necessary. TV's like are VT50's track pretty well, and as I am sure you know just because a so called pro calibrates a display doesn't always mean that its the best calibration for the uses of that consumer.
As you know there are so many variable's when doing a standard calibration (6 point Gamut, 10 point Gamma) that once the calibration is done and a week later a new pro comes and runs a calibration check, chances are the new report isn't going to show the same results as the first report.

As for your second statement I used the wording up to 1000 points.
Yes of-course they use a Processor/holder like eeColor, for the simply reason the Radiances can only do up to 125 points, eeColor can do up to 1000 points (as far as I know). However I have never used the eeColor so I can talk about how well it performs.

So my disagreement is with the statemented that was made
"There is NO NEED for a LUT box on a VT series. It is quite accurate. The difference would not be visible."

From what you are saying you agree with me, so what is your point?
Or are you saying its pointless to get any type of pro calibration on a VT50 unless, "you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like...."
You may want to reread that post, so here is the link to that post that I disagree with. wink.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1410156/the-official-panasonic-vt50-settings-thread/1110#post_22939969

ss
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post #1146 of 1780
2/10/13 at 2:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

I am also sensitive to this. Is this your first plasma? If so, you may get used to it, I did. I rarely see it any more. I've had mine for 4 months now.
that sounds good! Yes is my first one, one week now and i hope it will get better. Is 1080p 24hz and ntsc,pal,24p setting in popcornhour a400 the Best choise? Vt50 Europe modell i think, pure Direct on or off and why . Please help me with all those questions
Edited by rajjejosefsson - 2/10/13 at 3:40am
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post #1147 of 1780
2/10/13 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

TV's like are VT50's track pretty well, That graphic in post 1142 is my 65VT50 and the tracking is about average except for Cyan which is not good at all - thus my Dolphin comment.

As for your second statement I used the wording up to 1000 points.
Yes of-course they use a Processor/holder like eeColor, for the simply reason the Radiances can only do up to 125 points, eeColor can do up to 1000 points (as far as I know). However I have never used the eeColor so I can talk about how well it performs.

I'm not sure you understand LUTs. 125, 1000, 4913, whatever, are profiles, the number of points measured. A proper LUT whether made from a 125 point profile or a 4913 point profile is 65x65x65 = 274,625 color points. Of the millions of colors available, not too many will be one of the 274,625 LUT points exactly so the processor interpolates the nearest neighbor points to come up with an educated guess what signal to send to the display. It should be obvious that 4913 points will produce a more accurate LUT than 125 points. What is not so obvious is the fact that going beyond 4913 measured points produces very little in increased accuracy, something tested many times and well proven.

Calibrating the VT50 except 10 point instead of 21 point grayscale:



5x Cube - 125 point profile:



17x Cube - 4913 point profile:





From what you are saying you agree with me, so what is your point? My point is that I agree with some of your statements but not all.
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post #1148 of 1780
2/10/13 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


Yes I know a little about LUT's, but that is not the question is it.

The question is.
Do you agree or not with this post???
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1410156/the-official-panasonic-vt50-settings-thread/1110#post_22939969

ss
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post #1149 of 1780
2/10/13 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes I know a little about LUT's, but that is not the question is it.

The question is.
Do you agree or not with this post???
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1410156/the-official-panasonic-vt50-settings-thread/1110#post_22939969

ss

I answered that in post 1142 when I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

In most cases the statement is correct in moving video but if you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like....

On my TV it makes a difference. Turquoise/Cyan goes blue. I can see it with known content. Remember, they're all different.

In truth, the average videophile would be hard pressed to see the difference between an ST50 and a VT50. In my opinion, the best thing about the VT50 is the 10 point gamma control, ABL or not it's fun to play with.

I'm in need of a new reference display at my FL address for LUT sales but I wouldn't make it a VT50 due to black level. I've been calibrating some Sharp Elites and they turn heads so I guess I'll be waiting on the numbers from the 2013 Samsung F8000 LCD, F8500 plasma, and Panasonic ZT60.
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post #1150 of 1780
2/11/13 at 2:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I answered that in post 1142 when I said:

What I am really trying to find out, is LS Home/eeColor a benefit for calibrating a VT50 over CM5 Enthusiast/Radiance Mini 3D LUT workflow.

(1) When I see post's from you like this post (below) I read it as yes there is a very noticeable improvement.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437739/lightspace-cms-now-supports-lumagen-eecolor-3d-lut-4-all#post_22612302

(2) However in are little debate here, I read it that you are saying there is no improvement using any box or calibration software for a LUT cube profile.

So what is it iyo, 1 or 2 ????

ss
Edited by sillysally - 2/11/13 at 4:10am
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post #1151 of 1780
2/11/13 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

What I am really trying to find out, is LS Home/eeColor a benefit for calibrating a VT50 over CM5 Enthusiast/Radiance Mini 3D LUT workflow.

1. 2 point GS is better than no calibration
2. Full CMS is better
3. Calman 5x LUT better still
4. LightSpace 17x LUT even better

But how much better and at what cost? You are already getting a very good picture with your present software and processor. Do you need improvements that might only be visually observable in a paused image? The professional 3D LUTs, at least for the time being, are targeting professional studio monitors and home theater owners who want the best no matter the cost.

(1) When I see post's from you like this post (below) I read it as yes there is a very noticeable improvement.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1437739/lightspace-cms-now-supports-lumagen-eecolor-3d-lut-4-all#post_22612302

The referenced post concerns an LCD display, not a plasma, and there is a difference. Plasmas have ABL which cannot be turned off and that type of processing is constantly fighting any type of calibration. LCDs and projectors respond to LUTs better than plasma. 3D LUTs improve the plasma picture as you have seen with your calman/lumagen combination, but just not as much as other display types.

(2) However in are little debate here, I read it that you are saying there is no improvement using any box or calibration software for a LUT cube profile over a normal 6 point/10point 1D calibration.

Where did I say that? A 3D Cube LUT is always going to be better than a 1D LUT.
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post #1152 of 1780
2/11/13 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post



]1. 2 point GS is better than no calibration
2. Full CMS is better
3. Calman 5x LUT better still
4. LightSpace 17x LUT even better

But how much better and at what cost? You are already getting a very good picture with your present software and processor. Do you need improvements that might only be visually observable in a paused image? The professional 3D LUTs, at least for the time being, are targeting professional studio monitors and home theater owners who want the best no matter the cost.

Cost is not the problem, Improvement is. I mostly view the latest Bly Ray movies 2D and 3D (stereo).

The referenced post concerns an LCD display, not a plasma, and there is a difference. Plasmas have ABL which cannot be turned off and that type of processing is constantly fighting any type of calibration. LCDs and projectors respond to LUTs better than plasma. 3D LUTs improve the plasma picture as you have seen with your calman/lumagen combination, but just not as much as other display types.

Yes I have seen the improvement with my current software and hardware, that's why I am trying to find out what LS and ccColor can do for me now..

Where did I say that? A 3D Cube LUT is always going to be better than a 1D LUT.

You said you answered that in post 1142 when you said:
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post #1153 of 1780
2/11/13 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


post 1142? Show me my quote where I said a 3D LUT is no improvement. I said "but if you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like...." which means you need a cube LUT in order to do it.
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post #1154 of 1780
2/11/13 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

post 1142? Show me my quote where I said a 3D LUT is no improvement. I said "but if you want to see what Miami Dolpins uniform color looks like...." which means you need a cube LUT in order to do it.

Ok now that is completely settled.

I am glad we are seeing eye to eye now.. wink.gif

ss.
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post #1155 of 1780
2/11/13 at 1:03pm
i would love to see, side by side, a 65VT50 with a standard ISF calibration and one with the lumagen.
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post #1156 of 1780
2/11/13 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

i would love to see, side by side, a 65VT50 with a standard ISF calibration and one with the lumagen.

How did your dnice calibration go? smile.gif
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post #1157 of 1780
2/11/13 at 2:08pm
Had to reschedule it for next Sunday.
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post #1158 of 1780
2/12/13 at 4:28am
Has anyone else noticed that over the life of your VT50, that at certain times it looks like the overall picture changes as though it's self adjusting some of its settings?

Does the display have some kind of self adjustment feature based on number of hours?
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post #1159 of 1780
2/12/13 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Has anyone else noticed that over the life of your VT50, that at certain times it looks like the overall picture changes as though it's self adjusting some of its settings?

Does the display have some kind of self adjustment feature based on number of hours?

Not for me, but I am still using the original menu, is this ocurring with the added isf menues?

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post #1160 of 1780
2/12/13 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Has anyone else noticed that over the life of your VT50, that at certain times it looks like the overall picture changes as though it's self adjusting some of its settings?

Does the display have some kind of self adjustment feature based on number of hours?

What you're noticing are the 'rising MLL levels'. wink.gifwink.gif
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post #1161 of 1780
2/12/13 at 11:17am
Looks like contrast and colors slightly improved. Brightness (black level) remains the same but I'd have to check.
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post #1162 of 1780
2/12/13 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Looks like contrast and colors slightly improved. Brightness (black level) remains the same but I'd have to check.

I'd take it! Don't go undoing it by accident biggrin.gif
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post #1163 of 1780
2/12/13 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Looks like contrast and colors slightly improved. Brightness (black level) remains the same but I'd have to check.

Yes, I've noticed it too, thought it was just in my head!
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post #1164 of 1780
2/12/13 at 11:20pm
!!
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post #1165 of 1780
2/13/13 at 12:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Looks like contrast and colors slightly improved. Brightness (black level) remains the same but I'd have to check.

You may want to try a reset of your VT50.

I found that my ISF modes where retaining some funkie setting that lowered the pictures over all brightness/contrast. Anyway I used the latest version of Controlcal reset all 4 port HDMI Day/Night ISF mode settings back to default, turned off all Enchantments, reset my contrast, brightness, sharpness, gamma target, color temp for use with my Radiance Mini 3D stored calibrations. If I had to guess the funkieness was being caused by Calman's DDC controls in there beta software.

And yes there is always the aging process to be considered.

ss
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post #1166 of 1780
2/13/13 at 12:58am
SS

I reset the VT50 several months ago. These changes developed since then.


On an unrelated subject, where can you send your meter (i1pro2) to have it verified and if needing adjustment, adjusted? It's less than a year old so should still be under warranty.
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post #1167 of 1780
2/13/13 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post


On an unrelated subject, where can you send your meter (i1pro2) to have it verified and if needing adjustment, adjusted? It's less than a year old so should still be under warranty.

You have two choices:

http://www.xrite.com/top_contact.aspx


SpectraCAL..



Only X-rite can correct/repair i1Pro / i1Pro 2 Spectros if needed.

Check out this thread as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449310/eye-one-pro-or-display-3-pro


If it was me, I wouldn't have the i1Pro II checked until after a year, perhaps more towards 1-2 years.. After there is enough data and good news (and time), perhaps I will just say skip it for home users as I do the i1Pro Rev D's...
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post #1168 of 1780
2/13/13 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

SS

I reset the VT50 several months ago. These changes developed since then.


On an unrelated subject, where can you send your meter (i1pro2) to have it verified and if needing adjustment, adjusted? It's less than a year old so should still be under warranty.

Jim, just to have it verified Calman can do that. To have it re calibrated/fixed you have to send it back to the manufacture.

From everything I have read your I1Pro2 should be fine, they don't go bad unless you start dropping them against the wall. .
Did you run the X-Rite test program to see if there is any problem

ss

I see turbe replied when I was typing, but I will leave this posted, because are opinion is the same.
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post #1169 of 1780
2/15/13 at 5:19am
Guys I need some help here.

I have the 65VT50 and I am using Custom settings from a member here which are very nice but I recently bought a Samsung Blu Ray player and was watching batman when I noticed that the samsung controller has a tools button where you can make changes within the blu ray player. It has picture settings like the ones from a samsung tv and it is set to standard. It can be put on movie or dynamic or user with limited options to tweak in user.

i dont want the picture settings on this blu ray to affect my custom settings from my VT50

should I leave it at standard for the samsung player picture settings or user? I would hate to think that the dumb blu ray player picture settings is ruining my custom settings and overall pq of the VT50
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post #1170 of 1780
2/15/13 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPapi1977 View Post

Guys I need some help here.

I have the 65VT50 and I am using Custom settings from a member here which are very nice but I recently bought a Samsung Blu Ray player and was watching batman when I noticed that the samsung controller has a tools button where you can make changes within the blu ray player. It has picture settings like the ones from a samsung tv and it is set to standard. It can be put on movie or dynamic or user with limited options to tweak in user.

i dont want the picture settings on this blu ray to affect my custom settings from my VT50

should I leave it at standard for the samsung player picture settings or user? I would hate to think that the dumb blu ray player picture settings is ruining my custom settings and overall pq of the VT50

My guess is you might want to find a thread for the player you have and ask around there as to which settings leaves the video untouched.
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