The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 43

Looks like it was the change in available controls via ControlCal that confused this issue. I am a recent purchaser/user of ControlCal so your statement confused me until you qualified it later. Thanks for that!

Funny things is that after I went through all of the picture Modes and setting including D-Nice and others custom setting,I somewhat liked the Vivid setting!!!it gives more pop in the picture and color looks more realistic than other setting!!!!!I never liked Vivid setting before until now......................
VIVID MODE:>

PICTURE :82
BRIGHTNESS :50
COLOR :45
TINT : 0
SHARPNESS :50
COLOR TEMP :COOL2
COLOR MGMT : ON

Once you change the numbers in any of the settings, doesn't the pre-set names become irrelevant?

If you have access to all of the controls within a particular mode and were able to change them all to match someone's custom settings, I would say yes. However, I believe certain modes don't give you the same level of control and therefore wouldn't be identical.

Edit: Took a look at Vivid on my VT50. Does not allow entry into the "Pro Settings" area and therefore would not be the same as D-Nice's shared settings. That's not to say however that you can't "tame" vivid with some better settings and make it more appealing.

I don't know if you use Calman's 5.1 LUT Cube workflow or not, but from what I just saw (posted the results) from a new LUT Cube 3D (stereo) calibration using Controlcal for setting W/B H/L in ISF day mode (Calman doesn't have a W/B H/L range setting for ISF modes) in my VT50 and then running a full 125 point Gamut and 21 point grayscale/RGB balance and Gamma it came out very nice.

I should add that Calman has the individual 2 point settings for 30 and 100 but imo those settings if set do not help when using the LUT Cube calibration for my VT50.

ss

SS: You are a much more advanced calibrator. I'm only using ControlCal to manage multiple settings files. I've most likely overstepped the boundaries of my knowledge here!

Actually all those controls have been in ControlCAL from the very beginning, way back with the VT30's and all the controls in the app have been functional from the beginning..... you can also access them with calman, just select 2pt if you do want to access them...

My post above is accurate in regards to the controls, thank you sillysallly for editing your post in reply to mine above, I was a little surprised at it when I saw it come through last night.

And of course you can just use Custom for D-Nice settings, the ControlCAL settings file for his settings are posted in his post #5 in his reference settings thread on my forum for those who want it... Most of ControlCAL's users are Calibrators (Professionals and Enthusiasts) with meters in hand, regardless of what other software they use, they use and prefer ControlCAL's features and interface..

btw, stay tuned for the email broadcast with a new version available, nifty new stuff..

The Check Update should already be notifying users.

Got the check update dialogue when I started it up today. Will be emailing you shortly!

SC

no need scirica, I am about to have the server email out (broadcast) the info for the new version, ControlCAL G/VT30 Edition v2.0.2..

edit: I see your email.. I'll reply with the info real quick...
Edited by turbe - 2/26/13 at 9:47am

When I don't have it right I will get it right and re-post or edit.
I still don't think you can use W/B H/L RGB in Calman by simply using the 2 point 30/80, and I have tried and it simply messes up the LUT Cube calibration. So just to be clear imo don't make any changes in those setting for a VT50 using the LUT Cube and a Radiance Mini 3D for a 2D LUT cube calibration, however with a 3D (stereo) LUT cube calibration using Controlcal and its W/B H/L RGB settings work very well
If you look at the chart I posted and know that that is a 3D (Stereo) LUT cube calibration, I don't think a 3D (non stereo) Cube calibration will come out much better, this is the best 3D stereo calibration I have seen using what I use..
iow, this is a nice complement I am giving to Controlcal.

ss

Silly Sally, for the people without all the understanding of look up tables etc, is there a way to boil down what a Radiance Mini 3D does for you and your vt50? Is it just a means of getting a calibration to come out even more accurately on the display or is it more than that for your experience?

I tried looking it up and even the brochure language flys over my head right now

At least I'm not alone!

lol not at all alone. Im normally pretty competent with new technical areas, but man the readup I just did on it got into such specifics and was so thorough that by the end of it you would have thought that I'd at least understand the practical value the product could provide me...but I was even more confused than when I started!

Some good info here: http://www.lightillusion.com/luts.html


I've been playing around with luts on my pc's for a while, it's common for the label "cube" to be used including in the visuals.. I prefer to view the actual target colorspace sized to the lut

this - You don't see Luminance (Y)


vs this


10x10x10
Play video in HD

Edited by turbe - 2/26/13 at 11:12am

It is a processor/scalier for your sources and display. Kind of like a Darbee but much more detailed and can do so much more. imo the biggest reason to get a Mini 3D is to be able to store and process a LUT Cube calibration. The LUT Cube calibration 125 point gamut (CMS) and up to 21Point grayscale when used with a Mini 3D, What this type of calibration means to us is more detail, better color, deeper picture, better lighting just a better picture all around..
This type of calibration uses what is called triplets, what that means is it blends three degrees of gray or colors together to come up with one specialized color like dark skin, light shin, shy blue etc.and then setts that color in its proper place inside a triangle/colorspace not just on the edges (see CIE/colorspace chart in my normal calibration in my sig) . When a normal 6 piont gamut (CMS) is run and inputted into are VT50's it only uses one color not a blend ( Red, Green, Blue, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow). Also you can use a 21 point Grauscale/RGB/Gamma as opposed to a 10 point Grayscale/RGB/Gamma, this also should add to the PQ.
Of-course all this is saying that it is done correctly with the right tools. For us DIY calibrators it really is much easier do this type of calibration process than it sounds and with pro like results. imo this type of calibration will top any pro's normal calibration if set up right.

I hope this is what you need to know, in simple terms.

ss
Edited by sillysally - 2/26/13 at 11:45am

THANK YOU!

I think I'm getting it now. There's no way I could have understood any of that without someone like you writing it up. Where you talk about the specialized colors really resonates with me and hints very well at what I think I can expect. Seems like it essentially takes the 'guesswork' part of the color equation out of the TV's hands and it feeds it specific 'coordinates' essentially.

each one of the dots in my 3D pics / video above can be adjusted / moved.. my example is a 3D LUT sized 10x10x10 (1000 individual points available for adjustment / offset)...

Yes the whole process from calibration to viewing are VT50 is basically taken out of are hands and optimized for are VT50's. No excuses just about the best are display can look for both 2D and 3D (stereo, shutter glasses).

Have you ran a LUT cube calibration?

Its my understanding that 10000 points is way over kill for are consumer displays. Actually I am told by Steve that there would be very little reason not to use a Radiance Mini 3D and LS for my VT50, because of how LS profiles.
I have been also told by Buzz that for the VT50 there is little reason to get LS over Calman 5.1 for moving pictures like a movie.

ss
Edited by sillysally - 2/26/13 at 2:23pm

yes but I'm doing things on the PC for my projectors where I really need it... I like 10^3 size for profiling and offsetting..

The great thing about the Radiance Mini, you can use it as a pattern generator for any display (you don't have to use the LUTs).. but you get the advantage of having the LUTs..

So, cheapest IMO Professional grade full triplet pattern generator is the Accupel at $1299, next a few hundred more the Mini.. more and more enthusiasts are finding the benefits of a good pattern generator.

EDIT: There is the iScan Duo $699 - $899 that is a full triplet pattern generator ...
Edited by turbe - 2/26/13 at 1:22pm

Yes 10^3 should work well and maybe you could go to 16^3 from what I have read, anyway let us know what you think of the Cube calibration using LS once you run some reference material.
btw I meant to say 10000 points not 1000 points.

ss

I'm not using LS.. as many, I started with MadVr a few years back but I wasn't happy with things and I have a Klein K-10 which wasn't supported at all. I created my own app for my purposes that I fool around with in my spare time.. in the process of changing the interface and playing around with doing different things.. mainly in/out of different colorspaces.

With the eeColor box recently reduced to only $600, kinda of through me for a loop but I'm going to continue with my app, interesting stuff.
Edited by turbe - 2/26/13 at 3:06pm

Did you get a response to your email?

I have the Panny 65VT50 I am have problems get it on line. I have Fios have tried to hot wire with a long cable from router to back of unit no good. A friend told me to get new apple Airport router no good. Anyone know how to help me?

How about a MoCA adapter? Actiontec (the company that makes the FiOS routers) makes MoCa adapters that are relativley inexpensive and pretty much plug and play with FiOS. All you do is use a 2-way splitter to split the cable coming out of the wall - one cable goes to the adapter and the other goes to your STB/DVR. The adapter has an ethernet port that gives you a wired connection back to the router over the coax cable.

You only need one adapter b/c it can communicate directly with the FiOS router. I use mine with an ethernet switch to get wired connections to my TV, AVR, BluRay player, and Xbox 360. It works very well.

Here is the link to the adapter on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ethernet-Adapter-Service-ECB2500C/dp/B008C1JC4O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1361923380&sr=8-2&keywords=actiontec+moca

DNice has already posted settings for this TV that you can use. Those will have the same impact as these other settings you are asking for since each panel is different. If you truly are looking for a calibrated picture on your TV, then you should call up Dnice and have him come calibrate yours. But to expect someone who paid the money to a calibrator to then post those settings in a public forum (or even email them to privately) is being naive.

I disagree...this is a forum. We are sharing experiences (and settings BTW) among ourselves as hobbyists and enthusiasts. Many of us have purchased ControlCal which lets us easily manage multiple settings files conveniently. We understand that each panel is different and custom calibrations are just that, custom. I have had my VT50 calibrated by Jeff Meier (UMR) and am more than happy to lend the settings to those that are curious. For some they were much better than stock settings, and for others, they were not an improvement. I don't consider myself naive at all.

I agree scirica there's no reason not to share. As the calibrators will be the first to tell you, you won't get the results they provide unless you get the calibration done to your panel otherwise the very basic 'demand' for their services wouldn't exist - its not some hocus pocus where they swear everyone to secrecy, since they obviously provide people tangible results. Since they correct inherent errors in the TV to some degree from its out of the box state you'll see improvements by using any of the calibrated settings most likely.

I can't say enough how much improvement Robnix's and Dnice's settings were for me over the stock picture, but I know enough now and can read the data properly to understand that I'm going to have to pay a caibrator to get the whole package or go DIY style, no one elses settings are going to do that for me and I think that's really more to your point KGB since your gonna have to pay to play some way or other.

I think MNC was just being polite by asking.

Matt posted the charts from the results on his panel of Dnice's 'reference' settings and then again after Dnice tuned for his specific panel.

From my limited understanding of the charts, the original tune had a excessive red on Matt's panel. The new tune fixed that. Several of us who have tried Dnice's initial settings have also noticed too much red.

Logic would dictate that if Dnice is going to release any settings to represent his work, the settings that seem to be helping the most peoples panels would be the ones to offer. Having 'reference' settings that most of us have too much red on isn't showing his best results in this case.

I think there are definitely 2 different type of people on here. Some of us already spent enough on the TV itself that we will never spend $400-$500 to have it custom calibrated. We just do this for fun and are tweakers. The other type of people who want the best possible results are going to pay for a tune specific to their own panel. They are going to do this no matter what user settings are floating around on the internet.

Matt's tests on both of Dnice's settings are proof that each panel can be different. That fact is not going to change. There will always be work for the people wanting to pay for the best possible results.

Excellent retort "powerdubs", you summed it up perfectly. From most if not all posts I've read over the years, the calibrators don't mind if their customers post their final settings, asking first, I guess is being "proper", but as you basically stated already, every panel is going to differ enough from the next to warrant a real calibration if you seek perfection, so you either DIY, or pay to play. I just got my 55" VT50 and plan on plugging in some others posted settings/results, just for fun. The THX setting on this, my first plasma versus my now retired 37" Sharp Aquos LCD, is so dam good, I'm still drooling over the images. My first movie was an iTunes HD rental (the 4gb size 1080p/720p), "Sky Fall", and it was like being in the front row of the movie house. Glad I held out this long for a plasma, seems it's "matured"! I know my Oppo83 BlueRay playback will look even better, have to go back and review that manual, for some setting choices I never "qualified for", as now I finally have a "real" HDTV!

I guess the point I was trying to make is if dnice or another calibrator wants to share the settings in public then let him do it but posting it without their permission. Maybe I am the one being naive but I don't see dnice, or Jeff Meier giving everyone a detailed spreadsheet of all the settings they have done on every tv nd one ow they differ so we can just pick and choose and never have to use their services.

It seems more like for those who have paid and are curious, it is a different bucket to share amongst themselves in public versus those who have not paid and are just looking for another set to try. Nothing wrong with the latter, just not my cup of tea.

But definitely a fair question to ask dnice about the red push and what he thinks which I saw you guys did on the other forum.