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The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 59

post #1741 of 2130
Thx made still needs a gray scale adjustment. Why would I not do that in the service menu, like a gt50 or st series with no pro menu. Doing a from scratch gray scale calibration with something a lumagen isn't the best move, because banding can be increased.
post #1742 of 2130
Because you can really mess up your display, if you screw it up there is no reset unlike the Custom and ISF modes.

If you have the pro level software and hardware equipment you are not going to get any better calibration out of your VT50 then using Custom/ISF modes.

Understand that using a THX mode, is not going to improve the limitations of the VT50 over the above modes. Its that simple.

I don't know what Lumagen you are talking about, but I am talking about the Lumagen Radiance 3D and not using its enhancements just the same as it is not suggested to use enhancements for a VT50 calibration.
Also to make it clear I would only use a Lumagen Radiance 3D for a VT50 because of it capability to store and process a 125 LUT.

So no, if properly setup the Lumagen Radiance 3D shouldn't be a cause of banding.
Don't forget I do have a Lumagen Radiance 3D mini, and in my case there is NO banding when using it for a LUT type of calibration and sending the signal to my VT50.
post #1743 of 2130
If you get too aggressive with 10 pt adjustments in a lumagen, it can increase banding. That's why you should calibrate the display first with its congtrols, then dial it in with tweaks on the lumagen (grayscale and gamma). That's a fact.

As far as messing the display up calibrating in the service menu, whatever. If you can't navigate that you shouldnt even own a meter.
post #1744 of 2130
Once more you are missing what I am saying.

When you use the Lumagen Radiance 3D for a LUT type of calibration, Ideally you don't want to get to involved in a calibration using the 10 point controls of the VT50 so yes that part I agree. However what you seem to be missing is I am not talking about a standard calibration I am talking about a LUT type of calibration and using a Lumagen Radiance 3D for that.
When you run a LUT calibration using software like Calman 5 and a version of Calman that supports the Lumagen Radiance 3D, then you more than likely you will be doing a 21 point grayscale and a 125 point LUT. This is all done in autocal mode, you are not tweaking this. And yes of-course you can screw anything up like the service mode.wink.gif
So unless you have the equipment to do what I am talking about, please don't make a definitive statements that can be miss leading.

Well then I guess I should not own the meters I own. rolleyes.gif

btw, is that why you sold your meters after only have them for about one month?smile.gif
post #1745 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rice Rocket View Post

Sounds like gamma is off if you think it looks dull despite max contrast and panel brightness on high. Should be easy to experiment with the gamma setting. Which setting are you using? How did THX Bright Room look?

I don't think the settings are the same between the VT50 and VT60. Heck--I don't think they are even identical between the 55VT50 and the 65VT50, and there are slight panel variations within the same sized VT50's.

In custom mode.....Gamma was 2.2, Contrast 100, Brightness 50, Panel Brightness high. All other modes off. Now, would the ISF Day mode yield a brighter result? This is on a 60VT60.
post #1746 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Once more you are missing what I am saying.

When you use the Lumagen Radiance 3D for a LUT type of calibration, Ideally you don't want to get to involved in a calibration using the 10 point controls of the VT50 so yes that part I agree. However what you seem to be missing is I am not talking about a standard calibration I am talking about a LUT type of calibration and using a Lumagen Radiance 3D for that.
When you run a LUT calibration using software like Calman 5 and a version of Calman that supports the Lumagen Radiance 3D, then you more than likely you will be doing a 21 point grayscale and a 125 point LUT. This is all done in autocal mode, you are not tweaking this. And yes of-course you can screw anything up like the service mode.wink.gif
So unless you have the equipment to do what I am talking about, please don't make a definitive statements that can be miss leading.

Well then I guess I should not own the meters I own. rolleyes.gif

btw, is that why you sold your meters after only have them for about one month?smile.gif

You've been prpven wrong again and again, and chad isnt the only pro that disagrees with most of what you say. I'll just digress, because its like a brick wall.

As far as the meter go, those were with Calman, I already own Chromapure gear, in case that was a failed attempt at poking a jab. I also find it funny you sold your C6 and I1 for a meter that still should be profiled against something like an I1, or better. hmmm... It would normally not be used on its own, but hey it costs a lot.
post #1747 of 2130
Please enlighten me, but try using facts this time and thinking for yourself not what your interpretation of hear say is. Second thought we have taken this way overtime, so if you feel the need reply in a PM.
If Chad wants to take me up on my friendly offer and understanding he is in my neck of the woods, then he should PM me.
Also ask Chad if he goes into the service menu when he calibrates a VT50.

I sold my I1pro because I have a I1pro 2, I sold my C6 because I have a Klein K10-A, that I use with Calman5 pro.
btw, are you the guy that was also trying to sell his copy of calman with his meters. Just kidding no need to reply.

Anyway, peace be with you. smile.gif
post #1748 of 2130
has anybody on here done extensive testing regarding motion jitter / stuttering on the VT50 ?

If so, I'd be interested in results and what settings you chose to use after these tests...

Thanks.

- M
post #1749 of 2130
I found both 96hz mode and 60hz mode with a 24p input to have issues, so I just set my blu-ray player to output 1080p/60hz. If you want some SOE, motion smoother weak is not bad at all for artifacts, but once you go to medium, it gets out of hand.
post #1750 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I found both 96hz mode and 60hz mode with a 24p input to have issues, so I just set my blu-ray player to output 1080p/60hz. If you want some SOE, motion smoother weak is not bad at all for artifacts, but once you go to medium, it gets out of hand.

yeah I've found the same thing: I did some testing and Motion Smoother on weak helps a little bit with motion jitter - no need to go beyond weak as it does not help further bur introduces way more artifacts...

- M
post #1751 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

yeah I've found the same thing: I did some testing and Motion Smoother on weak helps a little bit with motion jitter - no need to go beyond weak as it does not help further bur introduces way more artifacts...

- M

I am a fan of weak myself smile.gif
post #1752 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I found both 96hz mode and 60hz mode with a 24p input to have issues, so I just set my blu-ray player to output 1080p/60hz. If you want some SOE, motion smoother weak is not bad at all for artifacts, but once you go to medium, it gets out of hand.
I've done the same thing, but no motion smoother. 60hz output from the bluray player seems to provide the best motion handling.
post #1753 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I am a fan of weak myself smile.gif

Yepp, since going to 1080p/60 on the player, I use weak on Bluray and broadcast HD.
post #1754 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Also ask Chad if he goes into the service menu when he calibrates a VT50.

Chad did not go into the Service Menu to calibrate my VT50 on Monday night, but in conversations we've had in the past he said he could calibrate a THX mode if desired. He continued to say that is rarely requested these days because of the flexibility of the ISF modes.
post #1755 of 2130
Set looks good after last nights work, too bad they dont make a meter that can calibrate out normal issues of broadcast HD, like compression. I've pretty much given up on that stuff looking perfect, because it isnt gonna happen.

On the other hand, I watched some Dr Who and Orphan Black in HD off Amazon today, then watched a couple of movies on Vudu HDX. Looked phenomenal. Great source = great PQ, so-so source, nothing a good calibration can entirely fix.

In the previous cal I saw what I felt was a hair of sunburn in peoples faces at times, but this time it appears to be remedied. I can only guess using 75% amplitude and 75% saturation was the solution, as people said it was a better move.
post #1756 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by scirica View Post

Chad did not go into the Service Menu to calibrate my VT50 on Monday night, but in conversations we've had in the past he said he could calibrate a THX mode if desired. He continued to say that is rarely requested these days because of the flexibility of the ISF modes.

I already knew what his response would be, he seems to be a stand up guy and a good calibrator.
Someone like Chad with his skill set isn't going to play around were he shouldn't. At-least on a TV like the VT50's with all the necessary controls he needs to do a standard calibration right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Set looks good after last nights work, too bad they dont make a meter that can calibrate out normal issues of broadcast HD, like compression. I've pretty much given up on that stuff looking perfect, because it isnt gonna happen.

On the other hand, I watched some Dr Who and Orphan Black in HD off Amazon today, then watched a couple of movies on Vudu HDX. Looked phenomenal. Great source = great PQ, so-so source, nothing a good calibration can entirely fix.

In the previous cal I saw what I felt was a hair of sunburn in peoples faces at times, but this time it appears to be remedied. I can only guess using 75% amplitude and 75% saturation was the solution, as people said it was a better move.

A little tip, you may want to bring your outer primary's and secondary's out to the square boxes, your VT50 is capable of doing that. By bringing them in you are limiting the your color space thereby limiting what your VT50 can really do. .
Before you get mad at me, check out the Charts that have been posted from pro calibrator like Chad, you will see what I am talking about. Also you may want to post your raw numbers from your calibration for both GS and CMS.
post #1757 of 2130
I finally understand silkysally's wisdom regarding 96hz.

I've switched back to 96hz. The clarity and picture overall has made me choose it over the very rare scene where 6hz blur helps out. I like it less blurry.
post #1758 of 2130
I apologize if this has been discussed before, but how on earth do i swtich the " 1080 pure direct" to on from being grayed out??
post #1759 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but how on earth do i swtich the " 1080 pure direct" to on from being grayed out??

You have to feed the set a 1080P signal with 4:4:4 color space.
post #1760 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

I finally understand silkysally's wisdom regarding 96hz.

I've switched back to 96hz. The clarity and picture overall has made me choose it over the very rare scene where 6hz blur helps out. I like it less blurry.

Couldn't find any posts by SillySally that refer to this, can you post a link? Thanks.
post #1761 of 2130
96hz has great motion most of the time, but on some side pans you get a lot of double imaging. 60hz out of the player with the vt50 just accepting 1080/60p is actually the best setting from a test pattern standpoint. I do use 96hz for the overall look and because the mll is lower.
post #1762 of 2130
Anyone in the Chicago land area looking for a 65VT50, check out my ad in the AVS classified section.
post #1763 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

Couldn't find any posts by SillySally that refer to this, can you post a link? Thanks.

sorry, I didn't bookmark the page. He basically said don't bother changing it for the few instances where the panning makes things fall apart since its a great mode otherwise....i've started to agree now that I've watched the last few movies with it on. I've even gone as far as to tell the bluray players to send DVD content in 24p to experiment and it does appear better than 60 for the greater majority of the time if you can ignore the jitter on a few unfortunate scenes.

but who knows, maybe i'll cycle back again to 60 in a few months since that's the way these things go wink.gif
post #1764 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

sorry, I didn't bookmark the page. He basically said don't bother changing it for the few instances where the panning makes things fall apart since its a great mode otherwise....i've started to agree now that I've watched the last few movies with it on. I've even gone as far as to tell the bluray players to send DVD content in 24p to experiment and it does appear better than 60 for the greater majority of the time if you can ignore the jitter on a few unfortunate scenes.

but who knows, maybe i'll cycle back again to 60 in a few months since that's the way these things go wink.gif

Thanks, I'm basically experimenting here, and since I've never had all the pieces of the puzzle to enable 24p and 96hz, that's what I'm choosing as well. Getting the VT50, compliments my older Oppo 83 BR player, and now I also have the new Pany 330 3D BR player, which did NOT allow a 96hz playback with the 3D Avatar BR disk. I've followed every post and have taken notes, and will continue to experiment, but for now I'm leaning toward trying all the settings I was never able to engage before to see for myself, since now depending on source, all the modes are now available. Thanks for the feedback.
post #1765 of 2130
No problem. just thought I should point out that you cannot use 96hz on 3D content which probably why you had issues. Also for 3D content you'll probably like 48hz instead of 60 because it creates less distractions with crosstalk (doubleimages).

To use the 48/60/96hz (you'll hate 48) on your tv you only need to ensure that your Bluray player is set to output 24p and that will enable the mode on your tv when the content is running. Normally the player has settings for 24p for both Bluray and DVD content independent of each other.

Have fun biggrin.gif

If you are playing with other settings in the player/tv I would recommend you set your player output resolution to 1080p only which forces the player to upscale instead of letting the vt50 do it (vt50 is not as good generally). If you can also enable color settings on your player to 4:4:4 in tandem with 1080p output you can then enable the 1080p direct mode on your vt50 which lets you bypass some of the tv processing and is also slightly better. Sorry if you know all this already, but if not, if it were me in there tinkering I'd put these ones on too.
post #1766 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

No problem. just thought I should point out that you cannot use 96hz on 3D content which probably why you had issues. Also for 3D content you'll probably like 48hz instead of 60 because it creates less distractions with crosstalk (doubleimages).

To use the 48/60/96hz (you'll hate 48) on your tv you only need to ensure that your Bluray player is set to output 24p and that will enable the mode on your tv when the content is running. Normally the player has settings for 24p for both Bluray and DVD content independent of each other.

Have fun biggrin.gif

If you are playing with other settings in the player/tv I would recommend you set your player output resolution to 1080p only which forces the player to upscale instead of letting the vt50 do it (vt50 is not as good generally). If you can also enable color settings on your player to 4:4:4 in tandem with 1080p output you can then enable the 1080p direct mode on your vt50 which lets you bypass some of the tv processing and is also slightly better. Sorry if you know all this already, but if not, if it were me in there tinkering I'd put these ones on too.

Thanks for the tips, going to keep them in my files, already doing most of them, now at least I know 96hz is not an available setting for 3D, never hurts to repeat "settings" for new forum thread readers, as there sure are a LOT of settings between the VT50 display, my AVR and the BR decks I own. I just finished doing a new diagram of all my possible cable connections and settings for various devices, some HDMI stuff I even have routed through a (import only) Sony MDR-DS7500 Headphone wireless base station. Thanks again!
post #1767 of 2130
So I had a chance to mess around with Calman and I used the autocal feature. I really don't know if my results are good.



Could some of the experts chime in and let me know if these look good?

I should mention. These are for the ISF Day setting. I used gamma 2.4 and mid panel brightness. My brightness is set to 57 and contrast is 100% I have about 47 fL output.

Thanks
Edited by djn2004 - 5/8/13 at 7:00pm
post #1768 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by djn2004 View Post

So I had a chance to mess around with Calman and I used the autocal feature. I really don't know if my results are good.

Could some of the experts chime in and let me know if these look good?

I should mention. These are for the ISF Day setting. I used gamma 2.4 and mid panel brightness. My brightness is set to 57 and contrast is 100% I have about 47 fL output.

Thanks

Yes they look ok, considering you have your brightness set a little to high and your contrast set way to high.

You are probably seeing a lot of clipping and a bit of a washed out picture.

Actually considering your settings, I am surprised to see those charts and numbers look that good using autocal.

imo, if you are going for a high FL output you are degrading your PQ of the VT50.

I would suggest you download AVS HD and look at the test patterns, look at the flashing bars is there any color or tint (like red or green) other than gray in any of the flashing bars.

ss

Added. You may want to check out the first link in my sig and compare the raw numbers (x,y and gamma) to the raw numbers (x,y and gamma) in your calibration. This will give you a pretty good Idea what the numbers should look like, also in Calman there should be target numbers that correspond to your actual numbers, look at that.
Edited by sillysally - 5/8/13 at 8:41pm
post #1769 of 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

Couldn't find any posts by SillySally that refer to this, can you post a link? Thanks.

Yes mo949 has the jest of what I said.

Understand that I only use my VT50 for Blu Ray movies.

imo, I only use reference settings for contrast, brightness and screen brightness for my VT50, are around 80 contrast, 49 brightness and mid screen brightness.
iow, once you start to change your settings outside of your display's performance/range ( try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear) you are going to degrade the performance of you display.

ss
post #1770 of 2130
SS,

With those settings, what's your peak white using which size and type pattern? 2% non APL?

What's your room lighting?
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