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Questions re: 65" Panasonic VT50 for 2012

post #1 of 38
5/14/12 at 10:41am
Thread Starter 
[Edited for clarity]

Hi Folks,

I'm new to the forum and brand-new to flat panel TVs. (Long story)

My wife and I decided to go plasma and decided on the Panasonic VT50 as a 55-inch model. Or so we thought. After a little more browsing we started wondering whether the 65" would be a good idea.

Our main question is performance. Our local Best Buy just put up both TVs this weekend in its Magnolia section. The 55" is every bit as wonderful as we'd heard. The 65" on the other hand left us wondering. The picture seemed washed out and the picture seemed a little fuzzy - even after we had a rep match settings to the 55" in the other room. Both TVs had been on the floor for approx. 24 hours, so burn in should have been equal. The Samsung PN64E8000 64' sitting next to the 65" VT50 had noticeably better color saturation and sharpness, although color was a little off. We didn't understand it, as theoretically the 65" VT50 should blow the doors off the Samsung plasma. The 65" VT50 was on the end, and there may have been some light from the rest of the BB store impacting saturation. But doubtful. Also we noticed the 55" VT50 ran a little hot, while the 65" VT50 was quite cool. (The Samsung 64" was way hot - you could have reheated food on it.)

Is picture quality better on the 55" VT50 than the 65" VT50, or between the 55" and 65" models of other manufacturers? Does the bigger screen mean picture quality is sacrificed? We're hoping the BB audition was a fluke, but for a $1,200 jump in price we'd like a reality check. Are 65" TVs harder to get right engineering-wise? Are pixels being spread just a little too wide? We don't want to spend the extra money unless we get the movie-theater experience *and* the sharp picture we saw on the 55".

I've searched for threads on these issues and still have questions.

Many thanks for your help, and thank you for all the great resources we'll be using to get the TV set up correctly!

--Scott

 

Viewing Distance Calculator.pdf 207.9111328125k . file
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post #2 of 38
5/14/12 at 10:45am
"...Blow the doors off.."? Hyperbole no?

I'm sure if you decide to get the vt50 (or the e8000 for that matter) in your home, let it cook for a min, then get it professionally calibrated you'll be fine.
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post #3 of 38
5/14/12 at 11:02am
Thread Starter 
Of course we wouldn't evaluate fully without a burn-in and professional calibration. But can we say the 55" and 65" are equal in performance before we spend $3,700 for a TV that may not perform as well after all is said and done?
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post #4 of 38
5/14/12 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

Of course we wouldn't evaluate fully without a burn-in and professional calibration. But can we say the 55" and 65" are equal in performance before we spend $3,700 for a TV that may not perform as well after all is said and done?

If you'll look in the VT50 thread you'll see a review of the 65" from a professional calibrator, Chad B.
Your questions should be answered.
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post #5 of 38
5/14/12 at 11:14am
I would wager that, if money is not an issue, you will not be disappointed with the 65"... But that's just me, bigger is usually better in this hobby, no? Also I did see somewhere people claiming the larger sets reaching slightly deeper black levels.

BB or Amazon give you a 30 day return policy,so let it run in for 1 week (100 or so hours) and see what you think...that gives you another 3 weeks to initiate a return and drop to the 55, or if you find that you're really disappointed I'll take it off your hands.

Just go for it!
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post #6 of 38
5/14/12 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

If you'll look in the VT50 thread you'll see a review of the 65" from a professional calibrator, Chad B.
Your questions should be answered.

Thanks for the tip. I searched through Chad's posts and found a review of the 65" VT50, but nothing comparing picture quality between the 55" and 65". I did just send him a PM, though - his approach to performance seems very practical and pragmatic.

Does a 65" sacrifice picture quality over a 55"? I can't seem to find answers after two days of searching AVS and other sites.
That is my central question, one I'm hoping can be answered.

I should mention we have the 55" on order from Amazon but have been considering getting the 65" instead. Hoping we can get some knowledgeable feedback today, so we can halt our delivery tomorrow.

--Scott
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post #7 of 38
5/14/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

.

does a 65" sacrifice picture quality over a 55"?


--scott

no
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post #8 of 38
5/14/12 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post


no

Well the bigger size on any display on a low resolution source will show the loss more so but I have the 65" and can say the only thing I haven't utterly enjoyed on the set is Netflix streaming which is no big surprise I think i may cancel it.
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post #9 of 38
5/14/12 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK View Post

Well the bigger size on any display on a low resolution source will show the loss more so but I have the 65" and can say the only thing I haven't utterly enjoyed on the set is Netflix streaming which is no big surprise I think i may cancel it.

I totally agree as I have an 80" Sharp and the quality on many sources are lacking.
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post #10 of 38
5/14/12 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK View Post

Well the bigger size on any display on a low resolution source will show the loss more so but I have the 65" and can say the only thing I haven't utterly enjoyed on the set is Netflix streaming which is no big surprise I think i may cancel it.

Netflix SD and HD ( to an extent sucks). Hell most streaming sources suck, even though it's HD it's still compressed material, and youre going to lose some detail.

Although eureka doesn't look too shabby on me Sammy
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post #11 of 38
5/14/12 at 12:51pm
It is possible that there was a problem with the feed for the 65" and/or that something wasn't actually turned on or off somewhere.
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post #12 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK View Post

Well the bigger size on any display on a low resolution source will show the loss more so but I have the 65" and can say the only thing I haven't utterly enjoyed on the set is Netflix streaming which is no big surprise I think i may cancel it.

What about DVDs? We have a decent-sized collection. Yes, we'll get stuff like Avatar on Blu-Ray but older or drama-type movies prob not.
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post #13 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

What about DVDs? We have a decent-sized collection. Yes, we'll get stuff like Avatar on Blu-Ray but older or drama-type movies prob not.

What player do you have?
If it is a good upscaling player it should do fine but the larger the display the more the flaws show.
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post #14 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:27pm
I watched DVDs on a 720p projector at 94" and was very happy with the results. Of course Blurays looked better, but it was never distracting enough that I felt cheated out of a better experience. I'd always choose the HD if it was available but DVD was and remains a kick ass tech.
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post #15 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:37pm
I know what your getting at here. Your worried moving up to that gigantic 65" will sacrifice too much sharpness for ya. Sharpness yes but details no. Just remember this... smaller will always be sharper but will lack the 'wow factor'. You'll never get an experience that has your jaw dropped on the floor like a bigger set with quality feed. So it is a sacrifice you need to make...but most around here will tell you it's a good one, which is why many are jumping on board (assuming they have the funds).
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post #16 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post


What about DVDs? We have a decent-sized collection. Yes, we'll get stuff like Avatar on Blu-Ray but older or drama-type movies prob not.

Again source related like previously mentioned a good player will scale it better that being said I have only watched two tv series on DVD so far and house looked good and an older season of alias didn't look as good but still definitely not shabby. I am currently playing it through a ps3 but am planning on either getting a Sony 790 or a panny 500 to function with my legacy receiver and 3d.
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post #17 of 38
5/14/12 at 1:56pm
If the 2012 50 series follows the path of the 2011 30s then the 65" will be a little better due to a lower Minimum Light Level. Lower MLL = better black level = higher contrast ratio = better image fidelity. Just don't sit closer than 1.5 * diagonal and you won't be disappointed. Enjoy your new 65VT50.
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post #18 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

I know what your getting at here. Your worried moving up to that gigantic 65" will sacrifice too much sharpness for ya. Sharpness yes but details no. Just remember this... smaller will always be sharper but will lack the 'wow factor'. You'll never get an experience that has your jaw dropped on the floor like a bigger set with quality feed. So it is a sacrifice you need to make...but most around here will tell you it's a good one, which is why many are jumping on board (assuming they have the funds).

There is no difference at correct viewing distances.
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post #19 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:20pm
Wonder if the settings of both panels were the same. Reason I'm saying this is because I was at a Pauls TV on Sat. and had the sales rep throw in a few blu ray movies (Star Trek, Pearl Harbor, etc..) and the 65 to me looked Bad (washed out /pixilation). When I told him this wasn't what I was expecting out a TV that's been getting great reviews. His response was well this is what you get.
This morning I went to a second Pauls' store (exchanging a speaker) and asked if they had the 65VT50, he said yes and walked me to it. Man, was I impressed nothing compared to the first one I saw. I must agree this is a very promising TV. Having previously owned the Kuros'141and 151, this is a set I'll be picking up in a month or two. So yes I would say the 65 does look as good as the 55.
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post #20 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

There is no difference at correct viewing distances.

Buzz, my post originally included a question about that, but I pulled it down. The viewing distance calc (linked from the AVS FAQ) gave some confusing answers. For 12.0 - 12.5 feet, would either size work?
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post #21 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by max1 View Post

Wonder if the settings of both panels were the same.

It would make no difference. Each and every TV off the assembly line is different. If they used military spec parts there would be no profit.
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post #22 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by max1 View Post

Wonder if the settings of both panels were the same.

Yes. We had a sales rep match the settings on the 65" to the 55", and still saw a difference.
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post #23 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

It would make no difference. Each and every TV off the assembly line is different.

Buzz, is there a thread on determining whether the TV you get is one of the better ones? Or do you need a professional calibrator to say "hey, this one wasn't build so well?"
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post #24 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

Buzz, my post originally included a question about that, but I pulled it down. The viewing distance calc (linked from the AVS FAQ) gave some confusing answers. For 12.0 - 12.5 feet, would either size work?

If this is reference to sharpness then yes. There are a plethora of sharpness threads in the calibration sub forum and if you are really bored and want to do some reading on the subject then have at it. Sharpness is basic stuff yet only a handful of forum members "get it".

If the reference is purely viewing distance versus screen size then it's another matter. There is lots of information over in "calibration" as well. If you haven't previously owned a 65" display, 12.0 - 12.5 feet will look wonderful and I know you'll be happy with it. It will take all of a few minutes to acclimate. I'm about to order a 65VT50 myself but the viewing distance will be closer to 15' - unfortunate but I have no choice because I want/need the black level. 7 months out of the year I watch a 75" LaserVue from 10 feet and it's, um, perfect for me. The 65VT50 is gonna subjectively look like I'm watching an iPad but C'est la vie.
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post #25 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

Buzz, is there a thread on determining whether the TV you get is one of the better ones? Or do you need a professional calibrator to say "hey, this one wasn't build so well?"

That's a good question. The 2012 ST, GT, and VT series are looking substantially better than the 2011 30 series displays. To check the VT50 against the rest of the best check out the two day webinaire this coming weekend at the Value Electronics store. In my opinion you can take all of the online and in print reviews and push them aside. Listen to three of the best calibrators in the world and find out just how good the VT50 is, or isn't.

In your home, get the free AVSHD calibration disc, read its patterns manual, and set your new TV up. If it doesn't look reasonably good your set might have a problem. Beyond what the disc can help you with there is the final third of calibration which includes Grayscale, Gamma, and Color Management. These can only be done with a meter and software.
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post #26 of 38
5/14/12 at 2:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Sharpness is basic stuff yet only a handful of forum members "get it".

I "get it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

If the reference is purely viewing distance versus screen size then it's another matter.

It was bad wording on my part but that's what I was referring to. With his viewing distance the 65" shouldn't be a problem.
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post #27 of 38
5/14/12 at 3:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

If this is reference to sharpness then yes. There are a plethora of sharpness threads in the calibration sub forum... Sharpness is basic stuff yet only a handful of forum members "get it".

If you haven't previously owned a 65" display, 12.0 - 12.5 feet will look wonderful and I know you'll be happy with it. It will take all of a few minutes to acclimate.

Excellent stuff - we just canceled the 55" order. Many, many thanks!!
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post #28 of 38
5/14/12 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

... check out the two day webinaire this coming weekend at the Value Electronics store... Listen to three of the best calibrators in the world and find out just how good the VT50 is, or isn't.

In your home, get the free AVSHD calibration disc, read its patterns manual, and set your new TV up. If it doesn't look reasonably good your set might have a problem. Beyond what the disc can help you with there is the final third of calibration which includes Grayscale, Gamma, and Color Management. These can only be done with a meter and software.

Really good to know. I will check out the webinar and will definitely get the AVSHD disc!! Excellent that AVS has put this together...
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post #29 of 38
5/14/12 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by soran123 View Post

Really good to know. I will check out the webinar and will definitely get the AVSHD disc!! Excellent that AVS has put this together...

I think AVS nixes many urls so if you PM me I'll pass along some places to go.
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post #30 of 38
6/26/12 at 4:20pm
I hope this is not off base. B1ut is the speaker in the panny 65vt50 able to be used as a center channel speaker as I have limited space.
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