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Abusers of plasma returns?

post #1 of 98
Thread Starter 
I keep noticing people talking about returning TV's, especially through Amazon. One guy tried like 10 TV's! Another one ordered two TV's and was going to send back the 'loser' (maybe send himself back - lol). Many posters talk about sending sets back instead of trying service calls.
Don't people realize this is going to end up costing us all money, and if Amazon smartens up perhaps even make them think about getting rid of their excellent return policy?
It just seems like people should have some ethics and deal honestly with these vendors.
post #2 of 98
Did you ever think that we're in the minority? Folks come here to talk about caveats and in general are obsessive compulsive about tvs. We as a whole are a drop in the bucket for Amazon.
post #3 of 98
Thread Starter 
No, for some of the retailers selling through Amazon we are not a drop in the bucket. And also the people on here talking about constantly swapping tv's are not the only ones abusing the return policy.
post #4 of 98
Your words ring true, my friend. Look at what the abuse of TV returns did for what used to be an excellent return policy from COSTCO?

As usual, it is the damnable, morally deficient few that end up costing the manjority, whether it be insurance scams, shoflifting, abuse of return policy, etc.
post #5 of 98
Then perhaps manufactures should improve their products, hmm?

I have no sympathy for stores or manufacturers. I've returned tons of stuff because of legitimate issues, and will continue to do so until quality control is improved. It's my money - it has to be well spent. If you're not picky - buy what you like and keep it, and enjoy the problems you may or may not know about.
post #6 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

No, for some of the retailers selling through Amazon

That's a different story. Sold by "some of the retailers" or through Amazon.com? In either case they're under no more pressure than any other company. It's a public service. If they drop it then I'm sure 'that they know' they will lose some business.
post #7 of 98
We're talking about Amazon and not Costco. Also quality control hasn't been worth a damn 'post 2000 China invaded market' so don't expect that to increase.
post #8 of 98
Thread Starter 
Sorry but I think anyone buying and returning 10 tv's or someone buying 2 tv's just to compare them is very unethical and is very similar to insurance fraud.
post #9 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

Sorry but I think anyone buying and returning 10 tv's or someone buying 2 tv's just to compare them is very unethical and is very similar to insurance fraud.

I returned my tv 4 times due to actual issues with the tv.
post #10 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

Sorry but I think anyone buying and returning 10 tv's or someone buying 2 tv's just to compare them is very unethical and is very similar to insurance fraud.

I agree with you. But the one returning 10 tv's may be just the only one in this planet earth. So dont worry. We're safe.
post #11 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

Sorry but I think anyone buying and returning 10 tv's or someone buying 2 tv's just to compare them is very unethical and is very similar to insurance fraud.

Firstly I agree with about this whole situation and the poster I think you're referring to actually had 8 TV's and kept the 9th one....which is still ridiculous. However I don't see why a person buying 2 TV's and comparing them in his/her home and returning the one that doesn't work for him necessarily a bad thing or unethical.
Now, I'm an insurance agent so I really don't see how any of these antics have any relevance to insurance fraud? What do you mean? How is any of this fraud?
post #12 of 98
Thread Starter 
The money spent on shipping and the extra costs for open boxes from people who are just 'experimenting' having multiple tv's delivered to their houses.

I know it's a weak argument with fraud but it's the point of people should be morally/ethically fair to the stores.
post #13 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

The money spent on shipping and the extra costs for open boxes from people who are just 'experimenting' having multiple tv's delivered to their houses.

I know it's a weak argument with fraud but it's the point of people should be morally/ethically fair to the stores.

So, you're all about dropping 3-5k and just "living with it" even if it doesn't work with your room setup, lighting, or has issues? Seems rather silly to me, especially if one of those tv's is a Samsung crapshoot buzzer.
post #14 of 98
Returning a display because of issues is fine. But there have been several posts of people "renting" TVs (buying one, knowing they are going to return it later when another model is available). I agree with the OP - this just drives up prices for all of us.
post #15 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Returning a display because of issues is fine. But there have been several posts of people "renting" TVs (buying one, knowing they are going to return it later when another model is available). I agree with the OP - this just drives up prices for all of us.

I agree
post #16 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Returning a display because of issues is fine. But there have been several posts of people "renting" TVs (buying one, knowing they are going to return it later when another model is available). I agree with the OP - this just drives up prices for all of us.

Yup
post #17 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by coyot2bagger View Post

So, you're all about dropping 3-5k and just "living with it" even if it doesn't work with your room setup, lighting, or has issues? Seems rather silly to me, especially if one of those tv's is a Samsung crapshoot buzzer.

Every TV set on the market "has issues." IMO, you just have to pick a set and "live with it" without expecting it to be perfect. Reading these forums, some define "research" as buying 3-4 TVs and using them all in home with the intention of returning all but one, which I think is wrong and taking advantage of retailers, be they B&M or online. If a TV has legitimate issues, or you find a flaw is too hard for you to live with, then I think by all means it should be returned. What I find ludicrous is the threads where people swap out 3+ of the same model to avoid issues that are pretty much inherent to a particular TV or technology, like trying to swap out Samsung plasma after Samsung plasma to find a "good" one that doesn't buzz or trying to find an edge LED that doesn't flashlight. After trying out the same set multiple times, I think you should take a hint and try something else.
post #18 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post


Every TV set on the market "has issues." IMO, you just have to pick a set and "live with it" without expecting it to be perfect. Reading these forums, some define "research" as buying 3-4 TVs and using them all in home with the intention of returning all but one, which I think is wrong and taking advantage of retailers, be they B&M or online. If a TV has legitimate issues, or you find a flaw is too hard for you to live with, then I think by all means it should be returned. What I find ludicrous is the threads where people swap out 3+ of the same model to avoid issues that are pretty much inherent to a particular TV or technology, like trying to swap out Samsung plasma after Samsung plasma to find a "good" one that doesn't buzz or trying to find an edge LED that doesn't flashlight. After trying out the same set multiple times, I think you should take a hint and try something else.

I returned mine 3 times cause the buzzing was so loud it could be heard when watching movies with the volume set to -10db on my avr. Completely unacceptable. My current set still buzzes but can't be heard when watching tv. Completely acceptable!
post #19 of 98
No offense implied, of course

I applaud your fortitude and tolerance for giving a TV so many chances. Me, well I simply don't have it...I get to 2 units and get fed up.
post #20 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frost147 View Post

Your words ring true, my friend. Look at what the abuse of TV returns did for what used to be an excellent return policy from COSTCO?

As usual, it is the damnable, morally deficient few that end up costing the manjority, whether it be insurance scams, shoflifting, abuse of return policy, etc.

Here, Here. I just purchased a Samsung PN60E7000 from Crutchfield.com. Before I made the buy, it took me 3 weeks of research, studying and going back and forth to 3 Best buy and 2 fry's electronics stores and the local Sears store to "See for myself" what the difference where in the different models, what the picture quality was and what features where available as opposed to what I wanted. I finally chose the Samsung because it has the best picture quality, I even put my ear on the panel to see if I could hear this buzzing that everybody complains about in Samsung plasma's so much. The buzzing appears to be coming the power board in the rear upper right-hand corner of the unit but it was not excessively noisy or irritating to me so I know exactly what I'm buying. If there are any legitimate defects then of course I'll return the unit but engaging in frivolous abuse of a online stores return policy will inevitably cost us all
post #21 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

Now, I'm an insurance agent so I really don't see how any of these antics have any relevance to insurance fraud? What do you mean? How is any of this fraud?

It is literally criminal fraud in many cases because a lot of stores spell out right in their return policy that it is unacceptable to purchase with the intent to return. Best Buy definitley had this in their policy way back in the 90's due to people renting Playstations all month, then returning them to pay their bills, then picking up another one the next week, and doing the same over and over. I'm not sure which retailers have this in their policys, but I'd bet the majority do.
post #22 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzt41j View Post

The money spent on shipping and the extra costs for open boxes from people who are just 'experimenting' having multiple tv's delivered to their houses.

I know it's a weak argument with fraud but it's the point of people should be morally/ethically fair to the stores.

Yeah there's no sort of fraud with this, but if you're not aware you should know that it's not as cut and dry as you think. Now of course it depends on the online store you're dealing with but for example, I bought a Samsung UN55D7000 from Tiger Direct and this was my first HDTV. After delivery I wasn't happy with the design of an LCD and wanted a Plasma. I called TigerDirect and they were very nice and honored my return however I had to pay the full shipping charges for the TV, Blu-Ray and the 3D glasses upon sending them back so I was at a loss in order to find myself the TV that I wanted.

I don't think most companies will pay the return shipping charges and take back an open TV.

I definitely get your point, I don't like people that abuse store policies either, it's very arrogant but in this situation with a person buying 2 TV's and returning one of them is not terribly severe. Maybe stores should return back to requiring restocking fees to help prevent such customer antics.
post #23 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD70GUY View Post

It is literally criminal fraud in many cases because a lot of stores spell out right in their return policy that it is unacceptable to purchase with the intent to return. Best Buy definitley had this in their policy way back in the 90's due to people renting Playstations all month, then returning them to pay their bills, then picking up another one the next week, and doing the same over and over. I'm not sure which retailers have this in their policys, but I'd bet the majority do.

Are you really serious about this??? Show me where it says exactly that from any store. No store will ever know the real reasons why a customer returns their merchandise so for a store to say in their return policy that such behavior is "unacceptable" is ridiculous. Keep in mind, if a store allows the return that's on them, don't blame the customer.

BTW, there's nothing fraudulent about a customer buying a product with the intent to return it. And let's all be honest about it, everyone here at some point either has thought about it or did it. In fact there's nothing fraudulent in regards to customer antics in what you wrote in your post. Everybody is a lawyer.
post #24 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

Are you really serious about this??? Show me where it says exactly that from any store. No store will ever know the real reasons why a customer returns their merchandise so for a store to say in their return policy that such behavior is "unacceptable" is ridiculous. Keep in mind, if a store allows the return that's on them, don't blame the customer.

BTW, there's nothing fraudulent about a customer buying a product with the intent to return it. And let's all be honest about it, everyone here at some point either has thought about it or did it. In fact there's nothing fraudulent in regards to customer antics in what you wrote in your post. Everybody is a lawyer.


Of coarse I'm serious. Most stores make you sign for returns, that signature is a contract. If you break that contract it is criminal fraud. Proving intent in court is a different matter altogether. The vast majority of crimes go unpunished because of burdon of proof and that's a good thing, but it doesn't change the law.

Like I said though I'm not sure who has this policy, Best Buy got rid of it. I personally when I was younger tried to abuse it once and got called out. I was on vacation for the summer and didn't want to pack my playstation so I bought another on vacation with the intent to return it. I was open about why I was returning it and got denied at two locations. Most retailers have laxed their policies not tightened them due to internet shopping so this may not be a very common policy any more.
post #25 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

However I don't see why a person buying 2 TV's and comparing them in his/her home and returning the one that doesn't work for him necessarily a bad thing or unethical.

What would you think would happen top the returned TV? It can't legally be sold as new and has to be sold as 'B' stock - at a reduced price. The margins on consumer electronics are razor thin so the returned TV will most likely be sold at a loss. Multiply that out by a number of people doing the same and you either have a bankrupt business or higher retail margins to compensate. Either way, someone loses.
post #26 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyv2 View Post

Then perhaps manufactures should improve their products, hmm?

I have no sympathy for stores or manufacturers. I've returned tons of stuff because of legitimate issues, and will continue to do so until quality control is improved. It's my money - it has to be well spent. If you're not picky - buy what you like and keep it, and enjoy the problems you may or may not know about.

Legitimate returns for a truly defective or problematic tv is certainly justified. But returning it because you didn't get the panel you wanted or the game lag was too long because you wanted that 55" plasma to be your main gaming platform is just not right. And the rest of the consumers will eventually pay for thoughtless returning of tv's etc by tightened return policies.
post #27 of 98
Only a knuckle-dragging idiot would begin to take issue with the OP's point which is of course dead-on accurate.

There are so many hundreds of resources- never mind brick and mortar stores- available to the consumer today that engaging in such selfish, moronic, behavior this like would only be considered by the lowest common denominator.

Those who actually go through with said behavior somehow manage to dwell within an even lower sub-genre who undoubtedly engage in other activities that help propel a shocking portion of our society closer to moral bankruptcy.

But yeah, it's not against the law so go with it.

Any neanderthal can circumvent the reasonable tenets of decency and righteousness...it's those significantly down the timeline that recognize their intrinsic worth and really, their essentiality to a good, modern, society.

James
post #28 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HD70GUY View Post

Of coarse I'm serious. Most stores make you sign for returns, that signature is a contract. If you break that contract it is criminal fraud. Proving intent in court is a different matter altogether. The vast majority of crimes go unpunished because of burdon of proof and that's a good thing, but it doesn't change the law.

I cannot understand why that is a "criminal fraud"? A return is a return. Once a store accepts a return, what constitutes that return a criminal act?
post #29 of 98
People have left out the retailers who only have a 2 week return policy. Or those who say there is a large restocking fee. Only to resell the tv for maybe $50 off praying on the sucker thinking they are getting a deal.

Or how about the maker of tv. Charging more for less features Less not FORGET about that this year?
post #30 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Only a knuckle-dragging idiot would begin to take issue with the OP's point which is of course dead-on accurate.

There are so many hundreds of resources- never mind brick and mortar stores- available to the consumer today that engaging in such selfish, moronic, behavior this like would only be considered by the lowest common denominator.

Those who actually go through with said behavior somehow manage to dwell within an even lower sub-genre who undoubtedly engage in other activities that help propel a shocking portion of our society closer to moral bankruptcy.

But yeah, it's not against the law so go with it.

Neanderthals.

James

I agree James, but I admit I have bad habits and so does everyone. All in all this is a much smaller issue that people who drive large empty SUV's long distances to work everyday or plant non-native grass species they have to empty the aquafer to keep green. I know plenty of otherwise good people who obstinantly refuse to change those habits, but I don't (ok I try not to) hate them for it. Everyone has their own moral compass, and most reasonable people have one that is ever evolving. Just letting people know their actions affects others negatively is the first and most important thing to starting change.
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