JVC HD250 vs Panasonic AE7000

You have to decide how important gaming is, the JVC can still be gamed with, it's just that multiplayer or lag-sensitive games will suffer more. I would go with a refurbished JVC RS-40 B-stock from AVS, it will beat both of them.

If you like CFI, I would look at the Sony hw30 then or even the Epson 5010. Personally I would avoid the Panasonic in most cases.

Coder, when you say b stock from avs...do you mean av science? Sorry new to this.

Yes, AVSCIENCE often has some B-stocks, but also VisualApex.com gets some in as do other dealers on occassion.

The Epson is far better in 3D and 2D than the Panny, it has higher Native On/Off contrast, much brighter best modes (and a brighter torch mode), and it appears to generally be sharper and more reliable (fewer issues). The Panny is mainly only if you are looking for CIH, but in that case I'd actually choose the JVC RS-45. The Panny probably ghosts less than the JVC, but not enough less for me to want to buy it. If you are looking for a PJ to do good at both 2d/3d, the Epson 5010 and the Sony hw30 are the best bets.

if you dont care for 3d you should get either a Panny 4000 or Epson 8700ub refurb. They are hard to find but they pop up from time to time. To me they are the best bang for the buck if you don't care for 3d or you are not a black level snob. Plus the JVC's are notorious for early bulb failure. I've seen a poll on this website that had early failure at a ridiculous 30%. So if you are a heavy user (1000+ hours a year) I'd think twice before you buy a JVC and need to plunk down $400 multiple times a year to buy bulbs.

IMO the difference in black levels/contrast between some of the best LCD's and the lower level JVC's is overrated. Personally I've seen the RS40 vs the Epson 8700 and I can't hardly tell the difference in black levels/contrast. The same with the Panny4000, very close to the JVC's. I will say that the JVC was in a light walled room with 100% light control and the LCD's were in bat caves.

If you can see the JVC/Epson in action that would be the best (which is very hard to do). Just don't believe people who say the JVC's totally demolish the best LCD's. For a normal human its just not true.

For gaming I can't recommend the HD250. I've seen motion blur from just a normal NBA game on tv. I can't imagine how bad it is with fast video games.
Edited by sog35 - 6/12/12 at 10:13am

LMAO..there are a lot of us abnormal humans running around.
In a controlled environment..I could easily prove you wrong on those differences.

VisualApex has refurb 8700ub's in stock.

there is a difference in black levels but for normal humans it won't be a huge gap.
For most humans the burden of paying $400 for bulbs every 6 months outweights the slightly better black levels of the JVC.(although the Epson has its history of early bulb failure too)
For me it was much easier to see the difference in motion artifacts apparent lack of sharpness on the JVC than the lack of black levels on the Epson.

I've owned my unit for 7 months, I haven't bought the first lamp. The Epsons are no better at motion than the JVCs. If you're concerned with motion buy a DLP.

the Panny has far better motion than the JVC for gaming. 7 months and how many hours? 7 months isn't very long.

I log 1500-2000 hours a year (projector is my regular tv)

You just said we owners would buy lamps every 6 months..I'm not planning to buy a lamp for at least a year if at all. I've owned 4 projectors. I haven't used one long enough to buy a lamp. Lets see how the new lamps of the JVC play out before we completely discount how long they will last.
My Benq w1000 is what I would use for regular TV. I don't watch enough TV to log those kind of hours even on a Flat panel..I work too much. This may be true about the Panny being better for games. It's also not that great contrast wise either. Of course you'll tell me their really really close. Not a chance in hell of that being the truth.

lol. Calm down bro. I'm just going by a poll on this site that has premature lamp failure for JVC projectors at 30%. That is beyond ridiculous. Maybe you are the not part of the unlucky 30% but who knows. For myself I have never had my lamp die on me either ( 4 years with 4805, and 4 years with Mitsu HC4900). I just don't buy all the hype about how much better the low level JVC's are compared to the best LCD's. To me the room environment is even more important than the projector itself. Yes, if you can have a true batcave in your home and have professional calibration you will probably unlock the real power of the JVC's black levels. But for most normal humans that won't happen.

In a normal home with light colored walls, some ambient light, and a white screen the JVC just does not justify its high cost of operation in my opinion. Like I said, I've seen both projectors in person. If you show a normal person the JVC and then the LCD I bet they won't even know the difference in black levels. You would probably have to fast forward to that one scene in the movie that lasts a few seconds that you can actually tell a BIG difference. But if you are a gamer or you like CFI you will be able to instantly tell the difference between the JVC and the Panasonic. The JVC just cannot keep up and will be loaded with artifacts or slow reaction time.

No projector is the best for everyone. I'm just bringing a reasonable viewpoint to those who think in their average room (light walls ect) that the JVC will be 100x better than the LCD's. Its just not true for a normal human.

I totally agree with you on different strokes for different folks. And I'm very calm, I apologize if it was taken the wrong way. I don't have a true bat cave and the differences are obvious.
Check this out. Both of these images are taken in the same room on the same screen. If the camera can see the difference, you should be able to.
These are two different projectors. This isn't an exact science. But the projector with the haze over the image, is also the projector with a much lower contrast ratio.
If you had the projectors in the same room at the same time. I believe you'd change your ideas. Look at the boy's jacket in the center of the photo.




Edited by Joesyah - 6/13/12 at 5:55pm

dont understand the two pictures. The first picture looks more natural, something like real life. Is the 2nd picture suppose to be better?

I forgot that some folks monitors can make it difficult to see the difference in the pics. You must use a standard LCD monitor? You probably have a difficult time distinguishing the two photos.
Or if your monitor isn't calibrated, you may not see the difference either. On the proper display, the top pic is washed out quite a bit. It's not natural at all.
Edited by Joesyah - 6/14/12 at 8:16am

that makes sense. I've watched many hours on the Panny and i've never thought the image was ever washed out. In fact for the panny I needed to tone it down since on 'normal' mode the colors/image was too dynamic that it looked fake.

Yes I've done that as well. I'm not saying your projector is washed out. If you had another projector with much higher native to compare in your room. You could see where that higher native pays off instantly. It's not about being a normal human. It's more about knowing what to look for.

I have a good friend with the Epson 8350 in a complete bat cave. No amount of room treatments or paint can make his 8350 look like a JVC in black levels and contrast in my non dedicated room with light color walls.

The difference is actually pretty staggering. 2000:1 native vs 45,000:1 native is substantial.
Edited by Joesyah - 6/14/12 at 8:23am

i agree with the assessment of the 8350 vs JVC. No contest.

But you need to keep in mind that the dynamic iris of the LCD's do make a difference too. With the iris in my experience the Panny/Epson can have very simular black levels as the JVC on 80-90% movie scenes. I'm sure if you point out a few specific scenes from specific movies there will be signficant differences. But normal people don't do that. Watching the entire Dark Knight movie the difference between the JVC vs Panny was just not that great. In fact on light scenes I thought the Panny looked sharper and more dynamic.

My point is you really need to see both in the same room. That's the only way you'll understand where I'm coming from. My last projector used a Dynamic Iris. It actually had better contrast than the AE4000. It did great in the bright scenes and mixed scenes. Once you hit those late afternoon to darker scenes, there was no comparison. And no amount of DI can make up the ground for low native contrast. I have hundreds of movies here. 95% of them look better on a projector with higher native contrast.

interesting. So when you screen is totally black or if the movie has black bars can you see the shadow of your hand when you do shadow puppets on the JVC? I did this for the Panny and yes the shadow was darker than the black bar but not by much.

Yes I can still see shadow puppets on the JVC. It's not the all black screen I would worry about. A dynamic Iris can be programed to close all the way down leaving no light hitting the screen. Movies aren't all black. It's the scenes where both whites and blacks exist together. The Iris has to open in order to accommodate the image with the colors other than black. The JVCs don't have to do this. The whites of the image are just as bright on the dark scenes of a JVC as they are in the mid to bright scenes. It won't be the same for a projector that uses a DI. In those darker scenes the lighter areas are subdued a bit. Because the Iris is trying to give you decent blacks while maintaining white levels. Something has to give in order to achieve one or the other. If a projector has high native from the start and equipped with a DI. The DI won't have to work as hard or subdue those whites as much to maintain a dynamic image. Don't get me wrong if I get another projector with a DI. I would certainly use it. It's a double edged sword. You can't have both dark and bright objects on the same scene without having a negative affect using a DI.

Play a movie like Tron Legacy. Use it with your DI on and then turn your DI off. You'll notice the colors/blues/reds /whites are much brighter with the DI off. This is the difference between JVCs and just about every other projector out there. Those colors will be just as bright while still maintaining black levels.

thanks for the explanation. Now i need to go to my friends house again and see the JVC in action again

Although you can see shadow puppets on the JVC even at 12 fL calibrated, it's pretty mild hand puppets at that. Some IRIS's in dynamic mode on a plain black screen can get close to not showing shadow puppets, but they are still there.

Mounting the PJ farther back and keeping the IRIS at -15 will help that as it increases contrast.

ok, i saw the RS40 at my friends house again. I saw a couple nightlight scenes (dark scenes with bright lights). It was nice but I still could not see a significant difference between the RS40 and Panny AE4000. Maybe I'm just blind. I also noticed that the black bars seemed a bit darker than the AE4000 by not by much.

Its weird because with audio I can tell right away the difference between a $200 subwoofer and a $500 one.

It's hard to tell if you don't compare the right content. Try a darkish space scene or any really dark scene. Also it will depend on the calibration and brightness of each projector as to if your eye is perceiving the correct difference. The JVC has more contrast.

The movie in question was Dark Knight. I figured anything movie with the word Dark in it would be pretty dark, and it was. Again I could tell some difference in contrast during night scenes but it wasn't a huge difference.

Well you can't really compare 2 projectors that don't have equalized calibrations.
I assure you the difference is there and very easily seen in a split-screen for certain content, but darker blacks are only going to be visible in specific scenes.

The JVC is much brighter than the Panny in Best Mode, that is an even bigger difference than just the black levels. The Panny struggles with brightness in a severe way when trying to maintain accurate color, but the JVC does have screwy lamps. If you cannot see much advantage, then I would just buy the Panny.