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Win7 Machine Just Stopping - Very Weird - Need Guidance

post #1 of 36
5/18/12 at 6:35am
Thread Starter 
Hi All...

Well, look at me, asking the community for help. Hey, we all need help sometimes.

Here is my issue that I am seeking guidance on.

MB = Gigabyte GA-880GM-D2H
Processor = AMD 6 Core (Forget the name off hand.)
RAM = 8 GIG
OS = Win7

Issue: Machine just stops responding at random times. I mean, just stops. Screen freezes and that's it. Need to hit reset.

This machine is used for automated tasks only such as home security camera recording (Blue-Iris), CrashPlan blacking up of a unRAID NAS, weather reporting (Davis System) and a few other things. So it is not like I am working on it etc. It just runs.

I have also had happen to me a few times that when I go to reset the machine, when it goes to reset, it powers off. (Yes, I hit the reset button.) The only way to turn it on again is to power off the PSU on the back and unplug it. Then after a few seconds, plug it back in, power on, and then power on the PC. Boots up just fine.

I have also had the same above power issue when telling Win7 to restart. It will power off when it goes to restart.

I have turning off programs that are running (Programs I have never seemed to be an issue mind you.) And even have left the system screen up showing the programs that are using CPU, Memory, even Disk so I can see if maybe something was running crazy on RAM, CPU or anything at the time in locks. Looking at that on the screen after it locks, nothing looks strange or out of what I would expect.

So, I am left, I think with hardware. But what part? PSU? Motherboard? CPU? (Though the fan seems fine on the CPU)

Has anyone run into this in the past and can give me a direction or anything to try?

Thanks all.
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post #2 of 36
5/18/12 at 7:38am
Have you installed any new software recently?
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post #3 of 36
5/18/12 at 7:42am
Personally I would start by pulling memory and run with just one stick, if it still happens, swap sticks. At least this part of the diag. is free.

Need one more bit of info...is the OS on an SSD?
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post #4 of 36
5/18/12 at 7:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Have you installed any new software recently?

Nope. All software has been running together for some time. Blue-Iris gets updates, but I have even turned it off just to see and still the issue comes back.

I can run a for 1 day or 3 without issue. It just happens. Very weird.
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post #5 of 36
5/18/12 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieTheater View Post

Personally I would start by pulling memory and run with just one stick, if it still happens, swap sticks. At least this part of the diag. is free.

Not a bad thought. I will try that. May not have a result for a few days based on how it happens. Then if it happens, I will have to wait to see if it then happens with the other stick. Thus time will tell. But nice thought.

What about a memory tester? Anything I can run in that regard vs a wait and see?

I am leaning towards PSU based on the reboot or reset and it powers off and I need to pull the power to reset the PSU. Not sure a MB could make for such an issue with a PSU. ???
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post #6 of 36
5/18/12 at 7:53am
memtest 86+ will check your RAM for you. Might not pick it up in the first run and can actually need to be run for many hours. You load it on a CD and reboot so it runs outside of Win7.
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post #7 of 36
5/18/12 at 8:13am
Sammy2 beat me to it, memtest is a good tool but it takes the machine out of commission while its running so you would lose security recording.

If you decide to pull the case apart, you could take a peek inside the PSU and look for any popped, swollen or leaking capacitors. Its a sure sign of PSU failure.
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post #8 of 36
5/18/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

memtest 86+ will check your RAM for you. Might not pick it up in the first run and can actually need to be run for many hours. You load it on a CD and reboot so it runs outside of Win7.

+1

The dreaded "kinda" problem is notoriously a memory issue and more than likely your solution - run Memtest first.

How old is your hardware?

Did the PSU come with the case (usually cheap and poor quality) or was it bought separate?

If your PSU is less than 4 years old and from a quality manufacture, and memtest didn't find an issue, you can run the below to stress the CPU and memory.

Intel CPU stress test: (http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/...BurnTest.shtml)

and/or

Prime 95 here is the 64bit version:
(http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=205)

These will also find memory errors.

If these tests return no issues, then I would suspect the motherboard or PSU and it's difficult to conclusively diagnose either.

Good luck!
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post #9 of 36
5/18/12 at 8:18am
Sounds like memory to me as well
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post #10 of 36
5/18/12 at 8:53am
Thread Starter 
I built the system in May of last year. Found the parts list...

Gigabyte GA-880GM-D2H Mobo
AMD Phenom II X6 1090T BE CPU
Corsair 4GB DDR3 RAM x2
Seagate 1TB HDD
Thermaltake V3 Black Edition Case
Ultra LSP 550W PSU
EVGA 01G-P3-N959-TR GeForce 9500 GT
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post #11 of 36
5/18/12 at 9:39am
Which Corsair RAM model?

I had two sticks of Corsair RAM go south on me a few months back and it took the OS with it when it went as some swap files got corrupted.
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post #12 of 36
5/18/12 at 9:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Which Corsair RAM model?

I had two sticks of Corsair RAM go south on me a few months back and it took the OS with it when it went as some swap files got corrupted.

Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9 Vengeance Desktop Memory Module - 4GB, PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 240-pin DIMM, 1.5V, CL9, Non-ECC, Unbuffered
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post #13 of 36
5/18/12 at 12:21pm
Thread Starter 
So far 2 passes of memtest 86+ and no errors. How long do I need this to run to be sure.
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post #14 of 36
5/18/12 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
Got though 3 memtest 86+ tests without an issue.

Now running Prime 95 to see if anything happens.
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post #15 of 36
5/18/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Corsair CMZ4GX3M1A1600C9 Vengeance Desktop Memory Module - 4GB, PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 240-pin DIMM, 1.5V, CL9, Non-ECC, Unbuffered

That's not the same module I had go bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

So far 2 passes of memtest 86+ and no errors. How long do I need this to run to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Got though 3 memtest 86+ tests without an issue.

Now running Prime 95 to see if anything happens.

Some people say 24 hours, but when I tested mine with it, I had almost instant errors. It seems you've been running it since this morning so 3hours? That's probably long enough. It might be starting to look like the PSU.
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post #16 of 36
5/18/12 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Got though 3 memtest 86+ tests without an issue.

Now running Prime 95 to see if anything happens.

As others have already mentioned you likely have a Memory issue, but while your testing these, wouldn't hurt to check your PSU, Board Power connector and CPU for overheating. Do you have one of those handhel IR temp testers?
(I assume you're using speedtest)
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post #17 of 36
5/18/12 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
Hi...

I have run each of the tests mention and have not yet seen any issues. I even turned on my MB monitor and looked at the voltage and CPU temp. I was not able to get the CPU to get above 68C running the stress test on now the cores at once.

Now the voltage is a question as the vCore Volts I see usually around 1.5v but sometimes I see it drop as low as 1.25v and then it goes back up within a few seconds. So I then thought, let me watch the core voltage and then turn on the stress test thinking I should see it drop and then go back up when I kick the test into action. Nope...did not drop off the 1.5v. Only after the test was running for 15 sounds or so did I see it drop to like 1.35v. But the lowest I had seen was the 1.25v without the test running.

Not sure this says anything as I am not sure if the core voltage should be flux or not. But wanted to toss it out their.

I had run the memory test for 3.5 hours and it ran 4 tests with no failures.

At this point I am still at a loss but feeling better about the RAM and CPU currently. But as I mentioned above, this concerns me...

Quote:


I have also had happen to me a few times that when I go to reset the machine, when it goes to reset, it powers off. (Yes, I hit the reset button.) The only way to turn it on again is to power off the PSU on the back and unplug it. Then after a few seconds, plug it back in, power on, and then power on the PC. Boots up just fine.

I have also had the same above power issue when telling Win7 to restart. It will power off when it goes to restart.
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post #18 of 36
5/18/12 at 4:36pm
I HATE intermittant problems. Yet with all the tests you're running, one would think you would have found it by now. Is the 'puter easy to get to where you can pop the lid and check

1) abnormally hot PSU (by touch or direct reading)

2) RAM thermally unseating? Pull the stick and re-insert, listening for the "click" of the retainer.

3) CPU fan power cord or another wire impeeding fan.

4) Unlikely, but the Board Power plug not fully seated.

5) Another unlikly issue, but capacitors on the MOBO bulging

Bear in mind I'm a schmuck on these things, All of the issues above except the capacitors usually show up in the first day or two of operation.
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post #19 of 36
5/18/12 at 4:58pm
Could be dust bunny's behind the board, take it outside and blow it out.
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post #20 of 36
5/18/12 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
Ok Guys...Tomorrow I will open it up and check all the areas mentioned and see where we go.

Right now I have the system monitor up so I can see the programs using the CPU and RAM. I also have the MB info screen up showing power. If the system locks, I still the the screen I can see so I can see if anything shows weird. I had done this part already except for the power. So if locked I am wondering what the CPU voltage reading will be.

Thanks...I will report back after work with it tomorrow.
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post #21 of 36
5/19/12 at 4:57am
Some (Intel) boards have Vdroop normally which doesn't affect stability unless OC'ed.

Definitely clean out as much dust as you can...mobo, psu, HSF's, the works.

OCCT makes a good PSU stress tester.

some info on hexa Phenom failures here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1524927
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post #22 of 36
5/20/12 at 7:44am
Thread Starter 
Hi All...

Ok, cleaned things up yesterday at about 11am ET. Found a dead bee that in system and got behind the MB where it died. Not sure if would make for an issue, but surely it maybe could. Still not sure HOW the bee got in. System is in a rack in the basement.

I reseated the memory and the main power to the MB. Also was sure to air dust everything. I also looks into the PSU and did not see any popped caps that I could see looking though the vents on the top and side. I can see the entire board more or less based on the LARGE fan that takes the entire top of the case. Not saying their may not be one...but I did take a look without opening the case. Also looked at the MB. The caps on this board are differnt looking but still did not notice anything strange.

So, now it is a waiting game. It has not yet been 24 hours but was random as it was and sometimes took 3 days to see it. (Just when I thought I was out of the woods sort of thing. )

Recap... Ran a memory test for 3.5 hours that did not show anything. I ran a CPU stress test for about 2.5 hours again not showing anything. I did see voltage changes that went from 1.25v to 1.5v on the CPU. But looking further into that, if I tuned off everything that was running, the voltage dropped to 1.24v. Turning on the stress test or even the Blue-Iris camera monitor would bring it back up to 1.5v. So, I think it autos adjusts the voltage based on CPU needs.
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post #23 of 36
5/20/12 at 11:32am
Good work David! That little Bee could cause intermittent grounding especially on warm days when there is a lot of static. Now that you have debugged the system (literally) and checked for all the other stuff I'd say your good to go, only thing left would be cables.

Good Luck!
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post #24 of 36
5/21/12 at 6:23am
I can tell from experience that a memory tester, such as MemTest86+, WILL NOT FIND ALL ERRORS!!! You're best bet is to swap the memory (if you can) to test.

I have numerous examples of random lockups/blue screens all caused by faulty RAM not showing errors but I will give you my latest, personal, example.... A few months ago after never having a blue screen in over 1 year of having my new build, I started to get some (they were always random errors that I knew weren't the root cause). They got worse over the course of a couple months going from once every few weeks to every day or so. I tested the RAM with 1 stick, 2 sticks, different banks, etc. Not a single error after running sometimes for almost 48 hours in different configs. I was finally able to get my hands on some extra RAM to swap out and I didn't have a blue screen since. RMA'd the RAM and the pair is again working without a single blue screen.

DON'T OVERLOOK THE RAM!!!
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post #25 of 36
5/21/12 at 6:53am
Thread Starter 
Still no lockup at this time. If I do, I will surely swap the RAM and see where we go from that point.

Just a note...It is not a BLUE SCREEN, it is just a stop. The screen is left wherever it was when it stopped. It is just fully locked up.

Still think it is strange that sometimes when I press RESET or tell the the system to RESTART, the PSU powers down and I can not restart it unless I unplug it.

But right now...still running. Does not mean anything yet thought.
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post #26 of 36
5/21/12 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Still no lockup at this time. If I do, I will surely swap the RAM and see where we go from that point.

Just a note...It is not a BLUE SCREEN, it is just a stop. The screen is left wherever it was when it stopped. It is just fully locked up.

Still think it is strange that sometimes when I press RESET or tell the the system to RESTART, the PSU powers down and I can not restart it unless I unplug it.

But right now...still running. Does not mean anything yet thought.

I know this sounds wierd, but how conductive was that dead bee? Enough to essentially make it a resistor? You probably just tossed it but if the problem goes away, you MIGHT want to check around the case to see how it got in, and then block it. I have a few computers in the observatory, and use the black foam from Home Depot sold for Air Conditioner filters.
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post #27 of 36
5/22/12 at 12:54am
You've found the real reason behind Colony Collapse Disorder -- motherboards. Monsanto will reward you for this info.
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post #28 of 36
5/22/12 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Still no lockup at this time. If I do, I will surely swap the RAM and see where we go from that point.

Just a note...It is not a BLUE SCREEN, it is just a stop. The screen is left wherever it was when it stopped. It is just fully locked up.

Still think it is strange that sometimes when I press RESET or tell the the system to RESTART, the PSU powers down and I can not restart it unless I unplug it.

But right now...still running. Does not mean anything yet thought.

I had this same issue, and did all the same tests, with results like yours. In my case, the PC would restart randomly without a blue screen. I even had that "out of the woods" feeling at times. Swapping RAM fixed it for me for good. It can cause some odd problems and not show any problems on memtest.
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post #29 of 36
5/22/12 at 6:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSalita View Post

You've found the real reason behind Colony Collapse Disorder -- motherboards. Monsanto will reward you for this info.

Hummm....Very lost on this one.
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post #30 of 36
5/22/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bott View Post

Hummm....Very lost on this one.

Dead bees.
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