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Beyond Blu-ray - Page 2

post #31 of 58
5/22/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Amazing how people are fascinated by new tech, even if the human eye can't tell the difference. Like people that sit in their living rooms, 15 feet from a 42" flat panel that they bought 4 years ago. They HAD to have 1080p because that was the "best", but what the marketing and sales guy didn't tell them is that their eyes won't be able to tell the difference in 720p and 1080p in their situation, and yet a LOT of sub 50" 1080p sets were sold.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for "better", but 4K isn't it. Not for the home. I mean, in order to get an image big enough to really notice, you are dealing with front projection, and I would rather have them work on brighter, higher contrast projectors than pumping more and smaller pixels at us.

Like others have said, 1080p is "mainstream" due to a number of factors. 4K won't be so lucky.

The early adopters for 4K will be those with deep enough pockets to purchase a large enough projection screen to see the difference.

Plus, do you think it's an accident that flat panel makers are pushing towards ever-larger displays? It's certainly not to make 1080p look better, because it doesn't. They're planning for 4K. Right now.
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post #32 of 58
5/22/12 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thorr View Post

What's "Blue-ray" ???

Blue-ray is a form of medium. Just like a diskette or zip drive.

If I am watching 1080p or 1920 x 1080, that is HD.

You dont need a blue ray drive to watch HD movies either.
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post #33 of 58
5/22/12 at 10:01pm
Are you kiding 4K?

I go to people homes and they stil lhave the damn cable box set to 1080i

Then you try and explain the whole HD thing and set the box to 720p and they still think 1080i is better....Well its a higher number ight LOL.

Lets get the 1080p thing to be more mainstream then worrie about 4k in the home...its fine for the commercial theater because right now most commerical theaters suck. We can do so much more in the home and its more or less just wait for the blueray to come out then go to the movies. So let them do 4K in the commercial theater.

Then you have the whole 3D thing people are trying to wrap thier heads around.
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post #34 of 58
5/23/12 at 3:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gimpy2k7 View Post

Not caring and not having 5 or 10 thousand bucks to drop on a new system ever couple of years are 2 completely different things. As long as people make "new technology" unaffordable to the masses...it's not going to pick up. Should be common sense.

Not sure what your point is. Like the other member has said, 98% of the population just don't care, regardless of price. I still go into homes where CRT and DVD players rule. MOST people just simply don't care about this sort of thing.
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post #35 of 58
5/23/12 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chong67 View Post

Blue-ray is a form of medium. Just like a diskette or zip drive.

If I am watching 1080p or 1920 x 1080, that is HD.

You dont need a blue ray drive to watch HD movies either.

I think you missed his sarcasm. It's "blu-ray", not "blue-ray".
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post #36 of 58
5/23/12 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

I think you missed his sarcasm. It's "blu-ray", not "blue-ray".

hahaha .. I miss that.

I think all the company are doing 1080i. Is there any 1080p streaming out there?
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post #37 of 58
5/23/12 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic C View Post

Are you kiding 4K?

I go to people homes and they stil lhave the damn cable box set to 1080i

Then you try and explain the whole HD thing and set the box to 720p and they still think 1080i is better....Well its a higher number ight LOL.

1080i is better if that is what the content is broadcasted in, ideally your cable box would just passthrough whatever resolution it was broadcasted in and the TV would scale it. That or you have good enough video processing in the box you can just set it to 1080p and let the box do all the video processing.

1080i when de-interlaced does provide better picture quality than 720p just at a reduction of maximum frame rate, 30fps vs 60fps.
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post #38 of 58
5/25/12 at 1:25pm
In less then 5 years he'll be eating his words about 4K.. no doubt about it. In fact, in 5 years they will probably be talking 12K on some new format we cant even imagine now. I'm an old school IT guy and I remember my C++ professor telling me that Intel would never create a chip faster the the Pentium 100mhz since it already could fry an egg. My first computer ram chip was 64K (512,000 dots) and now 25 years later I have a 64 gig micro SD card chip (512,000,000,000 dots that represent a + or -) that's smaller then my pinky nail.
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post #39 of 58
5/25/12 at 5:39pm
The problem is that you do not want 4K instead of 2K. What you really want is "more K", and there is no technology that will satisfy the desire for "more" regardless of what you already have.
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post #40 of 58
5/25/12 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Your statement is false - the Asian region gets the best of the best FIRST and long before N. America/Europe and they have tested successfully Super HiVision for four years now and in partnership to do the same with the Olympics in GB. 4K will go main stream in Asia long before here - it only makes sense that they are the source of the Electronics and it's R&D and they are the first to adopt and experience it. The hold back was bandwidth 4 yrs ago but today the backbone pipes and switch technology are quite sufficient to handle it now.

except for the fact that Japan is not Asia
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post #41 of 58
5/28/12 at 7:25am
The question of how quickly 4k will be adopted depends on how quickly the prices for both production and display drop to affordable levels. If you remember back in the days of the Hi-Def wars many people sat it out and made do with upconverted DVD's. Some of my DVD's upconverted are very close to blu-ray quality. Maybe upconversion will be the start of 4K.
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post #42 of 58
5/29/12 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidK442 View Post

In my oppinion this article nails it.
If Hi-definition had not come hand in hand with flat panel screens would the average consumer have ditched their old DVD player and CRT for 1080p. I have my doubts.
Many of the "hi-def" cable and satelite channels I've seen have abysmal picture quality (upconverted VHS?) and Netflix (at least in Canada) is almost unwatchable. Even so, the masses seem completely content to ewe and awe over how their new 60' tv is only 1 inch thick.
Those with huge screens and projectors are a minority, and even among this group those who pine away for greater resolution and a better color standard (and are willing and able to pay for it) are fewer still.
98% of the population simply does not care.

I 100% agree with you.
  • Most people over 40 that I know are still using DVD or just on Demand HD with cable. There just isn't a commercially viable market for 4K media at the moment.
  • One also needs to realize that we are in a transition period where many semi modern digital movies where shot for 1080p screens even at the movies. Some older films may have enough quality intact to do 4K justice, but many are already at their limit from age and abuse of the masters.
  • It took time to clean movies up for DVD. It wasn't good enough for bluray so many were releaned for 1080p. They would probably have to redo them again for 4K.
  • The biggest obstacle is people's vision at this point. If your average consumer has a 42" TV, many do not see much of difference between 480p DVDs and 720p downscaled BD. Even fewer between 1080p full HD and 720p HD. Even at 60", many people are not going to see a difference between 4K and 1080 especially as most people sit about 8-10' away from those displays.

It was hard enough convincing people to go from DVD to bluray. How are you going to get people to jump for what will be an even less noticeable difference on their smaller sub 60" sets?

I am not saying that I would not like to see if, but I think it is a pipedream at best at this point. Just above the idea of a flying car. How long have we been hearing that in X years these things would be mainstream? Just like non-gas powered cars.
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post #43 of 58
6/2/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chong67 View Post


hahaha .. I miss that.

I think all the company are doing 1080i. Is there any 1080p streaming out there?

Apple does on its new Apple TV box, so does Vudu. Netflix does some.
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post #44 of 58
6/3/12 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tleavit View Post

In less then 5 years he'll be eating his words about 4K.. no doubt about it. In fact, in 5 years they will probably be talking 12K on some new format we cant even imagine now. I'm an old school IT guy and I remember my C++ professor telling me that Intel would never create a chip faster the the Pentium 100mhz since it already could fry an egg. My first computer ram chip was 64K (512,000 dots) and now 25 years later I have a 64 gig micro SD card chip (512,000,000,000 dots that represent a + or -) that's smaller then my pinky nail.

Wanna bet? It's not about the technology: it's the business model, the studions and the networks
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post #45 of 58
7/23/12 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post


Your statement is false - the Asian region gets the best of the best FIRST and long before N. America/Europe and they have tested successfully Super HiVision for four years now and in partnership to do the same with the Olympics in GB. 4K will go main stream in Asia long before here - it only makes sense that they are the source of the Electronics and it's R&D and they are the first to adopt and experience it. The hold back was bandwidth 4 yrs ago but today the backbone pipes and switch technology are quite sufficient to handle it now.

Asia is a big region, with lots of broadly diverse demographics. Skylinestar is correct that "many Asian countries" still broadcast NTSC standard. Japan/Singapore /= All of Asia. Your average citizen of China, Thailand, Malaysia, Laos, or Vietnam still uses DVD or VCD, and is happy to get 4:3 NTSC broadcast. Furthermore, try finding a hard drive bigger than 500GB in most electronics pavilions in those countries I mention. Your suggestion that "Asia" gets the newest and bestest firstest is false. biggrin.gif
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post #46 of 58
7/23/12 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_anderson_u View Post


Wanna bet? It's not about the technology: it's the business model, the studios and the networks

Take the bet, Mark!
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post #47 of 58
7/26/12 at 9:17am
Jeffkro, if you had to build a 4k, 60fps, 125" display, you'd be charging a lot more than $2000.00
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post #48 of 58
7/26/12 at 9:22am
Let's skip 4k altogether and leapfrog to 8k when the time is right. The current 1080p content providers and manufactures haven't recouped there investment yet. When that happens, let's insist on 8k.
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post #49 of 58
7/26/12 at 6:16pm
I will never own a display larger than 70"-80". I just know I won't. So I really don't care about 4k. That's not to say nobody will. But, I have a feeling, most people wouldn't go bigger than a 60"-80" screen, in most cases. I just don't think it will be worth it to companies to start dumping money into 4k or higher. At least for the foreseeable future, I don't see every home being equipped with a 150"+ screen. As been mentioned, Blu-ray and "Good quality" high-def still hasn't been accepted by everyone, not even close. Most people are satisfied with substandard HD streaming quality or broadcasts. I really can't see 4k being profitable anywhere in the near future. Just my opinion though, obviously.
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post #50 of 58
7/26/12 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

I will never own a display larger than 70"-80". I just know I won't. So I really don't care about 4k. That's not to say nobody will. But, I have a feeling, most people wouldn't go bigger than a 60"-80" screen, in most cases. I just don't think it will be worth it to companies to start dumping money into 4k or higher. At least for the foreseeable future, I don't see every home being equipped with a 150"+ screen. As been mentioned, Blu-ray and "Good quality" high-def still hasn't been accepted by everyone, not even close. Most people are satisfied with substandard HD streaming quality or broadcasts. I really can't see 4k being profitable anywhere in the near future. Just my opinion though, obviously.

According to results of studies done by NHK, from distance of 10 ft, one could notice quality improvement (resolution wise) up to 95.5 PPI.
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post #51 of 58
7/26/12 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomoneh View Post

According to results of studies done by NHK, from distance of 10 ft, one could notice quality improvement (resolution wise) up to 95.5 PPI.

How much of a difference though? Not to mention, is the amount of difference going to be subjective from person to person, etc...
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post #52 of 58
7/26/12 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrEastSide View Post

How much of a difference though? Not to mention, is the amount of difference going to be subjective from person to person, etc...
Returns are diminishing but I believe something might happen when you trick the eye that makes you go "Oh, this is it. This is really different."
It is important that we don't dismiss 4K and 8K on smaller displays as something completely useless.
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post #53 of 58
8/5/12 at 10:53am
Blu-ray is the end of the road for the mass-market physical media formats (It's more than sufficient for the stragglers). Compression and delivery technologies are advancing, but so are the business models, especially as the major players continue to consolidate and monetize bits over and above the actual purchase or rental price of the media itself. The major cell carriers were first, but in the near future, the only thing that will be "unlimited" will be your revenue potential to the big media companies... so the "good news" is that 4k, 8k or whatever is practically inevitable since it fits so perfectly into the emerging business models (more bits = more $$$).
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post #54 of 58
9/24/12 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbuol View Post

Amazing how people are fascinated by new tech, even if the human eye can't tell the difference. Like people that sit in their living rooms, 15 feet from a 42" flat panel that they bought 4 years ago. They HAD to have 1080p because that was the "best", but what the marketing and sales guy didn't tell them is that their eyes won't be able to tell the difference in 720p and 1080p in their situation, and yet a LOT of sub 50" 1080p sets were sold.


Don't get me wrong, I am all for "better", but 4K isn't it. Not for the home. I mean, in order to get an image big enough to really notice, you are dealing with front projection, and I would rather have them work on brighter, higher contrast projectors than pumping more and smaller pixels at us.


Like others have said, 1080p is "mainstream" due to a number of factors. 4K won't be so lucky.


I agree.
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post #55 of 58
10/9/12 at 3:25am
But it is good for front projection yes?
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post #56 of 58
10/9/12 at 7:44am
Commercial movie theaters have, and for the most part stil manage with 2K.

Other issue with 4K is that when you're in Best buy 2 ft form the screen, it's gonna look way better that 1080p, so people will buy
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post #57 of 58
11/12/12 at 12:25pm
With content shifting from owning a "in-your-hand" tape or disc to the Cloud's more abstract notion of virtual ownership, I suspect that Blu-ray could actually be the final physical product for those who enjoy picking a movie from your own shelf.

Like books and magazines, the future for the younger generation is likely to be a virtual world with "less stuff" that you actually can hold in your hand.

Myself, being older and of a collector bent, I prefer now, and will probably always enjoy that feeling of grabbing a film from my own library. I'm old enough to actually remember the days when owning a home theatre meant spending untold thousands on 16mm prints that you projected yourself. We live in a wonderful age where you can grab a blu-ray off your shelf and nearly any movie you want is easily obtainable for a quite reasonable price.

Somehow relying on someone elses server- on your credit with them, on their promise that lhey will always deliver- is for me a step backwards.I don't care how easy it becomes- part of the thrill for me is in the ownership- that particular copy that film which is mine to stick in the player and watch.

Take away the shelf of movies, and it's no longer yours, no matter what the cloud tells you.

That's how it feels to this old film collector, anyways.

I'll be surprised if there is another physical format after blu-ray. I think it's the skies from here on out- which is actually fine for me, as the quality of this medium has reached the point where it will be hard to improve on a picture and sound within the average home without going outside the traditional classic film medium and surrounding you with an immersive new art that won't be a traditional movie anyways.

I think blu-rays are probably the end of the road for traditional, old-school film enthusiasts. You will otherwise have to trust in the mysterious Cloud, and the Man behind the curtain for your cinematic desires.
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post #58 of 58
11/12/12 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukstuf View Post

With content shifting from owning a "in-your-hand" tape or disc to the Cloud's more abstract notion of virtual ownership, I suspect that Blu-ray could actually be the final physical product for those who enjoy picking a movie from your own shelf.
Like books and magazines, the future for the younger generation is likely to be a virtual world with "less stuff" that you actually can hold in your hand.
Myself, being older and of a collector bent, I prefer now, and will probably always enjoy that feeling of grabbing a film from my own library. I'm old enough to actually remember the days when owning a home theatre meant spending untold thousands on 16mm prints that you projected yourself. We live in a wonderful age where you can grab a blu-ray off your shelf and nearly any movie you want is easily obtainable for a quite reasonable price.
Somehow relying on someone elses server- on your credit with them, on their promise that lhey will always deliver- is for me a step backwards.I don't care how easy it becomes- part of the thrill for me is in the ownership- that particular copy that film which is mine to stick in the player and watch.
Take away the shelf of movies, and it's no longer yours, no matter what the cloud tells you.
That's how it feels to this old film collector, anyways.
I'll be surprised if there is another physical format after blu-ray. I think it's the skies from here on out- which is actually fine for me, as the quality of this medium has reached the point where it will be hard to improve on a picture and sound within the average home without going outside the traditional classic film medium and surrounding you with an immersive new art that won't be a traditional movie anyways.
I think blu-rays are probably the end of the road for traditional, old-school film enthusiasts. You will otherwise have to trust in the mysterious Cloud, and the Man behind the curtain for your cinematic desires.

Interesting perspective dukstuff. I'm not that young, but do enjoy new technology. For me, having to locate and put in a physical disk is a huge PIA. I have all movies ripped to a server at home and I'm a fan of UltraViolet. Regarding Blu-ray, I think 4K may be just what's needed for a new format. The CE industry is going to be very disappointed with sales (and ROI) of 4K devices without content so I think there'll be a big push from them to get content into consumers' (buyers') hands. Of course, they got to convince the people in Hollywood that 4K isn't the goose that laid the golden eggs for getting bums back on seats. I'd take Blu-ray at home any day over movie
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