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does AVR watt affect the speaker ?

post #1 of 13
5/18/12 at 3:27pm
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hi guys, i just wander if i used for example 110W 8ohms with AVR 150W and 8ohms, it will affect the speaker or not?
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post #2 of 13
5/18/12 at 5:39pm
Quote:


hi guys, i just wander if i used for example 110W 8ohms with AVR 150W and 8ohms, it will affect the speaker or not?

Your question makes no sense. Could you tell us what equipment you are (thinking of) using and what your concern is?
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post #3 of 13
5/19/12 at 2:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Your question makes no sense. Could you tell us what equipment you are (thinking of) using and what your concern is?

i went to one shop and ask about Kef 2005 , they told me they have package with Onkyo 616 AVR and i asked if it is possible to upgrade the AVR to higher one, they said it is not recommended since KEF is around 110W each and the higher AVR models is about 150W each channel so they said it might effect the speaker and damage it. is this true?
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post #4 of 13
5/19/12 at 2:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alz3abi View Post

hi guys, i just wander if i used for example 110W 8ohms with AVR 150W and 8ohms, it will affect the speaker or not?

There is less than 2 dB different between 110 watts and 150 watts. You can probably hear the difference, but it isn't all that much.

It takes about 10 dB to give the perception of "twice as loud". This is only a fraction of that.

There's a problem with receivers. They can only get so heavy and so large, and then people can't take them out of boxes and put them on cabinet shelves, and the cabinet shelves can't start bowing down. Someplace around 100 watt per channel is about it at this time.

If you want appreciably more power, you have to go to separate power amplifiers. However, even home audio power amps that have more than about 200 wpc are pretty rare. 200 wpc is only 3 dB more than 100 wpc.

Applying the 10 dB rule for "twice as loud", your next amp needs to put out a thousand watts (1,000 !) per channel. Good luck finding speakers that will take that kind of power!
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post #5 of 13
5/19/12 at 3:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alz3abi View Post

i went to one shop and ask about Kef 2005 , they told me they have package with Onkyo 616 AVR and i asked if it is possible to upgrade the AVR to higher one, they said it is not recommended since KEF is around 110W each and the higher AVR models is about 150W each channel so they said it might effect the speaker and damage it. is this true?

In a Word "NO"
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post #6 of 13
5/19/12 at 7:09am
You have nothing to worry about unless you crank the volume up, probably beyond what your ears could stand. And you could do that with a smaller amp as well as a larger one.
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post #7 of 13
5/19/12 at 8:06am
Damage is more likely to be caused by driving inefficient speakers in a large room with a weak receiver. As you turn up the volume, the sound gets more and more distorted until the receiver's amps start clipping. At that point, more constant current is delivered to the speakers, which overheats them and can damage the tweeters.

As previously mentioned, the salesperson was not telling the truth. It's more likely that either they get a larger profit on the combined system, or they have an overstock and need to get rid of them. Or, to be generous, he simply didn't know any better and made it up.

Bear in mind, however, that the quality of the speakers (and the room where you listen to them) has the most effect on the quality of what you hear. Typically you should expect to spend about 2/3 of your budget on speakers and 1/3 on electronics.
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post #8 of 13
5/19/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post


There is less than 2 dB different between 110 watts and 150 watts. You can probably hear the difference, but it isn't all that much.

It takes about 10 dB to give the perception of "twice as loud". This is only a fraction of that.

There's a problem with receivers. They can only get so heavy and so large, and then people can't take them out of boxes and put them on cabinet shelves, and the cabinet shelves can't start bowing down. Someplace around 100 watt per channel is about it at this time.

If you want appreciably more power, you have to go to separate power amplifiers. However, even home audio power amps that have more than about 200 wpc are pretty rare. 200 wpc is only 3 dB more than 100 wpc.

Applying the 10 dB rule for "twice as loud", your next amp needs to put out a thousand watts (1,000 !) per channel. Good luck finding speakers that will take that kind of power!

What if you are using speakers with an efficiency rating of 88db? Short listening distance, say about 3 feet and 7 speakers. What kind of power output will be required before clipping? Say in an apartment for casual listening without going too high on the volume. Will 90 watts/channel distort?
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post #9 of 13
5/19/12 at 1:24pm
Answering your last question: No. That'd be fine.

However, if you try to use an 83db speaker system with a 50 watt receiver in a 20' room at reference levels, that'd distort, and probably damage the speakers.

It's finding an intermediate solution that's difficult, especially since you cannot trust the power values published by most of the manufacturers. That's one reason why many people go for "overkill" -- 90db or higher speakers plus multichannel amps with kilowatt or greater power supplies -- so they simply don't have to worry about it. There are plenty of choices in those ranges, although many are expensive, leaving room for many opinions about which equipment is better.
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post #10 of 13
5/19/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd_newbie View Post

What if you are using speakers with an efficiency rating of 88db?

The 2 dB difference in power ratings remains 2 dB, so either amp would still be a good choice.

110 watts is about 21 dB greater than 1 watt, so at one meter, the SPL due to one 88 dB/w speaker would about 109 dB.


Quote:


Short listening distance, say about 3 feet and 7 speakers.

Acoustic output a one point from multiple sources is not so easy to calcualte because of the certainty of varying phases due to the recording, room reflections, speaker directivity, etc. If things add up perfectly which never happens, 7 sources give an approximate 8.5 dB gain.

Quote:


What kind of power output will be required before clipping? Say in an apartment for casual listening without going too high on the volume. Will 90 watts/channel distort?

It all depends on the loudness preferences of the listener and the frequency distribution of energy in the music. SPL > 110 SPL in the midrange is very loud, but if cleanly reproduced at 20 Hz, it is just a clearly noticeable very low pitched sound, almost more felt than heard.
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post #11 of 13
5/19/12 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Answering your last question: No. That'd be fine.

However, if you try to use an 83db speaker system with a 50 watt receiver in a 20' room at reference levels, that'd distort, and probably damage the speakers.

It's finding an intermediate solution that's difficult, especially since you cannot trust the power values published by most of the manufacturers. That's one reason why many people go for "overkill" -- 90db or higher speakers plus multichannel amps with kilowatt or greater power supplies -- so they simply don't have to worry about it. There are plenty of choices in those ranges, although many are expensive, leaving room for many opinions about which equipment is better.

True and I used to be from the overkill school, but I live in a small apartment and trying to save some space, which prompted me to think if I really need these huge boxes in my cabinet. Thinking of getting something small with all bells and whistles. But my speakers are not very inefficient, so I wanted to make sure they won't distort.
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post #12 of 13
5/19/12 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alz3abi View Post

i went to one shop and ask about Kef 2005 , they told me they have package with Onkyo 616 AVR and i asked if it is possible to upgrade the AVR to higher one, they said it is not recommended since KEF is around 110W each and the higher AVR models is about 150W each channel so they said it might effect the speaker and damage it. is this true?

Those KEF 2005s are tiny little speakers rated at 70 watts. Store is right that you can cook them with too much power if get tempted to turn up the knob .
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post #13 of 13
5/20/12 at 8:01am
You probably would not damage them, but the 2005 system are not very good speakers.

The front speakers are too small for good sound, and the subwoofer is a joke.

I recommend that you go to KEF Direct and get four of the iQ10 speakers, for $598, and an iQ60c or C6-LCR center speaker for $299. That will be a MUCH better-sounding system than the 2005 system.

THe Rythmic FV12 subwoofer is around $500 and highly recommended.

Even the Polk PSW505 subwoofer, for $250, is better than the one that comes with the 2005 system.




Quote:
Originally Posted by alz3abi View Post

hi guys, i just wander if i used for example 110W 8ohms with AVR 150W and 8ohms, it will affect the speaker or not?
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