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true subsonic subwoofers

post #1 of 39
5/20/12 at 7:51pm
Thread Starter 
I've searched these forums and not found the exact thread. Is there a list of true subsonic subwoofers, preferably with prices? I'm looking for flat down to at least 16 Hz.
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post #2 of 39
5/20/12 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

I've searched these forums and not found the exact thread. Is there a list of true subsonic subwoofers, preferably with prices? I'm looking for flat down to at least 16 Hz.

Budget? Room size? placement options? I'll make a list for you
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post #3 of 39
5/20/12 at 8:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

I've searched these forums and not found the exact thread. Is there a list of true subsonic subwoofers, preferably with prices? I'm looking for flat down to at least 16 Hz.

Heh.
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post #4 of 39
5/20/12 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
Room is 18' W x 30' L x 9' H. Price budget is $2000. Flexible on placement.

OK, is flat to 16 too aggressive? Why the laugh. I can be happy with flat to 20 Hz.
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post #5 of 39
5/20/12 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

Room is 18' W x 30' L x 9' H. Price budget is $2000. Flexible on placement.

OK, is flat to 16 too aggressive? Why the laugh. I can be happy with flat to 20 Hz.

That's a big room... might need 2 subs to get what u want. Diy possible?
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post #6 of 39
5/20/12 at 11:07pm
You can have extension, but at the expense of output. In that room, you will want output first. If you are really interested in subsonic bass, the best way to go really deep is a bunch of sealed subs. The gradual rolloff plus room gain can get you very low bass, sometimes as low as 10 hz. But if your budget is strict at $2k, I would go for a Rythmik FV15HP or SVS PB13 Ultra. If you can swing an extra thousand, I would go for some sealed 15"s like some Hsu ULS-15s or Rythmik F15s, and stack them in a corner, a setup like that would dig to subterranean levels.
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post #7 of 39
5/20/12 at 11:31pm
I would get 4 of these CHT SS18.1's. You can pick up an EP4000 to power all 4, daisy chaining 2 each per channel. You can latter add a MiniDSP to EQ the subs flat.

(yes I realize this puts you over $2k, you can also start with 2 subs and add 2 more later)
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post #8 of 39
5/21/12 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

Room is 18' W x 30' L x 9' H. Price budget is $2000. Flexible on placement.
. . .
I can be happy with flat to 20 Hz.

IMO, and for ~$2K (or less), duals of the following should do the trick:
- HSU VTF-15H
- SVS PB12-NSD
- ChaseHT VS-18.1 + amp (Dayton Audio SA1000, or other)
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post #9 of 39
5/21/12 at 6:48am
You should check out Riccis Data-Bass for subwoofer performance info:

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems

Also look for pro reviews to see how the various subs perform. Avoid companies which refuse to have their products tested by either the pros or independent third parties like Ricci, as you will never know what you will wind up with. Some designs require so much eq to run deep that normal amps will clip, and can only be used with noisy pro amps. Stick with established brands and tested products and you won't get stuck.
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post #10 of 39
5/21/12 at 10:07am
Thread Starter 
Cool, thanks for the inputs. I'm not able to DIY. I can increase my budget somewhat, just have to cut down on my other hobby.

Interesting thing I noticed during my research is such lack of true subwoofers. Many can go down to 28 or 25 Hz, but no lower.
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post #11 of 39
5/21/12 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

Cool, thanks for the inputs. I'm not able to DIY. I can increase my budget somewhat, just have to cut down on my other hobby.

Interesting thing I noticed during my research is such lack of true subwoofers. Many can go down to 28 or 25 Hz, but no lower.

A bunch can from the internet direct companies!
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post #12 of 39
5/21/12 at 10:48am
A Submersive HP will be flat below 15 hz even in your large room. So will a Captivator S. A little above $2k shipped but worth it.
The FV15HP would be my second choice. Put it in 14 Hz tune and when funds allow get another.
If you are willing to forgo below 18hz a ported Captivator would give you tremendous output in your large room.
The smilie face above is not a knock on you. It is in anticipation of a certain someone showing up in this thread and spouting nonsense about the uselessness of high output at ultra low frequencies. Or maybe we'll luck out and he's on vacation (without a smartphone).
Tim
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post #13 of 39
5/21/12 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

A Submersive HP will be flat below 15 hz even in your large room. So will a Captivator S. A little above $2k shipped but worth it.
The FV15HP would be my second choice. Put it in 14 Hz tune and when funds allow get another.
If you are willing to forgo below 18hz a ported Captivator would give you tremendous output in your large room.
The smilie face above is not a knock on you. It is in anticipation of a certain someone showing up in this thread and spouting nonsense about the uselessness of high output at ultra low frequencies. Or maybe we'll luck out and he's on vacation (without a smartphone).
Tim

Fat chance of that... He'll be here, trust me

With that issue aside, that is a big room.... Multiples are probably in your future, for deep bass and a smooth response across your LP ( listening Position )
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post #14 of 39
5/21/12 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Fat chance of that... He'll be here, trust me

Sigh...
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post #15 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:11pm
Hi, this is Auditor55 channeling through Glashub. You can't stop me. I've taken possesion of him. He's my zombie now. Let's talk about this sub 20hz tomfoolery, shall we?

(Just kidding)
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post #16 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

IMO, and for ~$2K (or less), duals of the following should do the trick:
- HSU VTF-15H
- SVS PB12-NSD
- ChaseHT VS-18.1 + amp (Dayton Audio SA1000, or other)

I second the 18.1s and Dayton combo. I purchase this same setup for my room (15' X 30' X 8') and my numbers are reasonably flat to below 20 Hz using a digital RS SPL meter. Granted I'm not a professional reviewer or anything, but I am very pleased with the results. I was in a very similar boat. No other offerings could get me into duals ( I like the more even response), 20Hz or lower (I think they're tuned to 16 or 17 Hz), and the output I wanted (I'm a fan of ported designs for efficiency) for under 2K. The amount of current you pull from the wall will easily work on your standard 15A circuit.

There are plenty of products who could meet my performance needs, but I was limited when it came to budget.
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post #17 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:26pm
Damn it! I only have a pair of midbass modules and so should everyone else. If they are enough for me they should be enough for the rest of the world.

Op - If I could do it aaallllll over again, I would probably swing for a Submersive. It has proven itself over and over again against the competition and has been around long enough. I own an Epik Empire and if the Submersive is a whole lot more of the Empire then you can't lose. Future upgrades/trial & error are expensive in the long run. Ofcourse, you can always snag 1-2 yr old used sub/subs mentioned here. Submersive/Captivator owners are clingy though.
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post #18 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

The smilie face above is not a knock on you. It is in anticipation of a certain someone showing up in this thread and spouting nonsense about the uselessness of high output at ultra low frequencies. Or maybe we'll luck out and he's on vacation (without a smartphone).
Tim

I'll play devil's advocate here. Subsonic bass is just that: low frequencies you can't hear. Getting some serious bass below 20 hz is expensive and will take up a lot of space and electricity. Some people enjoy it, but for me it is a novelty that wore off. I would recommend that you at least go to someone's house who has a setup that can put out some real output significantly below 20 hz (real output I would define as at least 110 db at listening position), so you can see what its like, if you don't already know. Only then should you decide whether you want to chase that kind of bass. Ask them to play some test tones below 20 hz, like 18 hz, 16 hz, 14 hz, and so on, and then ask yourself, is it worth it.

I'm not telling you not to go for subsonic bass, I am advising you to get some listening experience and be realistic about the costs and benefits of it.
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post #19 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:51pm
If one of you guys dont chime in with a good solution, I'm gonna go off on the benifits of multiple sealed subs as welti/devantier and geddes has written, and the only way to acheive a flat response is with multpile subwoofers in separate locations, EQ'd by the likes of MiniDSP.....

There, are you all happy... I said it
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post #20 of 39
5/21/12 at 12:55pm
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'll play devil's advocate here. Subsonic bass is just that: low frequencies you can't hear. Getting some serious bass below 20 hz is expensive and will take up a lot of space and electricity. Some people enjoy it, but for me it is a novelty that wore off. I would recommend that you at least go to someone's house who has a setup that can put out some real output significantly below 20 hz (real output I would define as at least 110 db at listening position), so you can see what its like, if you don't already know. Only then should you decide whether you want to chase that kind of bass. Ask them to play some test tones below 20 hz, like 18 hz, 16 hz, 14 hz, and so on, and then ask yourself, is it worth it.

I'm not telling you not to go for subsonic bass, I am advising you to get some listening experience and be realistic about the costs and benefits of it.

So what did you end up doing, just hipass the system, or was this an old system that had full bandwidth that you got tired of.... Best bet is to playback source material instead of test tones, maybe thats what lead to the novelty thing....
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post #21 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:04pm
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Originally Posted by AVrebel View Post

I second the 18.1s and Dayton combo. I purchase this same setup for my room (15' X 30' X 8') and my numbers are reasonably flat to below 20 Hz using a digital RS SPL meter. Granted I'm not a professional reviewer or anything, but I am very pleased with the results. I was in a very similar boat. No other offerings could get me into duals ( I like the more even response), 20Hz or lower (I think they're tuned to 16 or 17 Hz), and the output I wanted (I'm a fan of ported designs for efficiency) for under 2K. The amount of current you pull from the wall will easily work on your standard 15A circuit.

There are plenty of products who could meet my performance needs, but I was limited when it came to budget.

Probably cheaper to go with an EP4000 amp
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post #22 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:09pm
shadyj,
Every word you say is true. Unfortunately you also were logical and reasonable and thus did a poor rendition of our beloved Auditor55

Here at AVS it is easy to over emphasize subsonic extension and fail to maximize the more commonly utilized (and impactful) octaves. I could live without subsonic bass or even deep bass but not clean tight midbass.

That said I enjoy the luxury of subsonic bass and would prefer not to give it up.
Tim
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post #23 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:41pm
Quote:


The smilie face above is not a knock on you. It is in anticipation of a certain someone showing up in this thread and spouting nonsense about the uselessness of high output at ultra low frequencies. Or maybe we'll luck out and he's on vacation (without a smartphone).

I was going to start a thread on this very topic.
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post #24 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:50pm
Wait till a minute...you duped us! You are ballroomBoom aren't you?
Tim
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post #25 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecodorthopod View Post

Wait till a minute...you duped us! You are ballroomBoom aren't you?
Tim

I have no interest in hastening any hearing loss.
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post #26 of 39
5/21/12 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

So what did you end up doing, just hipass the system, or was this an old system that had full bandwidth that you got tired of.... Best bet is to playback source material instead of test tones, maybe thats what lead to the novelty thing....

I didn't get tired of it, I just stopped caring about it. I still have it, I suppose having it is better than not having it, but infrasonic bass is just not that important to me. Maybe what put me off was the source material, honestly I just don't like many of the movies that have that kind of bass in them. Most of the movies that do have strong deep bass are big hollywood effects driven movies, not really my cup of tea. Mostly I use my system for music.
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post #27 of 39
5/21/12 at 2:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I'm not telling you not to go for subsonic bass, I am advising you to get some listening experience and be realistic about the costs and benefits of it.

This is a good point, as my own audiophilish bro has advised me not to go subsonic, that not much music material actually contain anything in the 20-25 Hz range, let alone 16-19 Hz. (I'm mainly into music, versus movies.)

It's like owning a Ferrari, you just gotta have one if you can, even if it's not as practical as a daily beater. (No, I don't own a Ferrari.)
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post #28 of 39
5/21/12 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballroomBoom View Post

Room is 18' W x 30' L x 9' H. Price budget is $2000. Flexible on placement.

OK, is flat to 16 too aggressive? Why the laugh. I can be happy with flat to 20 Hz.

No, down to 16hz isn't aggressive at all. I just get a kick out of the request being a long time DIY sub builder. My very first subwoofer I built when I was 16 was flat to 15hz in room and it only cost about $400 to build.

Your room is rather large though so it would require a few subwoofers for major output... if that's what you're looking for. Most ID/brand name subs will roll-off below 20hz or not give much output <20hz. There are only a small few that will do so well but will cost a few pennies. And by "a few pennies" I mean thousands of dollars each.
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post #29 of 39
5/21/12 at 3:22pm
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Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post


I have no interest in hastening any hearing loss.

You know watching tv too can worsen your vision
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post #30 of 39
5/21/12 at 3:59pm
Where do you live, maybe a AVS member could offer a demo
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