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After three years of 3D my conclusion is - Page 5

post #121 of 250
Quote:
full screen only 3D doesn't cut it and never will.
The upcoming 4k passive panels very likely will only display 3D full screen making them worthless
to me.

Yes, I fully respect your personal desires for something unique and not common in the 3D TV industry. But, you should not assume that the new 4K Panels will not allow you to do what you want, plus the benefit of improved picture quality. I also recall your vision problems with focus and that beyond a certain resolution, you just can't appreciate.

Now, ( for Trick and others), I was able to duplicate Frank's multiple 3D windows here pretty easy with my Vizio 32" Panel TV.

I only have three applications to display 3D content in the required Line interleaved mode on my edit computer that uses the Vizio as a secondary monitor so I tested with those apps.

1. Stereoscopic Player: Opened an MPO file I shot with my NEX5n in panorama 3D. Used Row Interleaved Right /top
2. You Tube- Displayed one of my SBS / Half 3D videos on my channel but went into the 3D settings and switched it to Interleave, 3D on. Slid the Browser with not full screen window and the browser was in 2D while the video window was in 3D.
3. Power Director allows Interlerleave display, Had to use Media Viewer window on the Vizio as otherwise it goes to full screen.

The Vizio was in 2D mode and with passive glasses each window was in glorious 3D!

When Frank first described this method, I had to chuckle because I recall just a few months ago he was pretty stubborn about Must have checkerboard for the same end use reason! Back then I had finally resolved the lack of SBS viewing mode in the Power Director viewer using this interleaved method, BUT I had never tried it to view multiple windows as Frank has done. I recall the engineers on PD10 not understanding why I got it to work but they accepted that I was finally happy with being able to see 3D with Power Director. I put the Vizio in 2D mode and selected, interleave.

The key requirements here to make this work is twofold, 1. The panel must use a Film Pattern technology which is a film laminated to the front of the screen that projects the picture, all pictures through it in a polarized set of light outputs. The second requirement is as Frank said, a player that offers "Interleaved" output. It's that simple.

Frank- I would not automatically refuse the higher quality 4K monitor, believing that it will not work. These new LED 4K monitors still use the FPR layer on the screens. I asked the engineers at CES about it. The only difference is the number of pixels which should be a huge benefit for you fitting even more windows. For me and others, being able to view full 2K resolution in 3D that normally would get cut in half on the present day 2K panels.

Finally, I found no way to use this method with Vegas Pro as Vegas does not offer an interleave 3D viewing mode. If you got this to work, Frank, I'd like to know what settings you used in Vegas as a matter of education. I don't have a use for multiple 3D windows but it's nice to know the possibilities.

Also, nowhere can I find that interleave is supported or not on my Vizio. It just works, exactly as it does on your LG.
post #122 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Quote:
full screen only 3D doesn't cut it and never will.
The upcoming 4k passive panels very likely will only display 3D full screen making them worthless
to me.
Yes, I fully respect your personal desires for something unique and not common in the 3D TV industry. But, you should not assume that the new 4K Panels will not allow you to do what you want, plus the benefit of improved picture quality. I also recall your vision problems with focus and that beyond a certain resolution, you just can't appreciate.
Now, ( for Trick and others), I was able to duplicate Frank's multiple 3D windows here pretty easy with my Vizio 32" Panel TV.
I only have three applications to display 3D content in the required Line interleaved mode on my edit computer that uses the Vizio as a secondary monitor so I tested with those apps.
1. Stereoscopic Player: Opened an MPO file I shot with my NEX5n in panorama 3D. Used Row Interleaved Right /top
2. You Tube- Displayed one of my SBS / Half 3D videos on my channel but went into the 3D settings and switched it to Interleave, 3D on. Slid the Browser with not full screen window and the browser was in 2D while the video window was in 3D.
3. Power Director allows Interlerleave display, Had to use Media Viewer window on the Vizio as otherwise it goes to full screen.
The Vizio was in 2D mode and with passive glasses each window was in glorious 3D!
When Frank first described this method, I had to chuckle because I recall just a few months ago he was pretty stubborn about Must have checkerboard for the same end use reason! Back then I had finally resolved the lack of SBS viewing mode in the Power Director viewer using this interleaved method, BUT I had never tried it to view multiple windows as Frank has done. I recall the engineers on PD10 not understanding why I got it to work but they accepted that I was finally happy with being able to see 3D with Power Director. I put the Vizio in 2D mode and selected, interleave.
The key requirements here to make this work is twofold, 1. The panel must use a Film Pattern technology which is a film laminated to the front of the screen that projects the picture, all pictures through it in a polarized set of light outputs. The second requirement is as Frank said, a player that offers "Interleaved" output. It's that simple.
Frank- I would not automatically refuse the higher quality 4K monitor, believing that it will not work. These new LED 4K monitors still use the FPR layer on the screens. I asked the engineers at CES about it. The only difference is the number of pixels which should be a huge benefit for you fitting even more windows. For me and others, being able to view full 2K resolution in 3D that normally would get cut in half on the present day 2K panels.
Finally, I found no way to use this method with Vegas Pro as Vegas does not offer an interleave 3D viewing mode. If you got this to work, Frank, I'd like to know what settings you used in Vegas as a matter of education. I don't have a use for multiple 3D windows but it's nice to know the possibilities.
Also, nowhere can I find that interleave is supported or not on my Vizio. It just works, exactly as it does on your LG.

Very worthwhile post, Don, at least for the one or two of us who might be interested. rolleyes.gif

As far as the upcoming 4K passive panels, I'm pretty confident that they will not support windowed 3D unless they implement extra modes beyond the HDMI 1.4x standard modes.
If they do, that will be fantastic but it is a certainty that windowed 3D will require it to be in a 3D mode that it may or may not have.
Getting 3D in 2D mode as is now possible will not work.
post #123 of 250
I could be wrong on this but I question if the combination of Line interleave plus Film Pattern Retarder technology has anything to do with hdmi 1.4 or electronic for that matter. I'm thinking it is just a phenomena of the optics and the left / right eye views rendered to a Line interleave image on the display. If you put the monitor in a 3D mode, all that does is affect the electronics and how different signals are arranged to comply with the FPR coating and the polarized light. It makes the, for example, SBS half a quasi line interleave image on the display so the look is the same, that is "3D" My bet is that this method works with all FPR panels.
post #124 of 250
OK, thanks, got it working now at least for Stereoscopic Player. Haven't tested PowerDirector yet, but am sure that will work, too. I'm not really sure what setting was wrong, but now its right.
post #125 of 250
In Vegas Pro, setting my preview settings to Line Alternate will now give no fuss 3D whenever I click into full screen preview, but the smaller preview window looks chunky when I put my project settings into Line Alternate. I don't think I would edit with passive 3D glasses on anyway, because then 2D content has those lines that interfere with reading small text. I'll edit watching Left Only without glasses, and then occasionally preview full screen in Line Alternate with glasses. (And adjust horizontal offset viewing Red/Cyan without glasses.) Thanks again to Frank and Don for the tips easing 3D work by using a passive display.
post #126 of 250
FWIW- My usual editing setup is that I, too, use Left only for my main computer preview window in Vegas Pro. But I also use the Vizio for secondary preview and wear my passive glasses all the time while editing. I set the previews to Best Full now that I have the new very fast graphics card for reviewing full screen. and when doing layouts and element design, I use the 2D computer monitor in Preview Auto. This has been a complaint of mine with Vegas as they should allow you to select the modes separately between the preview and the secondary. The problem is if you set the mode to Preview auto and the window is at much reduced size, then the secondary screen blows that resolution up to full 1920 size which makes the image fuzzy. Its a PIA until they figure out a way to fix the secondary monitor to 1080 x1920 and permit the windowed preview to be in auto.

I'm interested in what you do to use Line Alternate. I didn't think that was compatible with the Passive monitors. As I said, I just use SBS Half for my secondary monitor.
Just curious as I don't think you reported any advantage over what I get with SBS Half.
post #127 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

FWIW- My usual editing setup is that I, too, use Left only for my main computer preview window in Vegas Pro. But I also use the Vizio for secondary preview and wear my passive glasses all the time while editing. I set the previews to Best Full now that I have the new very fast graphics card for reviewing full screen. and when doing layouts and element design, I use the 2D computer monitor in Preview Auto. This has been a complaint of mine with Vegas as they should allow you to select the modes separately between the preview and the secondary. The problem is if you set the mode to Preview auto and the window is at much reduced size, then the secondary screen blows that resolution up to full 1920 size which makes the image fuzzy. Its a PIA until they figure out a way to fix the secondary monitor to 1080 x1920 and permit the windowed preview to be in auto.
I'm interested in what you do to use Line Alternate. I didn't think that was compatible with the Passive monitors. As I said, I just use SBS Half for my secondary monitor.
Just curious as I don't think you reported any advantage over what I get with SBS Half.
In my case, I am only using one monitor for Vegas at the moment and it's a Vizio 32" passive.
I set the preview device to line alternate and it works fine in 3D without having to switch the 3D monitor into 3D mode.
post #128 of 250
Thanks guys. As soon as this cut is done rendering I will give it a try. I'm thinking this may reduce a couple of steps in my switchovers if it works.

OT- Frank, I have another cut of the Valley of Fire I'd like you to look at. Need to upload it to my server later today. I send you a link later. I'm finding that editing dissimilar IA shots adjacent to each other is quite possible but requires lots of additional work. I'm also working with the latest Google Earth software and the free version doesn't permit the rendering to HD video but I have a way around that. More on that later.
post #129 of 250
Wondering if any passive 3D televisions produce/resolve a "Full HD 3D" 1080P frame-packed picture with Blu-ray 3D to date?

Paul
post #130 of 250
Paul-
Look for the LG passive 4K series TVs. These will get you full 1920 horizontal resolution. These are just beginning to be released so you may not see them in stores for yet a couple months.


Frank- I tested the line alternate output frm Vegas and it works, however as a secondary monitor it only works full screen.

Worse, I felt Line alternate had considerably less resolution than SBS HALF I was able to A/B the two on the same image flipping them back and forth and the SBS was full of additional deal and didn't have the jaggies that line alternate did. I will stick to SBS half for editing. I think since you are using one monitor having this may offer some advantage that I don't need. That is you don't need to use the anaglyph mode in your Vegas window for 3D.


Sent from my iPAD 3. Using Safari since AVS broke their iPad app. frown.gif
post #131 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Paul-
Look for the LG passive 4K series TVs. These will get you full 1920 horizontal resolution.
I would certainly hope so since all the current generation units do. Hopefully it will even get 1080 lines of resoltuion.biggrin.gif
Quote:
These are just beginning to be released so you may not see them in stores for yet a couple months.
What do you suppose my chances are of them being able to answer whether or not they support interlaced modes?rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Frank- I tested the line alternate output frm Vegas and it works, however as a secondary monitor it only works full screen.
Worse, I felt Line alternate had considerably less resolution than SBS HALF I was able to A/B the two on the same image flipping them back and forth and the SBS was full of additional deal and didn't have the jaggies that line alternate did. I will stick to SBS half for editing. I think since you are using one monitor having this may offer some advantage that I don't need. That is you don't need to use the anaglyph mode in your Vegas window for 3D.
Sent from my iPAD 3. Using Safari since AVS broke their iPad app. frown.gif
You are correct. I see the same thing. This is obviously caused by a bad interleave driver in Vegas.
post #132 of 250
Quote:
You are correct. I see the same thing. This is obviously caused by a bad interleave driver in Vegas.


Maybe, I have nothing else to compare it to so I wouldn't know.

The new game plan with a 4K Passive is that we will be able to use SBS Full as opposed to SBS half. That way we will be able to see the full 1080 x 1920 without it being squished. I was able to fool the Vizio once in an experiment with SBS Full to full height by messing with the Pixel aspect ratio but the results were not that much better. I was hoping to at least match the frame packed quality of the same personal content on Blu Ray as from the Vegas secondary output. When I spoke to an LG engineer about this he said I would never be able to fool the display as the FPR coating is still a limiting factor. When the 4K monitors are out everything will be higher resolution so that will be the only way to get a match in PQ resolution with Blu Ray on a active glasses monitor. 4K x 2k will level the playing field between the passive and active glasses for 1080 x 1920.

Besides, I don't mind waiting until next year as my funds are all tapped out for this year buying stock in Apple and a few others.
post #133 of 250
Thread Starter 
Supposedly my new LG 65LM6200 3D television (3D computer monitor in my case)wink.gif arrives.
Also arriving is my new stereoscopic 3D combiner unit. That should allow me to test the TV/3D monitor by viewing live HiDef 3D from outside from my 2 new Canon HF G10 camcorders.
Very exciting stuff.
post #134 of 250
Had no idea AVS was even back up and running since the apps no longer work. Anyways, I am really enjoying the 65LM6200. Coming from a 5yr old Vizio the blacks are better and more than acceptable. I'm not truly happy with my settings yet, but it's been more fun enjoying the television than it has been calibrating and being anal with it. I think you'll like it when it arrives Frank.
post #135 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by THe_Flash View Post

Had no idea AVS was even back up and running since the apps no longer work. Anyways, I am really enjoying the 65LM6200. Coming from a 5yr old Vizio the blacks are better and more than acceptable. I'm not truly happy with my settings yet, but it's been more fun enjoying the television than it has been calibrating and being anal with it. I think you'll like it when it arrives Frank.
Glad you're enjoying it! Congratulations....
Mine arrived today but I haven't completely removed it from the box yet.
My 3D combiner arrived also and I'm been working with it. It works great and will allow me to view the live 3D video from outside on the new LG just like I hoped.
Tomorrow should be a lot of fun.
biggrin.gif
post #136 of 250
Frank- How are you planning to do 3D in a window with the Combiner?
post #137 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Frank- How are you planning to do 3D in a window with the Combiner?
Combiner output format set to 1080I sbs 59.94
Camcorder A HDMI out to combiner DVI input A.
Camcorder B HDMI out to combinder DVI input B.
Combiner DVI out to input of Avermedia HDDVR
Stereoscopic Player live video input Avermedia
Stereoscopic Player display format set to line interleave.

I have my new LG 65LM6200 set up temporarily adjacent to my Samsung PN63C7000 with both of them displaying the same thing so I can evaluate them side by side.
And the winner by a huge huge margin is............................................


Answer will come later today.

biggrin.gif
post #138 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Here is a YouTube video I made showing me playing around for the last time with my PN63C7000 Samsung using the dreaded active glasses.

Since it's replacement LG 65" passive set will be here in a few days I thought I would play around with it a bit before pulling it down.
bye bye active 3D!

Frank, while I find you and the information presented in this thread very fascinating what I'm wondering is are you baiting those bears? I'd check with your state Fish and Game to ensure the legality of it in a non hunting situation or at all for that matter.

-signed,
A Big Game Hunter
post #139 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itallushrt View Post

Frank, while I find you and the information presented in this thread very fascinating what I'm wondering is are you baiting those bears? I'd check with your state Fish and Game to ensure the legality of it in a non hunting situation or at all for that matter.
-signed,
A Big Game Hunter
The local wildlife people are well aware of my particular situation.
Black bears used to live in an eagles nest at the top of a white pine tree just outside my livingroom window.

I guess you might call me the exact opposite of a big game hunter since I'm a long time vegetarian who won't even kill a fly.
post #140 of 250
Thread Starter 
Feeding the LG line interleaved 3D from a computer and leaving the TV in 2D mode unlike my other passive TVs doesn't work.
However it turns out it doesn't matter as I can select line interleaved mode from the 3D menu and just leave it there.
Comparisons with the Plasma are still ongoing.
post #141 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

The local wildlife people are well aware of my particular situation.
Black bears used to live in an eagles nest at the top of a white pine tree just outside my livingroom window.
I guess you might call me the exact opposite of a big game hunter since I'm a long time vegetarian who won't even kill a fly.

So you are baiting them? How humanitarian of you.
post #142 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itallushrt View Post

So you are baiting them? How humanitarian of you.
Since I don't know the first thing about hunting or want to, I honestly don't even know what "baiting" means.
In any event I was actually shooting video of red squirrels and was feeding them when the bear cub appeared.

And now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic, I hope.
post #143 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Since I don't know the first thing about hunting or want to, I honestly don't even know what "baiting" means.
In any event I was actually shooting video of red squirrels and was feeding them when the bear cub appeared.
And now back to our regularly scheduled thread topic, I hope.

Hunting has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

It appears that you are feeding bears in an effort to attract them to your property .... for whatever reason. If that is what you are doing it is, IMHO morally wrong, and likely illegal, rightfully so, depending on what state you live in.
post #144 of 250
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by itallushrt View Post

Hunting has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
It appears that you are feeding bears in an effort to attract them to your property .... for whatever reason. If that is what you are doing it is, IMHO morally wrong, and likely illegal, rightfully so, depending on what state you live in.
My last post on this issue:
Why would I attempt to attract bears to my property when they live here and have lived here long before I got here?
They've destroyed several of my cedar trees. I would be more then happy to never see another one in my yard......
By the way, around these parts it's considered moral to kill black bears and immoral to feed them.
post #145 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

My last post on this issue:
Why would I attempt to attract bears to my property when they live here and have lived here long before I got here?
They've destroyed several of my cedar trees. I would be more then happy to never see another one in my yard......
By the way, around these parts it's considered moral to kill black bears and immoral to feed them.


Why would you attempt to attract them? Maybe because you have droned on and on about how many hundreds of hours of film you have of the wildlife outside your house? rolleyes.gif


As for the thoughts, in your parts, I agree with them. Feeding bears has proven time and time again to do nothing but ultimately seal the fate of the animal...death.
post #146 of 250
itallushrt-

I've seen most of Frank's videos of his local wild life residents over the past year and a half. I have never seen him bait or feed big game animals. Only birds and squirrels as with those peanuts. He just happens to live where these animals reside and believe it or not these animals know Frank's cameras don't kill them, but I'll bet they do recognize that a game hunter as yourself is a real threat to their lives, so I think you should get off your high horse and stop accusing Frank of something you have no evidence on. If you want to hunt real dangerous animals, the country might want your skills in Afghanistan as the war du jour. mad.gif

Now lets get back on topic PLEASE! This is a forum for 3D displays, not personal morals and opinions on hunting and big game conservation preaching. Hate me if you want but youre a smart person so you know I'm right on this. .
post #147 of 250

Don, if you had taken the time to read my post you'd see that no where am I "preaching" anything, but instead inquiring to the legality of feeding wild bears where Frank lives. In most states where bears exist it is illegal to feed or bait bears for viewing purposes. The reason is because it often creates a dangerous situation to humans. However, I don't expect someone who suggests killing a human being in lieu of an animal to put much thought into anything I've contributed to this thread. 

 

I do find it interesting that Frank is now oddly absent from this thread and the you tube video linked to , in which a bear is eating something out of a bucket (HERE and see below) , is now marked as private and not viewable.

 

7369687806_f1b31836cf_o.jpg

 

Have a nice day,

itallushrt
 

post #148 of 250
Wow I have read all five pages on this thread and still no closer to finding a set that I really want. I currently have a Samsung HL-S6187W 61-Inch 1080p DLP HDTV that I really like. However I feel it may be time for a new 60-65 inch 3D TV. I game alot and love the response time of my current DLP set and since there really is no DLP 3D set available I am not sure what to do. I think the passive LG set is nice but have no clue on how these sets work as a Home Theather and Gaming TV. If anyone has any insight to helping me I would really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

HDave-
post #149 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDave View Post

I game alot and love the response time of my current DLP set and since there really is no DLP 3D set available

Mitsubishi has 3D DLP sets.

I have the 73838 and love it. 3D is amazing at 73".
post #150 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post

Mitsubishi has 3D DLP sets.
I have the 73838 and love it. 3D is amazing at 73".

Thank you I did not know that. I will look into them tomorrow. Edit: Could not wait. Seems that Mitsu no longer sells the 60 or the 65. And the 73 is just to damn big for my taste. So now I am back to square one. I really wish people didnt get so hung up on the thin-ness of the TV or DLP would still be around. I really like how DLP looks and how quick the responce time is with video games. And the fact that you do not need to worry about image retention with DLP.
Edited by HDave - 6/13/12 at 11:40pm
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