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Econowave Deluxe build

post #1 of 38
5/21/12 at 1:06pm
Thread Starter 
Nearly complete, I had posted this at parts express. Still need to put in the crossovers in the other two boxes, and gasket the back, then listen































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post #2 of 38
5/21/12 at 2:51pm
Love the look! The side Ports are a sexy addition, are you going to swap the speakers from side to side to see which direction is best for the port in your application/room? The speakers look a lot like my qsc kw122's. Can't wait to see what you think of these.
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post #3 of 38
5/21/12 at 3:56pm
Gorgeous.
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post #4 of 38
5/21/12 at 4:00pm
NICE! I like the round overs for the woofer.
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post #5 of 38
5/21/12 at 4:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post

Gorgeous.

+1 Good stuff.
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post #6 of 38
5/21/12 at 4:55pm
Those came out really nice.
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post #7 of 38
5/21/12 at 6:31pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys--I managed to get two finished this evening but haven't had time to get them tested out yet. I'll finish up the third tomorrow, and then give them a thorough listening

I'm moved from 6.2f swans +center, to 3 stentorians, and now these. The stentorians I like better than the swans--full sound, very detailed--and can get crazy loud without distortion. I'll be curious to see what these guys will do.

Only powering with a denon 4311--hopefully that will have enough punch to drive them and make them punchy
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post #8 of 38
5/21/12 at 7:05pm
What its the approximate sensitivity of these bad boys? I would think that you wouldn't need anything more than the 4311 since I bet those econo speakers probably are upwards of 97DB sensitive...?
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post #9 of 38
5/22/12 at 5:14am
Thread Starter 
superedge88, i'm not sure what these end up -- I'm sure they're north of 90db, unsure if zilch ever posted final sensitivity for them.
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post #10 of 38
5/22/12 at 5:37am
Very nicely done. I look forward to hearing your impressions.
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post #11 of 38
5/22/12 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
finished all three--here they are in their temporary home--until I can build the wall forward to allow them to fit behind the screen. The subs will also be hidden then as well.

I haven't been able to listen to them much yet--but i turned audyssey off and listened to a couple clips--they're very detailed and have a decent bit of punch. Hopefully I'll have a chance tomorrow to listen a bit more and calibrate/measure.

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post #12 of 38
5/22/12 at 6:35pm
That looks like a nice setup...I like the side ports, reminds me of Penngrey's version from a couple of years ago.

I bet they sound great with thos subs.

Rock Chalk?
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post #13 of 38
5/22/12 at 6:37pm
That is one insane setup! For your ears sake I sure hope it's a really big room...
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post #14 of 38
5/22/12 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

That looks like a nice setup...I like the side ports, reminds me of Penngrey's version from a couple of years ago.

I bet they sound great with thos subs.

Rock Chalk?

Yes, rock chalk indeed. until the final four anyway

My design definitely wasn't original. I think I read a few hundred pages of builds and Zilch's threads on a couple different sites. I think augerpro? had some that I copied a bit --layout wise.

Side firing ports will work well behind the screen. Figured they wont need to be set off the wall, and won't blow the screen with port-air.

--room isn't terribly huge, but the floorplan opens up... its about 24-25' long, 16-18' wide in this space though.
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post #15 of 38
5/22/12 at 7:10pm
Thread Starter 
just noticed how much the iphone distorted the center channel size lol--they're all identical in size, which im sure you could have guessed by the waveguides being the same... but figured id mention it.

here's a shot of the back:



inside before closing it up:



waveguide coated with sound deadening:



double gasket around the back lip:



they were all done identically, except one speaker has a port firing the opposite direction for (L) vs. (R) sides.
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post #16 of 38
5/22/12 at 7:15pm
Hope you have room behind the screen to toe those WAY in.
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post #17 of 38
5/22/12 at 7:28pm
Thread Starter 
seeing as how I havent built the wall out, it shouldn't be a problem. However, I don't know how much I"ll really need to toe-in. They seem to broadcast off axis quite well.
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post #18 of 38
5/22/12 at 8:32pm
Great looking setup!
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post #19 of 38
5/23/12 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post

However, I don't know how much I"ll really need to toe-in. They seem to broadcast off axis quite well.

That's not the issue; see http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=20.0

Even if there's only a single centered listener, toe-in has benefits of reducing undesirable early reflections from the near side wall, and increasing beneficial late reflections from the far side wall.
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post #20 of 38
5/23/12 at 12:48pm
fantastic! the cabs look great.
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post #21 of 38
5/23/12 at 1:51pm
Sweet!

Nice job on the LF driver round-over, and subsequent mounting...a lot of work and good result.

Any measurements you could eventually share would be greatly appreciated. Also, regarding the toe in, as Noah noted, it's all about inter-aural cross-correlation coefficient (IACC), and managing the energy off the near side-wall, and fostering the energy off the opposite rear side-wall. Image specificity w/envelopment, and spaciousness is the goal. Easier said than done, sure. But it's all well understood and documented fully.

Your build is fantastic. Sweet, high output-low distortion designs is essentially a must for realistic playback. Optimizing such is key.

Great job....
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post #22 of 38
5/23/12 at 3:02pm
Thread Starter 
Ya I read the paper that they linked/referred to--interesting, and I get the concept. But if the speakers are at the edge of the screen (103" wide) it's basically slightly less wide than my seating on either side. It's not terribly extreme L/R wise, so I'd think the toe-in wouldn't have to be terribly drastic unless I kept them how they are now (with toe-in).

I'll figure it--Ill try to get some measurements as well. I don't have the best equipment for that, rat shack meter plus rew... but I"ll do my best...
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post #23 of 38
5/24/12 at 12:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post

But if the speakers are at the edge of the screen (103" wide) it's basically slightly less wide than my seating on either side. It's not terribly extreme L/R wise, so I'd think the toe-in wouldn't have to be terribly drastic unless I kept them how they are now (with toe-in).

Actually your situation makes the toe-in even more crucial to keep the image from being pulled to the side for the listeners at the ends.
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post #24 of 38
5/24/12 at 2:37pm
Jayhawk, those look great, and I love the finish! I have just one suggestion: Since you have fiberglass inside the boxes, you might want to consider adding a thin piece of speaker cloth to the inside of the port to keep that stuff from blowing all over your theater. Alternatively, you might consider polyfill or even acoustic foam as a substitute liner.

Great work!

John.
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post #25 of 38
5/24/12 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
probably a good idea--they'll be behind the screen/behind something before too long.. so hopefully that will be enough.
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post #26 of 38
5/24/12 at 6:24pm
Kind of a shame to hide them behind the screen actually. Nice looking speakers.
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post #27 of 38
5/25/12 at 4:58am
What did you use to finish them with?

Regarding toe in, I've found that it's needed with just about every kind of speaker. With a constant directivity type speaker, you can achieve a wide sweet spot along with sharp imaging. I know of no other type of speaker that can do both at the same time. With omni and dipoles you can get a wide sweet spot and a big sound stage at the cost of sharpness.

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...
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post #28 of 38
5/25/12 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...



+1

Audio 101, ... proper aiming of your mains
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post #29 of 38
5/25/12 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk785 View Post



Interesting that your econowaves look so similar to the 4pi but you do not need to put insulation between the horn and woofer. I was closing up one of my 4pi's, got distracted and did not insure the insulation piece was placed properly between the horn and woofer. (long story) Soon thereafter I could hear a weird feedback coming from the speaker on music playback. Not too loud but was there. Sure enough, open it up and the insulation was not placed properly when I re-installed the woofer. Anyways, just interesting how some things can be different between speakers.

Your speakers look great, by the way.
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post #30 of 38
5/26/12 at 7:39am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post

What did you use to finish them with?

Regarding toe in, I've found that it's needed with just about every kind of speaker. With a constant directivity type speaker, you can achieve a wide sweet spot along with sharp imaging. I know of no other type of speaker that can do both at the same time. With omni and dipoles you can get a wide sweet spot and a big sound stage at the cost of sharpness.

For some reason, I notice most don't really experiment with toe in very much, which is crazy because it's FREE! And easy ...

Used duratex roll on--pretty decent product, excellent coverage
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