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Which sub do I need?

post #1 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 
My room Is 13x11 x 9 height, What sub would be enough for this room?

I have Sony Speakers floorstanding, center and Satellites.


Its for 40%music 45% movies and 15% games.

I want it to sound very loud and with good extension

Which sub will suffice my needs?
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post #2 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:33am
This one

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

Seriously, what's your budget?
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post #3 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:33am
You forgot to include your BUDGET. How much do intend to spend?


Bill C
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post #4 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:48am
Thread Starter 
Opps sorry, my budget its about 500,

But besides my budget, Just a Question.

What would be the best Sub for that size of room?
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post #5 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:54am
Look at:

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Hsu VTF-2 MK4 http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

Epik Legend http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

Rythmik FV12 http://rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html
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post #6 of 34
5/23/12 at 11:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Look at:

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Hsu VTF-2 MK4 http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

Epik Legend http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

Rythmik FV12 http://rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

I alredy have seen this one but I dont know if those ones are too big or small for my room.

Personally I like to listeng movies and music at very high vol, And I mena high so my doors rattle.

I mean taking In count my room dimensions what should be an ideal sub por that room? listening in high vol.
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post #7 of 34
5/23/12 at 12:38pm
Thread Starter 
Are those the ones that fits my suggestions?


sorry for my english, Its not my native language


I own the JBL s120p II but that one doesnt go low enough
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post #8 of 34
5/23/12 at 12:43pm
In that tiny room, the low end of any sub will be raised significantly. The Premier Acoustics PA-150 has tremendous output above 40hz, but it does roll off down to its tune around 25hz. Putting it in your room should flatten that out, and give you ridiculous bass down to 25hz.

http://www.sounddistributors.com/buy...at_name=Search

$299 after code: subsp

Get two of them, one in each front corner.
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post #9 of 34
5/23/12 at 12:47pm
Thread Starter 
You meant that, more tiny more low ends fr?

or that if the specs says 20hz, in my room It wont go that low?

Sorry its getting harder to me to understand all this
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post #10 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
2 subs Its out of the equation. (space limited)

I need 1 Sub
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post #11 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:17pm
It's all about PVG, or pressure vessel gain. It's a fantastic aspect of acoustical physics whereby we benefit by a "free lunch".

Here is a contribution to a thread where I describe both Boundary Gain, and PVG to an individual in his theater build,....which is killer btw.

Good luck
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post #12 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:26pm
Every room has a point where it begins reinforcing the low frequencies at 12 db an octave (ideal, most rooms will be much less). Basically the smaller the room, the higher up in frequency you will begin receiving this free increase in spl. If your room is sealed, you will receive tons of free low frequency bass, you just need a sub that is capable of producing those frequencies. By placing a sub in the corner, you also theoretically gain an 18 db increase over anechoic response.

A pair of those PA-150s would be ridiculous in your room.

FOH's explanation is much better. A single PA-150 is still a lot of output.
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post #13 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:31pm
Up the budget a little and get a Rumba 12 or SVS SB-12NSD. Both are sealed and should do well in that room.
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post #14 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flickhtguru View Post

Look at:

Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus http://outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html

Hsu VTF-2 MK4 http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

Epik Legend http://epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

Rythmik FV12 http://rythmikaudio.com/FV12.html

+2 you said you play it loud with any one of these in that size room it will do just that and these will live longer when pushed a smaller sub will have a shorter life span when pushed and it sounds like you are going to crank it.
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post #15 of 34
5/23/12 at 1:50pm
Thread Starter 
My Room has a windows that is closed all the time and a the door off course the rest is concrete wall and the closet that is wood.

If it its front firing In what direction should I put It in the corner?
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post #16 of 34
5/23/12 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eltato999 View Post

My Room has a windows that is closed all the time and a the door off course the rest is concrete wall and the closet that is wood.

If it its front firing In what direction should I put It in the corner?

In a subwoofer it's not that important or you would not see down firing with that said don't place it right next to something without some clearance.
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post #17 of 34
5/23/12 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

It's all about PVG, or pressure vessel gain. It's a fantastic aspect of acoustical physics whereby we benefit by a "free lunch".

Here is a contribution to a thread where I describe both Boundary Gain, and PVG to an individual in his theater build,....which is killer btw.

Good luck

that's a good writeup... makes it very easy to visualize what is happening...
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post #18 of 34
5/24/12 at 4:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eltato999 View Post

I alredy have seen this one but I dont know if those ones are too big or small for my room.

Personally I like to listeng movies and music at very high vol, And I mena high so my doors rattle.

I mean taking In count my room dimensions what should be an ideal sub por that room? listening in high vol.

Yes any one of the $500-$600 subs I mentioned above will be amazing in your room. Your room is small and will pressurize very easily which means you will not only hear the bass but you will feel it especially the 20hz and below content.

I personally own dual Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Pluses, my room is 23'X11'X7.5' and they sound awesome.... Yes I am a lil biased toward the Outlaw, but everyone has their preferences and everyone hears and feels things slightly different. So take your pick you won't be disappointed.
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post #19 of 34
5/24/12 at 5:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eltato999 View Post

Opps sorry, my budget its about 500,

But besides my budget, Just a Question.

What would be the best Sub for that size of room?

If I were you I would look into the Outlaw plus for your budget, I believe you will be better off going that route esp. for movies. I own an Outlaw EX and a PA-150 as I can explain the difference, they are both very good subs but the advantage definitely goes to the Outlaw given its performance at lower frequencies. Dont get me wrong, the PA-150 is an excellent sub but its performance is best around the 40hrz and above, so in essance for music its works out great. It does somewhat good at the lower extension but not near as good as the Outlaw does .

Another advantage to the Outlaw would be the down firing ports as it may be a better situation for you as well.... easier to place. The PA-150 has a rear port that will need about at least 1-2ft of clearance if you are corner loading it, otherwise it will get pretty muddy.

You may want to look into the size of the subs as well, they are fairly large in a sence. Your room is only 13x11
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post #20 of 34
5/24/12 at 6:43am
Thread Starter 
Ok thanks for all your answers, The outlaw then.
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post #21 of 34
5/24/12 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by skally View Post

If I were you I would look into the Outlaw plus for your budget, I believe you will be better off going that route esp. for movies. I own an Outlaw EX and a PA-150 as I can explain the difference, they are both very good subs but the advantage definitely goes to the Outlaw given its performance at lower frequencies. Dont get me wrong, the PA-150 is an excellent sub but its performance is best around the 40hrz and above, so in essance for music its works out great. It does somewhat good at the lower extension but not near as good as the Outlaw does .

Another advantage to the Outlaw would be the down firing ports as it may be a better situation for you as well.... easier to place. The PA-150 has a rear port that will need about at least 1-2ft of clearance if you are corner loading it, otherwise it will get pretty muddy.

You may want to look into the size of the subs as well, they are fairly large in a sence. Your room is only 13x11


The thing we've been trying to explain is, in a 13x11 room that PA-150 will not be rolling off below 40hz. If the sub has a 4" port, it only needs 4" clearance from the wall.

The outlaw is no doubt great, but OP will not have a flat response. The low end of the sub will be completely elevated over the upper end.
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post #22 of 34
5/24/12 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The thing we've been trying to explain is, in a 13x11 room that PA-150 will not be rolling off below 40hz. If the sub has a 4" port, it only needs 4" clearance from the wall.

The outlaw is no doubt great, but OP will not have a flat response. The low end of the sub will be completely elevated over the upper end.

Oh I agree with what you are saying its just I was trying to point out the differences is all. In "theory" the 4" clearance from the wall should work but in my case it was muddy until I moved it out about a little over 12"... but then again it was corner loaded as well.
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post #23 of 34
5/24/12 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The thing we've been trying to explain is, in a 13x11 room that PA-150 will not be rolling off below 40hz. If the sub has a 4" port, it only needs 4" clearance from the wall.

The outlaw is no doubt great, but OP will not have a flat response. The low end of the sub will be completely elevated over the upper end.

Seems to me that what you are proposing is a very slippery slope. As I understand you, buyers have to somehow determine how much room gain and/or pressure vessel gain, and/or boundary reinforcement gain they are going to get and buy a sub that rolls off in the low bass otherwise they will get too much ultra low bass compared to mid-bass.

Somehow you know how much gain someone is going to get and that the PA150 has the exact correct amount of roll-off to compliment a small room, in this case 13 X 11 X 9.

At this point in time some form of EQ is built in to even modestly priced receivers and what EQ does best is tame peaks, and not fill in nulls.

Personally, I think SVS has the right idea in producing subs that measure flat from about 20Hz on up.
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post #24 of 34
5/24/12 at 8:28am
Can the OPs receiver EQ his sub?
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post #25 of 34
5/24/12 at 8:47am
Oh and FYI the corner to corner distance of his room is approximately half the wavelength of 30hz.
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post #26 of 34
5/24/12 at 8:52am
Thread Starter 
Actually Its an old receiver that has no Bass management at all. But what I actually have is a HTPC and Im using a Creative Xfi titanium connected to my receiver via analog rca cables so I can use the thx control panel of the creative to control all bass management, speakers level and distance. Right now with the JBL s120pII I have the freq cut at 80hz and all the speakers set to small. BC I know these speakes I have cant manage bass very well

My speakers and Receiver are this one

http://www.cnet.com.au/sony-muteki-h...-339280044.htm

I know its not a good system, but sounds well Its hard to me that I live In Vzla to buy things As we have to buy dollars and every dollar cost here 9bs (local currency)

Anyway I sell those 2 Sony subs and my brother gave me that jbl like 3 years ago, It was like night and day and sounds good but I know it lacks low freqs, sometimes I can feel tha freq with that jbl but peaks moments that my bed and floor rumble but when watchig LOTR the elephants scene or Cloverfield I want more hahaha sometimes its muddy I can see the drive moving a lot but no sound and no rumble on my room. soo :S

Last week I was watching Underworld and Batman Begins and I kind of like it but again the bass was there but not shaking.
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post #27 of 34
5/24/12 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Can the OPs receiver EQ his sub?

I don't know and that is a secondary issue. The real issue is the apparent "guessing game" about how much room gain, pressure vessel gain and boundary reinforcement any given room will have and trying to match all that gain up to a subwoofer that does not measure flat outdoors ground plane. Oh yeah, I guess listening position might come into play as well, but what the heck.

Given that logic, we can start to recommend the LAVA 12 sub that is under $300 with the AVS discount even though it is tuned to 44Hz. Cadence is another sub that has lots of midbass but rolls off in the ultra low bass. Josh Ricci is testing the Cadence CSX 15II for Audioholics and there is reason to believe it will test much like the PA 150 with lots of midbass but significant rolloff in the ultra low bass. There are quite a few subs priced under $300 that measure like mid-bass modules that could be recommended to those with smaller rooms.

If one could measure all the gain and had test measurements like those in the data-bass then maybe we could predict that the end result would be flat.
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post #28 of 34
5/24/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

I don't know and that is a secondary issue. The real issue is the apparent "guessing game" about how much room gain, pressure vessel gain and boundary reinforcement any given room will have and trying to match all that gain up to a subwoofer that does not measure flat outdoors ground plane. Oh yeah, I guess listening position might come into play as well, but what the heck.

Given that logic, we can start to recommend the LAVA 12 sub that is under $300 with the AVS discount even though it is tuned to 44Hz. Cadence is another sub that has lots of midbass but rolls off in the ultra low bass. Josh Ricci is testing the Cadence CSX 15II for Audioholics and there is reason to believe it will test much like the PA 150 with lots of midbass but significant rolloff in the ultra low bass. There are quite a few subs priced under $300 that measure like mid-bass modules that could be recommended to those with smaller rooms.

If one could measure all the gain and had test measurements like those in the data-bass then maybe we could predict that the end result would be flat.

The corner to corner distance of his room is approximately half the wavelength of 30hz. That is where the room will take over regardless of where the sub is placed. Distance to boundaries will determine how much gain he will get higher in frequency. The PA150 is tuned to 25hz. My recomendation is based on that subs measured response, factored with his room size, and this quote

Quote:


Personally I like to listeng movies and music at very high vol, And I mena high so my doors rattle.

He will be happy with any of these subs no doubt.
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post #29 of 34
5/24/12 at 9:55am
Yep, the Outlaw Plus or EX in Max Output will give you loud!
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post #30 of 34
5/24/12 at 6:42pm
For that size room almost any 12" sub will do well. The PL-200 or a pair of Klipsch RW-12d subs. I would personally go withthe Epik Legend for that size room. I think a good sealed sub will do wonders.
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