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VT50 Calibration - Page 6

post #151 of 184
You would have better luck in the plasma forum there is a vt 50 settings thread
post #152 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy1222 View Post

i just bought a vt50 55 us, not european in, i have little knowledge about calibration. The presets are decent, thx bright cinema is a bit too dim and the picture doesnt pop. I love how vivid mode makes the picture pop but it seems to dark. Does it matter if i let my tv age for 150 hrs before calibrating. Are there any calibration done profesionally anyone can share please. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Welcome to the forum. It appears you may have made certain erroneous assumptions about the design of consumer display technology, or have been misinformed by a persistent myth in the home theater community. Copying TV picture menu option values is not a reliable substitute for calibration, and has been documented to actually make it look worse than factory defaults in some cases. Please review this "sticky" thread at the top of this sub-section of the forum:

'Sharing display menu settings?'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055906

This additional LINK has another example of the unreliability of such practice.
post #153 of 184
To add to what George posted, I've tried most the settings that have been posted on the internet and they were all worst than one of the presets on the display. That preset was custom but I did have to make a few adjustments to it.
post #154 of 184
thank you all for your replies, it is very useful. I understand now why it would be use someone else's settings on my t.v. But as i mentioned, i really like how vivid mode makes the picture pop, my only issue with it is i heard this setting refered to as "torch mode". What does this mean and how can it effect my t.v. also another issue i have with vivd mode is it seems a bit to dark, it takes away some detail, and the colors seem over saturated, how can i improve these settings under vivid?

also, do i have to wait the 100-200 hrs to break in the tv before i calibrate it, cant i just calibrate it now. I probrably have about 50 hrs into it, i just got it a couple days ago.
Edited by aguy1222 - 3/19/13 at 3:06am
post #155 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy1222 View Post

thank you all for your replies, it is very useful. I understand now why it would be use someone else's settings on my t.v. But as i mentioned, i really like how vivid mode makes the picture pop, my only issue with it is i heard this setting refered to as "torch mode". What does this mean and how can it effect my t.v. also another issue i have with vivd mode is it seems a bit to dark, it takes away some detail, and the colors seem over saturated, how can i improve these settings under vivid?

also, do i have to wait the 100-200 hrs to break in the tv before i calibrate it, cant i just calibrate it now. I probrably have about 50 hrs into it, i just got it a couple days ago.
If you are watching any TV in "Vivid mode" you are viewing a substantially distorted picture. Please read at least the opening post in this thread to understand better what the purpose of display calibration is:

'Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021933

Please explain what you meant by this statement: "I understand now why it would be use someone else's settings on my t.v."

"Torch mode" typically means over driving a TV's capabilities by adjusting the picture settings at or near their maximum. The term originated in the days of CRT displays. Cathode ray tube displays use phosphors to produce a video image. Your plasma also uses phosphors. Phosphors have a limited lifespan. As they age, they lose brightness. They can also be over driven and become permanently damaged or "burned." This happens when a user tries to make the image brighter than the TV is capable of being without distortion of the picture. It also can happen when a static image is displayed too long on the screen, such as still computer images, game control screens, images from a menu, TV station logos, etc.

Your TV will last longer, and will produce a more accurate video image, if you refrain from using the "Vivid" mode. This mode is typically intended for use when attempting to overcome high ambient room lighting conditions while watching the TV. No TV in existence can produce its best image in the presence of high ambient light levels.

There is no reason why any TV should not be calibrated properly as soon as you get it. It may drift from the initial calibrated settings after a period of time, but can be readjusted to correct for this. Get a video system setup disc intended for beginning TV owners. Disney's 'World Of Wonder' disc, or 'Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics' from Joe Kane Productions, contain tutorial narration and images that will answer many of your questions.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
Edited by GeorgeAB - 3/19/13 at 10:42am
post #156 of 184
I received the digital video essentials hd calibration disc, which comes with 3 colored filters, red,blue,green. Because I am not getting it calibrated professionaly, should I still wait after the 100-200 hr break in period before I calibrate it using this disc?
post #157 of 184
if you are asking what t.v am I trying to calibrate or adjust its the Panasonic tc p55vt50.
post #158 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by aguy1222 View Post

..... Because I am not getting it calibrated professionaly, should I still wait after the 100-200 hr break in period before I calibrate it using this disc?
There is no reason why any TV should not be calibrated properly as soon as you get it. It may drift from the initial calibrated settings after a period of time, but can be readjusted to correct for this.
post #159 of 184
Hello guys:
I just got the upgrade getters so im on the fence on either getting a Lumagen Radiance mini or buying a Emotiva pre-amp with a AMP. Both setups will cost me around the same, so I'm looking on what will make a bigger impact right now. Either way I'll be getting both setups but I will have to wait a couple 2 months until I get the funds to buy the second setup. My calibration software is Calman 5 Enthusiast, my meters are a C6 and a i1pro 2 as you can tell i'm a rookie in calibration and live in the Dominican Republic so I can't go and test out equipment or buy used bc if I get a defective product it will sometimes cost me more to ship it out then back in, so I prefer to buy new. Right now I calibrated my 65in. VT50 plasma and the picture looks dim but that's because I set up the panel to LOW and I read somewhere that I will get better blacks and have a better picture if I set it to MEDIUM. I haven't had the chance to test this out but I will try on the next couple of days.
My question is if I do buy the Radiance mini will I see a big improvement in picture quality by calibrating the Vt50 and getting 21 steps white balance and 125 gamut correction and benefiting with the autocal, or should I buy the pre-amp and the amp and enjoy a better sound quality from my speakers?
Right know I have a Denon 1612 receiver so is not that I don't have a receiver I do, I just want to upgrade little by little and get what really is going to be a bigger impact right now and wait 2 month to get the other.
(sorry if a misspelled something English is not my first language , but I do want to perfect the universal language of Home theater. thanks in helping a beginner.)
post #160 of 184
Does anyone know just how independent the separate memories are for each input on the VT50? Does the same input store separate memories for each resolution?....Meaning could I calibrate separately for 480i vs 480p vs 720p vs 1080i vs 1080p on the Component Video input, or on the same HDMI input, etc?
post #161 of 184
hello guys:
i Just bought a Lumagen mini I also have a panasonic VT 50 the 65in version, my Calibration software is Calman 5. How should i approach my calibration. I calibrated my TV using the Custom picture mode before i got the lumagen should I just try to better that same picture mode or should I set it to THX Cinema and use the Lumagen to calibrate that picture mode which i read somewhere that it has that best blacks of all the other picture modes?
post #162 of 184
which thread would you like the response, this one or the lumagen thread? wink.gif

Personally I used the Lumagen to calibrate the THX mode of my VT50 EU mode, with only one reason, to solve the amazingly annoying brigthtness cap that the ISF modes have.
post #163 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wouter73 View Post

which thread would you like the response, this one or the lumagen thread? wink.gif

Personally I used the Lumagen to calibrate the THX mode of my VT50 EU mode, with only one reason, to solve the amazingly annoying brigthtness cap that the ISF modes have.
perfect thank you i will use that picture mode and calibrate it with the lumagen.
post #164 of 184
Anyone notice on a 50 series that there is some bad red in dim areas calibrated to warm 2. My 10% to 100% stimulus grayscale results are good, 10 has a little red spike but dE was like 3.8. It was suggest that what I am seeing is probably happening at 5%, and I should calibrate that out using 2pt adjustments for the low end. This makes sense, just wondering if any of you have run into this and what you might have done.

In Normal color temp I did not have a red problem, but I think there may have been some green issues. I did not check 5% when I had it calibrated to Normal because I did not know about this potential issue.

Thanks.
post #165 of 184
Chances are its you meter having a problem reading anything below and sometimes above 20. Pulse the fact that most all high end tv's only have a 10 Point grayscale, so you can't adjust the points in between, and that in its self can cause those kind of issues. The only way around your problem is adjust by eye.

ss
post #166 of 184
I just solved it with the suggestiong from Tom Huffman and others here. I calibrated 2pt High at 80%, then calibrated Low at 5% instead of 20/30. I then used 10pt adjustment to work out the kinks in 10-100. Red issue down low is gone.
post #167 of 184
How do you calibrate 5 when you only have a 10 point grayscale, there is no settings for 5 in a VT50. Pulse the fact its very unlikely your meter is going to be accurate and or repeatably at that low of a light setting.

I think you just got lucky.

ss
post #168 of 184
He is putting up a 80% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Highs and a 5% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Lows... The difference is the pattern Stimuli level while adjusting the Low controls for 2pts... depending on the display, Highs can affect anywhere from 100 - 50 (or less) and Lows can affect 0-50 (or more).. range just depends on the interaction and implementation on each model
Edited by turbe - 6/19/13 at 10:22pm
post #169 of 184
You read 5%, and adjust 2pt Low controls, like you would if you were doing 80%/30% in a normal 2pt. Instead I did 80%/5%. All that was required to fix the 5% green error was moving Red Low and Blue Low up a couple of clicks. Of course 10-50 were a little wonky, but I fixed those with 10pt. If you calibrate to 20/80% with 2pt, you are stuck with whatever 5% is and cannot fix it. In my case, 5% was BAD. So the suggestions I got made sense, use the 2pt grayscale adjustments for the low end to fix 5%.

As far as meter reliability, its obvious to the eye when the meter says its red high or green high, even at 5. The D3 pro continuously reads 5% almost identical every time, so its consistent.
post #170 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

He is putting up a 80% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Highs and a 5% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Lows... The difference is the pattern Stimuli level while adjusting the Low controls for 2pts...

Thanks, concise way of putting it wink.gif

One issue was 10%, it did not want to place nice in 10pt controls, so I left it as you see it. Its not perfect, but the dE is not bad at all.
post #171 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

You read 5%, and adjust 2pt Low controls, like you would if you were doing 80%/30% in a normal 2pt. Instead I did 80%/5%. All that was required to fix the 5% green error was moving Red Low and Blue Low up a couple of clicks. Of course 10-50 were a little wonky, but I fixed those with 10pt. If you calibrate to 20/80% with 2pt, you are stuck with whatever 5% is and cannot fix it. In my case, 5% was BAD. So the suggestions I got made sense, use the 2pt grayscale adjustments for the low end to fix 5%.

As far as meter reliability, its obvious to the eye when the meter says its red high or green high, even at 5. The D3 pro continuously reads 5% almost identical every time, so its consistent.

How large of an adjustment are you having to make at the 10% intervals (10,20,30...) to get 5% right?
post #172 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

He is putting up a 80% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Highs and a 5% Stimuli pattern when adjusting the Lows... The difference is the pattern Stimuli level while adjusting the Low controls for 2pts... depending on the display, Highs can affect anywhere from 100 - 50 (or less) and Lows can affect 0-50 (or more).. range just depends on the interaction and implementation on each model

Yes that may help and it is worth a try, but if you are using a 5% input stimulus on a plasma and using the low adjustment on a VT50 you are still going to have problems. imo by doing it that way you are generalizing not exacting. Run a 21 point GS test on that when you finish, I bet you will see problems.
You may or may not get lucky.

Take a look at this profile I just ran on my VT60, also see the link to the pre profile settings I used. .http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477675/lightspace-dps-free-display-check-version-of-lightspace-cms#post_23447929

ss .
post #173 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

How large of an adjustment are you having to make at the 10% intervals (10,20,30...) to get 5% right?

Jim, the 2pt adjustments for low to fix 5% were only a few clicks. I was then worried about how much adjustment it would require in 10pt because I'm not a fan of large grayscale or gamma adjustmens. What I found after calibrating rgb low for 5% and rgb high for 80, 10-40 had minor blue spikes. It just took a few clicks in each one to reduce blue. Did not take a lot of 2pt or 10pt adjusting. and I calibrate to a 2.25 target so gamma did not require much.

I'll be watching a lot of content the next two days so I'll report back if I see anything bad, but so far I fixed what I wanted to, and that was the color spike at 5% after a good 10pt calibration.

Another reason I like normal is because if there are 21 pt problems they should be blue, and that's the best one to have.
post #174 of 184
I fired up the VT50 a second so I could run 21pt, to make people happy.

Other than 5%, which is blue high and a dE of 7, 10-100 (using 5% increments) are close.

Gamma is still flat, except for a couple of points. 40 is the wrost one, 40% is 2.22, 45% is 2.27 and 50% is 2.22. Not worried about that.

Grayscale from 10, 15, 20, 25, etc... is comparable. generally you see 20% with a 1.1 dE, and 25% is 1 dE higher at 2.3, then 30% is back down to 1 dE. No biggie either.

For the entire 20 points measured, the avg gamma is 2.19 and a dE of 1.1.
post #175 of 184
I found an older thread where Chad recommended starting 2pt with 100 and 20, then making adjustments from there. Also noted the reddish blacks.
post #176 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

You read 5%, and adjust 2pt Low controls, like you would if you were doing 80%/30% in a normal 2pt. Instead I did 80%/5%. All that was required to fix the 5% green error was moving Red Low and Blue Low up a couple of clicks. Of course 10-50 were a little wonky, but I fixed those with 10pt. If you calibrate to 20/80% with 2pt, you are stuck with whatever 5% is and cannot fix it. In my case, 5% was BAD. So the suggestions I got made sense, use the 2pt grayscale adjustments for the low end to fix 5%.

As far as meter reliability, its obvious to the eye when the meter says its red high or green high, even at 5. The D3 pro continuously reads 5% almost identical every time, so its consistent.

This is exactly how I had to calibrate my ST60. When setting brightness I noticed the increased red in the low end. I ended up setting my low end to a 5 ire pattern & high end to a 75 ire.
post #177 of 184
@gadgtfreek

buzz sent me a pm that he confirmed on his VT50 with a klein that mll rises to 0.007 ftL in low panel mode and that it's stable at 0.002 ftL in both mid and high panel mode.
post #178 of 184
Meant to post in VT50 settings thread.
Edited by gadgtfreek - 6/21/13 at 4:52pm
post #179 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

10-4, its def a problem. I got about the same results, if you saw my previous post.

I was really surprised that 70-90 did not have some sort of drop, because the patterns have a lot of white on the screen when they are up, but I wont even pretend to act like I understand how they work. Zoyd could better do that.

If you look at your absolute luminances at those levels you'll see that they are lower than your windowed pattern results because of ABL (peak white will probably be down by quite a bit). But gamma is still ok at each level because the levels are all cut in the right proportion to maintain gamma from one step to the next, so it's the same as if you had calibrated to a lower peak white.
post #180 of 184
Thanks.

Just watched Warm Bodies on blu-ray, and it really looks good IMO. I'll have to get some hours behind me with some mixed content (DIsh Network recordings) to decide.
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