or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Get a second empire or other options.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Get a second empire or other options.

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
It looks like I'm finally ready to add another piece to my HT! I have one Epik Empire, and I'm wondering if I should add another one. My other option would be to sell the existing Empire and get a single JTR Cap or Submersive. I'm leaning towards the single cap with an upgrade path of duals.


The single Empire has good bass in my room now, but (of course) I'm looking for more.

My living room is 18.5 x 13 x 8 with a vaulted ceiling that opens into a 20 x 9.5 x 8 kitchen. There's also a hallway to the bedrooms connected to the living room.
post #2 of 23
Along his upgrade path, member bsoko2 had Quad Empires for a while. He now has triple Submersive HPs. Others have bought Caps and are very happy. Others are quite happy with a single or dual Submersives.

All 3 options are good ones. Still, if your instinct is to go with a single CAP now and add another later, that is an excellent way to go. You have to decide on the CAP PRO with the 2,400 watt amp or the CAP 1000, with the 1000 watt amp. I would go with the CAP PRO.
post #3 of 23
The statement that you want more seems to indicate a move up so a move to the SubM or Cap is the likely candidates.
post #4 of 23
Sell it and get a submersive or cap or fw or just donate it to me
post #5 of 23
Nothing wrong with wanting more, just figure out what you want more of.

Empires roll of rather sharply below 20 hz so you won't get much more output below that no matter how many you have. Or to put it another way, if more sub 20hz output is your goal, look in another direction. If not, then another Empire is the most cost effective way to go.

A submersive would be a step up for sure, but at significant cost. I would try to determine based on your listening material and output goals whether the cost would be worth it (it may be). After that exercise, figure out your desired end state, and work up to it in steps if you need to.
post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

Nothing wrong with wanting more, just figure out what you want more of.

Empires roll of rather sharply below 20 hz so you won't get much more output below that no matter how many you have. Or to put it another way, if more sub 20hz output is your goal, look in another direction. If not, then another Empire is the most cost effective way to go.

A submersive would be a step up for sure, but at significant cost. I would try to determine based on your listening material and output goals whether the cost would be worth it (it may be). After that exercise, figure out your desired end state, and work up to it in steps if you need to.

The sub 20 hz is an added bonues for sure, but I'm looking for more of the "feel it in your chest" variety "more" ... hah .. More "oomph" (I'm sure that's rather vague.)
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post


The sub 20 hz is an added bonues for sure, but I'm looking for more of the "feel it in your chest" variety "more" ... hah .. More "oomph" (I'm sure that's rather vague.)

50 to 60hz?
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

50 to 60hz?

maybe ...

The sub feels somewhat localized to the placement area. I get a nice solid sound out of it, but not particularly noteworthy. For example, I went to a live concert last month where the instrumental bass was unbelievable. The bass was almost a living organism that went through you. The overall sound was some of the best I've heard in a live situation. Hard to explain I guess ...
post #9 of 23
Are you using any kind of sub eq? Is your sub level matched with your mains?

If you are using eq it would tend to flatten the mid bass of the Empire, which could mean that your sub is capable of more output than you're getting, but has its mid bass attenuated by the EQ. It's tough to get that "club type" bass with a flattened response.

Where these questions are going is just to determine what is setting the limit on the output you're getting. Is the sub at its limit, is it the eq, or perhaps the sub is not "hot" enough for your liking?
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

Are you using any kind of sub eq? Is your sub level matched with your mains?

If you are using eq it would tend to flatten the mid bass of the Empire, which could mean that your sub is capable of more output than you're getting, but has its mid bass attenuated by the EQ. It's tough to get that "club type" bass with a flattened response.

Where these questions are going is just to determine what is setting the limit on the output you're getting. Is the sub at its limit, is it the eq, or perhaps the sub is not "hot" enough for your liking?

I'm using MultEQ XT. I did go through after that and double check the db levels with a Meter. The sub is set +6db from the Audyssey setup. I've ran REW in the past and my readings are decently flat. There is no eq setup though.

To clarify, The earlier comment about the bass wasn't a club type setting, but a live concert in a concert-hall setting.
post #11 of 23
I dont think your problem is just a sub, and you wont get what you're wanting from just adding a Cap. What mains are you running?
post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I dont think your problem is just a sub, and you wont get what you're wanting from just adding a Cap. What mains are you running?

Elemental designs ED-12's ....

Again, it sounds good ... just not pressurizing the room, enveloping, visceral bass.
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I'm using MultEQ XT. I did go through after that and double check the db levels with a Meter. The sub is set +6db from the Audyssey setup. I've ran REW in the past and my readings are decently flat. There is no eq setup though.

To clarify, The earlier comment about the bass wasn't a club type setting, but a live concert in a concert-hall setting.

Audyssey channel level of +6 seems a little on the high side for an Empire in that size room. Might placement be an issue?
post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpc716 View Post

Audyssey channel level of +6 seems a little on the high side for an Empire in that size room. Might placement be an issue?

The placement I have it in now has the best sound and REW measurements levels compared to the other placements.
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

The placement I have it in now has the best sound and REW measurements levels compared to the other placements.

Without knowing where your gain was set, I was just guessing about the level. Sounds like your placement is most likely fine.

If it's midbass you're after, I just have a hard time thinking you could be listening to music or other midbass content loud enough for the Empire to be running out of gas in your room if they are level with the ED's. I suppose it's possible.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

Elemental designs ED-12's ....

Again, it sounds good ... just not pressurizing the room, enveloping, visceral bass.

Okay, you should be good there. Have you tried really cranking your system, like with ear plugs in and cranking it? Those concert systems are just tons of 18" drivers producing insane SPLs. Even if you have a system capable of that, I'm not sure you will ever achieve the result without ear bleeding levels.
post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

The placement I have it in now has the best sound and REW measurements levels compared to the other placements.

Can you post your REW results?

Nulls and decay times can make the best subwoofers sound bad. You could have nulls in the midbass region that your looking for and decay times which makes the subwoofer sound less "impactful" or "slam".

Corner basstraps and a second subwoofer would be my choice. After installing superchunk style bass traps in the corners and a 10" thick bass trap behind the listen postion the bass from the sub is now more defined and "tigher" with a signifcant improvement in the midbass punch. Plus adding a second sub to improve the freq response and improve the system sensitivity.
post #18 of 23
You might want to check out this discussion

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1410942&page=2
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfive View Post

I'm using MultEQ XT. I did go through after that and double check the db levels with a Meter. The sub is set +6db from the Audyssey setup. I've ran REW in the past and my readings are decently flat. There is no eq setup though.

To clarify, The earlier comment about the bass wasn't a club type setting, but a live concert in a concert-hall setting.

Something is wrong.
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Something is wrong.

His speakers are 97db

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...oducts_id=1006
post #21 of 23
You need to get to a members house to hear what you want... We can go round and round. Any members in your area ?

Have you measured this sub yet, to see if its doing what its suppose to be doing ?
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

His speakers are 97db

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...oducts_id=1006

Gotcha.

Wasn't familiar with the ED speaker line.

Frankly, given that new (to me) wrinkle, I have trouble seeing how mid-bass/ 'punch you in the chest' bass could be the problem. What's the crossover set to? Is it possible you aren't giving those 12's on the mains enough chance to do some more work? And, while those horns will be nice and sensitive, maybe a little more power driving those woofers could help? What are you driving them with?
post #23 of 23
Redfive, your problem may be in your original post about how you have an open floorspace design in your house. The room where you have your system isn't sealed and the bass is following the path of least resistance by moving all through the house. No wonder you aren't feeling any chest pounding bass. Either figure out a way to seal the listening room off from the rest of the house or be prepared to drop 2 grand or more on more subwoofer or subwoofers.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Get a second empire or other options.