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Sierra-1 Sale Exacerbates HTIB Upgrade Fever

post #1 of 37
5/27/12 at 4:01am
Thread Starter 
I’ve been using a $450 HTIB for 6 months – it’s been a nice setup to learn on, but the more I learn, the more I want to upgrade. My original plan was to do a lot of listening at local dealers, maybe go to an audio trade show, and then do a 5.1 upgrade later this year for $1500-$2000...but the Sierra-1 sale makes me want to skip all the in between steps and UPGRADE NOW...

BUDGET
$2000 = 4x Ascend Sierra-1 + Sierra-1 center + 5x bass port plugs (save $200 during current sale)
(Original budget: $1000-$1500 for 5.0 speakers, $500 for subwoofer – Sierra-1’s were way out of budget, but sale pricing is tantalizing)

CURRENT ENVIRONMENT - please see attached diagram
12’ x 30’ living room/office in an apartment (can’t build a decoupled soundproof room, so bass can’t be intrusive to other apartments)

HDTV: 55” Panasonic GT30, Viera Connect Internet video streaming
HTPC: homebuilt w/HD Homerun & Hauppaugue TV tuners
BD Player: Oppo BDP-93 – BD, DVD, CD, SACD, DVD-A
HTIB: Yamaha YHT-595BL (Yamaha RX-V471 bundled w/small satellites + 8” subwoofer)
DVD Recorder: Toshiba RD-XS55, component video thru AVR to HDTV, optical audio to AVR
VCR: JVC HR-S9911U, S-video + RCA audio to DVD recorder, for digitizing old VHS tapes

7.7” x 18.9” shelf in TV stand for Center Channel Speaker

Listening Position 1: on couch in front of TV – critical listening & immersive movie/TV watching
Listening Position 2: at computer desk across room from TV – background music/TV
Other Listening: occasionally soft background music while doing chores in kitchen or down the hall in bedroom

REQUIREMENTS
90% Music: Rock/Pop/Alternative, Jazz, Classical/Orchestral – from MP3/FLAC, CD, SACD, DVD-A, FM Radio
Priority: clear vocals, good instrumental detail, well-articulated bass, holographic soundstage, good dynamics
Program Material Includes: Paul Weller, New Order, The Stone Roses, Everything but the Girl, Mark Knopfler, Gillian Welch, Trash Can Sinatras; Art Ensemble of Chicago, John Coltrane, Miles Davis, Sun Ra; Anonymous 4, Beethoven symphonies, Handel Water Music, Mozart piano concertos, Philip Glass

10% Movies/TV: Documentaries, Comedies, Science/Nature, Westerns, Police Procedurals, Science Fiction – from BD, DVD, HTPC recordings from TV tuners, Internet video streaming
Priority: clear dialogue, even with volume turned down at night
Program Material Includes: A Sunday in the Country, Amadeus, Blade Runner, Cave of Forgotten Dreams 3D, Community, Diner, Frontline, Futurama, Law & Order, Once Upon a Time in the West, Planet Earth (BBC), Saturday Night Live, The Lord of the Rings EE, The Princess Bride

ASCEND SIERRA-1
- read through 2 years of Sierra-1 threads on the Ascend website forums, plus some threads here at AVS, and various reviews on the internet – generally regarded as a very good to great speaker, and well worth its’ price, even when not on sale
- reportedly very non-fatiguing & neutral, detailed & revealing, with cohesive sound and good imaging
- bass goes low enough to often forgo subwoofer support – might be possible to hold off on subwoofer upgrade
- should just about fit into my TV stand’s 7.7” x 18.9” center channel shelf
- RX-V471 from HTIB should have enough power to drive Sierra-1’s
- also getting bass port plug kits to allow more options for fine-tuning sound
- 30-day trial means I would only be out ~$200 in shipping costs if I decide to return the Sierra-1’s
- 2-way bookshelf for center channel avoids MTM design issues
- 5 matched surrounds for best 5.1 music listening, and fully-capable surrounds should be able to pump more & fuller range sound to desk/work area and rest of apartment
- first try Sierra-1’s without subwoofer, or might be able to use with HTIB 8” subwoofer for a while
- Sierra-1’s should definitely be a significant upgrade from my small HTIB speakers, but is it possible to upgrade too much? Would it be better to upgrade in smaller increments, over a couple of years? For example, first get $500 of SuperZeroes, then $1000 of KEF’s, then $1500 of PSB’s or Paradigms – instead of jumping immediately to $2000 of Sierra-1’s?
LL
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post #2 of 37
5/27/12 at 10:22am
http://www.nhthifi.com/NHT-Classic-T...&category=3830

And I know a coupon code you can PM for to get an extra 10% off of that.
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post #3 of 37
5/27/12 at 10:31am
What is the point of waiting? If you can afford the Sierra 1's now, I would say buy them while they are on sale and cut out the interim levels. Why do a gradual upgrade if you can get to the top right away? You're only going to be sitting there looking forward to your next upgrade and thus won't be happy.

If the Sierra's aren't your cup of tea then take advantage of their 30 day return policy.

It's like if you really want a Cadillac and are driving a Chevy, but Cadillac has a sale and you can afford one, why would you buy a Pontiac, then Oldsmobile, then Buick and finally move up to a Cadillac? Just take the straight shot.
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post #4 of 37
5/27/12 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkuboy View Post

It's like if you really want a Cadillac and are driving a Chevy, but Cadillac has a sale and you can afford one, why would you buy a Pontiac, then Oldsmobile, then Buick and finally move up to a Cadillac? Just take the straight shot.

Because you could buy a better Lincoln that is also on sale for an even lower price.

Soundstage Sierra measurements

Soundstage Classic Three measurements
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post #5 of 37
5/27/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

Because you could buy a better Lincoln that is also on sale for an even lower price.

Soundstage Sierra measurements

Soundstage Classic Three measurements

Obviously you are an NHT fan but measurements don't always tell the whole story. Regardless of which actual speaker (or car) it is, my point is that if you can get the "best" among choices then why settle for what is inbetween?

Whether it is a Cadillac or a Lincoln, the point is why settle for the middle? And whether Sierra or NHT, consider these instead of moving up the line with interim upgrades.
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post #6 of 37
5/27/12 at 12:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65 Electra Glide View Post

http://www.nhthifi.com/NHT-Classic-T...&category=3830

And I know a coupon code you can PM for to get an extra 10% off of that.

Wow, thanks - however, the Three C center won't fit into my TV stand. If my shelf were 3 inches wider, the Ascend CMT-340SE would have been an obvious choice.

Nice flat response and smooth bass rolloff on the Classic 3 charts. I know that measurements are done at standard reference levels 85db to 90db, but my daytime music listening is at 70db to 75db, and even lower at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkuboy View Post

Obviously you are an NHT fan but measurements don't always tell the whole story. Regardless of which actual speaker (or car) it is, my point is that if you can get the "best" among choices then why settle for what is inbetween?

Whether it is a Cadillac or a Lincoln, the point is why settle for the middle? And whether Sierra or NHT, consider these instead of moving up the line with interim upgrades.

Yeah, forget the interim stuff - 5x NHT Classic 3's is very interesting, especially since it would allow for a $500 sub and still stay within my $2000 budget. I need to research Classic 3's vs. Sierra-1's.

One approach would be to home audition 1 pair each of the Sierra-1's and Classic 3's, and return whichever I like less. But then the sales would be over when I order the final 3 speakers.

Any other speakers to consider vs. the Sierra-1's?
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post #7 of 37
5/27/12 at 12:39pm
Dont get those speakers for surrounds. Get the HTM200's. Now you can add a sub.

I would get the NHT's also if you can figure out the center issue, but the sierra's are still really good
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post #8 of 37
5/27/12 at 5:23pm
Love all the car analogies but I would prefer a Lexus....but most recently a member had compared the classic3 vs. the Sierra 1's and preferred the Sierras....another persons situation could've had varied results. They both offer no hassel return polices and NHT even offers free return shipping so you'll only pay shipping if you retrun the Sierras.

My 2 cents...

Here are his comments...btw... http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...87&postcount=5
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post #9 of 37
5/27/12 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Dont get those speakers for surrounds. Get the HTM200's. Now you can add a sub.

I would get the NHT's also if you can figure out the center issue, but the sierra's are still really good

It would be OK to spend an additional $500-$1000 for a sub in a few months, and dedicate the current $2000 to 5.0 speakers. And even though this has nothing to do with sound performance, I like the natural bamboo look of the Sierra-1's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Love all the car analogies but I would prefer a Lexus....but most recently a member had compared the classic3 vs. the Sierra 1's and preferred the Sierras....another persons situation could've had varied results. They both offer no hassel return polices and NHT even offers free return shipping so you'll only pay shipping if you retrun the Sierras.

My 2 cents...

Here are his comments...btw... http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...87&postcount=5

Thanks for the link - in my heart I would like to get the Sierra-1's (I've been steeping myself in the Kool-Aid over at the Ascend forums). It's just that a year ago when I was shopping for an HDTV, I thought TV speakers would be all I'd ever need for movies/TV and I'd just keep listening to music via headphones and my 1997 Cambridge SoundWorks 2.1 PC sound system. The obstacles are more psychological than financial.

IRT to cars, I actually walk and take the subway a lot b/c of where I am - but I won't mind taking an Audi S6 for a spin on the Autobahn...
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post #10 of 37
5/27/12 at 8:19pm
I would agree with Jay1 concerning the surrounds. Also, you might want to audition a pair of the Sierras and make sure that you like them before you go with an entire system. With the sale it's a great time to have a listen. I don't think you will be disappointed but you never know..........
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post #11 of 37
5/27/12 at 9:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocken_5110 View Post

Thanks for the link - in my heart I would like to get the Sierra-1's (I've been steeping myself in the Kool-Aid over at the Ascend forums). It's just that a year ago when I was shopping for an HDTV, I thought TV speakers would be all I'd ever need for movies/TV and I'd just keep listening to music via headphones and my 1997 Cambridge SoundWorks 2.1 PC sound system. The obstacles are more psychological than financial.

Taste the Kool-Aid. It is easy to spit out if you don't like it.
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post #12 of 37
5/28/12 at 11:21pm
Thread Starter 
I think a $550 12" sub would be OK for my room (Rythmik FV12, Outlaw LFM-1 Plus, HSU VTF-2 MK4) - will double-check w/Ascend.

OK, I tried calling but apparently Ascend has taken a Memorial Day holiday. Hopefully I can still get sale pricing tomorrow.
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post #13 of 37
5/29/12 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy p View Post

Love all the car analogies but I would prefer a Lexus....but most recently a member had compared the classic3 vs. the Sierra 1's and preferred the Sierras....another persons situation could've had varied results. They both offer no hassel return polices and NHT even offers free return shipping so you'll only pay shipping if you retrun the Sierras.

My 2 cents...

Here are his comments...btw... http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...87&postcount=5

Lexus? Good golly, why? Except perhaps the LFA the rest are for old people who can't drive very well. Safe and sedated...

OP--Ascend Sierras aren't likely to disappoint but they still need a sub and in surround duty the 200SE or 170SE do very nicely (I have all of them) so go LCR with the Sierra so you can afford a sub....
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post #14 of 37
5/29/12 at 4:03pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice - I've come to like 5.1 music listening so much with my little HTIB that I want to do it with 5x Sierra-1's. Also, I live in a creaky wood-frame apartment building, so extreme bass would leak out to the neighbors like crazy. And, I'm not a bass-heavy in my music listening and don't really watch explosion-filled movies (one of my favorite movies has a 1.0 soundtrack).

I'm in the middle of reconfiguring this year's photo equipment budget, which potentially frees up $1300-$3200. So once again, the obstacle is more psychological than financial. I understand the economy of a $1900 camera lens, but I'm still on the learning curve to accepting the value of a $900 subwoofer.
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post #15 of 37
5/29/12 at 4:31pm
In your enviroment you'll probably still get enough bass to annoy the neighbors in any case . While they'll sound good it'd be like your lens not quite capturing the full visible spectrum...
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post #16 of 37
5/29/12 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
The old wood floors in my room are so elastic that when I walk by the coffee table with a glass of water on it, the top of the water will shimmy back and forth. I've posted my pre-purchase questions at the Ascend forums to see what feedback people might have.
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post #17 of 37
6/6/12 at 2:43pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks, everyone - I've ordered 5x Sierra-1's.
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post #18 of 37
6/20/12 at 1:21pm
Congrats Brocken! How do you like your new setup?

I've just ordered a pair of Sierra-1s myself, and am waiting anxiously for them. How long is the build/test/delivery time?
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post #19 of 37
6/20/12 at 10:53pm
Thread Starter 
The Sierra-1's are good. Have had them for 9 days; working on fine-tuning the set-up.

My speakers shipped out within 2 business days of ordering, and arrived via UPS Ground - that should take a day for SoCal to NorCal. You'll probably have your Sierra-1's early next week, or by this weekend if the planets all align for you. Each speaker had a FR test printout timestamped just hours before UPS received the package - very nice.

When I spoke with Dina Ly at Ascend Acoustics a few weeks ago, she had mentioned that there is a limited supply of Sierra-1 tweeters, and when I placed my order, she slipped in a last-minute attempt to upsell me on the NrT tweeters - so build/test/ship time may be contingent on whether you ordered the regular or NrT version. If I remember correctly, there is no supply issue with the cabinets, so the cabinet finish you ordered should have no effect on arrival time.

Will you Sierra-1's be replacing existing speakers, or for a new set-up?
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post #20 of 37
6/21/12 at 2:32pm
I received an email last night that my Sierra 1s are on their way! I had ordered them on Monday, and they'll be here tomorrow (Friday). smile.gif

I'm replacing two small satellite speakers (DefTech ProCinema 600). The DefTechs sound good with movies... the satellites are crisp and the sub sounds good for LFE. But when it comes to music, they don't deliver. So I've been testing various speakers, and tried to find something that is good at both (70/30 movies/music). Mainly I'm looking for speakers that have lots of detail (for watching movies) without adding their own color to the soundtrack (for listening to music).

So based on this, I've decided to give the Sierra-1s a try (with the NrT upgrade for crisp movie-soundtrack detail) because nobody seems to have buyer's remorse, and because I'm really impressed by Ascend's business model. biggrin.gif
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post #21 of 37
6/21/12 at 3:11pm
^^^
Hey congrats--be sure and post your impressions after you get them setup.
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post #22 of 37
6/21/12 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbikerjc View Post


So based on this, I've decided to give the Sierra-1s a try (with the NrT upgrade for crisp movie-soundtrack detail) because nobody seems to have buyer's remorse, and because I'm really impressed by Ascend's business model. biggrin.gif
Ascend's business model and vendor/OEM relationships is what sets them apart from other ID speaker companies.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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post #23 of 37
6/21/12 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbikerjc View Post

I received an email last night that my Sierra 1s are on their way! I had ordered them on Monday, and they'll be here tomorrow (Friday). smile.gif
I'm replacing two small satellite speakers (DefTech ProCinema 600). The DefTechs sound good with movies... the satellites are crisp and the sub sounds good for LFE. But when it comes to music, they don't deliver. So I've been testing various speakers, and tried to find something that is good at both (70/30 movies/music). Mainly I'm looking for speakers that have lots of detail (for watching movies) without adding their own color to the soundtrack (for listening to music).
So based on this, I've decided to give the Sierra-1s a try (with the NrT upgrade for crisp movie-soundtrack detail) because nobody seems to have buyer's remorse, and because I'm really impressed by Ascend's business model. biggrin.gif

I don't think you'll be disappointed by the Sierra 1s. Like going from a Specialized to a Santa Cruz! Or a Trek to a Moots! (personal prejudice included wink.gif ) Where do you ride?
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post #24 of 37
6/21/12 at 7:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbikerjc View Post

I received an email last night that my Sierra 1s are on their way! I had ordered them on Monday, and they'll be here tomorrow (Friday). smile.gif
I'm replacing two small satellite speakers (DefTech ProCinema 600). The DefTechs sound good with movies... the satellites are crisp and the sub sounds good for LFE. But when it comes to music, they don't deliver. So I've been testing various speakers, and tried to find something that is good at both (70/30 movies/music). Mainly I'm looking for speakers that have lots of detail (for watching movies) without adding their own color to the soundtrack (for listening to music).
So based on this, I've decided to give the Sierra-1s a try (with the NrT upgrade for crisp movie-soundtrack detail) because nobody seems to have buyer's remorse, and because I'm really impressed by Ascend's business model. biggrin.gif
You're going to be having a fun weekend!

The DefTech ProCinema 600 is highly rated at Amazon.com, but it's still limited by the physical reality of 3" mid/bass drivers. My HTIB speakers were of a similar design - OK for movies, but music revealed how thin they were. I'm listening to John Coltrane's "Blue Train" album on my Sierra-1's right now: the horns are detailed and fast, the cymbals are crisp and shimmery, the bass is full-bodied, and the soundstage has a substantial dimensionality. For movies, I've found that dialogue is quite intelligible even during low volume listening at night. And this is with the non-NrT Sierra-1's.

You've obviously done your research to be able to match the NrT Sierra-1's to your detail and neutrality requirements - I think you'll conclude that you chose well.

Do you plan to combine the Sierra-1's & your DefTechs to create a 7.1 system? If so, issues of center speaker and subwoofer matching may come up...
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post #25 of 37
6/22/12 at 12:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I don't think you'll be disappointed by the Sierra 1s. Like going from a Specialized to a Santa Cruz! Or a Trek to a Moots! (personal prejudice included wink.gif ) Where do you ride?

I like riding in Rockville near Fairfield, you get to ride the single tracks there. biggrin.gif Sad to say I haven't had a chance to ride this year. Last time I rode was at Sierra Azul near Los Gatos, and it kicked my posterior wink.gif I'll have to tune up my bike to try it again. Where do you ride?
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post #26 of 37
6/22/12 at 12:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocken_5110 View Post

Do you plan to combine the Sierra-1's & your DefTechs to create a 7.1 system? If so, issues of center speaker and subwoofer matching may come up...

Yup! I'll be using the the four DefTech satellites for the surround and rear channels of a 7.1 setup. biggrin.gif

I've already replaced the center channel speaker with a B&W HTM61, but I somewhat regret this purchase. The speaker has lots of detail and good bass, but to me it doesn't sound very neutral. I was originally thinking of upgrading the DefTechs with a B&W setup (mostly because they look nice), and got the HTM61 to start things off. But now that I've done more of my hw, I realize how important it is for me that the speakers be as neutral as possible. So for now, I'll be using the Sierra-1s with the HTM61 center and the DefTech surrounds. If I'm blown away with the Sierra-1s, I may sell the HTM61 and get another Sierra-1 for the center channel. As for the DefTech satellites, I think they'll be great surround speakers and hopefully neutral enough to match the Sierra-1s. smile.gif
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post #27 of 37
6/22/12 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbikerjc View Post

I like riding in Rockville near Fairfield, you get to ride the single tracks there. biggrin.gif Sad to say I haven't had a chance to ride this year. Last time I rode was at Sierra Azul near Los Gatos, and it kicked my posterior wink.gif I'll have to tune up my bike to try it again. Where do you ride?

I live up on Skyline, Skeggs is a bit to the north, Russian Ridge/Stevens Canyon a bit to the south, but I've ridden just about everywhere you can (and some places you shouldn't wink.gif ) in the bay area altho Sierra Azul is one of the few I haven't (and it's been a few years since I've been to Rockville). Mountain biking is my main thing, even more so than a/v. I was off the bike too much this year, but have been doing road rides locally and that last climb up to the house on Old La Honda is getting me in shape rapidly.... I'm a fairly well equipped bike mechanic too so if ya ever want to check my setup out and go for a ride...

Ascend speakers are my current favorites (have Sierra-1s, 170SEs, 200SEs) to get back on subject smile.gif
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post #28 of 37
6/22/12 at 11:41am
Geez...makes me want to ride again. Nowadays, I'm lucky if I get my bike out to the Strand.
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post #29 of 37
6/22/12 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

Geez...makes me want to ride again. Nowadays, I'm lucky if I get my bike out to the Strand.

I used to ride the entire beach path when I lived in Santa Monica, nice and flat but a bit too many tourists. Nowadays just to get back home the last bit is a 1300' climb in 3.3 miles (actually a bit more than that, that's just Old La Honda Rd itself and I'm a bit further up). Get on that bike!
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post #30 of 37
6/22/12 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brocken_5110 View Post

Do you plan to combine the Sierra-1's & your DefTechs to create a 7.1 system? If so, issues of center speaker and subwoofer matching may come up...
Wow, the Sierra-1s blew me away. I started with Miles Davis, and it was awesome. I liked listening to the trumpet blaring while the piano was mellow and smooth in the back. Also like Brocken said about listening to John Coltrane, the cymbals do sound crisp and shimmery with the Sierra-1s. I then put in Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" and my ears were crying with joy. I've been listening to this album since I was a kid, and I finally got to hear some detail I'd never heard before. Specially while listening to "Money." The guitar squealed beautifully, the drums were smooth, and the bass didn't sound boomy at all. I was really impressed to distinguish the directionality for the various drums. Excellent soundstage.
Next I put on Pearl Jam's "Ten" album just for kicks. I listened to "Even Flow" and "Alive," and I'm relieved that I didn't sense any fatigue from the NrTs. I also like how these speakers reproduce the electric guitar and distortion effects really well and sound neutral. These speakers do rock. cool.gif

Now for HT, I watched TRON Legend. This movie has lots of electronic sound effects that these speakers reproduced very well. Tons of detail for watching movies, I'm very pleased. Now I need to find someone to buy my HTM61 so that I can get a Sierra-1 center channel speaker. As for my DefTechs, I thought the DefTech ProCinema 600 sub and satellites matched well with the Sierra-1s (for movies, not music). I wired the surround satellites through the sub and set the sub's crossover frequency at 100Hz, and this configuration made the surround channels sound fuller than before (I used to have the surround satellites wired directly to the receiver, and had the fronts wired through the sub). I think in this configuration, the satellites sound full enough to match them with the Sierra-1s. I think I'll keep them. smile.gif
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