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Speakers for New Home Build-2K Budget

post #1 of 29
5/27/12 at 11:09am
Thread Starter 
Need speakers in great room, no room for towers.

Would pre-configured 5.1 system be enough or would I need bookshelf speakers?

View attached jpg for floor plan for layout.

TV Cabinet has no top, A/V Cabinet has Top 72" from floor with grills on top for venting.

Speaker Location:
Rear: On Soffet where 10ft great room and 9ft dining/kitchen ceiling meet.
Front: On wall behind TV and A/V cabinet or on side of fireplace and A/V Cabinet wall.
Center: In TV cabinet on shelf below TV.
Sub: Bottom of TV cabinet next to A/V Cabinet or somewhere in great room if wireless
sub selected.

I have looked over some Bookshelf and Home Theatre Systems but will consider all recommendations.

Home Theatre:
Definitive Technology ProCinema 800
Cambridge Audio S325 or S525
KEF T100,T105,T205 and T305

Bookshelf:
Definitive Technology - have not full reviewed yet, advice needed.
KEF - IQ30(f),IQ10(r),C4 (Sub), (Center)IQ60,C6,T101,T301
POLK - RTI A39(f)+(r)?,TSI 100(r),CSI A6(center),DSWprowi,DSWpro or PSWi225.

Thanks,
Scott
LL
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post #2 of 29
5/27/12 at 11:53am
Hsu VTF2 MK4 to start.

then go with monitor audio BX2 front and rear, with the center channel.
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post #3 of 29
5/27/12 at 12:01pm
These are on sale. Maybe they would fit your needs?

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages...SRM1/srm1.html

Jeff
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post #4 of 29
5/27/12 at 12:12pm
Wow you got some tough placement constraints! Any reason you wont put speakers on stands just in front of the TV on each side?
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post #5 of 29
5/27/12 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Wow you got some tough placement constraints! Any reason you wont put speakers on stands just in front of the TV on each side?

This is our main living area and not a dedicated Home Theatre room so we need place speakers on back wall of TV cabinet, or on sheetrocked fireplace wall and sheetrocked wall next to a/v cabinet so speakers are out of the way.

Thanks,

Sc0tt
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post #6 of 29
5/27/12 at 12:40pm
Any specific size constraints?

I'm also shopping for 5.1 speakers in the $2000 price range, with $1500 going to 5.0 speakers and $500 for a subwoofer:

Ascend Acoustics CMT-340SE + CMT-340SE center + sub
NHT Classic 3 + Three C center + NHT sub (Memorial Day sale)
PSB Image B6 + Image C4 center + sub
Wharfdale Diamond 10.2 + 10.CS center + sub
Paradigm Series 7 Mini Monitor + Center 1 + sub
Mordaunt Short Aviano 2 + Aviano 5 Center + sub
KEF Q300 + Q200c center + sub (goes a little over $2000)

$500 subs from HSU Research and Outlaw Audio should be pretty good complements for any of the above speakers

Do you want the speakers for home theater only (e.g. sound effects and dialogue), or do you also want a degree of musicality?
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post #7 of 29
5/27/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

This is our main living area and not a dedicated Home Theatre room so we need place speakers on back wall of TV cabinet, or on sheetrocked fireplace wall and sheetrocked wall next to a/v cabinet so speakers are out of the way.

Thanks,

Sc0tt

Well, take all the regular speakers off your list. I'm guessing the A/V cabinet is not recessed flush with the wall, so what ever speaker you place there will have serious reflection issues.

For your LCR place 3 of these up high so they're angled down at the seated area, and not blocked by your tv/cabinet.

(pair) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Surround.html

(single) http://www.instrumentpro.com/P-JBL8320?source=froogle

That's $750, I'm not exactly sure how your surround placement works but you can use these for that obviously if it's wall mounted. That leaves $800 for the sub. This HSU VTF3 for $760 shipped is what you want with a large room

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html
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post #8 of 29
5/27/12 at 11:05pm
Go try the Vandersteen VLR Wood bookshelfs for $1149 per pair.
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post #9 of 29
5/28/12 at 6:23am
I say get KEF or NHT (Absolute Zero, SuperZero, etc) + Rythmik FV12 subwoofer.
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post #10 of 29
5/28/12 at 3:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I say get KEF or NHT (Absolute Zero, SuperZero, etc) + Rythmik FV12 subwoofer.

Thanks to all for responding.

I will research all of the recomendations, the variety of recomendations is interesting.

Thanks,

Scott
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post #11 of 29
5/29/12 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I say get KEF or NHT (Absolute Zero, SuperZero, etc) + Rythmik FV12 subwoofer.

AcuDefTechGuy,

Is it ok to put the Rythmik FV12 subwoofer in bottom of TV cabinet, it will be open in front of sub, and can that sub be place on it's side since sub is tall at 22"(H).
Rythmik FV12 subwoofer dimensions:16 (W) "x 22" (H) x19" (D) (20-1/2" D with grille).

And can I mount bookshelf speakers on wall without huge sound penalty, or depends on where I mount them?
Rears would mount on soffet behind couch
Center speaker would be under TV in TV cabinet with an opening. Center speaker would not be a bookshelf.

Thanks,

Sc0tt
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post #12 of 29
5/29/12 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

AcuDefTechGuy,

Is it ok to put the Rythmik FV12 subwoofer in bottom of TV cabinet, it will be open in front of sub, and can that sub be place on it's side since sub is tall at 22"(H).
Rythmik FV12 subwoofer dimensions:16 (W) "x 22" (H) x19" (D) (20-1/2" D with grille).

And can I mount bookshelf speakers on wall without huge sound penalty, or depends on where I mount them?
Rears would mount on soffet behind couch
Center speaker would be under TV in TV cabinet with an opening. Center speaker would not be a bookshelf.

Thanks,

Sc0tt

I see no problem with any of that.

Speakers on wall may not be ideal, but it helps when you have great speakers.
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post #13 of 29
5/29/12 at 11:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I see no problem with any of that.

Speakers on wall may not be ideal, but it helps when you have great speakers.

AcuDefTechGuy,

I have narrowed selection to NHT Classic3 for fronts, 3c for center and absolute zero for rear speakers.

Question I have is for sub: NHT B-12d or the Rythmik FV12?

NHT has package for the NHT speakers I listed and B-12d sub for $2,199
I could get the same NHT speakers(($1,700) and Rythmik FV12 sub($549) for $2,250.

Both are over 2K, but I can handle the extra $200-$250 cost given the quality of sound.

Thanks,

Scott
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post #14 of 29
5/29/12 at 11:44am
If you are going to mount the Classic Three on the wall, behind the TV
and 2.2 ft back of the front of the cabinet - If you don't mind them bad
reflections and bounce to cancel out overall good sound, to hinder image
and soundstaging and bring a somewhat muddy sound - then you will be
fine. At least it will be better than TV speakers. If you buy a sub that you
will need to place on its side, then put something (padding), between the
subwoofer cabinet and the bottom shelf.
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post #15 of 29
5/29/12 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

AcuDefTechGuy,

I have narrowed selection to NHT Classic3 for fronts, 3c for center and absolute zero for rear speakers.

Question I have is for sub: NHT B-12d or the Rythmik FV12?

NHT has package for the NHT speakers I listed and B-12d sub for $2,199
I could get the same NHT speakers(($1,700) and Rythmik FV12 sub($549) for $2,250.

Both are over 2K, but I can handle the extra $200-$250 cost given the quality of sound.

Thanks,

Scott


Personally, I would get five Absolute Zero, if you can adjust the cabinet to fit it. It has superb frequency response measurement.

"The Absolute Zero's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/-15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/-0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The -3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the -6-dB point is at 72 Hz."

MEASUREMENT

I think the Rythmik FV12 will be higher quality and worth the price. It uses servo-direct technology to give you tight bass (Q=0.5), which usually equates to higher quality bass.
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post #16 of 29
5/29/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

If you are going to mount the Classic Three on the wall, behind the TV
and 2.2 ft back of the front of the cabinet - If you don't mind them bad
reflections and bounce to cancel out overall good sound, to hinder image
and soundstaging and bring a somewhat muddy sound - then you will be
fine. At least it will be better than TV speakers. If you buy a sub that you
will need to place on its side, then put something (padding), between the
subwoofer cabinet and the bottom shelf.

This is horrible placement for any speaker...

OP, go back and look at those JBL's I linked again and think about how they could be mounted above the reflection points to avoid all of these issues.
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post #17 of 29
5/29/12 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

This is horrible placement for any speaker...

OP, go back and look at those JBL's I linked again and think about how they could be mounted above the reflection points to avoid all of these issues.

I agree on speaker placement Jay1.


Sc0tt
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post #18 of 29
5/29/12 at 2:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Personally, I would get five Absolute Zero, if you can adjust the cabinet to fit it. It has superb frequency response measurement.

"The Absolute Zero's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/-15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.94/-0.82 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The -3-dB point is at 83 Hz, and the -6-dB point is at 72 Hz."

MEASUREMENT

I think the Rythmik FV12 will be higher quality and worth the price. It uses servo-direct technology to give you tight bass (Q=0.5), which usually equates to higher quality bass.

AcuDefTechGuy,

The center speaker slot in TV Cabinet is about 10-11" high so absolute zero bookshelf speaker would barely fit as center speaker if that is what you mean?


Thanks,

Sc0tt
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post #19 of 29
5/29/12 at 3:35pm
I have a question. If this is a new home build, then why are you trying to fit a square into a round hole?

I haven't seen a cabinet design like that for many, many years. Most cabinet designs place the equipment below the tv placement giving you a central look and more room.





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post #20 of 29
5/29/12 at 9:36pm
Thread Starter 
[quote=ifor;22077383]I have a question. If this is a new home build, then why are you trying to fit a square into a round hole?

I haven't seen a cabinet design like that for many, many years. Most cabinet designs place the equipment below the tv placement giving you a central look and more room.

Ifor,
Original builder plan had A/V closet with a/v rack on hallway side of fireplace.
I had them move it to a/v cabinet with slide out shelves on right side of TV cabinet, shorter cables being closer to TV etc. and it pushed TV to center of room, in builder plan TV was shifted to right corner and not centered.

I have a wide and open great room so there is space for upright a/v cabinet with ventilation grills on top of a/v cabinet and easy access to components, room for surge protector and battery backup system etc., and I have a lot of space on top of TV cabinet for large TV.
The TV cabinet does not have a top, just a bench for TV.
Your middle picture looks nice, how big is the TV? I plan to have a 70" TV and can go up to 80". Any heat issues with so many components behind closed doors?
Base on furniture location, the TV's in the other two pictures do not look as if the TV is primary focus in those rooms.

Thanks for comments and pictures,

Sc0tt
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post #21 of 29
5/29/12 at 10:34pm
you can get one of these packages from hsu. The vtf-15 is a beast of a sub and the ultra 15 is the most versatile for your placement requirements since the sub is wireless except for the power cord. But keep in mind that the bookshelves are ported so you would need some space in between the speaker and wall.

http://hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid3pkg.html
http://hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid15pkg.html
http://hsuresearch.com/products/ultra15pkg.html
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post #22 of 29
5/29/12 at 10:38pm
To be honest, I would place a rack in the closet directly behind the fireplace. Short cable runs to the tv and speakers. Then you don't take up any space in the great room. You will then have more storage in the cabinet design.

If you are going to stay with what you have, I would never use slide out shelves as this needs cabling to be twice as long as they need to be and it looks like a mess. I would instead suggest a pull out rack meant for cabinets. Look at Middle Atlantic for examples.

This is one of their less expensive ones.
http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/asr_hd.htm
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post #23 of 29
5/29/12 at 10:39pm
is there any way to post a cabinet rendering?
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post #24 of 29
5/30/12 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kushum View Post

you can get one of these packages from hsu. The vtf-15 is a beast of a sub and the ultra 15 is the most versatile for your placement requirements since the sub is wireless except for the power cord. But keep in mind that the bookshelves are ported so you would need some space in between the speaker and wall.

http://hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid3pkg.html
http://hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid15pkg.html
http://hsuresearch.com/products/ultra15pkg.html

kusham,

MK2 is a nice bookshelf speaker but big at 15x8x8 and I do not have room for stands; speakers will be mounted on wall. Have you seen them wall mounted?
I like 5.1 package pricing!

Thanks,

Scott
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post #25 of 29
5/30/12 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifor View Post

To be honest, I would place a rack in the closet directly behind the fireplace. Short cable runs to the tv and speakers. Then you don't take up any space in the great room. You will then have more storage in the cabinet design.

If you are going to stay with what you have, I would never use slide out shelves as this needs cabling to be twice as long as they need to be and it looks like a mess. I would instead suggest a pull out rack meant for cabinets. Look at Middle Atlantic for examples.

This is one of their less expensive ones.
http://www.middleatlantic.com/enclosure/roll/asr_hd.htm

ifor,
I attached cabinet drawing.
a/v rack in fireplace closet would have been further away than current a/v cabinet location.
I wanted sanus a/v rack in a/v cabinet but bottom of cabinet is a few inches off floor so moving rack in/out of a/v cabinet would not be easy.



Regards

Sc0tt
LL
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post #26 of 29
5/30/12 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

kusham,

MK2 is a nice bookshelf speaker but big at 15x8x8 and I do not have room for stands; speakers will be mounted on wall. Have you seen them wall mounted?
I like 5.1 package pricing!

Thanks,

Scott

The best affordable mounts are the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, they work great and don't even require you to drill a hole in your speaker. I have used them with the Hsu HB-1s and Infinity Primus p162s, they work great. Don't get a lesser mount, I have tried other mounts that were supposedly rated for 30 lbs and could barely hold 10 lbs. The AM40s will hold these 15 lbs speakers. The Hsu speakers are terrific by the way, and their subs are just amazing. Whatever speaker you go with, get yourself a Hsu sub or a Hsu designed sub (the frequently recommended Outlaw subs are Hsu designed).
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post #27 of 29
5/30/12 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

ifor,
I attached cabinet drawing.
a/v rack in fireplace closet would have been further away than current a/v cabinet location.
I wanted sanus a/v rack in a/v cabinet but bottom of cabinet is a few inches off floor so moving rack in/out of a/v cabinet would not be easy.



Regards

Sc0tt

Hi Scott, I would still revert back to having a rack in the closet. You really only need access to it for inserting dvds or blu-rays. Everything else is controlled by a remote (hopefully one that is programmed for you and is RF).

The front view is lopsided to me and doesn't lend itself to modern designs, especially since the tv would be placed higher than the equipment cabinet. I would suggest using a straight built in credenza type of cabinet.

Maybe do an upper section for the tv with shelving on the sides of the tv for storage. You could also build a backer to bring the tv forward towards the front edge of the cabinet.

Whay would be the main reason for not using the closet location? If cable distance is the maon reason, do not worry, the few feet further will not make any difference whatsoever.

If you want to hide the speakers, then you can place them in the cabinet section like I did in the first picture I posted here. The speakers are LCRs placed behind the grill cloth in the cabinet with the sub placed below one of the LCRs.

btw, the tv in the second pic is a 60".
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post #28 of 29
5/31/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post

kusham,

MK2 is a nice bookshelf speaker but big at 15x8x8 and I do not have room for stands; speakers will be mounted on wall. Have you seen them wall mounted?
I like 5.1 package pricing!

Thanks,

Scott

Use the mounts that shadyj recommended and you should be fine.

If your in socal you can get the package cheaper. No shipping and pete will work with you on the price.
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post #29 of 29
6/1/12 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The best affordable mounts are the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, they work great and don't even require you to drill a hole in your speaker. I have used them with the Hsu HB-1s and Infinity Primus p162s, they work great. Don't get a lesser mount, I have tried other mounts that were supposedly rated for 30 lbs and could barely hold 10 lbs. The AM40s will hold these 15 lbs speakers. The Hsu speakers are terrific by the way, and their subs are just amazing. Whatever speaker you go with, get yourself a Hsu sub or a Hsu designed sub (the frequently recommended Outlaw subs are Hsu designed).

shadyj,
I like the mounts because they clamp on speaker and have support from the bottom.
I would have to place mount on a side wall and turn speaker to point to couch in great room; so I would need mount to have enough room behind speaker to be able to swivel speaker to point in proper direction.

I am getting a lot of good speaker recommendations, I am now searching locally(Minnesota) for vendors who can demo speakers for me, some places I called can order speakers, it's harder finding vendor who has them on floor to demo.

Regards,

Scott
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