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Why pay $5000+ for speakers? - Page 14

post #391 of 438
7/26/12 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

Care to provide a concrete example instead of a straw-man?
Didnt know concrete was an antonymn for straw-man.

What I provided was an analogy and, given AJ's earlier posts (where he claims that those papers refuted the claims of another when they actually dont), if that was not enough for you to get the gist of the matter then I doubt anything 'concrete' would make a difference.
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post #392 of 438
7/26/12 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpose View Post

I think that value is incredibly relative. As such, I don't think you are wrong, you just view it differently.

For example, someone here on this thread basically posited that $100 for jeans is expensive. Where I live, for many folks, that would be a bargain.

Seriously! I was feeling a bit self-conscious until I read your post. Until I read ADTG's post, I was wondering where people even found jeans for under $100. Even at discount shops such as Neiman's Last Call it's hard to find decent jeans (I mean well made ones; there are plenty of crap "designer" diffusion line products - PS Paul Smith, that sort of thing - that are cheaper.) for under $100 without stacking a lot of discounts.

I remember even back in 1998 really good jeans cost more than that. If my memory's right, a pair of jeans were around 2000 schilling at the old Helmut Lang store on Seilergasse 6 in Vienna ca. 1998. I think that's about 150 USD today. Then it was a bit more.

The types of jeans I tend to buy (raw, selvage denim) seem to start at around $200, and go up from there. True, APC's are cheaper, $120-200 depending on where and when one buys. But they don't have a cut that fits me well.

Today, I'd happily pay $500 for a pair of NOS pre-Prada (i.e. 1998-9) Helmut Lang Classic Cut or even Boot Cut raw jeans in my size. Maybe even more, if I had to. I've yet to find anything else that fits as well, is as comfortable, or is as durable as the original Helmut Langs.

So yeah, I guess it is relative.

Not one of those are real jeans. Just overpriced designer denim. I wouldn't pay over $40 for a pair of jeans and lately buy Kirklands at Costco for about $25 IIRC, Levi's otherwise. Was wondering where you were smile.gif
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post #393 of 438
7/26/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

Damn, you guys lost me somewhere along the way of beer, boat, and fishing. eek.gif

It's all relative; beer, boats, bourbon and speakers. If you can't afford the price of admission, then you have to stay at home. tongue.gif
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post #394 of 438
7/26/12 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

Have fun, If you are satisfied with ordinary American type brew, try some BUD Ultra in the pretty blue bottle. I like it, but be careful it is sorta strong stuff.

Currently having a "Fat Tire." If I could regularly afford some Parker Heritage Reserve bourbon, I'd choose that to ruin my liver with as opposed to Fat Tire. tongue.gif

The point, it's about the whole experience, not just the price. Some can afford a more expensive experience and I say, God bless them. Not enough here are willing to do that. If I could afford to trash my system and just for giggles, experiment between a set of higher end Martin Logans vs a 5.1 set of Vandersteens, I would. If just for giggles I could throw money away on the interconnect game, I would. If I could throw a bundle down on separates, I would. If I could win the lottery, I would, but boo, hoo, hoo; I can't. frown.gif

smile.gif

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I couldn't stomach enough of what New Belgium calls the Fat Tire these days to even tickle my liver, it used to be so much better! BUD Ultra, though, that's not even beer. Yuk.

Reminds me of a local dive's motto where we used to hang out...I'd rather be a good liver than have one.
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post #395 of 438
7/26/12 at 3:00pm
This thread just got extraordinary. Colorado is beer country, but I'm hard pressed to be a regular of anything coming out of here. Try anything from Avery or Titan on a regular basis. Way too rich and overwhelming. To me, the Oregon brewers have done something remarkable. Rogue, Full Sail, and Deschutes make the best, most repeatable beers I've ever had. Full Sail makes an outstanding pilsner, called LTD. I've never called a pils outstanding. The Deschutes brews never fail to impress. Rogue (seals outside) makes Dead Guy which is pretty much the reason to drink Rogue. Anyway, yes, beer is good.
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post #396 of 438
7/26/12 at 3:47pm
I'm so, so, so upset. mad.gifmad.gif

My luck. Again! mad.gif

So the 2 delivery guys came today. As they unpacked one of the 802D, they somehow managed to dropped the speaker and shattered the Diamond tweeter! eek.gif

So I was pissed. I told them they can take these 802D back to the dealer and I'll think about what to do next.

These are the last 802D1 available (at least the new one, not used).

So pissed right now. mad.gif

Maybe they can get me the 802D2 for the same price to make up for this fiasco. Don't know.

So looks like my in-home impression of the 802D just got seriously delayed.
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post #397 of 438
7/26/12 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

So pissed right now. mad.gif

I feel your pain, but you've got 17 other sets of speakers to listen to-relax and have a microbrew biggrin.gif.
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post #398 of 438
7/26/12 at 9:26pm
Sorry to hear about your 802's, hopefully it'll work out for the best. Just wondering, was it UPS, FedEx, or another freight company?
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post #399 of 438
7/26/12 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

You mean you don't believe ID speakers should cost more than $5,000? biggrin.gif

Thats not what I meant...

ID speakers for $5k is usually more value than hitting my local audio store with $5k.

So saying "Y U SPEND MOAR THAN 5K?" can mean alot of things...cost of parts, full retail, ID, etc...
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post #400 of 438
7/27/12 at 12:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

This thread just got extraordinary. Colorado is beer country, but I'm hard pressed to be a regular of anything coming out of here. Try anything from Avery or Titan on a regular basis. Way too rich and overwhelming. To me, the Oregon brewers have done something remarkable. Rogue, Full Sail, and Deschutes make the best, most repeatable beers I've ever had. Full Sail makes an outstanding pilsner, called LTD. I've never called a pils outstanding. The Deschutes brews never fail to impress. Rogue (seals outside) makes Dead Guy which is pretty much the reason to drink Rogue. Anyway, yes, beer is good.

Those are just some of the Oregon brews...try Ninkasi, Block 15 and Hopworks for starters.
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post #401 of 438
7/27/12 at 5:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I couldn't stomach enough of what New Belgium calls the Fat Tire these days to even tickle my liver, it used to be so much better! BUD Ultra, though, that's not even beer. Yuk.
Reminds me of a local dive's motto where we used to hang out...I'd rather be a good liver than have one.

I like all beer, so there. I drink for the buzz, taste is secondary. tongue.gif
Edited by Todd68 - 7/27/12 at 5:06am
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post #402 of 438
7/27/12 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I'm so, so, so upset. mad.gifmad.gif

So pissed right now. mad.gif

That's terrible to read. As it's happening I see you thinking; "Come on! YOU'RE KIDDING!" eek.gif

The least they could have done was destroyed them before arrival. To have it happen right in front of you is cruel and unusual punishment.

Tonight (or last night) I suspect the image will be of you howling at the new moon in emotional anguish.

Sorry about your loss. frown.gif
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post #403 of 438
7/27/12 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I like all beer, so there. I drink for the buzz, taste is secondary. tongue.gif

Just saying, it never hurts to get a "tasty buzz." Now, about that Nacho Grande order we put in....... tongue.gif

Now the question, at $5k plus, is one really getting bang for the buck? Being that our speakers value at more than $5k, I feel it's money well spent for quality of home theater sound.

The point of my above, while drinking beer and eating quality nachos, does one notice sound quality and with normal distractions, does one take benefit of improved sound quality?

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 7/27/12 at 6:28am
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post #404 of 438
7/27/12 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post

I like all beer, so there. I drink for the buzz, taste is secondary. tongue.gif

Ew. If you just want a buzz, then take a couple shots of cheap vodka. It'll get your buzz faster and cheaper. I've only been drinking beer for a few months now and I like finding tasty ones. I have found a number that I definitely am not a fan of as well biggrin.gif
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post #405 of 438
7/27/12 at 7:20am
Caffrey's.... oh hell yeah!

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post #406 of 438
7/27/12 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by its phillip View Post

Ew. If you just want a buzz, then take a couple shots of cheap vodka. It'll get your buzz faster and cheaper. I've only been drinking beer for a few months now and I like finding tasty ones. I have found a number that I definitely am not a fan of as well biggrin.gif

Meh to both options. Beer is overated. Cheap Vodka is just sleazy.

I stick with my whisky - Forty Creek, Laphroaig, The Ileach, Alberta Premium, Black Grouse, Crown Royal, Aberlour, Tullibardine, John Black, ;D
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post #407 of 438
7/27/12 at 8:01am
Yes, cheap vodka is garbage, but the man said he only drinks for a buzz smile.gif

Whiskey is meh to me, but I haven't exactly tried that many.

A good drink is a good drink, whether it's a beer, whiskey, tequila, wine, or whatever. I used to trash beer up until December of last year, but then I started trying a bunch, and it's great smile.gif
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post #408 of 438
7/27/12 at 9:09am
American beers are wonderful. There are so many really well done brews that can be had as a regular replacement for Bud, and some of the experimental ones are a great way to play and discover what's happening at the most innovative edges of brewing. Russian River and Dogfish Head are probably the most experimental brewers out there today. As for Scotch, I think Glenrothes is one of the best I've had at its price. For Tequlia, I've been a happy Herradura drinker for a while. A pour over ice is a nice way to go.
Edited by jmichaelf - 7/27/12 at 9:14am
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post #409 of 438
7/27/12 at 11:22am
Back to speakers guys... cool.gif
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post #410 of 438
7/27/12 at 1:25pm
Okay, opinion restated: $5k speakers can be a good purchase but there is hardly any value in purchasing top performing speakers, the second most important part of the puzzle, and leaving the room, which is the most important piece, untouched.
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post #411 of 438
7/27/12 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmichaelf View Post

Okay, opinion restated: $5k speakers can be a good purchase but there is hardly any value in purchasing top performing speakers, the second most important part of the puzzle, and leaving the room, which is the most important piece, untouched.

Forgive my negativity when I post; and what about us dummies who don't know better. confused.gif Again, you'll have to forgive me as comments like your above (no disrespect intended) compel me to respond as to me, unintentionally I'm sure, the comments come across as flip or arrogant. This as opposed to being informative or helpful to the OP. At the entry level of sub $5k 5.1 speaker systems, not too many people are onto what a room can do to sound in regard to sound waves cancelling each other out due to uncontrolled room reflections. Programs like Audyssey MultiEQ XT fix a multitude of sonic sins in a room populated with a theater like sound system.

Disclosure: I went the route of the speakers must be perfect in their set up and then some; audio-nervosa. Drove my wife, family and friends nuts with all the minor changes, tweeks and audio angst. Then I woke-up regarding reality vs esoteric. I asked myself, how do I really listen to our set-up? Do I listen with my eyes closed while in the critical listening position, paralyzed in fear of moving out of the sweet spot or do I listen/watch movies when the family and friends are over with a Blu-ray disk in the player and everybody having fun while munching on their very own personalized bowl of well buttered popcorn; entertainment? When I answered that question, I realized I was missing the fun of the movies and the act of sharing because I was so wrapped up in the esoteric details of the audio system. The interest in speakers and sound quality had ceased to be fun as it had became about the nervosa and not the entertaining quality a decent set-up brings to the table, compelling sound with which to accompany the movie watching experience.

As a curiosity, at $5k, what do you consider to be a top performing 5.1 speaker set?

(FWIW, our 5.2 speaker system, new, with 15% dealership discount, would be a $6.5k system, The point, my comments do not come from the sour grapes of not having a $5k speaker system.)

I have to ask as I keep getting hooked by these types of comments.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 7/27/12 at 3:23pm
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post #412 of 438
7/27/12 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Forgive my negativity when I post; and what about us dummies who don't know better. confused.gif Again, you'll have to forgive me as comments like your above (no disrespect intended) compel me to respond as to me, unintentionally I'm sure, the comments come across as flip or arrogant. This as opposed to being informative or helpful to the OP. At the entry level of sub $5k 5.1 speaker systems, not too many people are onto what a room can do to sound in regard to sound waves cancelling each other out due to uncontrolled room reflections. Programs like Audyssey MultiEQ XT fix a multitude of sonic sins in a room populated with a theater like sound system.
Disclosure: I went the route of the speakers must be perfect in their set up and then some; audio-nervosa. Drove my wife, family and friends nuts with all the minor changes, tweeks and audio angst. Then I woke-up regarding reality vs esoteric. I asked myself, how do I really listen to our set-up? Do I listen with my eyes closed while in the critical listening position, paralyzed in fear of moving out of the sweet spot or do I listen/watch movies when the family and friends are over with a Blu-ray disk in the player and everybody having fun while munching on their very own personalized bowl of well buttered popcorn; entertainment? When I answered that question, I realized I was missing the fun of the movies and the act of sharing because I was so wrapped up in the esoteric details of the audio system. The interest in speakers and sound quality had ceased to be fun as it had became about the nervosa and not the entertaining quality a decent set-up brings to the table, compelling sound with which to accompany the movie watching experience.
As a curiosity, at $5k, what do you consider to be a top performing 5.1 speaker set?
(FWIW, our 5.2 speaker system, new, with 15% dealership discount, would be a $6.5k system, The point, my comments do not come from the sour grapes of not having a $5k speaker system.)
I have to ask as I keep getting hooked by these types of comments.
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A $5k speaker system is very different from $5k speakers, if you have $5k speakers your systems probably upwards of 25k :P
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post #413 of 438
7/27/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

A $5k speaker system is very different from $5k speakers, if you have $5k speakers your systems probably upwards of 25k :P

How could one possibly justify spending $20k on electronics/treatments/(cables?) and only $5k on speakers? If anything a $15-20k set of speakers should be part of a $25k system...
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post #414 of 438
7/27/12 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

A $5k speaker system is very different from $5k speakers, if you have $5k speakers your systems probably upwards of 25k :P

I took the plural of speaker in the heading to mean a full set of speakers and when reading the OP, I took the OP's comments to mean a full set of HT speakers.

confused.gif

If I had big money, there's no telling what I'd buy but I'm sure I'd have no trouble with conspicuous consumption.

biggrin.gif
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post #415 of 438
7/27/12 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

How could one possibly justify spending $20k on electronics/treatments/(cables?) and only $5k on speakers? If anything a $15-20k set of speakers should be part of a $25k system...

I would be hard pressed to put a 25k system together if I spent 20k on the speakers. Even 15K would be a problem, since I would want my bass and video to match my speaker so that I have a balanced system. With a 20K speaker system, I would want a 5K sub system. Then there is the AVR/prepro, amps and the projector. Also if I was putting that much into a system, I would be using an A-lens with the projector and a video processor. An HT system is only as good as it's weakest link. My personal opinion, I would rather have a well balanced 15K system than one where I spent 20K on the speakers and only 5K on the rest of the HT.
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post #416 of 438
7/27/12 at 10:08pm
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I would be hard pressed to put a 25k system together if I spent 20k on the speakers. Even 15K would be a problem, since I would want my bass and video to match my speaker so that I have a balanced system. With a 20K speaker system, I would want a 5K sub system. Then there is the AVR/prepro, amps and the projector. Also if I was putting that much into a system, I would be using an A-lens with the projector and a video processor. An HT system is only as good as it's weakest link. My personal opinion, I would rather have a well balanced 15K system than one where I spent 20K on the speakers and only 5K on the rest of the HT.

Little confusion here. The basis of the thread was a $5k pair of speakers, so my take was a pair of speakers plus the equipment to run them. If we're talking a full on 5.1 HT + video for 25k, then I completely agree about splitting things up even more.
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post #417 of 438
7/27/12 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Knowing you're mostly paying for the cabinet and dealer mark up, is there really a point? The drivers and crossovers in some of these brands cost nowhere near as much. And price does't equal peformance. l've heard some $2000 speakers that sound way better than more exspensive ones.


Basically as i learn more about speakers i decided that i don't think i'll ever spend 5 to 10k on them.


Or there always used.


Am i alone (or wrong) in this thinking?

In a nutshell there is no consumer product in any field which does not follow the Law of Diminishing Returns. None. But its really up to the individual to assess his or her budget and where that diminishing return becomes punitive to them. I have no doubt there are lots of $2k speaker pairs that in a double blind test would compare very favorably with many $5k speakers. Likewise, Id bet there are a good deal of $500 speakers that can absolutely hang with many $2k models.

Every individual needs to decide where that line is crossed. I spent $9k on my road bike. Most people think thats complete insanity and perhaps it is. But. I look at it this way, last year I rode it 8000 miles, its healthy and a whole lot better for me than a lot of other crapola I could have spent 9k on. Does it make me Lance Armstrong? nope. But its a bad ass rig, its titanium with artist like welds and its fabricated so well iT'll likely outlast me and Ill pass it down when its time. Its my main stress releiver and form of exercise so to me its worth it. Other people think Im crazy, but hey I think their crazy for spending $60k on a car that does nothing a $30k car doesnt do.

That said I do believe there is a good deal of snake oil in the AV world - multihousands spent on cables, $10k plus amps, etc. Things I think no av fan could actually detect in a double blind test, but to each his own. I have seen guys spend $10k on fancy cables and $0 on room treatments, go figure?????.
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post #418 of 438
7/28/12 at 12:04am
First, the JBL LSR 6332,



Second, the Revel Ultima Studio2, which is a lot more expensive:




The JBL "studio monitors" are in well-built cabinets, with attention to detail that serious audio buffs will notice, such as the edge roundovers to reduce diffraction. But they are finished to be hidden or used in a work environment: no veneer, no high gloss finishes, for that matter no grilles available. The Revels clearly have a lot more going on both in the shape of the cabinet, and in the quality of materials and labor used to finish them. They, simply speaking, look expensive.


I suspect that most people would rather look at the Revels. Most people who are not into audio would certainly prefer to look at the Revels!


Now, if you're putting them behind a screen, or otherwise hiding them, and are choosing between these two speakers, it makes a lot more sense to get the JBL's than the Revels. In that case, the cabinet aesthetic is of de minimis importance. So why pay for it?[/quote]


Has anyone used the JBL Studio Recording LSR series for HT surround set up?
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post #419 of 438
7/28/12 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

How could one possibly justify spending $20k on electronics/treatments/(cables?) and only $5k on speakers? If anything a $15-20k set of speakers should be part of a $25k system...

I guess it depends if you look at $5k for front speakers, then you can easily put 20k into subwoofers, center, surrounds/sides, pre-amps, receivers, separate amplifiers, sources, etc.

depends really if you're building for home theatre, 2ch music, or SACD/DVD-A
Edited by WagBoss - 7/28/12 at 8:05am
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post #420 of 438
7/28/12 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Little confusion here. The basis of the thread was a $5k pair of speakers, so my take was a pair of speakers plus the equipment to run them. If we're talking a full on 5.1 HT + video for 25k, then I completely agree about splitting things up even more.

$5000.00 + :P
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