Are You Looking For A Less Expensive Norco 4220 / 4224 Alternative? - Page 28

My server got delivered yesterday. I am really happy with it too! I had some trouble getting the computer to boot, but re-seating the memory and the power supplies resolved the issue. I am really glad that people mentioned the need to order screws (Supermicro MCP-410-00005-0N) as I discovered that normal drive screws stick out to far and will not work. I got those today thanks to ordering them before my system arrived. One tip for others waiting for their systems, you might want to make sure you have a VGA cable or the appropriate adapters. It took a lot of searching for me to find the only VGA cable I still had, annoyingly it was a super short cable too. lol.

I have to admit the noise level is as loud as people have been saying. I have been deciding how I wanted to approach quieting the system down. I figured I would start researching the fans a bit since I am not too familiar with the whole system cooling scene. Thanks for the close up pics of all the fans btw, that really helped! I started with the specs for the stock case fans. The 5 case fans are Sanyo 80mm fans model 9G0812P1G09, they are 90.3 cfm and 51 dB.

The stock 900w power supplies use a Sanyo 40mm fan model 9CRA0412J505. I couldn't find specs for that specific model but I did find a couple of models (ie 9CRA0412J501) that had similar details (12v 1.4a). The similar models are 37.8 cfm and 62 dB. I feel pretty confident that matches the noise coming from the system and is pretty significant, especially with two of them running.

To have something to compare that too, I found a few decibel rating sites that mentioned normal conversation is around 60 dB, refrigerator hums around 40 dB, whispers are around 20 dB, a washing machine around 75 dB, and a lawn mower around 90 dB. Decibels are logarithmic so a few decibels difference can be relevant.

The Arctic Cooling F8 PWM 80mm fan's used by the original poster are 28 CFM and are 21 dB. That is a huge improvement. It is 1/3rd the CFM but it still gets the job done for him so I think I am going to go a similar route. I don't expect the system to run hot and I keep it in a room that is usually close to 60 degrees. I figure the fans are so easy to pop in and out that if the system temps to high I could always pop them back in. I figure it is worth it for a 30 dB drop in volume. I looked at the Noctua NF-R8 80mm Fan as well and they are 31 CFM and 17 dB. I am having a hard time quantifying what the difference between 21 dB and 17dB would be. It can be hard sometimes to find the line between what is needed and what is overkill. I will probably go with the less expensive model.

I figured since I had all the numbers handy I might as well post them in case they are useful to anyone. I didn't research the HSF yet so I don't know where that stands. I think I am going to order my new fans and then start looking into what sized power supply I actually need and go from there. Thanks again for the awesome thread, tons of interesting info stashed away in here. I can't wait to play with the IPMI stuff

One thing to watch for if you don't want to have to do what I did and drill the back panel and the fan wall is that not all 80mm fans have the same outer dimension so they may not fit "inside" the plastic cases that the system uses. It looks like the fans the OP used worked fine but the Enermax that I purchased did not.... now I am still happy with the Enermax as they push 28cfm and are rated at <15dBA and I like the extra space generated from removing the fan cases but that's a personal opinion and you do lose the ability to "slide" a fan out in the stock setup.

k

FWIW, these fans are working great in one of these. We ordered 10 at $2.79 each and they fit inside the plastic fan housings fine. Specs are 28db at 31cfm. I'll be installing them in a second server this weekend, along with a new power supply. Not silent, but close enough for the price.

I decided to buy one of the 2U servers with the rails for $268 shipped. I don't think there is any way I would ever use close to 24 slots anyways, especially with 4TB drives out there now. I mainly just want it for the easy hot swap/ drive accessibility. I will probably put a 400 watt power supply in it as I only have 6 drives right now. The motherboard/CPU/ram combo probably won't be in there long either sadly enough. I want to be able to do some transcoding and possible VMs and I don't think an E8400 will do it that well.

I used to actually have a E8400 desktop overclocked to 4.0GHz, it was a great CPU when it was new.

I found these Arctic Cooling F8 fans for pretty cheap as well.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/arcoarf8pwmh.html

those fans are sleeve bearing aka "short life" fan when running 24/7

for 24/7 is better to get non sleeve bearing, I prefer ball bearing or 2 ball bearing or fluid blablabla. 2 ball bearing is the winner but noisier than others

Whoa, that's where I get my watercooling stuff. Great little shop. Nice find.


Noted, but we have spares. ;-)

If you end up removing the mobo/CPU/RAM (and even the sata cards) and are willing to sell them, let me know what you want for them.

So I'd like to hear some opinions. I have one of the new 4U servers coming this week, and I also have one of the original AMD servers from the last batch that I have not touched yet (other than to make sure it powers up and can get into bios). I have ordered parts for the first one, but since there is less modding needed for the new one I will be setting it up first. One of these is going to be dedicated to being a media server only running flexraid and serving up files for WMC, Media Browser, and Plex. The other one I will use to 'play' with trying different things just to see what all I can do with a server once I get it together.

Here's my question: First, I got a couple of the 2419 hexacores. Which server should I use them in? The media only server, or the 'learning' server. Where would it benefit me the most? Second, I have a copy of WHS 2011 and Windows 7 Home Premium. What OS would you recommend for each server?

I've built many gaming PC's, work PC's, and HTPC's, but never messed around in the server world. So I'd be interested in a discussion about what I'm getting into, what I can do with these, and just hearing all the knowledge and experience that seems to be had in this thread.

 

WHS 2011 + FlexRaid for the media server, no question. And you can put one 2419 each in a server, one is enough a for file server. If you also want the media server to do transcoding, then I'm not so sure if it'll be enough. Are they regular 2419's or the EE version?

 

Do you plan to keep the motherboard/ram and just replace the cpu? If your 'learning server' is going to run VM's etc, then you might be better off replacing the motherboard+cpu to a more modern one. You can buy desktop components for much cheaper.

Edited by Defcon - 8/22/12 at 3:06pm

Planning on keeping the motherboard/ram. I also purchased another 8 gigs of Ram...not sure where I'm going to put it either.

Can someone with a 4U server remove the front plastic bezel & pull out the drive bays Do the drive bay have a part number &\or model number? The remain 4U server from the reseller have no drive bays. I am looking for a part number\model so I can see if they can be purchased elsewhere. or if they is an alternative drive bay that can fit into this chassis.

you can search on 3bay with keyword " 05-01-815105-XXA"

barely fit

They're listed on Supermicro's website on the chassis page under MCP-220-00024-0B but there are some on eBay under MCP-220-00001-01

I'm not expert, but these ones might work too and they're a lot cheaper than the model that comes stock with the chassis.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Black-Supermicro-MCP-220-00047-0B-2-5-SAS-SATA-HDD-Tray-2-5-Hot-Swap-1U-2U-/280946836762?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4169bc851a#ht_500wt_1364
Edited by Biggrich76 - 8/23/12 at 5:04am

PSU from my workstation that motherboard is already converted to 4U server (AIC server case) for esxi,

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Black) http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/silencer-750-quad-black.html


newegg has 910W version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703022

the PSU is very long....

I'm not sure just how large a PSU is required. I've got mine connected through a Kill-a-watt monitor. During boot a dual Xeon setup is only drawing 300 watts. When 18 out of 24 bays have drives being used (running bonnie tests and doing file copying) the peak never appears to exceed 400w. There's other things like in-rush current and amperage to be considered. I've not yet examined those.

My point is it may be overkill to go beyond a 650-700 watt supply. I picked up an OCZ 1000w that's probably going back for one it seems unstable when all of it's modular connections are used for drives. But stable when all of the drives are connected on just two of them (out of the five) using y-splitters. Given 1000w is overkill stepping back to a lower wattage would likely be less expensive too.

Any others have comments? Anyone else with measurements of wattage/amperage being used by a fully loaded chassis like this? Ones under what could be considered 'maximum' loading?

The power requirement spikes quite a bit just as you hit the power button. You may hit double your constant power demand for no more than a second or two but that may be enough to cause you problems if your PSU is too small or too weak. Also, it depends on how your SATA card powers up the drives. Some stagger the the drives in blocks of 4, 6 or 8 to relieve the need for bigger peak powers but unless you know for sure that is what it does I would want to risk the drives to a weak PSU.

Sure, that all makes sense. That was what I was indicating when I mentioned in-rush. The idea being you need to have a supply that can withstand that initial jolt of demand as the system is powered up. The existing SATA controllers do stagger powering the drives. From the limited amount of noise I hear they're not all spinning up anyway. They do spin up when the guest VM that uses them is booted.

Another point of sudden spikes can happen when the system transitions from being idle to sudden demand.

This was where I first noticed a potential problem with the 1000W OCZ PSU I've got here. I brought up the ESXi client on another workstation, connected to this ESXi server, woke up one guest VM and booted another. At point the machine spontaneously rebooted. No error log messages or nothing, just a cold boot. It was not easily repeatable. The hard part being letting the machine and guests sit idle long enough for the various devices to power down.

In the process of setting the machine up I dealt with getting some additional modular cables from OCZ (which turned out to be the wrong ones). I wondered whether I might be having some sort of bus or rail problem within the power supply. But none of their documentation breaks it down. So on a hunch I just daisy-chained all of the drive bays off a single PSU connection. It's been several days running with no issues... so I'm going to be returning this PSU as defective (gotta love having a local Microcenter).

So I'm evaluating just how much of a demand it'll need to support. And then try to match that up with the appropriate PSU. I've no problem with over-subscribing, clearly that was my intention with the 1000W unit. But if it's not necessary then it opens other possibilities...

FWIW, gotta give a big thumbs up to Andy at TAMsolutions. Not only a killer deal, but he's sending me a power supply replacement. Great prices and service, hard to find value like that these days.

She :)

LOL, yeah I corrected someone earlier in the thread as well. I was dealt with her via email for a few weeks during the waiting period before the new servers shipped and all along I assumed she was a man, until I called to pay my invoice ... I was a little surprised. But she definitely knows her stuff and is awesome to deal with.

almost done

Sorry, I was half-asleep when I posted that. Looks like the cheapest 3.5" bays on eBay are like 12 bucks each. That'll add up quick with 24 bays.

Very nice... interesting what you did with puting a 120mm or 80mm fan on the stock CPU heatsink... at least it looks like that's what you did and great work on the 120mm fan wall change out.

I am going to have to cleanup my SATA cables now for sure as you are all puting me to shame

k

glad that you can get a free replacement and check the replacement psu modul rate to make sure match with yours,

Mine has two PSU module rate, 700W and 900W hehhee, somebody swapped the module. yap 700W is less noise tha 900W, but still loud noise.

If I plan to use PSU that came from the server, I would to get 900W replacement.

I make some screw holes on server base and server side.

I can make a cut on norco fan-wall to make original SATA cable passthrough still works. I do not take that path due on flimsy norco fan-wall.
norco fan wall removal is easy where I can unscrew., but.... I need to unplug all backplane cables ..oops.

all 120mm fans connect to backplane fan 1,2, and 3. I just let backplane monitor fan-wall speeds and set off alarm when needed.

rerouting SATA cables are not hard, since I can hide those under wall fans.

I use 92mm fan on CPU heatsink, I do not want to buy another CPU/Fan heatsink, (reuse any material as possible hehee).


on my to do list:
* clean up PSU cable clutter
* move current pirmary raid card and cables(8087 to sata breakout) to this server
* install centos 6.3 with mdadm raid1 for system to two 80G Sata HDs,
* configure/install raid CLI and GUI tools, NFS, CIFS, ethernet bonding, health sensors monitor, and misc tasks.


next project(not need to rush) for fun is, making server rack cabinet from tv top table to reduce noise where I can put on my living room as a corner table (w/ doors to disguise as a real corner table)



Have fun with your server!

I have finally ran out of hard drive bays in my computers around the house and all the hard drives are pretty much full, so it's time to make the leap to a server. I sent an email off about the 4U model to see if/when these are in stock. I am really new to servers and I'm not sure I quite understand the rack mounting thing. Is it necessary? What are the benefits of doing it and what are the downfalls of not doing it? This machine would occupy a corner area of my computer room in the basement.

The noise will not affect viewing as the tvs are nowhere near the machine, but the noise will certainly be noticeable while working on my desktop. Is this reason enough to quiet down the machine? The machine will be used to serve two HTPC and my main desktop. Viewing high res videos would only take place on the HTPCs. This will be used as a pure media/file server. Any conversions/transcoding will be done on my main desktop, so I'm assuming the stock cpu/mb/ram will suffice. I can figure out all the software stuff, I just want to make sure I'm going the right direction with the hardware.

I can only speak from my recent experience... this is a great opportunity and for file storage only the "as is" solution will work fine. However, if you plan to work anywhere near this machine and it is as loud as mine was, you need to at least replace the PSU's which is not a huge job in the recent servers, and then see if you need to replace any of the other fans to further reduce the noise (you may not need to).

k