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Are You Looking For A Less Expensive Norco 4220 / 4224 Alternative? - Page 29

post #841 of 1460
8/24/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobber8742 View Post

...but the noise will certainly be noticeable while working on my desktop. Is this reason enough to quiet down the machine?
Depends on your threshold of pain. The stock configurations make them suitable for use pretty much only in a room without people working there. The droning noise is pretty annoying. You can do a lot to reduce the noise by swapping out the rear case fans or putting a fan controller on them (the rheostat kind). But you'd still be left with the racket that the power supplies make.

The advantage to rackmounting is it's secure and you can service the machine by sliding it in/out on rails mounted to the rack. When you've got more than one machine it starts becoming very tedious to use individual servers resting on shelves. You run into problems with cabling getting caught when you try to move anything. When you use a rackmount setup you can configure cable management arms (or just some added slack) with the wires bundled. This way they won't interfere with other machines when you move a machine to service it. There are lots of rack sizes and options out there. Check with a local computer surplus or recycler. I've got three I picked up relatively cheap that way (around $100-$150 each for a 72U tall rack on wheels).

The other thing to consider is a KVM switch with some nice long keyboard, mouse and video cables. I keep all my gear in an adjacent room, all plugged into a KVM. Then I just run a 35' long bundle of wires from there to my desk. Much, much less annoying than having fans and what not making a racket in the same room. The only downside is I have to get up and walk over there to change an optical disc on the rare times I'd use one. Or to do a hard reset on something, but that's rare.
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post #842 of 1460
8/24/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

Depends on your threshold of pain. The stock configurations make them suitable for use pretty much only in a room without people working there. The droning noise is pretty annoying. You can do a lot to reduce the noise by swapping out the rear case fans or putting a fan controller on them (the rheostat kind). But you'd still be left with the racket that the power supplies make.
The advantage to rackmounting is it's secure and you can service the machine by sliding it in/out on rails mounted to the rack. When you've got more than one machine it starts becoming very tedious to use individual servers resting on shelves. You run into problems with cabling getting caught when you try to move anything. When you use a rackmount setup you can configure cable management arms (or just some added slack) with the wires bundled. This way they won't interfere with other machines when you move a machine to service it. There are lots of rack sizes and options out there. Check with a local computer surplus or recycler. I've got three I picked up relatively cheap that way (around $100-$150 each for a 72U tall rack on wheels).
The other thing to consider is a KVM switch with some nice long keyboard, mouse and video cables. I keep all my gear in an adjacent room, all plugged into a KVM. Then I just run a 35' long bundle of wires from there to my desk. Much, much less annoying than having fans and what not making a racket in the same room. The only downside is I have to get up and walk over there to change an optical disc on the rare times I'd use one. Or to do a hard reset on something, but that's rare.

Thanks for the info. Putting it in another room will not be a option. Changing out the power supply and fans won't be a big issue, but it's always nice to save the money if I don't have to spend it. it sounds like something I'll have to do though.

I'm not real sure where around town I'd find a server rack. I suppose I could keep an eye on craigslist. Maybe I could build some rack type thing to mount it to?
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post #843 of 1460
8/24/12 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobber8742 View Post

Thanks for the info. Putting it in another room will not be a option. Changing out the power supply and fans won't be a big issue, but it's always nice to save the money if I don't have to spend it. it sounds like something I'll have to do though.
I'm not real sure where around town I'd find a server rack. I suppose I could keep an eye on craigslist. Maybe I could build some rack type thing to mount it to?

Keep in mind that if this is your only server as so far it is for me, there should be no issue with placing it on a solid surface or shelf (IMHO) as long as you have good access etc. I have mine on a solid short table surface that allows me to walk up to it and take the top off without moving the unit... this will work for me until I feel I need a second unit eek.gif

k
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post #844 of 1460
8/24/12 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bima View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jusjoken View Post

Very nice... interesting what you did with puting a 120mm or 80mm fan on the stock CPU heatsink... at least it looks like that's what you did and great work on the 120mm fan wall change out.
I am going to have to cleanup my SATA cables now for sure as you are all puting me to shame wink.gif
k
I make some screw holes on server base and server side.

I can make a cut on norco fan-wall to make original SATA cable passthrough still works. I do not take that path due on flimsy norco fan-wall.
norco fan wall removal is easy where I can unscrew., but.... I need to unplug all backplane cables ..oops.

all 120mm fans connect to backplane fan 1,2, and 3. I just let backplane monitor fan-wall speeds and set off alarm when needed.

rerouting SATA cables are not hard, since I can hide those under wall fans.

I use 92mm fan on CPU heatsink, I do not want to buy another CPU/Fan heatsink, (reuse any material as possible hehee).


on my to do list:
* clean up PSU cable clutter
* move current pirmary raid card and cables(8087 to sata breakout) to this server
* install centos 6.3 with mdadm raid1 for system to two 80G Sata HDs,
* configure/install raid CLI and GUI tools, NFS, CIFS, ethernet bonding, health sensors monitor, and misc tasks.


next project(not need to rush) for fun is, making server rack cabinet from tv top table to reduce noise where I can put on my living room as a corner table (w/ doors to disguise as a real corner table)



Have fun with your server!

Hos is your PSU mounted?

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post #845 of 1460
8/24/12 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobber8742 View Post

I am really new to servers and I'm not sure I quite understand the rack mounting thing. Is it necessary? What are the benefits of doing it and what are the downfalls of not doing it? This machine would occupy a corner area of my computer room in the basement.

Rack mounting is not necessary, but it helps to reduce the horizontal footprint if you have a small area to work with and lots of equipment. If you're not going to use a rack, just make sure it's at least a couple feet off the floor so it's not picking up a ton of dust/hair/etc. And also secured so that it cannot be knocked off whatever you have it on, it weighs upwards of 60 pounds so you don't want it falling on anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobber8742 View Post

The noise will not affect viewing as the tvs are nowhere near the machine, but the noise will certainly be noticeable while working on my desktop. Is this reason enough to quiet down the machine?

In stock configuration, you will not be able to sit next to this thing for more than 10 minutes without ear plugs. It's that loud. If you can't afford/don't want to change out the PSU, you will at least want to swap out the case fans.
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post #846 of 1460
8/24/12 at 2:15pm
I got my 2u 12 bay server from Tam on Tuesday. Finally had a chance to boot it up. DAMN! It is louder than I expected by a good margin. So, despite its planned resting place being on the storage side of my basement, I am going to need to make a few changes.


I've read through this thread but am a bit lost as to what was being given as advice for quieting the big 4u 24 bay box and any advice given for the 2u 12 bay unit that I have.

Being new to this type of thing (built one computer in my life following Assassin's guide to the letter) I could use a little bit of the expertise shown here.

The power supplies are pretty loud, would be happy to remove them and use an external unit if that is possible or rather than the dual redundant supplies it has now going with a quieter single unit.

I was able to boot it, make a few bios changes and get it to load in to unRaid without issue, so, I'm fairly excited for that. I just want to get it quieted down before going through the preclear of the drives as it will need to run for 30 some hours...and the spot where it will go permanently is without power while the rest of the finishing work on my basement is done, so it needs to run in an actual living area for a bit....

thanks!
Edited by SeldomSeen31 - 8/24/12 at 2:26pm
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post #847 of 1460
8/24/12 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defcon View Post

Hos is your PSU mounted?

with " 3M outdoor mounting tape smile.gif , I applied tape on the bottom,side and corner of PSU.
oSDL9.jpg



I did cut a part of PSU metal bracket from old/broken PC Case, the plate was perfect match, but... I just back off from this plan due on finishing in my time constraint.
I just focused on fan-wall, where this is a must and easy to replace fan when needed.
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post #848 of 1460
8/24/12 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomSeen31 View Post

I got my 2u 12 bay server from Tam on Tuesday. Finally had a chance to boot it up. DAMN! It is louder than I expected by a good margin. So, despite its planned resting place being on the storage side of my basement, I am going to need to make a few changes.
I've read through this thread but am a bit lost as to what was being given as advice for quieting the big 4u 24 bay box and any advice given for the 2u 12 bay unit that I have.
Being new to this type of thing (built one computer in my life following Assassin's guide to the letter) I could use a little bit of the expertise shown here.
The power supplies are pretty loud, would be happy to remove them and use an external unit if that is possible or rather than the dual redundant supplies it has now going with a quieter single unit.
I was able to boot it, make a few bios changes and get it to load in to unRaid without issue, so, I'm fairly excited for that. I just want to get it quieted down before going through the preclear of the drives as it will need to run for 30 some hours...and the spot where it will go permanently is without power while the rest of the finishing work on my basement is done, so it needs to run in an actual living area for a bit....
thanks!

this is just my observation and my knowledge.

I posted to pick 4u is better than 2U when we need "less" noise.

here are my recap:
*2U server case
you are stuck with 3 80mm fans and PSU fan, you can replace low RPM 80mm fans and 2U server PSU (quite one, I have it on my AIC server case, not loud overall since it has 70mm where not in full speed all the time).
2U server does not have good air flow, we need powerfull fan for taking out hot air from the enclosure.

*4U server case
you can replace HD backplane 80mm with low RPM 1200mm with norco fan-wall (I just did, it was quick to replace)
or
you can use low rpm 80mm,
replacing two back fans to low rpm 80mm will reduce noise much.
you can pick any regular size desktop to replace PSU server without any issue.
4U server does have good air flow where back fans help to take hot air out from the enclosure.

getting 24 bay server does not mean to pack all bays. I personally will pack with ~12 drives..
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post #849 of 1460
8/24/12 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bima View Post

this is just my observation and my knowledge.
I posted to pick 4u is better than 2U when we need "less" noise.
here are my recap:
*2U server case
you are stuck with 3 80mm fans and PSU fan, you can replace low RPM 80mm fans and 2U server PSU (quite one, I have it on my AIC server case, not loud overall since it has 70mm where not in full speed all the time).
2U server does not have good air flow, we need powerfull fan for taking out hot air from the enclosure.
*4U server case
you can replace HD backplane 80mm with low RPM 1200mm with norco fan-wall (I just did, it was quick to replace)
or
you can use low rpm 80mm,
replacing two back fans to low rpm 80mm will reduce noise much.
you can pick any regular size desktop to replace PSU server without any issue.
4U server does have good air flow where back fans help to take hot air out from the enclosure.
getting 24 bay server does not mean to pack all bays. I personally will pack with ~12 drives..

Ok, seems like I'm just going to have to make the best of it. This server will be in my basement. Pretty much a steady 68 degrees F year around. I plan to start if off with 3 drives running unRaid and expand as needed. I'll have to live with the power supplies, but likely will only plug in 1 at time if that is OK, I can live without the redundancy, then I have a ready back up that hasn't been spinning for a few years if one fails.

So, I have 3 80mm fans in there, not sure what speed they run, but can anyone recommend a fan that with 3 of them would push enough air to be cool but is a bit quieter than what is in there now?
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post #850 of 1460
8/24/12 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomSeen31 View Post

Ok, seems like I'm just going to have to make the best of it. This server will be in my basement. Pretty much a steady 68 degrees F year around. I plan to start if off with 3 drives running unRaid and expand as needed. I'll have to live with the power supplies, but likely will only plug in 1 at time if that is OK, I can live without the redundancy, then I have a ready back up that hasn't been spinning for a few years if one fails.
So, I have 3 80mm fans in there, not sure what speed they run, but can anyone recommend a fan that with 3 of them would push enough air to be cool but is a bit quieter than what is in there now?

I don't think they had any of the 4U units available anymore anyway. Last I read they only had the 4U ones without the drive caddies. Those particular caddies are about 12 bucks a pop too.

The 2u server will be fine. You can replace with more silent fans, but will prob need higher RPM units than the 4u would have needed.
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post #851 of 1460
8/24/12 at 8:16pm
Question for anyone using a 4U supermicro chassis. If any one you are using controllers with mini-SAS -> SATA cables, what would the ideal length be for said cable ? I'm guessing one at 18" and another at 24" but I'd be interested to hear anyone's experience.
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post #852 of 1460
8/24/12 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeldomSeen31 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bima View Post

this is just my observation and my knowledge.
I posted to pick 4u is better than 2U when we need "less" noise.
here are my recap:
*2U server case
you are stuck with 3 80mm fans and PSU fan, you can replace low RPM 80mm fans and 2U server PSU (quite one, I have it on my AIC server case, not loud overall since it has 70mm where not in full speed all the time).
2U server does not have good air flow, we need powerfull fan for taking out hot air from the enclosure.
*4U server case
you can replace HD backplane 80mm with low RPM 1200mm with norco fan-wall (I just did, it was quick to replace)
or
you can use low rpm 80mm,
replacing two back fans to low rpm 80mm will reduce noise much.
you can pick any regular size desktop to replace PSU server without any issue.
4U server does have good air flow where back fans help to take hot air out from the enclosure.
getting 24 bay server does not mean to pack all bays. I personally will pack with ~12 drives..

Ok, seems like I'm just going to have to make the best of it. This server will be in my basement. Pretty much a steady 68 degrees F year around. I plan to start if off with 3 drives running unRaid and expand as needed. I'll have to live with the power supplies, but likely will only plug in 1 at time if that is OK, I can live without the redundancy, then I have a ready back up that hasn't been spinning for a few years if one fails.

So, I have 3 80mm fans in there, not sure what speed they run, but can anyone recommend a fan that with 3 of them would push enough air to be cool but is a bit quieter than what is in there now?


A few pages back there was some discussion of running with just 1 PSU, you have to set a jumper to avoid the alarm beeping. I don't know if this applies to the 2U server though. Keep an eye out for PSU deals on the normal deals sites (like slickdeals) you don't need a big one for 12 drives, even a 430W should be enough and those I've seen for ~25 for a good brand.

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post #853 of 1460
8/24/12 at 8:46pm
Any suggestions on the 2u server upgrade?, is it worth going with a Xeon x3220 or a Core 2 Quad Q6600 would be fine?
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post #854 of 1460
8/24/12 at 11:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

Any suggestions on the 2u server upgrade?, is it worth going with a Xeon x3220 or a Core 2 Quad Q6600 would be fine?


What is your goal for the server? Just a file server or something more? The E8400 is no slouch, but the Q6600 is a fantastic cpu no doubt.

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post #855 of 1460
8/25/12 at 4:48am
At kickoff it will be a NAS server only, but in the future I'll be running virtual machines also... Ordered 4gb more, according to the MB specs, 8GB is as far as it gets...
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post #856 of 1460
8/25/12 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

At kickoff it will be a NAS server only, but in the future I'll be running virtual machines also... Ordered 4gb more, according to the MB specs, 8GB is as far as it gets...

if you are running VMs... better to replace motherboard and CPU smile.gif
do not upgrade anything, except memory smile.gif for fileserver.
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post #857 of 1460
8/25/12 at 5:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugotd8 View Post

Question for anyone using a 4U supermicro chassis. If any one you are using controllers with mini-SAS -> SATA cables, what would the ideal length be for said cable ? I'm guessing one at 18" and another at 24" but I'd be interested to hear anyone's experience.

I quote for 1m-2m cable length where you can easy to manuever smile.gif

I have 2m cables.

50cm -80 cm is too short!
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post #858 of 1460
8/25/12 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bima View Post

if you are running VMs... better to replace motherboard and CPU smile.gif
do not upgrade anything, except memory smile.gif for fileserver.

You mean, going to current mobo+cpu (xeon/opteron)?, should be easy to use non-supermicro mobos?. IPMI is nice though....
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post #859 of 1460
8/25/12 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

You mean, going to current mobo+cpu (xeon/opteron)?, should be easy to use non-supermicro mobos?. IPMI is nice though....

just my suggestion:)

for VM machine, I suggest to replace everything: motherboard, CPU, and memory,
E3 processor with supermicro motherboard(with or without IPMI) is good for entry level VM machine (bare metal machine, for example, esxi, xen, and others)
for example, Xeon E3-1220 V2 with SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O**

this is my opinion for original motherboard from supermicro 2U server:
replacing current CPU with Xeon(LGA775*) to run VM machine, is not a good investment ( assuming you are going to use for VMs and addind guest VMs in host VM), the motherboard does Not support passthrough vt-d or AMD IOMMU) and flaky for bare metal VM machine as I undestand.
or
for file server only, you can bump memory to 8G, I assume software raid(: zfs, flexraid, unraid, and bla2) will be used.

Note:
* used xeon lga775 is not cheap as I know.
** F on supermicro motherboard means that motherboard has IPMI
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post #860 of 1460
8/25/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bima View Post

just my suggestion:)
for VM machine, I suggest to replace everything: motherboard, CPU, and memory,
E3 processor with supermicro motherboard(with or without IPMI) is good for entry level VM machine (bare metal machine, for example, esxi, xen, and others)
for example, Xeon E3-1220 V2 with SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O**
this is my opinion for original motherboard from supermicro 2U server:
replacing current CPU with Xeon(LGA775*) to run VM machine, is not a good investment ( assuming you are going to use for VMs and addind guest VMs in host VM), the motherboard does Not support passthrough vt-d or AMD IOMMU) and flaky for bare metal VM machine as I undestand.
or
for file server only, you can bump memory to 8G, I assume software raid(: zfs, flexraid, unraid, and bla2) will be used.
Note:
* used xeon lga775 is not cheap as I know.
** F on supermicro motherboard means that motherboard has IPMI

Thanks for the imput, I'll look at that and any current Opteron options.. I won't be using PCI passthrough. Another option would be to run it as a NFS server (same cpu?) to host the VM disks and build another computer (new HW) as computing node.

Edit:
The E3-1220 V2 costs $220 new comparing to x3220 ($100 to $150, used) and Q6600 ($75 to $90) on ebay... eek.gif
Edited by cyruspy - 8/25/12 at 11:28am
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post #861 of 1460
8/25/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

Another option would be to run it as a NFS server (same cpu?) to host the VM disks and build another computer (new HW) as computing node.
It's not uncommon to run VMs from NFS or iSCSI but you'll want to make sure your network between the VM host and the fileserver is up to the job. As in, don't run it on the same network as everything else in your shop. Better to have two subnets on both of the servers, one being just for the VM file I/O and the other NIC for all other network connections. A dedicated switch or even a direct connection between them is a typical setup.
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post #862 of 1460
8/25/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

It's not uncommon to run VMs from NFS or iSCSI but you'll want to make sure your network between the VM host and the fileserver is up to the job. As in, don't run it on the same network as everything else in your shop. Better to have two subnets on both of the servers, one being just for the VM file I/O and the other NIC for all other network connections. A dedicated switch or even a direct connection between them is a typical setup.

Yup, another vlan + jumbo frames... Don't know if I'll be buying a gigabit switch or just 2 six port NICs (spare PCI-X slots on the 2U server) biggrin.gif, still not sure if I should upgrade the CPU while keeping the mobo...
Edited by cyruspy - 8/25/12 at 12:53pm
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post #863 of 1460
8/25/12 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mexicanmike03 View Post

I don't think they had any of the 4U units available anymore anyway. Last I read they only had the 4U ones without the drive caddies. Those particular caddies are about 12 bucks a pop too.
The 2u server will be fine. You can replace with more silent fans, but will prob need higher RPM units than the 4u would have needed.

Crud, where did you read this about the drive caddies? I made my order last Thursday evening and Andy just said "it will have everything you need".
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post #864 of 1460
8/25/12 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

Thanks for the imput, I'll look at that and any current Opteron options.. I won't be using PCI passthrough. Another option would be to run it as a NFS server (same cpu?) to host the VM disks and build another computer (new HW) as computing node.
Edit:
The E3-1220 V2 costs $220 new comparing to x3220 ($100 to $150, used) and Q6600 ($75 to $90) on ebay... eek.gif
everything is your decision.


E3-1220 V2 performance is more than double X3220 (for $100-150) :P.
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post #865 of 1460
8/25/12 at 8:47pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stm69 View Post

Crud, where did you read this about the drive caddies? I made my order last Thursday evening and Andy just said "it will have everything you need".

Not to worry... If you ordered you server and they didn't mention the caddies... it will be shipped complete... with everything you need.

This is an A+ company... and you will be 100% satisfied!
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post #866 of 1460
8/26/12 at 1:37am
As OP has stated. If you ordered and they didn't mention it, than not to worry. I CAN say with 100% certainty that TAMS has been amazing to deal with. My unit arrived with a bad PSU, and they did not hesitate to send another PSU out. Communication has always been top notch with Andy and she was great.

I figured out what was wrong with the psu, and it looks like the mechanism that locks it into the back was damaged in shipping. So even that wasn't on TAMS. I plan on using these stock for now, as they will be in my garage, inside a rack. I really want to get a sound dampening rack at some point, or maybe even see if the case can be sound dampened a little bit at some point.

Anyone doing the PSU mod, shoot me a PM with what you want for the stock PSU's as I would like to have spare or two just in case.

Sorry everyone for the caddy scare. I read it somewhere, but never confirmed with anyone. My Bad.
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post #867 of 1460
8/26/12 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyruspy View Post

still not sure if I should upgrade the CPU while keeping the mobo...
Start by configuring it as-is and see how it goes. Might do just the job needed without a lot of changes.

I can also attest to the quality customer service from TAM, great folks. I'd definitely buy from them again.
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post #868 of 1460
8/26/12 at 3:01pm
Anyone interested in the guts of one of the 4U Supermicro servers? I bought it for the case/hotswap units. I'm interested in recovering some of my cost, so I'm selling the following:
2x 900watt PSUs with mounting cage and failover hardware.
Supermicro Board with Opteron chip, HSF, and 8gb RAM
3x SAT2-MV8 controllers
Original Fan Wall with 3x working hotswap fans

I was hoping for $250 + shipping for it all but make me an offer I can't refuse! You can reach me at timodom AT gmail DOT com. I'm also interested in trading for an APC UPS, a black rack with doors and on castors, a couple IBM M1015 cards + cash, or 2-3 2TB Samsung or Hitachi hard drives. I'm also interested in a KVM that uses CAT5 wiring to go to the machines.
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post #869 of 1460
8/26/12 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolrunnings82 View Post

I was hoping for $250 + shipping.
Your best bet for making that much is going to be selling them individually on ebay.
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post #870 of 1460
8/26/12 at 3:25pm
Yeah that's my plan. Just figured I'd give people here first dibs due to the number of comments of people wanting various parts.
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