or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 86

post #2551 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I agree but honestly, who does better? Current AVRs try to do everything and in the end every functionality is subpar. Why not simply build a rock solid audio-only processor? No image processing, just switching, audio decoding, bass management and room correction. That's what I expect an AV processor to do. Why does every AVR need to double or triple the functionality I already have in my TV or BD player or media player, etc.? Manufacturers lost their vision what a good AV processor should do.

I disagree with this sentiment. The AVR is the hub in the stack. As the the centerpiece of the A/V system it is a natural, and more efficient, place to unify good audio and video processing. Why should I have to pay for those features multiple times (BD deck, display, OTT streamer, etc.) if I don't want to? Also, my "flagship" PDP has shamefully bad VP, and frankly so do many other displays in its class. One of the reasons (besides XT32, which was the primary) I opted for the 818 over other models was because it has solid VP HW.

The problem isn't overreach, just that a poorly implemented feature-set at the heart affects everything. Instead of seeking a return to the "good-old-days" where components knew their place, we should be 1) pressing Onkyo (and other OEMs) to make sure that their devices do the right thing and 2) that every feature is optional per input in the rare circumstance where a better piece of kit is also in the stack (e.g. Lumagen. Oppo, etc.).
post #2552 of 9511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pologeezer View Post

I will wait 2 weeks to see if there is a firmware update (its not a easy task to get the back of my system) - i wont hold my breath but i will see....
to confirm is the expected behaviour 23.976 sync and a/v staying more in sync?
thanks

I don't know that an update is going to do much for the delay/lag which is to some degree inherent in video processing. If they truly gave you a bypass option it would fix this so we will see.

The update would, at a bare minimum, stop dropping frames due to mis-match between frame-rate of the source and destination.
post #2553 of 9511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

I disagree with this sentiment. The AVR is the hub in the stack. As the the centerpiece of the A/V system it is a natural, and more efficient, place to unify good audio and video processing. Why should I have to pay for those features multiple times (BD deck, display, OTT streamer, etc.) if I don't want to? Also, my "flagship" PDP has shamefully bad VP, and frankly so do many other displays in its class. One of the reasons (besides XT32, which was the primary) I opted for the 818 over other models was because it has solid VP HW.
The problem isn't overreach, just that a poorly implemented feature-set at the heart affects everything. Instead of seeking a return to the "good-old-days" where components knew their place, we should be 1) pressing Onkyo (and other OEMs) to make sure that their devices do the right thing and 2) that every feature is optional per input in the rare circumstance where a better piece of kit is also in the stack (e.g. Lumagen. Oppo, etc.).

Well, to show you how little enthusiasts care about the video processing quality;

1. No reviewers caught this bug, it took a user with a video processor to prove it out.
2. 99% of owners, if asked, would be unaware of it.

So I guess you could say that lack of consumer interest in the quality of video processing lets companies like Onkyo get away with shoddy products.
post #2554 of 9511
Blame it on HDMI. I do. If there is another unit that that does it better please let me know because this anti-piracy crap is costing me way too much money just so I can try to enjoy legal viewing that works. I am tired of paying the price for greedy folks just so they can feel good and my viewing experience is in the toilet.
post #2555 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Well, to show you how little enthusiasts care about the video processing quality;
1. No reviewers caught this bug, it took a user with a video processor to prove it out.

I wasn't speaking to this issue with my comments, but since you tied the two together...

Frankly, I don't think many AVR reviews are that thorough. They focus primarily on the audio side of things and largely ignore video processing and usability so it's not surprising that issues in those areas would be missed. That said, there are many variables in play that make it difficult to isolate a specific component when an issue like this appears and since many devices blur the distinction b/w 24000/1001 and 24 FPS as well as that observing an issue like this can require specific (potentially unforgiving) conditions to create a consistently observable repro.

More importantly I'm not sure that it is correct to compress this topic in with VP as a singular topic. We have patterns to help isolate VP features, w/o a standardized way to test frame rate out it is hard to state with certainty that a problem exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

2. 99% of owners, if asked, would be unaware of it.

If a tree falls in the forest...

I'm not sure what the point is here. If a device performs an unwanted conversion, and you can't opt out, there is clearly a problem. Are you suggesting that they should not offer any related features?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

So I guess you could say that lack of consumer interest in the quality of video processing lets companies like Onkyo get away with shoddy products.

I certainly wouldn't say that. Are there issues with the 818? Absolutely. Is it a shoddy product on aggregate? Absolutely not.

Let's try keep some appropriate context here, we are just talking about a repeated frame every so often. That's not to say that they should have shipped it in this state, that it's not important, or that they shouldn't fix it - just that we need to avoid tossing the baby w/ the bathwater.
post #2556 of 9511
the 2nd HDMI Out is now failing on me, picture is starting to do weird things increasing in color intensity and colors come and go in blotches.


What would be a good non Onkyo receiver to replace this with?
post #2557 of 9511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

the 2nd HDMI Out is now failing on me, picture is starting to do weird things increasing in color intensity and colors come and go in blotches.


What would be a good non Onkyo receiver to replace this with?

A Denon perhaps or a Pioneer Elite. All models have issues so pick your poison.
post #2558 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

A Denon perhaps or a Pioneer Elite. All models have issues so pick your poison.


hardware issues like this 818? I am now on my third unit in less then 40 days,

Annoyances I can deal with but, this onkyo 2012 is a plague.


With Onkyo going forward is like taking steps back. I wish I did not sell my 808.
Edited by NODES - 10/2/12 at 7:54pm
post #2559 of 9511
Anyone know which denon is comparable to the 818 or 1010?
post #2560 of 9511
I am so scared of opening my 818 thinking of retunring it now
post #2561 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I am so scared of opening my 818 thinking of retunring it now

That's just nuts. Go ahead and return it and stop buying anything...much safer that way. rolleyes.gif
post #2562 of 9511
Well as i keep reading people are saying the video is messed up... I am getting my first projector the end of this year.. I dont want to have that problem.. Are these problems seen by everyone or is it just a select few
post #2563 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

The tutorial is the manual.
Settings->Source will let you set up video options for each source. The manual has good explanations of what these do.

Okay, i'll start digging in. Let you know how it goes. thank you.
post #2564 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I am so scared of opening my 818 thinking of retunring it now

Seriously just try it, what do you have to lose?
post #2565 of 9511
Well thats the thing.. My projector is a preorder which will ship end of nov early dec... So i have nothing to test it with.. All I could really do is hookup speakers... And if I let the AVR sit for like 2 months and find out I have a problem i will be screwed lol
post #2566 of 9511
You should have a 2 year warranty with the AV. I do. If mine packs up, I contact my supplier and they will deal with Onkyo. That's how I got an 818 for a 809. Open it up, give it a go, and love it. I have no issues here, just missing features.
post #2567 of 9511
all 818 come with factory 2 year?
post #2568 of 9511
If you buy an AV from a legit Onkyo supplier, yes.
post #2569 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

the 2nd HDMI Out is now failing on me, picture is starting to do weird things increasing in color intensity and colors come and go in blotches.
What would be a good non Onkyo receiver to replace this with?

Why didn't you send the 818 back for repair when HDMI 1 died? This even might be a problem with another device that fries the HDMI out of your 818. Anyhow, there's obviously something wrong that needs repair. Would you buy another car if something in your newly-bought car breaks down?
post #2570 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I am so scared of opening my 818 thinking of retunring it now

Please do it. What's the point in buying something and posting each and every day that the box is still sitting there unopened?
post #2571 of 9511
I'm getting a video lag of roughly 175ms compared to audio when watching 23.9xx fps content. if i connect the htpc directly to the tv via hdmi i get no lag. When i introduce the receiver i get video that is lagged behind. Is this related to the last several pages of posts ? I have video processing set to "through".
post #2572 of 9511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

I'm getting a video lag of roughly 175ms compared to audio when watching 23.9xx fps content. if i connect the htpc directly to the tv via hdmi i get no lag. When i introduce the receiver i get video that is lagged behind. Is this related to the last several pages of posts ? I have video processing set to "through".

It could be the AVR but it could also be the software you are using to playback the content.
post #2573 of 9511
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Well thats the thing.. My projector is a preorder which will ship end of nov early dec... So i have nothing to test it with.. All I could really do is hookup speakers... And if I let the AVR sit for like 2 months and find out I have a problem i will be screwed lol

Just use the secondary HDMI output on your projector and non of the video processing related problems apply.
post #2574 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Amen to that. I am surprised that no manufacturer offers audio-only products; however with HDMI links I guess having an HDMI switch makes sense. But I think if a manufacturer tries to do everything, they should stop doing that half-way and use a different approach. Considering the price of, say, a cheap Android tablet, in which half of it is in the touchscreen, I'll bet a processor and general-purpose OS would go a long way providing flexible media streaming capabilities with only a marginal cost increase. Then the AVR could have it all, being the perfect mix between an amp, a switch and a HTPC.

You can, but are you going to pay Meridian like prices?wink.gif
post #2575 of 9511
Does the Marvell chip only use hdmi out #1?
post #2576 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Why didn't you send the 818 back for repair when HDMI 1 died? This even might be a problem with another device that fries the HDMI out of your 818. Anyhow, there's obviously something wrong that needs repair. Would you buy another car if something in your newly-bought car breaks down?


HDMI problems has been plaguing Onkyo for years, hence why I have always upgraded before the warranty expired so I did not have a heavy door stop on my hands.

"fool me ones shame on you, fool me twice I am F'ing out of here" is my motto. I have visited the Onkyo Forums and people have been waiting for receivers to come back for months. This is not the kind of crap one should be dealing with at $1500 which is what I paid for mine.

Of course all hell breaks lose shortly after the 30 day return policy.
post #2577 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Everyone with a 818 has this problem? I didn't open mine yet might return it

Assuming you are asking about the 24/23.976 fps error, I have tried and failed to observe this phenomenon. It would bug the heck out of me too.

This does not mean it does not exist, and my inability to observe it may be complicated by the fact that the projector I'm using employs its own frame interpolation. This could hide the effect but would not eliminate it. I have no other monitors or TVs to test, just a projector.

Clearly 24 fps means 24 fps. Anything else is just plain wrong and unfaithful to the filmmaker's intent.

In any event the phenomenon might be apparent on some displays and not others.
post #2578 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

Well as i keep reading people are saying the video is messed up... I am getting my first projector the end of this year.. I dont want to have that problem.. Are these problems seen by everyone or is it just a select few


I recommend you return it and hold off on the receiver till you get the projector.
post #2579 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

HDMI problems has been plaguing Onkyo for years,

Hi NODES, for what it's worth I had HDMI ports slowly die on my last Onkyo too, until the entire HDMI board went. I replaced the HDMI board for about $70.

For what it's worth, I strongly suspect Onkyo's logic boards may be unreasonably sensitive to power surges. So now my 818 is on a UPS and so is everything plugged into it. This includes surge protection for Ethernet. We'll see if that makes a difference. I will have an answer for you right after the warranty runs out... rolleyes.gif
post #2580 of 9511
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

That said, there are many variables in play that make it difficult to isolate a specific component when an issue like this appears and since many devices blur the distinction b/w 24000/1001 and 24 FPS as well as that observing an issue like this can require specific (potentially unforgiving) conditions to create a consistently observable repro.

More importantly I'm not sure that it is correct to compress this topic in with VP as a singular topic. We have patterns to help isolate VP features, w/o a standardized way to test frame rate out it is hard to state with certainty that a problem exists.

All you need is a device that plugs in HDMI and can display incoming frame-rate. Don't know about unforgiving conditions or standardized way. It's not hard to do at all but rather tedious and time consuming. I suppose you can invent some patterns but I don't see the need when a device just tells you on the spot.

Another thing is, patterns alone aren't sufficient to test everything. The Secrets of HT is now measuring HDMI output of BDPs and found some give inaccurate outputs. No such tests have yet been done on AVRs and who knows how they fare when tested.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion