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Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 90

post #2671 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

May be with sub it is OK, it just looks (sounds) strange and really, with music, there is not much on the sub anyway so I can turn it on and off with no any difference.. Still it is surprising to me it sounds like a whisper at 75dB, even if not comparing it to other speakers. I would even call it at 85 dB as quite quiet.
But totally vanished out drums and bass guitars as a result of calibration are definitely not the way it is supposed to be. Listening this at reference level is like a torture with extremely loud PC speaker. Dynamic EQ + setting bass level to +10dB barely changes anything with Audyssey turned on. Hm... I feel I need to try John Paul Jones CD with it, shall it sound at all...


I don't know, but I've found music playback specifically sounds rather edgy, but films, for whatever reason, sound just fine. Hmm...


On another topic, I discovered more issues with the networking related to music file playback. It seems the 818 wants to play my files out of order, like, if I have an album downloaded from HD Tracks. It's mixing up the order of the songs (no, shuffle isn't turned on) even if the metadata and file names are all numbered and ordered correctly. This has happened with my HD Tracks downloads of REM -- Document, Natalie Merchant -- Tigerlily, Rod Stewart -- Every Picture Tells a Story, and some others. Never had an issue before. Hmm..
post #2672 of 9491
http://www.eiki.com/docs/onkyopro-documents/tx-nr818_owners-manual-english.pdf?sfvrsn=4

To correct the 5-7 second audio lag, I followed the instructions on pg 72 in the linked manual above, to change the default incoming digital signal to PCM, from the default of "OFF".
post #2673 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

I don't know, but I've found music playback specifically sounds rather edgy, but films, for whatever reason, sound just fine. Hmm...

BTW, after getting another mic, downloading REW, a lot of measuring and comparing different graphs... Turning Audyssey Off/Movie/Music and Dynamic EQ On/Off, once I did some change back and forth the curve changed significantly. This was a little bit surprise as the mic was standing on tripod and not moved even a bit. Looked like a correction on some part of low frequencies was made in reverse of what should be. Harsh high frequencies seems to get fixed by placing the mic not on ear level, but 20cm bellow it on the tweeter level. Then movie curve become almost like uncorrected on on frequencies higher than 800 Hz and Music curve boosts 2kHz a bit (~ +2dB) and the range above 4kHz (~ +5dB). It doesn't sound too harsh even on Music curve now once correction of a diapason bellow 600 Hz changed and now I feel switching Audussey Off makes sound worse and sounding harsh to the same amount I felt before when switching Audussey On.

So, as a summary the mic seems to be good and the problem was Audyssey, some software error due to specifics in my room acoustics probably and some bugs in Audyssey algorithm meet each other, or just some data was left from before firmware update that was not erased properly and somehow affected Audyssey calculations. The error disappeared after turning off subwoofer, recalibrating, playing with changing some Audyssey settings, then bringing back the Sub to life and recalibrating again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

On another topic, I discovered more issues with the networking related to music file playback. It seems the 818 wants to play my files out of order, like, if I have an album downloaded from HD Tracks. It's mixing up the order of the songs (no, shuffle isn't turned on) even if the metadata and file names are all numbered and ordered correctly. This has happened with my HD Tracks downloads of REM -- Document, Natalie Merchant -- Tigerlily, Rod Stewart -- Every Picture Tells a Story, and some others. Never had an issue before. Hmm..

Networking is pile of bugs in 818 frown.gif It slows down to 10'ths of second reaction, sometemes even minutes to directory browsing click, like going down to next song on displayed on the screen. It slows down every time when I go to one specific directory... I'll try to move the directory to another place, probably on USB drive also, and if problem is still there then it is good reproducible case I can report as a bug to Onkyo then. Should find some time to do this... I really have already a very loooong list of software bugs to report!!!
post #2674 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

It seems the 818 wants to play my files out of order, like, if I have an album downloaded from HD Tracks. It's mixing up the order of the songs (no, shuffle isn't turned on) even if the metadata and file names are all numbered and ordered correctly. This has happened with my HD Tracks downloads of REM -- Document, Natalie Merchant -- Tigerlily, Rod Stewart -- Every Picture Tells a Story, and some others. Never had an issue before. Hmm..

BTW, works for me. I feel like I had something similar at one point, and it was ordering songs in alphabetical order, but once I tried to reproduce it I can't. Probably I just had files with wrong or missing track number metadata or just was in a wrong listing (like Author in DLNA, where all albums are mixed and track data is really irrelevant so everything is sorted by name.
post #2675 of 9491
I've pulled the trigger on the Onkyo 818 and the new Oppo 103, replacing my old 608 and Samsung BD player.
I've followed this tread and there seems to be a lot of complains regarding USB and network playback.
That doesn't consern me since I'm using my laptop for playing music, using WiDi or coaxial cable.
And the issue with the 24p bug, if I connect the Oppo directly to the TV with HDMI (and optical to the 818) then everything should be fine, right?
I guess the Oppo is superior to the 818 in upscaling my old DVDs as well, or am I wrong?
Maybe I'm on the wrong tread now, but can you guys recomend a calbration BD?
Anybody tried to calebrate the picture via the 818?
post #2676 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRams View Post

I've pulled the trigger on the Onkyo 818 and the new Oppo 103, replacing my old 608 and Samsung BD player.
I've followed this tread and there seems to be a lot of complains regarding USB and network playback.
That doesn't consern me since I'm using my laptop for playing music, using WiDi or coaxial cable.
And the issue with the 24p bug, if I connect the Oppo directly to the TV with HDMI (and optical to the 818) then everything should be fine, right?
I guess the Oppo is superior to the 818 in upscaling my old DVDs as well, or am I wrong?
Maybe I'm on the wrong tread now, but can you guys recomend a calbration BD?
Anybody tried to calebrate the picture via the 818?

If you use the optical out you won't be able to use DTS-MA or TrueHD. Luckily for you the player you selected has dual HDMI outs so you can run one to your TV and the other to the 818 so you can use the lossless codecs.
post #2677 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

BTW, works for me. I feel like I had something similar at one point, and it was ordering songs in alphabetical order, but once I tried to reproduce it I can't. Probably I just had files with wrong or missing track number metadata or just was in a wrong listing (like Author in DLNA, where all albums are mixed and track data is really irrelevant so everything is sorted by name.

Weird, I'll have to go through them all again and fix them, but no other device caused this problem outside of the 818, so it still boggles me.

In other news, I'm going to try your previous recommendation about mic placement while running the Audyssey setup and go through it again -- for the 15th time! eek.gif
Since my front speaker tweeters are rather low in relation to ear height, especially the center channel, and the surrounds are high, especially the surround backs (which are really placed like surround back/height channels due to my room configuration) I think running with the mic at exact ear level may be confusing the Audyssey software somewhat and causing a harsh sound for music playback. It is most noticeable with Dynamic EQ on and set to Movie, but still apparent when the curve is set to Movie. I'll lower the mic a bit to bring it more in line with the front speakers and see what happens.
post #2678 of 9491
Well I'm in! Should get it within the week, found a nice deal in Canada so I went for it. I'll list my environment as I don't mind PM's or discussion here about any questions you might have in regards to how the 818 performs in it.

Upgrading from a Denon-789 (7.1 Basic Audyssey features) and will be pairing it with 9 Ascend Acoustics speakers and my 5.5cu.ft SDX-15 DIY sub. along with 4 Auro pro transducers on my couch.

Running HTPC (XBMC) / 360 / PS3 through it to an Epson 8350 on a 120" Elitescreen "powergain" I guess that's fancy for 1.8 grey. Likely buying an Epson 5020 within a few months.

I have HORRIBLE room dimensions for 9.1 DSX... Basically 18'L x 10'W x 8'H. So Audyssey has it's work cut out for it. Not to mention I have extremely limited space on the right side with a concrete wall, and the left side is open to another 14 x 10 area. and a 10' hallway behind... But I'll be in a new space within 2 years and I wanted some new toys now.

Sucks to hear about the networking/playback issues and from the sounds of it I absolutely agree it should work much better. While I use XBMC and I'll avoid that issue I can see how native playback of files handled by the receiver is desirable for some people. If you have questions in regards to XBMC i don't mind answering, it gives you considerable control over the problems your experiencing in a slick/pretty fanart interface however it can be a bit of work too configure the first time and likely not something suited for everybody. Obviously requires an audio connection to the receiver as well.

Anyhow, thanks for the posts from those who have already owned this, always helps to know what your getting into.
post #2679 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVRams View Post

I've pulled the trigger on the Onkyo 818 and the new Oppo 103, replacing my old 608 and Samsung BD player.
I've followed this tread and there seems to be a lot of complains regarding USB and network playback.
That doesn't consern me since I'm using my laptop for playing music, using WiDi or coaxial cable.
And the issue with the 24p bug, if I connect the Oppo directly to the TV with HDMI (and optical to the 818) then everything should be fine, right?
I guess the Oppo is superior to the 818 in upscaling my old DVDs as well, or am I wrong?
Maybe I'm on the wrong tread now, but can you guys recomend a calbration BD?
Anybody tried to calebrate the picture via the 818?

Check out the Oppo 103 thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread


Based on this post it looks like you can send one hdmi out from the Oppo to the tv for video only while sending the other hdmi out from the Oppo to the 818 for the audio. That way you get all the dts/dolby HD goodness that comes with hdmi connection.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432162/official-oppo-bdp-103-owners-thread/780#post_22496224
post #2680 of 9491
Can the TX-NR818 remote control search for codes for unsupported/unlisted devices?
I'm trying to set it up to control i-Link 9600HD sat receiver and Popcorn C200 media player and I couldn't find either of them in the 818 manual.
post #2681 of 9491
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stfn View Post

Can the TX-NR818 remote control search for codes for unsupported/unlisted devices?
I'm trying to set it up to control i-Link 9600HD sat receiver and Popcorn C200 media player and I couldn't find either of them in the 818 manual.

I would highly recommend avoiding the extremely crappy remote that comes in the box and buy a decent universal. You can get one for about $50-$80.
post #2682 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I would highly recommend avoiding the extremely crappy remote that comes in the box and buy a decent universal. You can get one for about $50-$80.
Gee whiz thread starter. Is there anything you like about the 818 any more? While I agree that nothing beats a purpose designed universal remote, the 818 remote is not crappy. It is no better or worse than my last Yamaha or Pioneer unit. As a matter of fact it does a better job with my TV and cable box than the other ones so let's keep it real here lest folks get the impression the 818 is a steaming pile of dung when it is not. It has some issues as do most so let's keep it on track. The remote for the 818 does an adequate job to control the unit which is what it was primarily designed for.

I am not trying to start anything with you jmpage2 but it seems you are beginning to get sour with the unit?
post #2683 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Gee whiz thread starter. Is there anything you like about the 818 any more? While I agree that nothing beats a purpose designed universal remote, the 818 remote is not crappy. It is no better or worse than my last Yamaha or Pioneer unit. As a matter of fact it does a better job with my TV and cable box than the other ones so let's keep it real here lest folks get the impression the 818 is a steaming pile of dung when it is not. It has some issues as do most so let's keep it on track. The remote for the 818 does an adequate job to control the unit which is what it was primarily designed for.
I am not trying to start anything with you jmpage2 but it seems you are beginning to get sour with the unit?

Well put.
post #2684 of 9491
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Gee whiz thread starter. Is there anything you like about the 818 any more? While I agree that nothing beats a purpose designed universal remote, the 818 remote is not crappy. It is no better or worse than my last Yamaha or Pioneer unit. As a matter of fact it does a better job with my TV and cable box than the other ones so let's keep it real here lest folks get the impression the 818 is a steaming pile of dung when it is not. It has some issues as do most so let's keep it on track. The remote for the 818 does an adequate job to control the unit which is what it was primarily designed for.
I am not trying to start anything with you jmpage2 but it seems you are beginning to get sour with the unit?

Maybe you could read why I responded. The person is not able to get the 818 to work with more esoteric devices like his Popcorn Hour. Unless the 818 is a full learning remote it is highly unlikely that he will be successful in this endeavor and the easiest solution to his problem is to buy a good universal like a Harmony remote.

For the record, I believe that ALL remotes that show up as pack-ins with these AVRs are junk, that goes for Yamaha and Pioneer just as much as for Onkyo. I have a box that is packed with about 30 TV/AVR/DVD/TiVo/Blu-ray remotes because three Harmony remotes replace all of them in three rooms and everything works.

Also, since you want to take this to a personal level, I will point out that you will find that I have posted several times that the audio performance of this unit is excellent and the feature set, at this price point are un-paralleled.

However, the fact that 24P output is busted, is a pretty big problem and yes this results in some justified griping.

If anything it is a good counter to the people that are dancing around proclaiming this unit to be filled with magical fairy dust and the greatest AVR ever made.
post #2685 of 9491
tell them why your mad jmpage2. I personally think the 818 had the potential to be the best mid-level ever made. I'm coming from the tx-nr809 and I think 818 sounds way better then the 809. but the 809 never gave me this ******** hdmi hand shaking problem. nothing changed in my setup expect the avr (818). which is extremely annoying. I've tried jdsmoothie recommendation of a fix and it stopped the complete picture/audio dropouts aka (hdmi handshaking) problem. but now I notice I'll get these split second audio only dropouts and for some reason I notice them way more frequently while watching sports games mostly football on any channel that it's broadcasted on cbs, Fox, espn etc.. witch pisses me off cuz if it is the dvr or something else causing it. it never happened with the tx-nr809. so wtf! fix that issue and the 24p bug and this avr can hold the title for best. till then it's all she wrote
post #2686 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

tell them why your mad jmpage2. I personally think the 818 had the potential to be the best mid-level ever made. I'm coming from the tx-nr809 and I think 818 sounds way better then the 809. but the 809 never gave me this ******** hdmi hand shaking problem. nothing changed in my setup expect the avr (818). which is extremely annoying. I've tried jdsmoothie recommendation of a fix and it stopped the complete picture/audio dropouts aka (hdmi handshaking) problem. but now I notice I'll get these split second audio only dropouts and for some reason I notice them way more frequently while watching sports games mostly football on any channel that it's broadcasted on cbs, Fox, espn etc.. witch pisses me off cuz if it is the dvr or something else causing it. it never happened with the tx-nr809. so wtf! fix that issue and the 24p bug and this avr can hold the title for best. till then it's all she wrote

The drops you are hearing with sports is the switching of dd to 5.1 and back during commercials.
Stricter rules on how HDMI is implemented is starting to show itself just like in the examples you describe.
Why did the 809 not do this? Onkyo was just as bad as everyone else in this loose interpretation.

HDMI is a complete mess and now it is the year of the dropouts with virtually all new HDMI AVRs. (just look at the boards here)

One work around is to feed only PCM signals to the AVR and let each individual component decode independently.
It is how HDMI SHOULD have been developed (actually DVI would have taken us all the way to 4K) but instead we as consumers INSISTED on seeing the stupid DD and DTS lights come up on our AVRs. rolleyes.gif
post #2687 of 9491
On HD channels in the UK, most Dolby Digital sources are followed by DD adverts as well, so there isn't any drops.
post #2688 of 9491
ouch that hurt, bootman_head_fi...! wink.gif you would think, I would know the difference between the amp switching from different incoming sources and audio drops.. the split second audio drops I'm talking about are during the same incoming source. not when it goes from a 2ch back to 5.1.. the only time I get what your talking about is when it changes sources if I got neo x on to the sb. then it switches to 2ch/ all channel stereo input and it's going to my fw and not sb.I'll hear it click and get that pause your taking about... smile.gif I know you didn't mean no harm. wink.gif I liked your reply... I'm guilty as charged with the wanting to see the red dd or dts instead of pcm. dd and dts had been embedded into our brains and that is what we want even if it's wrong...

regardless I hope they iron these problems out asap. cuz it's annoying for the money we effing spent! I almost wish I stuck with the tx-nr809 if I knew this was going to happen... but other then that this avr is a great buy if and when they fix it. cool.gif
post #2689 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

the split second audio drops I'm talking about are during the same incoming source.

What does the front panel show when those dropouts occur? Does it happen with a specific type of signal or source?
post #2690 of 9491
right same here, not all hd channels play their commercials in 2ch. it depends on the commercial itself and the station most of time.. like the channel spike even tho it's an hd channel every thing they broadcast is in 2h.. but when it switches source my 818 does it quick enough that me or my company don't notice any miss of sound. all thing hear is the amp clicking to add or remove speakers from the incoming source setup
post #2691 of 9491
Marco,

Not sure if this was a reply to my questions?
post #2692 of 9491
nothing.... it's not like a handshaking issue where the hdmi symbol is blinking and then see a no signal sign.. i was having that problem also but did jdsmoothie's work around of going optical for audio and hdmi for video.... I'm going to pay attention and tell you for sure what the front of the avr does..
you know what it's like it sounds, like a volume safe feature that happens during normal tv watching. like when you leave your radio on full blast and turn it off and forget about it and when you turn it back on it starts off low and gradually goes up in volume. that's exactly what it sounds like when it drops for me. but I won't have the sound up really loud that the amp is getting to HOT to act up.. or doing anything for the amp to act up..
Edited by Marco Giudice - 10/17/12 at 9:45am
post #2693 of 9491
sorry Markus, that one reply wasn't.. the one after was... thank you for your fast reply and concern of my issue willingness to figure it out.. smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifcool.gif
post #2694 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

ouch that hurt, bootman_head_fi...! wink.gif you would think, I would know the difference between the amp switching from different incoming sources and audio drops.. the split second audio drops I'm talking about are during the same incoming source. not when it goes from a 2ch back to 5.1.. the only time I get what your talking about is when it changes sources if I got neo x on to the sb. then it switches to 2ch/ all channel stereo input and it's going to my fw and not sb.I'll hear it click and get that pause your taking about... smile.gif I know you didn't mean no harm. wink.gif I liked your reply... I'm guilty as charged with the wanting to see the red dd or dts instead of pcm. dd and dts had been embedded into our brains and that is what we want even if it's wrong...
regardless I hope they iron these problems out asap. cuz it's annoying for the money we effing spent! I almost wish I stuck with the tx-nr809 if I knew this was going to happen... but other then that this avr is a great buy if and when they fix it. cool.gif


Sorry about that. smile.gif

I'm guilty about this also. we all are.

But you should try and see if a PCM stream from your STB has the same dropouts as a DD stream.
It would be a great data point for us here.
post #2695 of 9491
I am considering a 818. Can someone briefly list some of the reliability issues for Onkyo? There is 90 pages in this thread and I do not have time to parse every page for issues. Thanks
post #2696 of 9491
The only issues I've read about are failing HDMI out's. If you buy from a legit seller, you have 2 years warranty anyway. Chances are if it fails, the supplier will sort you out, if you contact them. My AV is good for now.
post #2697 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

The drops you are hearing with sports is the switching of dd to 5.1 and back during commercials.
Stricter rules on how HDMI is implemented is starting to show itself just like in the examples you describe.
Why did the 809 not do this? Onkyo was just as bad as everyone else in this loose interpretation.
HDMI is a complete mess and now it is the year of the dropouts with virtually all new HDMI AVRs. (just look at the boards here)
One work around is to feed only PCM signals to the AVR and let each individual component decode independently.
It is how HDMI SHOULD have been developed (actually DVI would have taken us all the way to 4K) but instead we as consumers INSISTED on seeing the stupid DD and DTS lights come up on our AVRs. rolleyes.gif

The whole thing about PCM vs bitstreaming started back when Blu-Ray hardware manufacturers cut corners and converted the HD codecs to regular DTS or Dolby Digital before converting to PCM. There was no reason for it. The hardware in those players was perfectly capable of doing a direct HD codec to PCM conversion without downsampling the original audio (96KHz to 48KHz for example). Not sure if any manufacturers still do that intermediate step or not but that's why it's preferred by many to see the lights light up on the receiver.
post #2698 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy378 View Post

The whole thing about PCM vs bitstreaming started back when Blu-Ray hardware manufacturers cut corners and converted the HD codecs to regular DTS or Dolby Digital before converting to PCM. There was no reason for it. The hardware in those players was perfectly capable of doing a direct HD codec to PCM conversion without downsampling the original audio (96KHz to 48KHz for example). Not sure if any manufacturers still do that intermediate step or not but that's why it's preferred by many to see the lights light up on the receiver.

HDMI 1.3 and all of that new gear we had to buy had nothing to do with it?smile.gif
post #2699 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Sorry about that. smile.gif
I'm guilty about this also. we all are.
But you should try and see if a PCM stream from your STB has the same dropouts as a DD stream.
It would be a great data point for us here.

hmmm... you know i didn't think to try that... im going to check that out when i have more time to play with it.... but i do know when i had the DVR connected to my STB, then to the receiver.. i would get crazy hdmi handshaking problems like crazy, where it would drop audio the hdmi symbol will blink and the avr will say no signal..
now i have the STB by itself connected to the STB input with nothing connected to it.. So now it is, it's only component and i didn't notice any audio problems but again i haven't really played with cuz i got my PC connected to the AVR that handles my needs better.... but i will get on that smile.gif
Edited by Marco Giudice - 10/17/12 at 6:24pm
post #2700 of 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Marco,
Not sure if this was a reply to my questions?
sorry man i need to start quoting my replies i was on my phone and trying to be quick
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